EDIT: Assuming we don't sign a veteran in FA - Would you take a wide receiver at 21?

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1359661717' post='1212309']
I don't know. I mean we have a direct comparison of Keenan Allen and Marvin Jones as they were teammates in college. Keenan Allen was significantly better than Marvin despite being two years younger.

I just don't buy the argument that one of the top guys wouldn't be an instant upgrade over what we already have.

Due to AJ, Jones faced a lot of single coverage against the other teams 2nd best CB and he had very little production.

Sanu fared better, but he is definitely an inside guy.
[/quote]

Agree.

Also, the Bengals are supposed to be a [b]"here and now"[/b] team, and the time is now to get over the hump and stay there. Marvin Jones isn't really a "here and now" player, he's more of a "tomorrow's just around the corner" type of guy. And that is the problem. You need to fill the gap somehow and plug it with an upgrade asap, to keep things moving forward whilst staying in the "here and now".

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359662578' post='1212315']
What she said.

?
[/quote]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't believe you actually think that.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1359661980' post='1212311']
Agree.
[/quote]
[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359662306' post='1212313']
what he said.
[/quote]
[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359662578' post='1212315']
What she said.

?
[/quote]


x5

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359662642' post='1212317']
I understand what you're saying, but I don't believe you actually think that.
[/quote]

I this case I fully believe it.

[Bengal27]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359662306' post='1212313']


what he said.
[/quote]

Ditto

[T-Dub]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1359661879' post='1212310']
I'd be shocked if we draft a single offensive lineman in the first 3 rounds. We have a stud LT [/quote] that will be 32 at the end of next season and is about to undergo his 2nd surgery on a nagging knee injury
[quote]a good veteran Wharton[/quote] that will be 32 in May and has now had reconstructive surgery on both knees [quote] and Boling at LG. Cook and Robinson are [s]good[/s] serviceable. Zietler and Smith,[/quote] a free agent, [quote]are studs on the right side.[size=4][/quote][/size]

[akiliMVP]

[quote]
that will be 32 at the end of next season and is about to undergo his 2nd surgery on a nagging knee injury
[/quote]
That is extremely minor coming off his first pro bowl

[quote]that will be 32 in May and has now had reconstructive surgery on both knees
[/quote]
He'll have had over a year to recover and Boling is young and can only get better.

[quote] a free agent, [/quote]
That will be re-signed or franchised

It's also been outlined 1000 times why there's no fn way we draft a center.

Continuity is huge with offensive lines. You don't go blowing them up every season because of youth and injuries. Let the young guys (Boling, Robinson and Zietler) develop, and the vets (Whit, Wharton and Cook) recover.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1359692217' post='1212396']
that will be 32 at the end of next season and is about to undergo his 2nd surgery on a nagging knee injury
that will be 32 in May and has now had reconstructive surgery on both knees a free agent, [/size]
[/quote]

I think I share your opinion, if we drafted the best G at 21 Id be pretty pleased, but I also think the writing is on the wall that we'll go to war with what we have. And we do have enough other needs to justify ignoring OL until after the third round.

[Squirrlnutz]

I love me some Whit, but in complete honesty the eyeball test tells me he gives up a bit too much ground in pass pro. Blocking a guy completely and blocking him technically but finishing the play shoulder to shoulder with your QB forcing him to release the ball a bit earlier than desired play after play have a cumulative effect IMO.

No doubt he's our LT for the foreseeable future, but if I'm going out on a limb, I predict he goes from top notch to being ridden out of town almost overnight when he can't hold off those extra 14 inches anymore.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1359693948' post='1212400']
I love me some Whit, but in complete honesty the eyeball test tells me he gives up a bit too much ground in pass pro. Blocking a guy completely and blocking him technically but finishing the play shoulder to shoulder with your QB forcing him to release the ball a bit earlier than desired play after play have a cumulative effect IMO.

No doubt he's our LT for the foreseeable future, but if I'm going out on a limb, I predict he goes from top notch to being ridden out of town almost overnight when he can't hold off those extra 14 inches anymore.
[/quote]

I'd like to see how much the knee cleanup helps. He hasn't been his usual self the last two years, but he's still been pretty damn good and it seems coaches and players around the league finally notice, giving him some pro bowl love.

IMO he has at least 2 more solid years at LT. 3 years left on his contract. I think next year with the likely loss of Collins they'll take an early LT and start grooming Whit's replacement.

[bengals7833]

I like whit also. I think he is above average but to call him a stud is laughable. If he is a stud why did all big running plays come behind smith and zeitler. Honestly think about it can you remember any big plays in the running game when ran behind whit I can't

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359722546' post='1212411']
I'd like to see how much the knee cleanup helps. He hasn't been his usual self the last two years, but he's still been pretty damn good and it seems coaches and players around the league finally notice, giving him some pro bowl love.

IMO he has at least 2 more solid years at LT. 3 years left on his contract. I think next year with the likely loss of Collins they'll start grooming Whit's replacement.
[/quote]

Agreed

[quote name='bengals7833' timestamp='1359725905' post='1212419']
I like whit also. I think he is above average but to call him a stud is laughable. If he is a stud why did all big running plays come behind smith and zeitler. Honestly think about it can you remember any big plays in the running game when ran behind whit I can't
[/quote]

in 2009 they ran behind him almost exclusively, but as 1181 said, his run blocking hasn't been the same since.

