2013 Draft and Free Agency

[Oldcat]

[quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1354326948' post='1186643']
OK, Barr is looking a little gangly in space against Stanford right now... Just got completely turned around on a long Taylor run, where he little turned 270 degrees to face the runner - and gave up an extra 25 yards as a result.
[/quote]

He's probably confused. He's expecting a team named after the color "Red" to have red uniforms.

[akiliMVP]

That ogletree dude is pretty good

[fluhartz]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1354406083' post='1186803']
That ogletree dude is pretty good
[/quote]

the run stuff he had in the first was awesome...

so yea... I agree

[Jason]

If we go LB early I want Mosley. He did a great job on that screen pass. It would be nice to have a LB that can actually cover.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1354454290' post='1186848']
If we go LB early I want Mosley. He did a great job on that screen pass. It would be nice to have a LB that can actually cover.
[/quote]

Mosley's an excellent college player - he's got some Lavonte David to him, which I mean in a good way. Great pass defender and playmaker but because of his size, I'd be concerned about how he would hold up at the point of attack. At Alabama, he played more in passing situations, so you wonder how he'd be as a 3-down LB in the pros.

If Howard comes back all the way, I think he's the best pass defending LB they have had in many years. Maybe that's faint praise, and he'll be 30, but his first year in Cincinnati, he was very good. And I think Emmanuel Lamur has shown some flashes, too, and since he played quite a bit of safety at K-State, that no doubt helps him.

There are other LBers coming out that I would prefer, but I do like Mosley and he could certainly help the team. One guy who impresses me more each time I see him is Chase Thomas of Stanford. He's everywhere - blitzing, making plays behind the LOS, etc. Really good player with a great motor and some size to him. Like most college LBs, he'd have to work on pass drops, but he brings a lot to the table.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1354464058' post='1186870']
Mosley's an excellent college player - he's got some Lavonte David to him, which I mean in a good way. Great pass defender and playmaker but because of his size, I'd be concerned about how he would hold up at the point of attack. At Alabama, he played more in passing situations, so you wonder how he'd be as a 3-down LB in the pros.

If Howard comes back all the way, I think he's the best pass defending LB they have had in many years. Maybe that's faint praise, and he'll be 30, but his first year in Cincinnati, he was very good. And I think Emmanuel Lamur has shown some flashes, too, and since he played quite a bit of safety at K-State, that no doubt helps him.

There are other LBers coming out that I would prefer, but I do like Mosley and he could certainly help the team. One guy who impresses me more each time I see him is Chase Thomas of Stanford. He's everywhere - blitzing, making plays behind the LOS, etc. Really good player with a great motor and some size to him. Like most college LBs, he'd have to work on pass drops, but he brings a lot to the table.
[/quote]

I know you mention his size, but I almost think Mosley may best fit at MLB.


Tried to watch some of Thomas Friday night. He was putting his hand down a lot more than I remember. Also like his teammate Skov.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354464895' post='1186875']
I know you mention his size, but I almost think Mosley may best fit at MLB.


Tried to watch some of Thomas Friday night. He was putting his hand down a lot more than I remember. Also like his teammate Skov.
[/quote]
Some people are projecting Mosley as a best fit at weakside LB - which would make sense for us given Howard's age. In actual fact, he has played all 3 spots during his career to date both in a 4-3 and 3-4. Apart from Jarvis Jones, Mosley is probably the most versatile LB in the draft. Probably the best pure outside 4-3 LB in the draft. He can drop back to cover the pass, blitz, and play the run at a high level.

[happyrid]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1354464058' post='1186870']
Mosley's an excellent college player - he's got some Lavonte David to him, which I mean in a good way. Great pass defender and playmaker but because of his size, I'd be concerned about how he would hold up at the point of attack. At Alabama, he played more in passing situations, so you wonder how he'd be as a 3-down LB in the pros.

If Howard comes back all the way, I think he's the best pass defending LB they have had in many years. Maybe that's faint praise, and he'll be 30, but his first year in Cincinnati, he was very good. And I think Emmanuel Lamur has shown some flashes, too, and since he played quite a bit of safety at K-State, that no doubt helps him.

