2013 Draft and Free Agency

[akiliMVP]

In the little research I've done so far Ellington seems to be the 2nd best speed back (Giovnai Bernard 1st) in the draft. I like that he can also return punts and kickoffs. So taking him would essentially replace Scott and Tate.

Weakside linebackers don't typically go in the first round. I think Mosley's stock is similar to Lavonte David as an upper 2nd rounder.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354561609' post='1188315']
I agree, though it takes two to tango.


To add to Geathers $4.2 million, $4.5 million comes off the book with nate clements too and they could dump Jason Allen and save another $3.7 million.


Last I heard they were currently about $9 million under as it is, so hopefully they get one deal done before the new cap in March.

fyi for those who ever wonder about Bengals contracts:


[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/cin/"]http://www.rotoworld...tracts/nfl/cin/[/url]
[/quote]

I was also thinking they don't want to get too cute in jettisoning corners too quickly. Dre is going to be a defacto rookie next year, and as we have seen this season, a few of the "old guys" can still play. I would heartily recommend they re-up Newman and Adam, to name a few.

[alleycat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354561609' post='1188315']
I agree, though it takes two to tango.


To add to Geathers $4.2 million, $4.5 million comes off the book with nate clements too and they could dump Jason Allen and save another $3.7 million.


Last I heard they were currently about $9 million under as it is, so hopefully they get one deal done before the new cap in March.

fyi for those who ever wonder about Bengals contracts:


[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/cin/"]http://www.rotoworld...tracts/nfl/cin/[/url]
[/quote]
Interesting.
It was looking like Clements had a future at safety or backup corner, but he hasn't basically sniffed the D since Crocker arrived, making him a very expensive Bench warmer. I'd say the same about Allen, but if we cut those two I think we'd definitely have to grab another corner with one of our first three picks (I wouldn't be opposed). Sure does make drafting a Safety high seem like a much more likely option now.

And, FWIW, I'd thank Geathers for his service and send him along as well. That's a lot of change to free up, which we'll need to keep our bright young future going - and add some space at a premium position like DE. I think Gilberry has proven solid, and Geathers is good but not great. Anderson, on the other hand, was a suckfest during preseason so I easily see us getting rid of two - and making room for another young impact guy. Fact of the matter is, though, if we retain MJ that guy will probably start year one in spot-duty, so a little bit of a developmental project with huge upside might not be a bad thing.

The big knock on JPP and Aldon Smith was their relative youth and inexperience. QB pressure is a proven formula for SB wins. I say it's a good option.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1354562016' post='1188318']
I was also thinking they don't want to get too cute in jettisoning corners too quickly. Dre is going to be a defacto rookie next year, and as we have seen this season, a few of the "old guys" can still play. I would heartily recommend they re-up Newman and Adam, to name a few.
[/quote]

I definitely think Adam will be back.


They could probably cut Allen and almost have enough to keep both jones and newman.

Aside from kirkpatrick and hall, prater and ghee are also back.



So if they do nothing at all, they already have 5 corners on the roster. I imagine they'll resign Newman and Jones, cut allen, and go into camp with hall, kirkpatrick, jones, newman, prater and ghee along with maybe another late pick or free agent pickup. They also have that chris harris-lewis kid on the practice squad that played well in spots.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1354562186' post='1188319']
Interesting.
It was looking like Clements had a future at safety or backup corner, but he hasn't basically sniffed the D since Crocker arrived, making him a very expensive Bench warmer. I'd say the same about Allen, but if we cut those two I think we'd definitely have to grab another corner with one of our first three picks (I wouldn't be opposed). Sure does make drafting a Safety high seem like a much more likely option now.

And, FWIW, I'd thank Geathers for his service and send him along as well. That's a lot of change to free up, which we'll need to keep our bright young future going - and add some space at a premium position like DE. I think Gilberry has proven solid, and Geathers is good but not great. Anderson, on the other hand, was a suckfest during preseason so I easily see us getting rid of two - and making room for another young impact guy. Fact of the matter is, though, if we retain MJ that guy will probably start year one in spot-duty, so a little bit of a developmental project with huge upside might not be a bad thing.

