Phish Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote] [b] Call to The Show[/b] By GEOFF HOBSON Posted 3 hours ago The nearest thing to baseball’s Triple A in the NFL is where the promising young Bengals defensive backs have lived the past few seasons. On the practice squad. During pregame. In all phases of special teams. Well, the call to the big leagues comes this spring for the trio of Bengals safeties, as well as cornerback [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/brandon-ghee/d80d60e7-64a7-4899-83c1-584fb95fae5d/"]Brandon Ghee[/url]. They form an athletically gifted quartet of players secondary coach Kevin Coyle says has the potential to supply big-time contributions as soon as 2012. He says leading special teams tackler Jeromy Miles, 2010 second-rounder [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/taylor-mays/2f7a9a69-e958-4e77-9c03-7ae54ecf06af/"]Taylor Mays[/url], and 2011 fifth-rounder [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/robert-sands/ec3adc14-1481-42c6-8037-664e018eaa70/"]Robert Sands[/url] come into the workouts challenging to start at safety. It won’t stop the Bengals from coveting a cornerback at No. 17 or No. 21 in the first round of the draft. But instead of grabbing a safety in the second or third round (how about a running back or a guard?) they may already have some high-impact ones down on the farm. Their scouting combine for safety may not be next month in Indianapolis but May at Paul Brown Stadium. The only trip the Bengals may have to make to see a safety Pro Day may be to drive the length of Mehring Way. Now if there’s one they can’t absolutely pass up in rounds two or three, sure. But… “I think we’ll have the most intense competition at the safety spot that we’ve probably had,” Coyle said Wednesday. “Along with the guys we hopefully bring back, this group will have the most competition that we’ve ever had in terms of players being on the cusp of challenging to be starting players. These guys are at the point now where they legitimately have the opportunity to go out there and prove themselves.” The Bengals would no doubt like to re-sign one of their starting safeties headed to free agency, [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/reggie-nelson/ac1267ca-ed4d-4887-ac69-09636c1f60ee/"]Reggie Nelson[/url], but they are encouraged by what they’ve seen from the kids. The 6-2, 210-pound Miles had 15 tackles on special teams as part of the NFL’s No. 1 kick coverage. The 6-3, 230-pound Mays also had an impact on special teams as well as flashing in limited snaps from scrimmage late in the year before a hamstring injury took him out of the last two games. The 6-4, 209-pound Sands played in just one game, but he treated it like he played in all 16. Even though he dressed out only once, Sands went out to every pregame and “for 30 minutes caught the ball as hard as anyone I’ve ever been around and he can catch it. He’s got phenomenal hands,” Coyle said. Coyle loves the work ethic of all three. Sands is usually one of the first guys on the practice field. Miles is conscientious and reliable enough to be one of the team's most dependable players. Mays, a gym rat, showed up during the bye week to work with Coyle on formation recognition with chairs aligned in the gym. “I think I’m a lot better player than I was last year,” said Mays, traded from the 49ers late this past preseason. “I need to be consistent with my technique. That’s the stuff in the offseason I can think about and work on. (Defensive coordinator Mike) Zimmer and Coach Coyle have been tough on me playing with my technique. (Before) I just found the ball and ran to it. They’ve been harping on me about it. “To have the physical talent, it doesn’t really mean anything if you don’t apply it to football. Technique is the best way to apply it.” And he’s got plenty of tools. Coyle remembers interviewing Mays at the 2010 scouting combine and Mays telling the Bengals that he would be the fastest DB there. “You mean fastest safety, right?” they asked him and Mays shook his head and said, “Fastest DB.” “And he was right. He runs like a deer,” Coyle said. “Robert is 6-4 plus. Taylor is 6-3 plus. Jeromy is 6-2. These are big guys who can all run. Once they have it down mentally, they’re going to play at a very fast, high speed, high level. Absolutely (they can have a big impact). “They’ve got to be very technique sound and conscious because it’s not easy for a big man to change direction in space. They’ve got to be conscious of playing low, bending their knees, and being able to anticipate the game to make plays. I think they’re capable. I’ve seen them do it numerous times on the practice field.” Getting the call to the bigs doesn’t happen at training camp. It happens in May on the field during the voluntary workouts. So it wouldn’t be all that surprising if the safeties got some first-team reps. And probably Ghee, too, with [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/leon-hall/0f379744-8ae4-4952-8f53-75c2f38f43ec/"]Leon Hall[/url] (Achilles) not expected back until late July, [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/adam-jones/70893f56-2c88-4a74-93ec-15f2886cca42/"]Adam Jones[/url] and [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/kelly-jennings/1801d27f-cbb8-42ba-ac00-d722e465ec46/"]Kelly Jennings[/url] potential free agents, and 32-year-old [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/nate-clements/bbbf8d1c-75d6-4c45-ab56-60768094134e/"]Nate Clements[/url] earning the right not to pound it in the spring. It may not have been the dog house, but Ghee has come back in from the cold. The Bengals picked him in the third round in 2010 because of his physical gifts and not because of his college tape so much. Indeed, if they get a first-round corner this trip he’ll be hard-pressed to have more tools than 6-0, 193-pound Ghee. But a hit to the head curtailed Ghee's rookie preseason and a hamstring problem ended his regular season after he appeared in only six games. Then this past preseason he was bit in the hamstring again all the while not particularly impressing the coaches when he was healthy. He was not only cut after the preseason but he cleared waivers (which had to tell him something since he was a young third-round corner), so the Bengals put him on the practice squad. At that point Ghee began to impress and the coaches felt confident enough to promote him Nov. 14, the day after Hall ripped his Achilles and he kept impressing in practice. Ghee played hardly at all from scrimmage and saw special teams action in the last eight games. “I had my concerns early on,” Coyle said. “I still think he has a lot to prove to everybody, but I was favorably impressed by his demeanor, his practice habits, and how his competitiveness increased through the season. He’s got a lot of skill, size, speed and recoverability. It’s taken him awhile to figure it out and I think he’s really starting to figure it out.” At cornerback, it’s as much about mindset, competitiveness and psychological strength as much as the weight room and stopwatch, and Coyle can see the intangibles sprouting in Ghee. The way he has worked against lightening-quick waterbug wide receiver [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/roster/andrew-hawkins/e347e2a3-3711-437e-84f8-51d98e454b54/"]Andrew Hawkins[/url] in the slot is one of the things that has changed Coyle’s thinking and now he thinks Ghee can play the slot as well as the outside spots. “It really helped him going against some really good guys in practice like A.J. (Green) and Jerome (Simpson),” Coyle said. “I think he can play inside and outside. We’ll find out in a hurry. They’re just not battling for playing time, but they’re battling to be starting players.” The call to Triple A is coming. Now the only question is if they show up in The Show.[/quote] [url="http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Call-to-The-Show/51466e16-4eba-403c-80a8-acc4157f2042"]http://www.bengals.c...a8-acc4157f2042[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I am really excited about robert sands and taylor mays. I think those guys have big potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundstreamer Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Liked Sands coming out of WVU but not certain if he can play in the NFL. I just havent seen enough of him to get a good evaluation. Mays I think will be nothing more than a special teams beast because of his speed. From what I seen him play with the Bengals he doesnt seem to have "it" to be a good safety. Hope they both prove me wrong as they need upgrades at both safety positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Marvin has always wanted 2 coverage safeties. Sands and Mays don't fit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBengal Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' timestamp='1326344124' post='1088859'] I am really excited about robert sands and taylor mays. I think those guys have big potential. [/quote] Really? Miles is the guy I like. I have said from the day the Bengal got him that he is their future starting safety. Think he has way more of potential than Mays or Sands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarkster Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 We definitely need Nelson back. I hope Coyle really is as high on all three as he says he is and it's not coachspeak. If he really is that high on Mays, Sands and Miles and we resign Nelson, we could sign a decent vet for a year or two and save a premium draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgbrown66 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 another fluff piece. our safeties were horrible and none of these guys could beat them out. so really, how good could they be? these are all easily replaceable special teamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Reggie Nelson's season stats were on par with (if not better better than) Ryan Clark's, Ed Reed's, or any of the FS's elected to the Pro Bowl.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1326361803' post='1088873'] Reggie Nelson's season stats were on par with (if not better better than) Ryan Clark's, Ed Reed's, or any of the FS's elected to the Pro Bowl.. [/quote] Reggie Nelson couldn't hold Ed Reed's jock. Sorry to be so blatant but it's not always about the stats. Ed Reed brings a presence to the Ravens secondary that can only be equaled by maybe Polamalu. It's amazing that this guy almost retired 2 years ago. The AFC North would be a lot safer place for QB's if he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='mgbrown66' timestamp='1326354618' post='1088869']another fluff piece. our safeties were horrible and none of these guys could beat them out. so really, how good could they be? these are all easily replaceable special teamers.