There are other LBers coming out that I would prefer, but I do like Mosley and he could certainly help the team. One guy who impresses me more each time I see him is Chase Thomas of Stanford. He's everywhere - blitzing, making plays behind the LOS, etc. Really good player with a great motor and some size to him. Like most college LBs, he'd have to work on pass drops, but he brings a lot to the table.
[/quote]

I like Thomas as well, but watching him more, I think he's solely a SLB in the NFL. And it seems like the Bengals only play the SLB about 20% of the time. In the NFL in this day and age, almost everyone has at least 3 WRs out there most of the time so Nickle is really your base Defense. And SLB is always the first guy to head to the bench in the nickle. For example, starting SLB Manny Lawson was barely on the field today.

I'd like to add a starting caliber SLB to replace Lawson, but I'm not sure it is worth spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on one. However, in Thomas' favor, perhaps he can also move down to DE in obvious passing situations.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1354508187' post='1188128']
I like Thomas as well, but watching him more, I think he's solely a SLB in the NFL. And it seems like the Bengals only play the SLB about 20% of the time. In the NFL in this day and age, almost everyone has at least 3 WRs out there most of the time so Nickle is really your base Defense. And SLB is always the first guy to head to the bench in the nickle. For example, starting SLB Manny Lawson was barely on the field today.

I'd like to add a starting caliber SLB to replace Lawson, but I'm not sure it is worth spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on one. However, in Thomas' favor, perhaps he can also move down to DE in obvious passing situations.
[/quote]

SLB doesn't have to be the one to head to the bench, its just the way it is for the bengals.


I know some here care about finding a SLB that can rush the passer. I really don't care about that, especially with the front 4 the Bengals have. Find me a LB who can cover.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354508657' post='1188136']
SLB doesn't have to be the one to head to the bench, its just the way it is for the bengals.


I know some here care about finding a SLB that can rush the passer. I really don't care about that, especially with the front 4 the Bengals have. Find me a LB who can cover.
[/quote]

If college SLBs tend to rush and that's all, maybe we look at MLB's who can cover and move him over.

[happyrid]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354508657' post='1188136']
SLB doesn't have to be the one to head to the bench, its just the way it is for the bengals.


I know some here care about finding a SLB that can rush the passer. I really don't care about that, especially with the front 4 the Bengals have. Find me a LB who can cover.
[/quote]

True, but that's kind of the job description. The SLB is your biggest LB and plays closest to the line of scrimmage. He doesn't have to cover too often. Your WLB is usually your smallest, fastest LB. So it is almost always the SLB who comes out on nickle for all teams at all levels. It's not just the Bengals. It is pretty much every single team that runs a 4-3 defense.

Thus, if you're a 4-3 team drafting a LB early, it almost has to be a WLB or MLB who will be on the field most downs. Or a SLB who can be a moved down to DE as a pass rusher on 3rd downs. If the guy doesn't fit into one of those 2 categories, he's probably not worth an early pick.

A guy like Thomas could be more valuable to a 3-4 team. That was how Manny Lawson was a 1st rounder back in his day also.

[happyrid]

Anyone watched youtube of Ezekiel Ansah from BYU?

He reminds me a little bit of Dunlap and a little bit of Geathers. Big DE, probably 6'5 275 but really athletic. He's new to football, only played for a couple years after starting at BYU on a track scholarship. I don't think he'd be a project though as he seems to understand the game pretty well and plays hard. He could end up being a good Geathers replacement as he would be great against the run on early downs and then could be a really good pass rusher shifting down to DT on 3rd downs.

Depending on what he runs at the combine, he could be a guy to target with one of the 2nd rounders or he could end up moving up into the 1st and may even be a guy like Jason Pierre-Paul who goes off the board before we even have a shot at him in the 1st round.

[SocalBengalEd]

i saw some Mosley yesterday hes a stud. Skov looks solid in the middle too. Obviously Teo is the best of the bunch

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1354516253' post='1188166']
Anyone watched youtube of Ezekiel Ansah from BYU?

He reminds me a little bit of Dunlap and a little bit of Geathers. Big DE, probably 6'5 275 but really athletic. He's new to football, only played for a couple years after starting at BYU on a track scholarship. I don't think he'd be a project though as he seems to understand the game pretty well and plays hard. He could end up being a good Geathers replacement as he would be great against the run on early downs and then could be a really good pass rusher shifting down to DT on 3rd downs.