The big knock on JPP and Aldon Smith was their relative youth and inexperience. QB pressure is a proven formula for SB wins. I say it's a good option.
[/quote]
Actually Clements has still played a little since Crocker came back, and played pretty well at safety when Reggie Nelson was out against Oakland. I hope we keep Clements coz he's actually turned the safety depth chart on it's head and made it a stronger group. Also, his experience and leadership are invaluable to this young team at present.

Also, regarding the D-line, I hope they keep Sims next year, and turn Devon Still into another Fanene type guy, where he plays a bit of DE and DT. I think Still is a prime candidate for that role, as he did both in college. I think he could be a monster rushing off the edge for our D-line.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1354561733' post='1188316']
In the little research I've done so far Ellington seems to be the 2nd best speed back (Giovnai Bernard 1st) in the draft. I like that he can also return punts and kickoffs. So taking him would essentially replace Scott and Tate.

[b]Weakside linebackers don't typically go in the first round.[/b] I think Mosley's stock is similar to Lavonte David as an upper 2nd rounder.
[/quote]
We drafted WILL LB Keith Rivers in the 1st back in 2008. The LB position doesn't matter, it's if they can play all 3 downs that pushes their draft stock up mostly.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1354574325' post='1188382']
Actually Clements has still played a little since Crocker came back, and played pretty well at safety when Reggie Nelson was out against Oakland. I hope we keep Clements coz he's actually turned the safety depth chart on it's head and made it a stronger group. Also, his experience and leadership are invaluable to this young team at present.

Also, regarding the D-line, I hope they keep Sims next year, and turn Devon Still into another Fanene type guy, where he plays a bit of DE and DT. I think Still is a prime candidate for that role, as he did both in college. I think he could be a monster rushing off the edge for our D-line.
[/quote]

if they keep Sims, that's exactly what I'd do with Still. Take 15lbs off him and make him a bigger, more talented Fanene.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354574732' post='1188385']


if they keep Sims, that's exactly what I'd do with Still. Take 15lbs off him and make him a bigger, more talented Fanene.
[/quote]

When he was playing he definitely got snaps from multiple spots so I think you're right.

[WRAPradio]

Quite honestly I'd like to trade this year's first rounder for a 1 and maybe a 3 or 4 next year. Next year's class with Marquis Lee (WR, USC) and J. Clowney (DE, SC) has the potentially to be really good. If we could somehow get Lee and/or Clowney next year we'd have a really good shot at a Superbowl. I think those two have that much talent.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='WRAPradio' timestamp='1354577218' post='1188395']
Quite honestly I'd like to trade this year's first rounder for a 1 and maybe a 3 or 4 next year. Next year's class with Marquis Lee (WR, USC) and J. Clowney (DE, SC) has the potentially to be really good. If we could somehow get Lee and/or Clowney next year we'd have a really good shot at a Superbowl. I think those two have that much talent.
[/quote]

if this was a rebuilding year, I'd be open to that. However, this team isn't 2-3 players from being a super bowl contender next year imo.

I'm much more tempted to trade up for an extra high pick than to trade down to stockpile.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354578005' post='1188398']
if this was a rebuilding year, I'd be open to that. However, this team isn't 2-3 players from being a super bowl contender next year imo.

I'm much more tempted to trade up for an extra high pick than to trade down to stockpile.
[/quote]

If it were a rebuilding year, we would need all the starters we could grab right now.

However, I don't see us as so stocked that we can afford to pass on a starter. We have needs at LB (SLB at least), RB (fast guy), S, and possibly WR depth for sure. Plus the beefing up of the ones that seem solid now. And this assumes we don't have any issues signing our own that we want (Smith, MJ, Geathers, RayM)

So I don't see us passing up our #1 just yet.