[/quote] I'm not ready to concede that. Coyle is OCD on technique. Until it's perfect, they don't see the field. All three made it through college without learning proper technique. Sands and Mays are brand new to Coyle, and need time to break bad habits. Miles went fom seeing 6 games of action in 2010 to 16 this season. He's moving up the ladder. These guys were known to be projects when we got them. Let it play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 There I go bringing up facts again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 There's a thread about it in the draft forum, but the coming spring for guys like Boling, Mays, Sands, Moch, Ghee, Hudson, Miles, Cochart and Whalen will have a DRAMATIC impact on what the team does in the draft, and their immediate future. Their development can take this team to a next level, or it can set them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' timestamp='1326344124' post='1088859'] I am really excited about robert sands and taylor mays. I think those guys have big potential. [/quote] With all due respect and not trying to start a flame war... Not to be a downer but a realist... I am f'n sick of the Bengals trying to build a team with guys with "potential". I want proven over potential. None of the guys mentioned made consistent impact on the field other than special teams and they have been around long enough for the grooming to be over. Too many waiver wire warriors or those at the end of the career rope who have been around awhile and are on the downside (Crocker a good example). Target proven quality in the draft and go after it. Acknowledge downsides (ie Maualuga has always over run plays, Carson not a leader) and if it can't be compensated for somehow (ie Maualuga's other two linebacker teammates at USC was a quality package), think about looking elsewhere. Taylor Mays is a former second round pick and cast off of another team. Not producing consistently here except special teams. Time to give him some serious thought. Didn't we have a former first round wide receiver (Jones?) who could not make it out of preseason? He had potential, too. Draft and build with proven quality. And to be fair to Marvin, we have been drafting "potential" forever here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1326372974' post='1088883'] With all due respect and not trying to start a flame war... Not to be a downer but a realist... I am f'n sick of the Bengals trying to build a team with guys with "potential". I want proven over potential. None of the guys mentioned made consistent impact on the field other than special teams and [size=4][b]they have been around long enough for the grooming to be over.[/b][/size] Too many waiver wire warriors or those at the end of the career rope who have been around awhile and are on the downside (Crocker a good example). Target proven quality in the draft and go after it. Acknowledge downsides (ie Maualuga has always over run plays, Carson not a leader) and if it can't be compensated for somehow (ie Maualuga's other two linebacker teammates at USC was a quality package), think about looking elsewhere. Taylor Mays is a former second round pick and cast off of another team. Not producing consistently here except special teams. Time to give him some serious thought. Didn't we have a former first round wide receiver (Jones?) who could not make it out of preseason? He had potential, too. Draft and build with proven quality. And to be fair to Marvin, we have been drafting "potential" forever here. [/quote] The two of the main guys talked about have been here 4 months (Mays) and 8 months (Sands). One hasn't even been here for a training camp (unless you count 1 week). Neither have been here for spring sessions, where a great deal of the learning goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1326373574' post='1088886'] The two of the main guys talked about have been here 4 months (Mays) and 8 months (Sands). One hasn't even been here for a training camp (unless you count 1 week). Neither have been here for spring sessions, where a great deal of the learning goes on. [/quote] Potential vs Impact... Results vs Excuses and Rationalization Like the Bengals late in the season - hoping something will happen rather than making it happen. I simply think "potential" is another four letter word. btw... how long were Andy Dalton and AJ Green here before they started making major impact for the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1326374811' post='1088887'] Potential vs Impact... Results vs Excuses and Rationalization Like the Bengals late in the season - hoping something will happen rather than making it happen. I simply think "potential" is another four letter word. [/quote] Every team has holes, and every team tries to fill those holes with potential guys they hope pan out. That's the NFL in a salary cap era. Draft smart, develop talent, make a key free agency acquisition here and there. Since we started leaving the jackasses off the draft board, we're doing pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1326374811' post='1088887'] Potential vs Impact... Results vs Excuses and Rationalization Like the Bengals late in the season - hoping something will happen rather than making it happen. I simply think "potential" is another four letter word. btw... how long were Andy Dalton and AJ Green here before they started making