Depending on what he runs at the combine, he could be a guy to target with one of the 2nd rounders or he could end up moving up into the 1st and may even be a guy like Jason Pierre-Paul who goes off the board before we even have a shot at him in the 1st round.
[/quote]


Ansah is very intriguing, but very raw. IMO he's gonna go before they need to take a DE (he's likely a high 2), plus that's a little too high for them to take a project.

Bengals need to nail these top 3 picks so it puts them over the hump. They shouldn't take any projects or guys switching positions IMO.

[happyrid]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354537657' post='1188174']
Ansah is very intriguing, but very raw. IMO he's gonna go before they need to take a DE (he's likely a high 2), plus that's a little too high for them to take a project.

Bengals need to nail these top 3 picks so it puts them over the hump. They shouldn't take any projects or guys switching positions IMO.
[/quote]

Not sure I agree about DE. Dunlap is the only guy we have under contract for next year and it'll be the last year of his deal. We'll know a lot more about how big of a need it is after FA, but as of now, you have to assume its a relatively big need.

Ideally, we'll be able to get MJ signed to a long term deal this offseason and maybe even get Dunlap extended (though I doubt they do both the same offseason) which would leave the franchise tag open for Atkins in 2014 if needed. I'd love to see the Bengals pay MJ, Dunlap and Atkins. But if the past is any indicator, they'll probably end up letting one of the 3 go and trying to replace him with a cheap draft pick. It won't be Atkins leaving (knock on wood), so that leaves MJ or Dunlap. Just a gut feeling, but I bet Mike Brown is thinking a 1st rounder at DE to replace whichever of those 2 isn't retained long-term....

I'm also not convinced that Ansah's a big project. He looks pretty darn good at D Line right now for BYU. One of the reasons I like him is that he is playing like a 2nd or 3rd rounder right now, but he still has that potential upside where he could improve any more. With his great character off the field and motor on the field, he's not all that risky of a pick.

It kind of depends what the Bengals are looking for. In terms of the bigger 270+ DEs, he's as good as anyone. There are also a lot of guys in the 245-260 range who are more pass rush specialists (Mingo, Montgomery, etc.). I think a lot of those smaller guys will struggle against the run and need to be part of a rotation at DE. Whereas Ansah can be a 1st and 2nd down DE and still get after the passer decently well on 3rd down (maybe at DT like Geathers).

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1354549515' post='1188245']
Not sure I agree about DE. Dunlap is the only guy we have under contract for next year and it'll be the last year of his deal. We'll know a lot more about how big of a need it is after FA, but as of now, you have to assume its a relatively big need.

Ideally, we'll be able to get MJ signed to a long term deal this offseason and maybe even get Dunlap extended (though I doubt they do both the same offseason) which would leave the franchise tag open for Atkins in 2014 if needed. I'd love to see the Bengals pay MJ, Dunlap and Atkins. But if the past is any indicator, they'll probably end up letting one of the 3 go and trying to replace him with a cheap draft pick. It won't be Atkins leaving (knock on wood), so that leaves MJ or Dunlap. Just a gut feeling, but I bet Mike Brown is thinking a 1st rounder at DE to replace whichever of those 2 isn't retained long-term....

I'm also not convinced that Ansah's a big project. He looks pretty darn good at D Line right now for BYU. One of the reasons I like him is that he is playing like a 2nd or 3rd rounder right now, but he still has that potential upside where he could improve any more. With his great character off the field and motor on the field, he's not all that risky of a pick.

It kind of depends what the Bengals are looking for. In terms of the bigger 270+ DEs, he's as good as anyone. There are also a lot of guys in the 245-260 range who are more pass rush specialists (Mingo, Montgomery, etc.). I think a lot of those smaller guys will struggle against the run and need to be part of a rotation at DE. Whereas Ansah can be a 1st and 2nd down DE and still get after the passer decently well on 3rd down (maybe at DT like Geathers).
[/quote]

I think both MJ and Gilberry will be back.

On paper DE is a need, but I think it will end up alright.


Anderson is also under contract next season, and they could always bring in Fanene.


Ansah wasn't even playing football 2 years ago. He's going to be a project in some way whether its big or small.

