What should we be paying Andre? (He reportedly wants $9 million per year)

[gatorclaws]

To be fair, aside from a single unconfirmed press report, we have no idea if Andre's demands are reasonable or not.

 

I think it's fair to assume the demands are unreasonable when he's still a free agent. It's not like the Bengals are the only team allowed to sign him.

[Oldcat]

I think it's fair to assume the demands are unreasonable when he's still a free agent. It's not like the Bengals are the only team allowed to sign him.

 

Fair enough.  I just get a little leery from time to time at building up outrage over Florio's or other media speculation.  It isn't like anyone vets those guys.

 

Aside from the seeming fact that this agent spends a lot of time out of contact with his clients, I don't have any other answers myself.

[cinci1fan1]

I think it's fair to assume the demands are unreasonable when he's still a free agent. It's not like the Bengals are the only team allowed to sign him.

 

x2. It's been weeks since he is on the market and not a single team has even showed remote interest to bring him for a visit. The entire league has a good picture of who he is with his obvious issues from the past including the gun charge this offseason. I think at this point unless the bengals significantly up the offer he is going to wait until after the draft and may be training camp and sign a 1 year deal with a team that has an injury. Unless someone smacks both him and his agent on their head it is where this seems to be heading.

[BigwormWhoDey]

reports are saying the bengals are losing interest in him! I can't blame them I say draft someone to take his spot in the first 3 rounds. If all else fails then you have to play AC at RT.

[EnglishBengal]

Really disappointed in this whole situation right now.  FIrst he comes here as an overweight fuckwit and then takes 2 years to get his act together.  He then proves his critics wrong by working hard and losing weight and playing some damn good 'ball.  Only for this.  Is the agent at fault here or is it Andre getting a big head and being an ass?

[sparky151]

I think the agent clearly overestimated the market. He's probably telling Andre it's collusion that nobody else has made an offer. Now the agent is scrambling to find a team with the need for a starting RT, who has the cap space to spend, whose scheme calls for straight ahead drive blockers instead of nimble zone blockers, and which isn't in a state or city with strict gun laws. And the team would have to prefer Andre to one of the cheaper alternatives. My view is that team doesn't exist outside Cincinnati.

[scharm]

Really disappointed in this whole situation right now.  FIrst he comes here as an overweight fuckwit and then takes 2 years to get his act together.  He then proves his critics wrong by working hard and losing weight and playing some damn good 'ball.  Only for this.  Is the agent at fault here or is it Andre getting a big head and being an ass?

 

I won't be disappointed until we use a high pick on RT and that starts them down the path of replacing him.

 

While Andre is at fault you got to start to wonder why we weren't in on some of the younger top RTs in FA?   Or some other FAs at different positions?

 

It seems like we were holding this room for Andre to come get it and now thay might not happen.   I will be less disappointed if the replace Andre with a rookie and that cap space goes to acquire some FAs.

[The PatternMaster]

To be fair, aside from a single unconfirmed press report, we have no idea if Andre's demands are reasonable or not.

 

Before FA started Andre stated he wanted atleast 9 million per yr, the only player at OT that got that kind of money is Jake Long who has been to 4 Pro Bowls and been named All Pro twice after getting drafted #1 overall in 2008. Smith is not as good as Long, Smith has a had 1 good season in which he still gave up 7.5 sacks(the most of any olineman on the team). I would say for Smith and his agent to say that you will command 9 million per year in the FA is unreasonable and the GM's around the NFL think so as well.

[The PatternMaster]

Here's a good article from 2009 about Smith's first contract, you know the one were he held out for months only to sign a bad deal and then get hurt...

 

 

Criticism of Keels for Smith deal is over the top

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 25, 2009, 12:30 PM EDT

 

Recently, Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports cobbled together an item that fiercely criticizes the contract signed by Bengals right tackle Andre Smith — with specific criticism of Smith’s agent, Alvin Keels.

 

Cole surprisingly compared the contract to the one negotiated a decade ago by Master P’s agency for Saints running back Ricky Williams, and Cole called Smith’s deal a potential “career stopper” for Keels.

 

Ever since I first saw it last week, Cole’s column has bothered me, for several reasons. First, it represents a grossly one-sided view of the situation. (There’s no indication that Cole tried to contact Keels. Cole told us by phone that he called Keels’ office three times, and that Keels did not call back.)

