Bengals1181 Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Here’s a breakdown of Roland’s play Sunday. It includes his 75 plays, plus the snaps with penalties that didn't officially count. Bad plays are in red. Play 1: It appears play 1 is missing due to the satellite being down. [color="#FF0000"]Play 2: Blocked into Carson who doesn’t lead TO enough. Play 3: Blocked back to about 1 foot from Carson, pocket holds though. [/color] Play 4: Rush to the left, Roland whiffs on Beason but it has no effect on the play. Play 5: Effective blocking, pass goes for a 16yds and a first down. [color="#FF0000"]Play 6: Roland has a weak effort on run blocking and falls to his knees. [/color] Play 7: Good run blocking by Roland [color="#FF0000"]Play 8: Roland gets beat by his man who’s touching Carson’s shoulder by the time he throws it.[/color] Play 9: Bobbie and the TE pick up their guys, so Roland just stands there on a pass play. Play 10: Effective blocking on a screen pass to Gresham, but his man is still at Carson’s feet by the end of the throw. Play 11: Good run blocking by Roland, Ced goes for 4yds behind him. Play 12: Basically same play, Roland can’t clear his man out of the hole, but not all on him. Play 13: Good pass blocking, pass goes for 7yds and a first down. [color="#FF0000"]Play 14: Poor run blocking by Roland, 1yd gain to the right.[/color] Play 15: Benson to the left middle, Roland lets his man past and out of the play (seemed designed), Roland makes no effort to get upfield to a new block. Play 16: Good pass pro, Bobbie helps out but Roland didn’t need it. Play 17: Roland effective chops his guy, Benson runs left for TD. Play 18: Scott goes left for 12yds, Roland handles his guy with a chip by Gresham too. [color="#FF0000"]Play 19: Roland blocked back into Carson, his DE hits carson’s arm while throwing, forcing the INT. [/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 20: Run to the left, Roland blocks his man right into the hole, limiting it to a 2yd gain.[/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 21: Designed roll out to the right, Carson can’t find anyone open, poor blocking by Roland keeps Carson from having room to run, though he wouldn’t have gotten far.[/color] Play 22: Designed screen to the left. Carson gets it off, but Roland gets pushed back almost to him and is pancaked by the DE in the endzone. Play 23: Quick pass to the left to Chad, Roland drives his man 3yds down field. Play 24: Run to the left, Roland takes care of his guy. Play 25: 6yd completion to Shipley for a 1st. Decent pocket, but again Roland’s guy gets within an arm length of Carson. Play 26: Another run to the left. Roland doesn’t have to do much as the defenders on the right don’t put forth much effort. Play 27: Good pass pro by Roland, Gresham slips in his route. Play 28: 4th down run by Leonard. Roland is tackled by Bobbie, but Roland’s man made the tackle and would have whether Roland was upright or not. First down though. [color="#FF0000"]Play 29: Run up the middle, left end takes himself out of the play, Roland gets to the 2nd level and does nothing. LB’s make the tackle for a 1yd gain.[/color] Play 30: Good pass pro, Chad drops pass. [color="#FF0000"]Play 31: Carson gets pressured by Roland’s man, but is able to step up and hit Chad for 13yds and a 1st. [/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 32: Run to the right, Roland creates a nice hole then stops, his man tackles Ced for a 2yd gain. Roland ends up on the ground.[/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 33: Designed screen, Roland blocks his man into Benson, who can’t get out of the backfield. Carson throws it into the dirt. [/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 34: 3rd and 7, Carson throws a bad pass to Leonard. Roland’s man again gets a hand on Carson. Whit’s guy almost gets to him too.[/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 35: Run to the left, Roland whiffs on his guy who tracks down Ced for no gain. Play 36: Roland whiffs again, the DE misses the tackle 4yds deep, Benson escapes for 8yds.[/color] [color="#FF0000"]Play 37: Roland’s man gets a hand on Carson again, who rushes a throw to Chad. Leonard and TO were wide open if Carson has time for his progressions. TO probably scores.[/color] Play 38: Leonard runs left for a 1st on 4th. Roland doesn’t get a hand on anyone, but doesn’t need to. Play 39: Benson runs left for 10yds. Roland does well getting downfield. Play 40: Another stretch play to the left and again not much Roland needs to do. [color="#FF0000"]Play 41: Roland gets blocked back into Carson, who’s able to escape and rush for 9yds.[/color] Play 42: Roland does a good job getting to the second level and taking out Beason. [color="#FF0000"]Play 43: Roland’s man gets to Carson again as Carson is getting the throw off. Carson rushes a throw into double coverage since he has no time to wait for anyone to get open.[/color] Play 44: Good pass pro, Carson gets a 23yd completion to Shipley. [b][size="4"][color="#FF0000"]Play 45: False start by Roland, costs the team their last timeout.