major impact for the team? [/quote] there's a reason Dalton and Green were taken high in the draft, and Sands was a 5th round pick. As for Mays, Dalton and Green have been here twice as long as him. Are we seriously having a discussion about why a 5th round pick didn't make a major impact during his rookie year? Not even to mention the fact of a lockout that wiped out rookie minicamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1326375318' post='1088892'] there's a reason Dalton and Green were taken high in the draft, and Sands was a 5th round pick. As for Mays, Dalton and Green have been here twice as long as him. Are we seriously having a discussion about why a 5th round pick didn't make a major impact during his rookie year? Not even to mention the fact of a lockout that wiped out rookie minicamps? [/quote] It seems we are discussing lower round draft picks or cast offs, often high draft choices (ie wr Jones) with "potential". Ced's potential was not realized elsewhere for other reasons. I simply am not thrilled with the prospect of putting a lot of faith in potential that does not show some blip on the screen sooner. (injury early does not count) We are still waiting for Jason Shirley and Chase Coffman to reach their potential. We had the potential to win the Texass game if we had had a turn over or two go our way (like the one we may have gotten and Marvin did not challenge early). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1326376064' post='1088898'] It seems we are discussing lower round draft picks or cast offs, often high draft choices (ie wr Jones) with "potential". Ced's potential was not realized elsewhere for other reasons. I simply am not thrilled with the prospect of putting a lot of faith in potential that does not show some blip on the screen sooner. (injury early does not count) We are still waiting for Jason Shirley and Chase Coffman to reach their potential. We had the potential to win the Texass game if we had had a turn over or two go our way (like the one we may have gotten and Marvin did not challenge early). [/quote] now I'll agree that I don't want them to simply depend on these guys and not have a backup plan, but this is what good teams DO. They draft guys, and they develop them. Not every player is plug and play. In fact, most aren't. Sadly, Jason Shirley is reaching his potential, but for the Panthers. He had 2.5 sacks in 4 games for them. Not to take the thread another direction, but that's the second time you've mentioned the challenge. IMO it wasn't a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [b] [size=6]Secondary may be Bengals' first priority[/size][/b] [b] [size=6]Injuries, lack of depth hurt after midseason[/size][/b] For the second time in three seasons, the Bengals finished in the top 10 in the league against the pass. Judging by the performance and the lack of depth over the final nine games, it didn’t feel like it. With plenty of new pieces at the beginning of the season and the injury to cornerback Leon Hall during Week 10, Bengals defensive backs had a target on their backs. Statistically, teams attempted fewer passes against the Bengals during the second half compared to the first, but there were five more touchdowns and the completion percentage was nearly 61 percent. They also gave up more big plays after midseason compared to the first half. With five unrestricted free agents, there will be plenty of changes in the group again by the time offseason conditioning begins in mid-April. Who will be back and what areas the team will try to improve is part of the evaluation process that began with the Bengals’ 31-10 loss to Houston last Saturday in an AFC wild-card game. “In general as a defense and secondary, we were similar in the sense there were things we did well and areas we can do better,” secondary coach Kevin Coyle said. “I wish we played better down the stretch. There were a lot of new faces, especially after Leon went down. There were some guys that joined us at the end of camp who continued to develop.” The biggest questions revolve around depth at cornerback and who might be the starting safeties. Because of the number of young safeties who played special teams, the Bengals went almost the entire season with just four cornerbacks. Once Hall was injured, it was mainly just three with Nate Clements, Adam Jones and Kelly Jennings. Brandon Ghee filled Hall’s roster spot but was in for only two plays and spent most of his time on special teams. The Bengals are optimistic that Hall can be back for the start of training camp, but Jones and Jennings, who was acquired in a preseason trade with Seattle, are free agents. Of the two, Jones was the better corner in pass coverage. Pro Football Focus had Jones, who did not play his first defensive snap until the Week 11 game at Baltimore, was targeted 34 times and allowed only 17 receptions. Jennings was targeted 51 times and allowed 31 receptions. Nate Clements, who was acquired when Johnathan Joseph signed with Houston, struggled down the stretch. In the last four games, including the playoffs, he was targeted 23 times and gave up 14 completions. “We gave up less long runs but gave up some explosive plays,” Coyle said. “We’ve got to create more turnovers. It was not a good year from the standpoint of interceptions (10, their fewest since they had nine in 2002).” At safety, Reggie Nelson is figured to be one of the top three free agents