[sois]

[quote name='Randle P McMurphy' timestamp='1354060306' post='1185802']
[b]I can't remember who all is a Free Agent next year and who isn't but the one's that I know of or at least[/b]
[b]think I know of that we need to keep are as follows:[/b]

[b]OT Andre Smith. [/b]
[b]DE Michael Johnson. [/b]
[b]DE Robert Geathers. [/b]
[b]PK Mike Nugent. [/b]
[b]QB Bruce Gradkowski. [/b]
[b]LB Thomas Howard. [/b][b] [/b]
[b]CB Adam Jones. [/b]
[/quote]

Keep all except geathers.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1354561047' post='1188309']
I hope you are right about MJ and I really hope they get Dunlap extended this offseason as well. He will be shockingly expensive if he ever hits the FA market. He will turn 25 one month before he is scheduled to be a FA. A guy with his youth, size, athleticism, etc is going to be in extremely high demand.

As I see it, we have 4 guys who are very key to this team who will hit FA over the next 2 years:

Andre Smith
Michael Johnson
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap

I would be ecstatic if we could keep all 4 and that should be the goal. However, all 4 of those guys are going to command big money and it is pretty realistic to assume 1 gets away. If so, I'll be a little disappointed, but not angry. If 2 or more of those guys leave, it will be a colossal failure that could really set the franchise back.

If you are conservative and assume we can't keep all four, the logical conclusion is to make sure we keep Andre and Geno and one of the two DEs. If we can only keep one, I'd prefer Dunlap over MJ.
[/quote]
Out of that group Atkins is the no.1 priority. Good pass rushing DT's are a rarity these days and he's never been injured (knock on wood).

[happyrid]

[quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1354588756' post='1188440']
Out of that group Atkins is the no.1 priority. Good pass rushing DT's are a rarity these days and he's never been injured (knock on wood).
[/quote]

Agreed. In re-watching some of yesterday's game, he provides much more than just sacks. On both of Dunlap's sacks, Atkins had a huge push up the middle which made it impossible for Rivers to step up. It's almost like he gets an assist on a lot of these DE sacks because they are rushing wide around the OTs and he is forcing the QB back in the pocket right into their paths.

I think I've mentioned this previously, but the nice thing with Atkins is that I think the DT franchise tag is very reasonable. Obviously an extension would be ideal, but there is no reason for him to hit the FA market any time soon even if you can't get a deal done.

It's a lot tougher to franchise any of the other 3 major FAs. There are some huge contracts out there at DE (Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, etc.). And RTs are lumped in with LTs so there are some huge OT contracts as well (Joe Thomas for example).

So basically, I'd say Atkins is the most important guy to keep. But in terms of the order of the contract extensions, I think Andre Smith is the immediate concern. Then you need to get at least one of the DEs extended. You can franchise Atkins in 2014 and maybe even 2015, so there isn't quite the same urgency.

[happyrid]

To add a bit more on the franchise tags, here are the relevant projected numbers for 2013:

DE: $10.8 million
OL: $9.3 million
DT: $8.0 million

At $9.3 for one year, I think you have to franchise Andre if you can't get a deal in time this spring. Then you can continue to negotiate all summer/fall until you get something long-term done. With his injury history, he has a real incentive to get a deal with guaranteed money done.

At nearly $11 million, it is too costly to think about franchising MJ this spring or Dunlap in 2014.

At $8 million or so, if we don't have a deal in place for 2014 with Atkins, it is an absolute no-brainer to use the tag on him. That lower tag amount could also be pretty helpful in getting a longer term deal done. Gives the Bengals some nice leverage.