[/color][/size][/b] Play 46: Good pass pro, Carson can’t hook up with TO. [b][size="4"][color="#FF0000"]Play 47: Good pass pro by Roland however he goes to the ground. Gets up, stands there wondering where everyone else is, and can’t get to the line quick enough for the spike. [/color][/size][/b] Play 48: Run to the left, Roland chips one LB and moves on to another. The LB he chips runs down Benson limiting the play to a 4yd gain. Play 49: Good pass pro, 3yd completion. [color="#FF0000"]Play 50: Run to the left on 3rd and 1, Roland drives his guy left, and falls down. Bad play by him, but not the reason the play failed.[/color] Play 51: 12yd run to the left by Scott, good run blocking by Roland on the right Play 52: Roland gets beat by his man on the inside, but luckily Benson was going off tackle and gains 4yds. Play 53: Roland gets blocked back to 2 feet from Carson but Carson completes it to Shipley for 8yds and a 1st. Play 54: Fine blocking by Roland, Ced runs right for 4yds. [color="#FF0000"]Play 55: Run behind left guard, Roland gets to the 2nd level but doesn’t block either of the linebackers, one of which makes the tackle after a 6yd gain and a 1st down.[/color] Play 56: Ok blocking by Roland on a run to the right that goes for 3yds. Play 57: Good pass pro by Roland, pressure up the middle causes a high throw by Carson. [size="4"][b][color="#FF0000"]Play 58: Roland gets abused, spun around and Carson throws a pass at Chad’s feet to avoid getting sacked by his own teammate.[/color][/b][/size] Play 59: Good pass pro by Roland, Carson hits Caldwell for 8yds. Play 60: Good run blocking by Roland, Benson goes left for a 1 1/2yds. Play 61: QB sneak on 3rd and short for a 1st. Carson runs behind Roland. [color="#FF0000"]Play 62: Roland rushed back into Carson who gets hit by Roland while throwing. Play still goes for 4yds to Chad.[/color] Play 63: Good run blocking by Roland, Benson goes right for 3yds. Play 64: Quick slant to TO who’s man makes a nice play. Roland takes care of his guy. Play 65: Very good pass pro by Roland, Carson hits Chad for 10yds and a 1st. Play 66: Good run blocking by Roland, but only a 2yd gain up the middle. Play 67: Very good pass pro by Roland, Carson misses a sliding Chad. Play 68: Roland drives the LB to the middle and then stops. LB would have made the sack if Bobbie’s man hadn’t first. Play 69: Good pass pro by Roland, quick pass left to TO who runs for 12yds. Play 70: Designed roll out to the right to Gresham. Roland doesn’t come near a single defender, they were all fooled. Play 71: Good block on another designed roll out, TD Benson. Play 72: Run to the right, Roland blocks out Beason Play 73: Roland does enough to take out his guy, Scott goes for 3 around the right tackle. Play 74: Shovel pass, Roland shoves Beason and then lets him make the assisted tackle. Play 75, 76, 77: Victory formation! [color="#FF0000"][b]That's [size="6"]24 bad plays[/size] out of 77 (we'll count the 3 victory formations just for the hell of it), and that was being generous. Think Roland's not a problem?[/b][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 1181, how 'bout a Livings assessment. I bet the suck to functional ratio goes up even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1285873135' post='924729'] Here’s a breakdown of Roland’s play Sunday. It includes his 75 plays, plus the snaps with penalties that didn't officially count. Bad plays are in red. [/quote] [color="#FF0000"]I would say Mr. Roland found the game challenging.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1285874511' post='924732'] [color="#FF0000"]I would say Mr. Roland found the game challenging.[/color] [/quote] [color="#FF0000"]And its all Carson Palmer's fault. thank you[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [color="#FF0000"]I like red typeface.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBengal Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Maybe we should draft a right tackle with a very high pick to replace Roland. Preferably one with gigantic tits and a work ethic that makes Jeremi Johnson look like an overachiever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 We are getting what we are paying for. Dennis played far above his capabilities last season, and we knew we would be living on borrowed time by continuing to trot him out as a starter this season. He is about as sound technically as you can find...but he simply doesn't have the physical ability to play the position at a high level. He is what he is: a career backup at best. 