that the team would like to re-sign before March. Nelson, who was acquired in a trade from Jacksonville in 2010, started to live up to being a first-round pick as he led the team in interceptions with four. He had a couple major breakdowns in coverage early in the season but got more consistent as the year went along. Chris Crocker, who struggled in the playoff loss to the Texans, has one year left on his conract but will be entering his 10th season. Said Crocker about the play of the safeties: “We had great plays together, we had bad plays together, but we’re still two guys who like to be very active and have played well in this scheme. This secondary collectively can be better, because we’ll get Leon (Hall) back and hopefully we’ll be able to play together with the same guys.” Behind the starters, there is plenty of youth that Coyle and the rest of the defensive staff should be able to assess better during the offseason. Hopes are still there that Ghee can continue to improve like he did this year in practice and safeties Robert Sands and Jeromy Miles can get more playing time. The one that everyone wants to know about though is Taylor Mays, who was acquired in a preseason trade from San Francisco. The second-year player, who was drafted in the second round by the Niners in 2010, saw limited action in the seven games where he saw defensive snaps, but showed potential on special teams and on defense in the first Houston game where he matched up well on tight end Owen Daniels. Mays though was plagued by knee and hamstring injuries for some of the year. Said Coyle of Mays: “He has some unique physical qualities which puts him in a rare category. The one aspect of playing the position though is to become an effective safety it doesn't require size and speed. There's a football intellect and savvy that the great players have have. All these guys have the physical skills that once it comes together they'll be effective.” (Click the link for the entire article) http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20120111/SPT02/301110163/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why be so down on these guys? Whether or not they become starters or impact players, at the very least they should turn out to be quality depth which this and every team depends on. You have to root for that. Considering how little we have invested in these guys at this point, it's all upside from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1326378718' post='1088912']Why be so down on these guys? Whether or not they become starters or impact players, at the very least they should turn out to be quality depth which this and every team depends on. You have to root for that. Considering how little we have invested in these guys at this point, it's all upside from here.[/quote] OB, some of our fellow posters have negative in their veins. If they hit the lottery for a million bucks, they'd bitch because they had to pay taxes. If you don't start your first year on the team, you aren't shit, you aren't going to be shit, and if a coach says he thinks you may be ready to play more and contribute more he's just lying. I just laugh at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBengal Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='High School Harry' timestamp='1326372974' post='1088883'] With all due respect and not trying to start a flame war... Not to be a downer but a realist... I am f'n sick of the Bengals trying to build a team with guys with "potential". I want proven over potential. None of the guys mentioned made consistent impact on the field other than special teams and they have been around long enough for the grooming to be over. Too many waiver wire warriors or those at the end of the career rope who have been around awhile and are on the downside (Crocker a good example). Target proven quality in the draft and go after it. Acknowledge downsides (ie Maualuga has always over run plays, Carson not a leader) and if it can't be compensated for somehow (ie Maualuga's other two linebacker teammates at USC was a quality package), think about looking elsewhere. Taylor Mays is a former second round pick and cast off of another team. Not producing consistently here except special teams. Time to give him some serious thought. Didn't we have a former first round wide receiver (Jones?) who could not make it out of preseason? He had potential, too. Draft and build with proven quality. And to be fair to Marvin, we have been drafting "potential" forever here.[/quote] I thihk we have a winner for "DUMBEST POST EVER" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1326345195' post='1088861'] Marvin has always wanted 2 coverage safeties. Sands and Mays don't fit that. [/quote] kind of odd then that he traded for one and drafted the other, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1326375318' post='1088892'] there's a reason Dalton and Green were taken high in the draft, and Sands was a 5th round pick. As for Mays, Dalton and Green have been here twice as long as him. Are we seriously having a discussion about why a 5th round pick didn't make a major impact during his rookie year? Not even to mention the fact of a lockout that wiped out rookie minicamps? [/quote] I thought being a team where a seventh round pick wasn't a solid starter was a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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