Pete Prisco ranks the Bengals O-line 25th "best"

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Spread the blame when examining bad O-line play[/b]
[/size]Expert [b]By [color="#3b5998"]Pete Prisco
[/color][/b][b]CBSSports.com Senior Writer[/b]
[size="1"]Oct. 14, 2010[/size]

Sitting in my hotel room two Sundays ago watching Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler taking a beating at the hands of the New York Giants, it hit me how bad the offensive line play has become in the NFL.

Hit after hit, one that knocked Cutler woozy, I couldn't help but think that the poor offensive line play in the NFL wasn't just a Bears problem, but rather a league-wide issue.


Can anybody block anymore?

Former NFL coach John Madden is part of a promotion that gives out a weekly award to the best offensive line of the week.

Picking just one a week is probably hard to do.

"There are a lot of lines out there that are struggling," one AFC general manager said. "The quarterbacks better hope it improves. They're getting killed."

It's not so much that the sack numbers are up. But the hits on the quarterbacks are. In 2009, there were two teams -- Jacksonville and Buffalo -- who had their quarterbacks hit more than 100 times. In 2010, there are five teams on pace to do so.

"It's not just the sacks, but the hits are adding up," Falcons coach Mike Smith said. "The hits and hurries take their toll."

After seeing poor line play for the first five weeks, I thought it was a good time to find out why it's taking place.

In speaking with a handful of coaches, general managers, players and former players, there were several reasons given. Here's a breakdown of some of the reasons:

[b]College spread offenses are killing line play[/b]

Former Jacksonville Jaguars tackle Tony Boselli is the best offensive lineman I've seen with my own two eyes. So I sought out his opinion as to why line play isn't as good this season as it was maybe five or 10 years ago.

"It's the spread they use in college," Boselli said. "It doesn't allow them to be taught the techniques you need to have in the pro game. I talk to linemen now who didn't know how to get in a three-point stance when they came out of college. They never had to do it. In the old days, when college teams ran the triple-option, the linemen had a hard time adjusting to the pro game. That's what we're seeing now with the spread."

Colleges that use the spread, an offense that is being seen more and more on that level, don't ask offensive linemen to get in that three-point stance, which means the run-blocking is much different than on the pro level and it's tough to learn how to pass block out of a two-point stance.

"It's even that way in high school now," Boselli said. "So where are they learning the pro techniques?"

When they get to the league, and that takes time. That's why you see some young linemen struggling when they get to the NFL.

[b]Speed of the defenses[/b]

It's all about speed on defense now. The faster your defensive players, the better your defense will be.

The NFL has moved away from bigger, stronger defenses and instead the trend is to move to the athletic players who can run.

The big safety is now a linebacker. The big corner is now a safety. The big linebacker is now a down end. The big end is now a tackle.

"Those guys on defense can all run," New York Giants coach Tom Coughlin said. "That makes it tough to hit them. They're fast. They move. They're athletic. It's not like you're just lining up and hitting the big guy in front of you anymore."

That speed makes it easier to get to the quarterback on passing downs. That's why you see smaller defensive ends like the Colts have in Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.

"It takes time adjusting to all the speed coming at the quarterback," Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff said. "And they're coming from all over. It's cornerbacks and safeties. Those are hard guys to block when they're on the move."

That brings us to the third reason.

[b]Many more looks from defenses up front[/b]

Defensive coordinators are much more creative now. They come with all kinds of exotic blitzes.

Identification is a must.

That takes a smart center and a line that understands the line calls. There have been three rookie centers starting in the NFL this season, and two still are. That can make it tough in terms of communication.

When you have a team like the New York Jets under Rex Ryan that has so many different looks up front, that can challenge even a veteran center.

"There are so many blitzes now," Coughlin said. "You have to do more preparation. They come from all angles, all spots, all positions."

"It would be tough for us to play with a rookie center in front of [quarterback] Matt [Ryan]," Dimitroff said.

The center on the Falcons line is veteran Todd McClure. He isn't the biggest or most physical center, but he excels at making line calls, which is more essential in the NFL these days than ever before.

[b]Run blitzes on first down[/b]

It used to be teams blitzed on passing downs and in the red zone. Now they blitz more on run downs, which makes it tougher on offenses -- and especially offensive linemen.

"Now coordinators blitz a lot on first down with their linebackers and people think the linebackers have great instincts but they were blitzed into the play," one AFC general manager said. "Even the use of line stunts vs. the run is up. Next to the quarterback position, the offensive line position must be taught the most [footwork and technique] due to the multiple fronts/stunts/blitzes and defensive looks in general."

That makes for a learning process. But with a dearth of good offensive linemen, it doesn't allow for the learning curve. Rookies often play right away. That leads to mistakes while learning.

"There is a lot more run blitzing on first down," Smith said. "Teams want to put you in a second-and-long situation, trying to put it to their advantage. That's why you see run blitzing up on first down. It can make it tough on a line."

[b]Continuity[/b]

Playing on the offensive line takes precision. You need five guys working together.

That's hard to get with injuries.