'Dre simply [b]must[/b] play...now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I am not sure Roland is still at fault. He does appear to be the cause of quite a few issues. However, he appears to be holding off his defenders about the same as last year. I will not know until next year whether that is accurate or not. Last year 16 game stats on the line: Player-Sacks-Seconds to sack-sacks taken over 3 seconds QB/Play Call-----8---2.25--3 Dennis Roland----7.5-2.75--2.5 Andrew Whitworth-4.5-3.6---3.5 Bobbie Williams--3---2.2---1 Anthony Collins--3---2.3---0 Cedric Benson----2---2.55--1 Kyle Cook--------1---3.2---1 Although it was 2009, Roland still held his own for at least 2.75 seconds before the QB was sacked. Whitworth allowed 4.5 sacks but he held up for 3.6 seconds. Yea, it's unfair to compare those two 'cause the Whit is a beast. However, there were others on that line (and yes, behind the line and in the booth) that were at fault for alot less time. I really would be surprised if Roland allows less time than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I say it's a fair analysis. I'm wondering how I became champion of the "Roland is GOD" club. To this point he's kept two tackles on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1285876426' post='924741'] I say it's a fair analysis. I'm wondering how I became champion of the "Roland is GOD" club. To this point he's kept two tackles on the bench. [/quote] Which is scary.. It's the same problem we had on DL and LB a few years ago.. "The best player on the roster" at 1 or more positions was at best a back-up level talent, and the backups to these guys were of dubious NFL ability. I was fairly optimistic about the improved play of the line from last season. But that optimism hinged a good bit on having an upgrade (AS) waiting in the wings at RT. I think it's crazy to say the OL is not a problem. We do not run a system, nor have the personnel to make plays outside the pocket like other teams with questionable pass protection. While I believe that there are plays to be made for Palmer, he simply does not appear to have faith in the protection to allow him to make his reads properly and step into throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Nice breakdown......now, breakdown the play of the other 31 RT's in the league so that we can determine once and for all if Roland would start on another team as per Scharm's assertion. Then, when you're done with that.....break down every RT in NFL history so we can see where Roland stacks up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1285877286' post='924746'] Which is scary.. It's the same problem we had on DL and LB a few years ago.. "The best player on the roster" at 1 or more positions was at best a back-up level talent, and the backups to these guys were of dubious NFL ability. I was fairly optimistic about the improved play of the line from last season. But that optimism hinged a good bit on having an upgrade (AS) waiting in the wings at RT. I think it's crazy to say the OL is not a problem. We do not run a system, nor have the personnel to make plays outside the pocket like other teams with questionable pass protection. While I believe that there are plays to be made for Palmer, he simply does not appear to have faith in the protection to allow him to make his reads properly and step into throws. [/quote] The last paragraph is exactly how I feel about Carson. He's lost confidence.......not necessarily in himself, but in the OLine and the protection he will get from play to play. He tends to "freak out" as a result when he sees pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1285877286' post='924746'] Which is scary.. It's the same problem we had on DL and LB a few years ago.. "The best player on the roster" at 1 or more positions was at best a back-up level talent, and the backups to these guys were of dubious NFL ability. I was fairly optimistic about the improved play of the line from last season. But that optimism hinged a good bit on having an upgrade (AS) waiting in the wings at RT. I think it's crazy to say the OL is not a problem. We do not run a system, nor have the personnel to make plays outside the pocket like other teams with questionable pass protection. While I believe that there are plays to be made for Palmer, he simply does not appear to have faith in the protection to allow him to make his reads properly and step into throws. [/quote] Palmer makes the plays that are there. He doesn't get bashed as much. People don't run around making excuses for him overblowing the O-lines performance. That simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1285877881' post='924752'] Palmer makes the plays that are there. He doesn't get bashed as much. People don't run around making excuses for him overblowing the O-lines performance. That simple. [/quote] Yeah I know... I have read that from you probably 1016 times at this point... I will have to maintain that if the OL makes the "plays" (ie blocking) they are supposed to make, then we aren't having this discussion.. I happen to think you are crazy to think this OL is playing acceptably well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1285878054' post='924754'] Yeah I know... I have read that from you probably 1016 times at this point... I will have to maintain that if the OL makes the "plays" (ie blocking) they are supposed to make, then we aren't having this discussion.. I happen to think you are crazy to think this OL is playing acceptably well. [/quote] IMO, line is playing well enough that points that are left on the field should not be thrown on their shoulders. That's what is happening. The bashing of the O-line is simply the product of people being butt hurt that the QB and skill guys aren't getting it done. Simple. This was never supposed to be an offensive led team. Offense just needs to move upward, mid pack. Make plays. It isn't happening the last two