 

Second, the column reeks (as Jason Whitlock of FOXSports.com recently pointed out) of propaganda being pushed by rival agents. And that’s an incredibly common dynamic in the cut throat world of NFL player agents, where eventually someone’s throat really could be cut.

 

Right now, they’re all lining up potential clients for the 2010 draft, and many agents will be carrying around a laminated copy of Cole’s article for presentation to anyone considering the possibility of hiring Keels.

 

Third, I personally know and like and respect Cole, and I know that he’s smart enough to realize that he was being played. (That said, Cole told me by phone that the column “was not agent driven.” That said, some in the audience might feel otherwise.)

 

When the basic numbers initially came out regarding the contract signed by Smith, we compared it to the deals given to the player draft directly in front of Smith (Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez) and directly behind Smith (Raiders receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey).

 

Ultimately, the Bengals did indeed avoid certain aspects of the slotting process, with portions of Smith’s deal paling in comparison to the contract signed by Heyward-Bey.

As we also pointed out, other aspects of the deal fit the slot. For example, the average annual guaranteed money on the four-year deal ($5.25 million) fits between the Sanchez ($5.6 million) and Heyward-Bey ($4.6 million) payouts.

 

And though the contract ultimately looks a lot like the five-year deal given to No. 6 overall pick Vernon Gholston in 2008 with a sixth year tacked onto it, we’ve seen the entire breakdown, and it’s better than some might think.

 

For example, although the deal has been described as a four-year contract that the Bengals can stretch into a six-year deal, they key is that they can’t wait until after the fourth year to make a decision.

 

Under the deal, the Bengals must decide after two seasons whether to invoke the option for years five and six, by paying a $4.75 million option bonus.

If they do, easily reachable playing-time triggers make the contract into a six-year, $42 million deal, with a lot of the money coming early in the life of the contract.

Indeed, despite the total-dollar similarities to Gholston’s contract, Smith will pocket nearly 20 percent more than Gholston over the first three years (if the option is exercised) and 13.5 percent more than Gholston over four (again, if the option is exercised).

 

There’s no denying that Heyward-Bey got a deal that, in most respects, is better than Smith’s. But while some can say that this occurred because the Bengals violated the slotting process by paying too little, others might say the Raiders violated the slotting process by paying too much.

 

If, for example, the 49ers were to decide to cave in to the demands of receiver Michael Crabtree and give him the Heyward-Bey deal in the No. 10 slot, would the agents who represented the eighth and ninth picks be subject to intense criticism? The difference in Smith’s case is that the Raiders overpaid on the slot before the Bengals and Smith did their deal.

 

That said, the Smith deal isn’t great. And calling it good might be a stretch. But we think it’s grossly unfair to compare Keels’ work on Smith’s behalf to the Master P cluster eff that was negotiated for Ricky Williams.

 

The mere comparison of the agents implies strongly that Keels is regarded as an inexperienced slapdick, which simply isn’t true. He did his first top-ten deal in 2001, on behalf of receiver Koren Robinson. And he has negotiated two player-friendly contracts for cornerback DeAngelo Hall (one with the Raiders and one with the Redskins), along with contracts for running back Larry Johnson, running back LaMont Jordan, and safety Gibril Wilson.

 

Also, the players in the two cases are far different. In 1999, Ricky Williams had tons of leverage; the Saints gave up an entire draft to get him. And, still, Williams put his name on the dotted line of a dreadful incentive-driven deal in May, a month after being picked.

 

Smith, in contrast, was regarded a reach at No. 6, thanks to a string of erratic pre-draft incidents, including suspension from the Sugar Bowl, an unexpected departure from the Scouting Combine, and a watch-it-wiggle, see-it-jiggle 40-yard dash at his Pro Day workout. We also were troubled by the appearance that Smith fired Keels before the draft and hired Priority Sports in order to nail down a top-ten spot, only to fire Priority and re-hire Keels after the draft.

 

Then, Smith held out and bulked up.

 

And Cole, in hindsight, concedes that point. “I will admit [Keels] was stuck in a bad situation,” Cole said.

As we’ve heard it, the Bengals were sufficiently alarmed by Smith’s pre-draft weight gain to consider the possibility of simply not signing him at all. Though such a move would have surely triggered intense criticism, the Bengals have seen plenty of first-round picks fail following the receipt of millions of dollars. At a time when there’s increased chatter of a team passing their right to make a first-round pick, would it be so out of the question — especially for a team like the Bengals — to essentially pass on the pick after the fact?