[bubba]

[quote name='mhfinks' timestamp='1359660984' post='1212308']
I think our unrest is not at WR... i think giving Andy more time would help... giving Andy a Back that can get him out of trouble would help... WR #2 or #1 Cant help if you can't get them the ball... The OL needs help... I think you have to resign Andre... I think you have to let cook go...and play robinson... cook is a 2.5mil year guy... Zet.. did great.. boling is the weak link - LT whit... draft his replacement and have a strong back up... so i think G, OT, is hot in the top three picks followed by LB and S....the RB position i believe is deep in this draft so getting one in the third should be an option.... as for WR... late 6th.. FA... undrafted... but not in the first three picks....
[/quote]
Agree. Never go wrong drafting linemen

[bubba]

Plus if the line isn't dominate. The running game doesn't work no matter the back. The qb has no time to throw. And the best WR weapons r useless cause we have no time to throw.

[spicoli]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1359693401' post='1212398']
It's also been outlined 1000 times why there's no fn way we draft a center.

[/quote]

I think everyone agrees that C is easily one of the most important positions on the offensive side of the ball right? so how is this team ever going to get on top of this division and stay on top of it when they're running the 4th best C within the division out there on a weekly basis?

if this team is ever going to take the next step, they need to establish a dominant o-line...that's never going to happen with Kyle Cook or Trevor Robinson in there.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='spicoli' timestamp='1359728638' post='1212434']


I think everyone agrees that C is easily one of the most important positions on the offensive side of the ball right? so how is this team ever going to get on top of this division and stay on top of it when they're running the 4th best C within the division out there on a weekly basis?

if this team is ever going to take the next step, they need to establish a dominant o-line...that's never going to happen with Kyle Cook or Trevor Robinson in there.
[/quote]
4th best in the division is debatable and his ranking in the division means squat.

He was a fine player before his injury. Pro bowler? No. But you don't need to have a pro bowler or 1st round pick at every line spot to have a good line.

Robinson played very well as a rookie who changed positions. Logic says he'll get better.

So we have 2 capable starters. One a solid vet, the other a young promising guy

[Jamie_B]

We're looking at likely drafting Whit's replacement in the next 3 years just due to his age, but that isnt happening this year.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1359731650' post='1212445']
4th best in the division is debatable and his ranking in the division means squat.

He was a fine player before his injury. Pro bowler? No. But you don't need to have a pro bowler or 1st round pick at every line spot to have a good line.

Robinson played very well as a rookie who changed positions. Logic says he'll get better.

So we have 2 capable starters. One a solid vet, the other a young promising guy
[/quote]

yea, its like saying RGIII is the 3rd best QB in his division, as if it were a bad thing.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1359731744' post='1212447']
We're looking at likely drafting Whit's replacement in the next 3 years just due to his age, but that isnt happening this year.
[/quote]

Yup. Unless its a guy in like the 4th or later that they'd try to groom.

[Jason]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359731882' post='1212450']
Yup. Unless its a guy in like the 4th or later that they'd try to groom.
[/quote]

I could see Reid Fragel being that guy. He will likely be available in 3 to 5, and he has tons of upside. While he gets a little bigger and a lot stronger he could take over Roland's role as tackle playing TE with the advantage of actually having played TE he could catch a tackle eligible pass.

[spicoli]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359731843' post='1212448']
yea, its like saying RGIII is the 3rd best QB in his division, as if it were a bad thing.
[/quote]

Well Cincinnati has the 3rd best QB in their division.....the problem however is that they've also got the 4th best C and the 4th best RB. They'll never take the next step unless that changes.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1359731882' post='1212450']
Yup. Unless its a guy in like the 4th or later that they'd try to groom.
[/quote]

I know you can find gems in later rounds, but as important as the LT position is I'd be more inclined to spend a 1st round pick on it.

[mhfinks]

[quote name='spicoli' timestamp='1359728638' post='1212434']
I think everyone agrees that C is easily one of the most important positions on the offensive side of the ball right? so how is this team ever going to get on top of this division and stay on top of it when they're running the 4th best C within the division out there on a weekly basis?

if this team is ever going to take the next step, they need to establish a dominant o-line...that's never going to happen with Kyle Cook or Trevor Robinson in there.
[/quote]

I wanna go back here - correct me if im wrong but our winning streak started and ended with Robinson at C... Jeff Faine went out hurt... Robinson started.... Cook came back and Robinson went out.... our running game went thru the roof with Robinson at C.... I think he is extreamly Ok in there

[spicoli]

[quote name='mhfinks' timestamp='1359733454' post='1212458']
I think he is extreamly Ok in there
[/quote]

you think he is? well why do think they were in such a hurry to get an unhealthy Cook back in there then?

[JC]

[quote name='spicoli' timestamp='1359733645' post='1212461']
you think he is? well why do think they were in such a hurry to get an unhealthy Cook back in there then?
[/quote]
I think Mr. Alexander has a tendency to be married to certain guys, with Cook being one of them.

Obviously Livings over Mathis was baffling, and I thought he had Roland in at RT for Andre over AC for awhile.

[bubba]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1359731843' post='1212448']


yea, its like saying RGIII is the 3rd best QB in his division, as if it were a bad thing.
[/quote]
But he isn't 3rd best. I don't understand why anyone would be against upgrading at ANY position. I'm not
I'm not saying 1st round but I would love it if we draft a center at some point. If it is the 1st round that's fine 2