games. They make those few plays that score TDs instead of FGs the precieved O-line problem is not as knee jerk and much more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan850 Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1285876049' post='924740'] I am not sure Roland is still at fault. He does appear to be the cause of quite a few issues. However, he appears to be holding off his defenders about the same as last year. I will not know until next year whether that is accurate or not. Last year 16 game stats on the line: Player-Sacks-Seconds to sack-sacks taken over 3 seconds QB/Play Call-----8---2.25--3 Dennis Roland----7.5-2.75--2.5 Andrew Whitworth-4.5-3.6---3.5 Bobbie Williams--3---2.2---1 Anthony Collins--3---2.3---0 Cedric Benson----2---2.55--1 Kyle Cook--------1---3.2---1 Although it was 2009, Roland still held his own for at least 2.75 seconds before the QB was sacked. Whitworth allowed 4.5 sacks but he held up for 3.6 seconds. Yea, it's unfair to compare those two 'cause the Whit is a beast. However, there were others on that line (and yes, behind the line and in the booth) that were at fault for alot less time. I really would be surprised if Roland allows less time than last year. [/quote] goddamn whit is a beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='ChicagoBengal' timestamp='1285874058' post='924731'] 1181, how 'bout a Livings assessment. I bet the suck to functional ratio goes up even further. [/quote] This. Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 By comparison, the Steelers of 2009 O-line: Player-Sacks-Seconds to sack-sacks taken over 3 seconds QB/Play Call---12--2.5--5 Max Starks-----7.5-3.7--5 Justin Hartwig-7---3----3.5 Chris Kemoeatu-5.5-3.1--2.5 Willie Colon---5---3.3--3 Rashard Mendenhall-4-2.95-1.5 Trai Essex-----3---3.3--2 Matt Spaeth----2.5-2.6--1 Heath Miller---1.5-4.1--1.5 Ramon Foster---1---2.65-0 Mewelde Moore--1---2.4--0 Player-Sacks-Seconds to sack-sacks taken over 3 seconds QB/Play Call-----8---2.25--3 Dennis Roland----7.5-2.75--2.5 Andrew Whitworth-4.5-3.6---3.5 Bobbie Williams--3---2.2---1 Anthony Collins--3---2.3---0 Cedric Benson----2---2.55--1 Kyle Cook--------1---3.2---1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 I saw Livings graded out at a 92. I tend to believe that is a 31, 30, and 31 over three games. Dude has been terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1285877455' post='924748'] Nice breakdown......now, breakdown the play of the other 31 RT's in the league so that we can determine once and for all if Roland would start on another team as per Scharm's assertion. Then, when you're done with that.....break down every RT in NFL history so we can see where Roland stacks up. [/quote] [color="#FF0000"]LOL, now thats some funny shit! I know what your up to you wise guy you [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1285876426' post='924741'] I say it's a fair analysis. I'm wondering how I became champion of the "Roland is GOD" club. [color="#FF0000"]To this point he's kept two tackles on the bench.[/color] [/quote] I have to think this has to do with Andre getting in playing shape, as when Andre was in front of him last year he was clearly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted September 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='ChicagoBengal' timestamp='1285874058' post='924731'] 1181, how 'bout a Livings assessment. I bet the suck to functional ratio goes up even further. [/quote] I'll try to do one if I have time. Just watched him on the first 17 plays (capped by the Benson TD) and he actually did pretty good. Two bad blocks, only one that made a difference. Some good pass pro actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted September 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Just watched the first half of Livings (47 of his total "77" plays), and I gotta say he's having a damn good game. And I'm not much of a Livings fan. Even more surprising, not single bad moment of pass protection. Again, I'll try to write something up later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 That's probably a fair assesment of Roland. I still don't lay all the blame at the feet of the O line. I'm curious as to how many times through out the course of the game, Palmer just threw the ball away when the play wasn't there? I don't remember one. I could be wrong though. Point is there is lots of blame to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1285883119' post='924781'] I have to think this has to do with Andre getting in playing shape, as when Andre was in front of him last year he was clearly better. [/quote] Andre's suck ass work ethic and his suck ass preseason got him to the bench. It's October and he just failed to make the active roster. Roland to this point has kept him there. Roland also sent Collins to the bench a former 4th rounder. So I'm inclined to say Roland might be a little better than the trash he is being described as. Do you think Paul and Marvin are purposely keeping two better players on the bench in favor of a guy that shouldn't be in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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