LOL (Dalton Arm Strength Article)

[MichaelWeston]

Marvin has a history of big let downs after good years. That concerns me.
Starting Taylor mays concerns me.
Depth at LB concerns me.
What happens at C should cook go down concerns me.

I think Jay Gruden is a true offensive innovator so that does not concern me.
We should have a pretty nice sched again as well.
And Andy Dalton is a winner.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1337704054' post='1131973']
There's no need to bash Cossell (or Go for that matter).
[/quote]

Sorry, but when you try to portray yourself as an expert and everyone else as "koolaide drinkers" you are going to get ripped when you say a bunch of stuff that is completely false.

That's life on a message board.

[scharm]

I don't think Carson has anything to do with it. Dalton may or may not prove to be better than Carson. I don't know how Dalton's bengal career will pan out.

Carson and Brat didn't light things up in 2004. Alot of their scoring success came off a huge number TOs produced by red headed step child defense.

Yet, I recall people loved the potential and for good fucking reason after the 2004 season. That's all that's happening here. They faced hard circumstances and did a ton of good things last year. The offense deserves credit even if it borders on giving a free pass.

[scharm]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1337704512' post='1131976']
I think some of us are cutting them some slack because they had a rookie QB, a rookie #1 WR, a second year TE, lost their slot WR in game 2, and a brand new offense with no OTAs, and had an O-line that really struggled at run blocking. Plus they played 10 games against top 10 defenses.

Now, if those struggles continue this year I will be more concerned.
[/quote]

I guess you have to define "struggles". I expect improvement but it's going to be a struggle. It's 2nd year for alot of stuff. The No. 2 WR is clearly unsettled. No sure how it plays out at No. 2 TE or No. 3 WR. I don't think the backfield talent is all that good.

The O-line should be improved but 2/5ths are new so there's always adjustment time. I wouldn't expect top 10 in anything from the offense.

[Jamie_B]

We can't be content with what we did last year as far as how we played and expect to have the same results. The schedule will be tougher this year, we have to get better in every phase of the game if we want to progress. Last year was fun, but Go is right to point out we didn't win against teams with a winning record. On paper I think we can progress, but the games aren't played on paper.

[Bengals1181]

[color=#333333]
[url="https://twitter.com/#!/FOX19Joe"][b]Joe Danneman[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]FOX19Joe[/b][/size][/url][/color][color=#333333]
Dalton on internet report questioning his arm strength: "I'm comfortable with my arm. It didn't hold us back last year."[/color]

[Bengals1181]

[b] Dalton not bothered by arm strength criticism[/b]
[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/CIN"][img]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nfl/logos/50x50/CIN.png[/img][/url] [b]5 minutes ago[/b] - by Paul Dehner Jr.

NFL Films producer Greg Cosell offered criticism in a recent Yahoo! Sports podcast, claiming some in the [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/CIN/cincinnati-bengals"]Bengals[/url] organization questioned QB [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1125961/andy-dalton"]Andy Dalton[/url]'s arm strength. Dalton said none of the coaches addressed the comments with him directly, nor did they need to. "I don't think my arm strength is an issue," Dalton said. "Everybody has an opinion, (Cosell) can say whatever he wants. It's not going to affect me."
[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/CIN"]Cincinnati Bengals RapidReports[/url] | [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports"]All National Football League RapidReports[/url]

[Bengals1181]

[b] QB Dalton: 'Arm strength is not an issue'[/b]
[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/CIN"][img]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nfl/logos/50x50/CIN.png[/img][/url] [b]2 minutes ago[/b] - by Paul Dehner Jr.

QB [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1125961/andy-dalton"]Andy Dalton[/url] in response to those questioning his arm strength: "I don't think it held me back last year and I don't think it's going to hold me back in my career here. Arm strength is one thing, a lot of throwing the ball is timing, consistency and keeping everybody on the same page. I don't think arm strength is an issue."
[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/team/CIN"]Cincinnati Bengals RapidReports[/url] | [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports"]All National Football League RapidReports[/url]

[walzav31]

I say Cosell had him ranked as a fourth rounder, and he wants to be right about Dalton. Cam Newton had the 3rd ranked running games and didn't face 10 top 10 defenses. We all know the obstacles Dalton faced last season, the entire offense will be better. An offseason, the upgrades at guard, more WR's that can hopefully run a route, and more experience. With an improved D will all make Dalton better.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1337708644' post='1131996']
We can't be content with what we did last year as far as how we played and expect to have the same results. The schedule will be tougher this year, we have to get better in every phase of the game if we want to progress. Last year was fun, but Go is right to point out we didn't win against teams with a winning record. On paper I think we can progress, but the games aren't played on paper.
[/quote]

Too bad the critics haven't improved their game as well, instead of rehashing the same thing as last year.