Of the 32 teams in the league, only 13 have started the same offensive linemen in all of their games this season. One of those teams is Tampa Bay, and that streak will likely end Sunday when center Jeff Faine (calf) is expected to miss the team's game with New Orleans.

The Panthers started the same five players in all their games, but they have been without projected starting tackle Jeff Otah all season because of injury.

"More than any other position, it is the position that you need cohesion," Dimitroff said. "You want five guys who can work together. You're better off having five good players who can work together rather than some stars who don't work well together."

[b]The move of the umpire to the backfield[/b]

Holding penalties are up because of the move of the umpire from beyond the line of scrimmage to behind it.

That move makes the umpire focus more on holding in the middle of the line, and it frees the referee and other officials to focus on the tackles.

That has forced offensive linemen to be more sound in their techniques since holding is getting called more. Not all players are that sound, which can mean more missed blocks and more hits on the quarterback.

As if those guys up front needed anything else to impact their game.

"It's seems to get tougher every year for those guys," Coughlin said.

In turn, it makes it even more dangerous to be an NFL quarterback.



Ranking NFL's Offensive Lines No.Team
1.New York Jets
2.Baltimore Ravens
3.Tennessee Titans
4.New Orleans Saints
5.Atlanta Falcons
6.Miami Dolphins
7.New York Giants
8.Green Bay Packers
9.San Diego Chargers
10.Tampa Bay Buccaneers
11.Denver Broncos
12.Minnesota Vikings
13.Pittsburgh Steelers
14.Kansas City Chiefs
15.New England Patriots
16.Jacksonville Jaguars
17.Cleveland Browns
18.Carolina Panthers
19.Houston Texans
20.Washington Redskins
21.Indianapolis Colts
22.Dallas Cowboys
23.Philadelphia Eagles
24.San Francisco 49ers
25.Cincinnati Bengals
26.St. Louis Rams
27.Arizona Cardinals
28.Detroit Lions
29.Seattle Seahawks
30.Chicago Bears
31.Oakland Raiders
32.Buffalo Bills


[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14129204/spread-the-blame-when-examining-bad-oline-play"]http://www.cbssports...-bad-oline-play[/url]

[TheBeaverHunter]

At least we don't have the 26-32 ranked O-line. We have that going for us.

Don't listen to what people says Mike and Marvin.

[img]http://cdn.babble.com/strollerderby/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/stuart-smalley-posters2-247x300.jpg[/img]

[oftt4]

He also ranks the steelers OL as better than 19 other teams. Take this with a big grain of salt. Prisco is an idiot.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' timestamp='1287149304' post='931044']
He also ranks the steelers OL as better than 19 other teams. Take this with a big grain of salt. Prisco is an idiot.
[/quote]


And in this case he isnt wrong, our o-line is that bad.

[scharm]

O-line belongs above 15.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1287149632' post='931048']
O-line belongs above 15.
[/quote]


You're insane.

[The Scales]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1287149357' post='931046']
And in this case he isnt wrong, our o-line is that bad.
[/quote]


What factors are you using to make your determination?


I'm with Scharm. It's middle of the Road - perhaps slightly less.

I wonder how Priscoe came up with his #'s.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

What's sad is that if we didn't have a veteran QB like Carson with good pocket awareness our line would be ranked even worse.

[JC]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1287149632' post='931048']
O-line belongs above 15.
[/quote]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL

We belong about 7 spots down.

[-GoBengals-]

pretty generous...

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' timestamp='1287153399' post='931058']
What's sad is that if we didn't have a veteran QB like[b] [size="5"]Carson with good pocket awareness[/size][/b] our line would be ranked even worse.
[/quote]

Please tell me you forgot the ninja.

[The Scales]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' timestamp='1287153399' post='931058']
What's sad is that if we didn't have a veteran QB like Carson with good pocket awareness our line would be ranked even worse.
[/quote]







Whats sad is that if we had another quarterback our line would be ranked much higher.

[mongo]

For weeks, every article written that mentions the Bengals' struggles focus on what is wrong with Carson (arm, knee, decision making, confidence, facial hair, etc...). It will be interesting to see if/how that changes as a result of someone sticking it out there that the line is porous.

I think the truth with Carson and the offense is everything. I think his arm is probably 90-95% of what it was pre-2008. I think suffering two potentially career ending injuries has altered his ability to forget about the dangers of his job. I think the disintegration of the 2005 line in the following years has drastically reduced his time to throw, increased his hits, and made it very difficult to stand in there with confidence. I think Chad's transition from wanting to be the greatest receiver ever to being an entertainer has hurt Carson's ability to throw to Chad with confidence. I also think Carson isn't an improvisational QB. He needs time to throw, receivers to be where they're supposed to be, and confidence he's not about to get crushed from the blind side. If that isn't happening, he doesn't have the skillset to adjust on the fly. It's no knock on him. Most people can't do that kind of adjustment at full speed.