[SocalBengalEd]

Sign MJ to a decent contract, should be easy just use Geathers money when he leaves. I'm worried about signing Dunlap and Atkins though

[akiliMVP]

I'm thinking:
1. S Eric Reid, LSU
2a. OLB C.J. Mosely, Bama
2b. RB Andre Ellington, Clemson

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1354557938' post='1188283']
I'm thinking:
1. S Eric Reid, LSU
2a. OLB C.J. Mosely, Bama
2b. RB Andre Ellington, Clemson
[/quote]

I give your draft an A on paper already but I may take someone other than Ellington at 2b though it's not a bad choice at all.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1354557938' post='1188283']
I'm thinking:
1. S Eric Reid, LSU
2a. OLB C.J. Mosely, Bama
2b. RB Andre Ellington, Clemson
[/quote]

Reid and Jefferson are neck and neck for me, but I'm giving a slight nod to jefferson. Right now, I'm thinking:

1. S Tony Jefferson
2a. LB Arthur Brown (I think he's a first round talent but could see him falling as other prospects rise).
2b. RB Johnathan Franklin
3. WR Tavares King
4. OT Xavier Nixon
5. DE Malliciah Goodman
6. TE Travis Kelce

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1354557938' post='1188283']
I'm thinking:
1. S Eric Reid, LSU
2a. OLB C.J. Mosely, Bama
2b. RB Andre Ellington, Clemson
[/quote]

Not bad but I would take Mosley in 1, coz that's what the Bengals do normally, take linebackers in round 1 and never a safety. Also, Reid is a bit overrated imo. I would have TJ McDonald or Vacarro with the 2a pick instead. Ellington is good but I'd prefer a real burner like Kenjon Barner at that spot.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1354560422' post='1188304']
Not bad but I would take Mosley in 1, coz that's what the Bengals do normally, take linebackers in round 1 and[b] never a safety. [/b] Also, Reid is a bit overrated imo. I would have TJ McDonald or Vacarro with the 2a pick instead. Ellington is good but I'd prefer a real burner like Kenjon Barner at that spot.
[/quote]


I think its time for us to realize any position is fair game in the first round. They'd never taken a first round corner before joseph, and have taken 2 more since. Zeitler was the first ever guard. Gresham was the first 1st round TE since 1977 and only second in franchise history.

IMO they'll take whoever will help them best, regardless of position.

[happyrid]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354549855' post='1188248']


I think both MJ and Gilberry will be back.

On paper DE is a need, but I think it will end up alright.


Anderson is also under contract next season, and they could always bring in Fanene.


Ansah wasn't even playing football 2 years ago. He's going to be a project in some way whether its big or small.
[/quote]

I hope you are right about MJ and I really hope they get Dunlap extended this offseason as well. He will be shockingly expensive if he ever hits the FA market. He will turn 25 one month before he is scheduled to be a FA. A guy with his youth, size, athleticism, etc is going to be in extremely high demand.

As I see it, we have 4 guys who are very key to this team who will hit FA over the next 2 years:

Andre Smith
Michael Johnson
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap

I would be ecstatic if we could keep all 4 and that should be the goal. However, all 4 of those guys are going to command big money and it is pretty realistic to assume 1 gets away. If so, I'll be a little disappointed, but not angry. If 2 or more of those guys leave, it will be a colossal failure that could really set the franchise back.

If you are conservative and assume we can't keep all four, the logical conclusion is to make sure we keep Andre and Geno and one of the two DEs. If we can only keep one, I'd prefer Dunlap over MJ.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1354557642' post='1188280']
Sign MJ to a decent contract, should be easy just use Geathers money when he leaves. I'm worried about signing Dunlap and Atkins though
[/quote]

There is going to be plenty of cash to get all of them--including Geathers, if we are so inclined.

Switching gears a moment from draft to FA: I was thinking yesterday that MB should just go all-out to resign every pending FA on the roster..and make going out into the market a secondary plan. We have so many good, young, players--why not secure them up and not worry about somebody else's players?

Just sayin'

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1354561305' post='1188314']
There is going to be plenty of cash to get all of them--including Geathers, if we are so inclined.

Switching gears a moment from draft to FA: I was thinking yesterday that MB should just go all-out to resign every pending FA on the roster..and make going out into the market a secondary plan. We have so many good, young, players--why not secure them up and not worry about somebody else's players?

Just sayin'
[/quote]


I agree, though it takes two to tango.


To add to Geathers $4.2 million, $4.5 million comes off the book with nate clements too and they could dump Jason Allen and save another $3.7 million.


Last I heard they were currently about $9 million under as it is, so hopefully they get one deal done before the new cap in March.

fyi for those who ever wonder about Bengals contracts:


http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/cin/