We saw what he could do with his arm, which was make the playoffs with a iffy line, bad run game, and mistake prone defense. Improve those other parts so we don't have to rely on big bombs from his pitiful little arm.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1337713789' post='1132018']
Too bad the critics haven't improved their game as well, instead of rehashing the same thing as last year.

We saw what he could do with his arm, which was make the playoffs with a iffy line, bad run game, and mistake prone defense. Improve those other parts so we don't have to rely on big bombs from his pitiful little arm.
[/quote]

IIRC the specific critique is that he needs to improve his deep ball to the sidelines, not the middle, I dont think that has changed, his deep middle ball is good, his sideline balls do need to improve. As far as the rest of it, I said we have to improve in all phases, I know its hard for you to see a post from me and not be reactionary, but please read it next time.

[BlackBengal]

I don't get all of the criticism of Cosell. He wasnt ripping Dalton. He just pointed out one physical limitation (arm strength) and that there are QBs that regress after having some initial success. All of these things are true. It doesnt mean that Dalton won't go on to become a very good QB.

[texbengal]

[quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1337715148' post='1132021']
I don't get all of the criticism of Cosell. He wasnt ripping Dalton. He just pointed out one physical limitation (arm strength) and that there are QBs that regress after having some initial success. All of these things are true. It doesnt mean that Dalton won't go on to become a very good QB.
[/quote]

I agree, I just don't think arm strength is a big issue... unless you're, say, Graham Harrell

I think it's good enough, and it's things like accuracy and intangibles that will propel him in his career.

[Jason]

[quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1337715148' post='1132021']
I don't get all of the criticism of Cosell. He wasnt ripping Dalton. He just pointed out one physical limitation (arm strength) and that there are QBs that regress after having some initial success. All of these things are true. It doesnt mean that Dalton won't go on to become a very good QB.
[/quote]

He said the Bengals have reservations about him and concerns about his "upside" when it seems pretty clear they don't.

[scharm]

[quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1337715148' post='1132021']
I don't get all of the criticism of Cosell. He wasnt ripping Dalton. He just pointed out one physical limitation (arm strength) and that there are QBs that regress after having some initial success. All of these things are true. It doesnt mean that Dalton won't go on to become a very good QB.
[/quote]

I don't think people are ripping Cosell. They are ripping the undertone of the article that uses Cosell's analsysis that could be taken that Dalton isn't the future QB of this team.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1337701233' post='1131961']
I realize the coolaid is free and delicious. but Daltons shortcomings are the same ones scouts mentioned coming out of college, in the draft and that everyone should have seen on the field.... its pretty obvious the hatred for carson is still strong enough to blind everything around here.. our of the first 6-7 comments 3 of them mentioned him in one way or another.

cosell, spends his career breaking down football, and he has a fucking badass show during the season that should be a MUST watch for any football fan. I tried to bring this up over the last three seasons... he picks a few teams or players a week and does some great breakdowns of the style, player tendencies, etc.. he also dives into what coaching staffs have done to mask weaknesses and things like that. its on at some ungodly hour of the night as im sure its ratings suck since its not some bullshit shock jock horseshit show(like the publisher tried to make this article and cosells comments into)

dalton under threw green a lot, and green made some mind blowing catches in the process... dalton made 2-3 throws that were great throws, but he cant make all of the throws, and its pointed out pretty clearly and they stopped having WR's run those routes in the playbook all together. cosell even broke down from one game to the next one wekk, where the same play we ran twice and dalton wiffed by 10 yards on a wide open receiver, the next game the same exact play the WR who ran that route ran a different one but the rest of the play remained the same.

the guy knows his football....

i will take winning over losing all day every day.... but the top 3 defense all year was a bigger factor than anything. and green is a hell of a lot better than chad(who is taking pay cuts to keep a roster spot) ....