We need Whitworth to step up Willie Anderson style, call a private meeting with the line, and get them all to sacrifice everything to protect Carson. We also need Carson to put in extra reps with his receivers, and we need Chad to realize that the magic of old Chad wasn't being brash, it was about a relentless commitment to being better than Jerry Rice (he was never going to reach that goal, but he was extraordinary when he tried).

[kdubdub]

You need smarts on the line. We haven't been the same since we lost Rich B.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' timestamp='1287153399' post='931058']
What's sad is that if we didn't have a veteran QB like Carson with good pocket awareness our line would be ranked even worse.
[/quote]


HAHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Carson with good pocket awareness...............good one! Hahahaha

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='mongo' timestamp='1287157558' post='931086']
For weeks, every article written that mentions the Bengals' struggles focus on what is wrong with Carson (arm, knee, decision making, confidence, facial hair, etc...). It will be interesting to see if/how that changes as a result of someone sticking it out there that the line is porous.

[b]I think the truth with Carson and the offense is everything. I think his arm is probably 90-95% of what it was pre-2008. I think suffering two potentially career ending injuries has altered his ability to forget about the dangers of his job. I think the disintegration of the 2005 line in the following years has drastically reduced his time to throw, increased his hits, and made it very difficult to stand in there with confidence. I think Chad's transition from wanting to be the greatest receiver ever to being an entertainer has hurt Carson's ability to throw to Chad with confidence. I also think Carson isn't an improvisational QB. He needs time to throw, receivers to be where they're supposed to be, and confidence he's not about to get crushed from the blind side. If that isn't happening, he doesn't have the skillset to adjust on the fly. It's no knock on him. Most people can't do that kind of adjustment at full speed.
[/b]


We need Whitworth to step up Willie Anderson style, call a private meeting with the line, and get them all to sacrifice everything to protect Carson. We also need Carson to put in extra reps with his receivers, and we need Chad to realize that the magic of old Chad wasn't being brash, it was about a relentless commitment to being better than Jerry Rice (he was never going to reach that goal, but he was extraordinary when he tried).
[/quote]

I agree 100%

[Fela Kuti]

We have two good linemen, Whit and Bobbie that's it

[TheBeaverHunter]

Whit is better at guard. Our whole line needs to be revamped.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Fela Kuti' timestamp='1287158911' post='931101']
We have two good linemen, Whit and Bobbie that's it
[/quote]


Bobbie's been struggling the last year plus though.

[scharm]

Palmer gets sacked once every 27 drop backs. Where's that rank amongst the NFL?


20 out of 32 lines have given up 20+ hits. 6 of 32 have given up 30+ hits. 26 out of 32?????????

For those that believe the ranking where's the justification? Rushing attack has been off the mark so far, but I'm going to say that's going to be cataylst for the resurge after the bye week.

[scharm]

Before we go down this path of Carson chucking and ducking:

6.6 avrg puts them in squarely in the middle of the league. 14 passing plays 20+ yards puts them in the top half. 4 plays of 40+ puts them top 5.

[Jason]

[quote][b]Can anybody block anymore[/b]?

Former NFL coach John Madden is part of a promotion that gives out a weekly award to the best offensive line of the week.

Picking just one a week is probably hard to do.

[b]"There are a lot of lines out there that are struggling,"[/b] one AFC general manager said. "[b]The quarterbacks better hope it improves. They're getting killed.[/b]" [/quote]

Wow, that makes our d-line look even worse.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1287163241' post='931126']
Palmer gets sacked once every 27 drop backs. Where's that rank amongst the NFL?


20 out of 32 lines have given up 20+ hits. 6 of 32 have given up 30+ hits. 26 out of 32?????????

For those that believe the ranking where's the justification? Rushing attack has been off the mark so far, but I'm going to say that's going to be cataylst for the resurge after the bye week.
[/quote]

I believe this to be true. It was apparent to me on Sunday even that they were calling the "extra lineman" formations more than I have seen in prior weeks.

[JC]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1287163688' post='931130']
Before we go down this path of Carson chucking and ducking:

6.6 avrg puts them in squarely in the middle of the league. 14 passing plays 20+ yards puts them in the top half. 4 plays of 40+ puts them top 5.
[/quote]
Stats are so useless.

So 2 good plays a game makes this a good line? LOL. The only thing it shows is that when given time..Carson actually does throw the ball well.

[scharm]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1287170445' post='931143']
Stats are so useless.

So 2 good plays a game makes this a good line? LOL. The only thing it shows is that when given time..Carson actually does throw the ball well.
[/quote]

It certainly doesn't support them being 25th. It's hilarious stats don't support your opinion so they all of sudden are useless.

Go check out the "why are we losing games thread?". A whole lot of talk about Redzone.

They've lost 2 games by a grand total of 6 points. It is not unrealistic to think they have just a marginal improvement in the RedZone this team is 4-1.

What makes them a better line than what people want to admit is: They allow the coaches to drop back their QB (top 10) and afford him the time to throw (top 10) and that produces results in yards (top 10). Stats support all of that. Watching the games support all of that.

They don't score the TDs due to dumb penalties, dumb play calls, and questionable throws and mistakes by the skill guys. That is the reason for being 2-3 instead of 4-1.