[SocalBengalEd]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1354558975' post='1188292']
Reid and Jefferson are neck and neck for me, but I'm giving a slight nod to jefferson. Right now, I'm thinking:

1. S Tony Jefferson
2a. LB Arthur Brown (I think he's a first round talent but could see him falling as other prospects rise).
2b. RB Johnathan Franklin
3. WR Tavares King
4. OT Xavier Nixon
5. DE Malliciah Goodman
6. TE Travis Kelce
[/quote]


For me

1. C.J. Mosley LB Alabama
2. Eric Reid S LSU
2.b Jonathan Franklin RB UCLA

My scenario is move Mosley outside and slide Burfict in the middle. Our nickel D would be bad ass. Franklin is a stud rb, come the combine this guy will continue to rise. He tore up a great Stanford defense last week and he carried UCLA this year. He reminds me of a better version of Ahmed Bradshaw.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1354603173' post='1188474']
For me

1. C.J. Mosley LB Alabama
2. Eric Reid S LSU
2.b Jonathan Franklin RB UCLA

My scenario is move Mosley outside and slide Burfict in the middle. Our nickel D would be bad ass. Franklin is a stud rb, come the combine this guy will continue to rise. He tore up a great Stanford defense last week and he carried UCLA this year. He reminds me of a better version of Ahmed Bradshaw.
[/quote]


with the way franklin can catch out of the backfield, I like a lesean mccoy comparison.

[EnglishBengal]

In the light of us signing Josh Brown and Nugent's injury concerns, what's the 2013 draft class like for kickers? Any insight?

[Bengals1181]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]
[url="https://twitter.com/CBSBengals"][b]Bengals RapidReports[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]CBSBengals[/b][/size][/url][/background][/font][/color][color=#333333][font=Arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]
Brown hit at least 80 percent of his kicks four of the last six years. As solid of a veteran as you'll find at this point.[/background][/font][/color]

[Sox]

A guy I haven't seen anybody mention is Tavon Austin,West Virginia.He is an absolute monster in space,and probably the best PR and KR as well.Despite his height,he can play WR and RB.He would give DC's nightmares.And no,I don't think it's a reach.I don't think he makes it past Denver or New England in the 1st round.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='Sox' timestamp='1354820726' post='1189218']
A guy I haven't seen anybody mention is Tavon Austin,West Virginia.He is an absolute monster in space,and probably the best PR and KR as well.Despite his height,he can play WR and RB.He would give DC's nightmares.And no,I don't think it's a reach.I don't think he makes it past Denver or New England in the 1st round.
[/quote]

There is a thread about him in the Fantasy/Draft Talk section.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Sox' timestamp='1354820726' post='1189218']
A guy I haven't seen anybody mention is Tavon Austin,West Virginia.He is an absolute monster in space,and probably the best PR and KR as well.Despite his height,he can play WR and RB.He would give DC's nightmares.And no,I don't think it's a reach.I don't think he makes it past Denver or New England in the 1st round.
[/quote]

I didn't like the idea at first, but as the running game improves I think they might be able to hold off on a RB in the 2nd round and take someone like Austin.

I don't think they need a 2nd round WR, but he's not just a WR. It could give them a dominant special teams unit and he can also give you 3-5 snaps as a change of pace RB.

[Sox]

I don't see him getting past New England in the first round.I think this guy gives us a scary offense AND special teams.

[turningpoint]

We could spend $9 million a year on Atkins, Andra, MJ and Dunlap and still should have plenty of money for Green Gresham and Dalton. Let's assume $30 million fore them too.
MJ 5 years 40 million, Dunlap the same deal. Atkins 5 years 60million. and Andre 4 years 38 million. Green 6 years 100 million. Gresham 5years 33 million and Dalton 6years 77-80 million.

Lock the fuckers up, they'll be beyond cheap in 3 years at those prices.

Seriously, that's only 70 million, but to probably our 7 best players, besides whitworth.

The cap # next year will easily be over 140million.........we have plenty of room.

[EnglishBengal]

DE may or may not be the biggest need on this team come draft day (all depending on whether or not we extend Michael Johnson), but I'm really starting to like Bjoen Werner. He has a bit of JJ Watt about him (apart from the height).

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV4Bu_T1CNs"]https://www.youtube....h?v=UV4Bu_T1CNs[/url]