Dalton is the opposite of carson, and he fits marvins wants perfectly. but we got waxed by a 3rd string rookie qb from north carolina 31-10, and in that palyers first start, 20-19.

we lost to every single team with a decent defense and a winning record... did not beat a single team with a winning record..

top 3-5 defense most of the year(ended up top 10 in every category i think) + didnt beat a single team with a winning record.

we were 18th in points scored on offense..

how am i the only one concerned about the lack of scoring?

i dont like that marvin seems to be focused on what worked in 2000, the game has changed, i dont see is getting much better than 9-7 and out in the first round of the playoffs without getting better on offense..
[/quote]
Titans were 9-7

[thedaltonshow]

Dalton needs to improve in every area--that's what every great player does, every single offseason. Particularly, he needs to work on his timing with his eventual No. 2 receiver, his deep throws to AJ, and his ability to read some of the increasingly complex defenses in the league. As long as he works as hard as we're told he does, he will only improve, not regress. End of story.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1337701233' post='1131961']
I realize the coolaid is free and delicious. but Daltons shortcomings are the same ones scouts mentioned coming out of college, in the draft and that everyone should have seen on the field.... its pretty obvious the hatred for carson is still strong enough to blind everything around here.. our of the first 6-7 comments 3 of them mentioned him in one way or another.

cosell, spends his career breaking down football, and he has a fucking badass show during the season that should be a MUST watch for any football fan. I tried to bring this up over the last three seasons... he picks a few teams or players a week and does some great breakdowns of the style, player tendencies, etc.. he also dives into what coaching staffs have done to mask weaknesses and things like that. its on at some ungodly hour of the night as im sure its ratings suck since its not some bullshit shock jock horseshit show(like the publisher tried to make this article and cosells comments into)

dalton under threw green a lot, and green made some mind blowing catches in the process... dalton made 2-3 throws that were great throws, but he cant make all of the throws, and its pointed out pretty clearly and they stopped having WR's run those routes in the playbook all together. cosell even broke down from one game to the next one wekk, where the same play we ran twice and dalton wiffed by 10 yards on a wide open receiver, the next game the same exact play the WR who ran that route ran a different one but the rest of the play remained the same.

the guy knows his football....

i will take winning over losing all day every day.... but the top 3 defense all year was a bigger factor than anything. and green is a hell of a lot better than chad(who is taking pay cuts to keep a roster spot) ....

Dalton is the opposite of carson, and he fits marvins wants perfectly. but we got waxed by a 3rd string rookie qb from north carolina 31-10, and in that palyers first start, 20-19.

we lost to every single team with a decent defense and a winning record... did not beat a single team with a winning record..

top 3-5 defense most of the year(ended up top 10 in every category i think) + didnt beat a single team with a winning record.

we were 18th in points scored on offense..

how am i the only one concerned about the lack of scoring?

i dont like that marvin seems to be focused on what worked in 2000, the game has changed, i dont see is getting much better than 9-7 and out in the first round of the playoffs without getting better on offense..
[/quote]

Three things, Go.
1st, yes the koolaid is pretty damn good. You could probably use it as mouthwash to get some of the Carson love out of your mouth.

Two, Cosell is a good analyst, and I agree in some aspects with some of what he said, but nothing in my post referenced cosell, I mentioned Silva, who does have an annoying habit of trying to make people think there is turmoil on every team, not just ours, like he speaks to everyone that's in the know. As has been pointed out by other posters, arm strength is not the be all of QBing, if it was Boller would be king.

Third, 6 words.

GOOD TO SEE YOU POSTING AGAIN!!


We might not always agree, but who gives a shit, you're a pretty damn good Bengal's FAN!!

[T-Dub]

[size=4]Greg Cosell must be a graduate of the Paul Daugherty School of Trolling[/size]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1337726133' post='1132045']
Titans were 9-7
[/quote]

IIRC didnt they have a losing record at the time we played them?

[mongo]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1337734324' post='1132064']


IIRC didnt they have a losing record at the time we played them?
[/quote]

Doesn't matter. If it did, we beat Buffalo when they were on fire.

[Oldcat]

They were 4-3 when we played them.

[T-Dub]

Are we back to questioning the strength of schedule again? What about the Patriot's lack of "signature" wins? Don't remember the talking heads questioning their record.. Hmm, wonder why that is? Must be all that parity stuff.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1337734980' post='1132069']
Are we back to questioning the strength of schedule again? What about the Patriot's lack of "signature" wins? Don't remember the talking heads questioning their record.. Hmm, wonder why that is? Must be all that parity stuff.
[/quote]

I'm gonna go with the whole getting to the superbowl thing

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1337735102' post='1132070']
I'm gonna go with the whole getting to the superbowl thing
[/quote]

That would be a good reason, if the "Strength of Schedule" stuff had started [i]after[/i] the superbowl. I started hearing it as soon as it looked like we'd make the playoffs.