 

Even if the Bengals would never have flat-out rescinded the rights to Smith, they could have accomplished the same thing by putting an objectively significant but, in context, ridiculously low number on the table, refusing to budge, and accepting the reality that Smith would never take it.

 

Regardless of whether the Bengals would have assumed such an extreme bargaining position, the reality is that Ricky Williams and Andre Smith presented two very different situations. In Williams’ case, his agent bungled the opportunity to cash in. In Smith’s case, Keels was forced to make chicken salad with one hand, and to keep Smith from eating it with the other.

 

I realize that cynics in the crowd will think that I’m posting this at the behest of Keels, or possibly as payback for past favors that he has done for PFT. (Or as a down payment on future consideration.) Hell, I’d think the same thing if Mortensen or Schefter or Glazer or someone else were taking the time to throw Keels a bone.

 

But whether anyone will believe it, I’m compelled to say it: I decided to go to bat for Keels on this one because I know how this kind of one-sided article can be used to unfairly hurt an agent’s business interests. Those tactics are wrong, so speaking out was simply the right thing to do.

 

You may now resume watching PFTV segments. After you wake up.

 

So you see that there is history with Smith that is not good and that is why this situation is taking longer than it should.

[Oldcat]

Before FA started Andre stated he wanted atleast 9 million per yr, the only player at OT that got that kind of money is Jake Long who has been to 4 Pro Bowls and been named All Pro twice after getting drafted #1 overall in 2008. Smith is not as good as Long, Smith has a had 1 good season in which he still gave up 7.5 sacks(the most of any olineman on the team). I would say for Smith and his agent to say that you will command 9 million per year in the FA is unreasonable and the GM's around the NFL think so as well.

 

That's what Pro Football Talk said he wanted.  Did anyone put a quote in his mouth saying anything?  All the other sources are quoting PFT.

 

As for the rest, we all know that.

[Le Tigre]

LINK!!

 

 

reports are saying the bengals are losing interest in him! I can't blame them I say draft someone to take his spot in the first 3 rounds. If all else fails then you have to play AC at RT.

[Bengals1181]

LINK!!

 

just PFT rumor mill.

[The PatternMaster]

That's what Pro Football Talk said he wanted.  Did anyone put a quote in his mouth saying anything?  All the other sources are quoting PFT.

 

As for the rest, we all know that.

 

Actually PFT quoted Joe Reedy, who wrote a blog on March 2nd saying that was the amount Smith was looking for in FA.

 

The Cincinnati Enquirer’s Joe Reedy talked to agents and contract advisers at the NFL Scouting Combine and feels Smith will command a deal in the $ 8.5-$ 9.5 million per year range.

[Oldcat]

Actually PFT quoted Joe Reedy, who wrote a blog on March 2nd saying that was the amount Smith was looking for in FA.

 

So Reedy's feelings are the unimpeachable source? 

 

There's my point in a nutshell...

[happyrid]

 
I won't be disappointed until we use a high pick on RT and that starts them down the path of replacing him.
 
While Andre is at fault you got to start to wonder why we weren't in on some of the younger top RTs in FA?   Or some other FAs at different positions?
 
It seems like we were holding this room for Andre to come get it and now thay might not happen.   I will be less disappointed if the replace Andre with a rookie and that cap space goes to acquire some FAs.

At this point, there really is not all that much left out there in terms of positions we need. FA is pretty well picked over.

The one exception might be LB. If we can't get a deal done with Andre, maybe they go and spend a few million on a starting LB like a Daryl Smith. Or Thomas Howard. Or Carlos Dansby. They could probably even sign 2 of them and let them compete. Then they could use the early pick that many are assuming will be used on a LB and just use it on a RT instead.

At RB, WR and S, the FA pickings are pretty slim and it is kind of the draft or bust in terms of trying to improve at those 3 spots in my opinion.

[The PatternMaster]

So Reedy's feelings are the unimpeachable source? 

 

There's my point in a nutshell...

 

Well it's been reported that Smith wanted this much for the past few months and his agent hasn't said anything differently so why would you not believe what Reedy is saying. As a matter of fact the only thing I've read is that his agent said that the Bengals deal stinks..atleast that was Peter King reported.

[Oldcat]

Well it's been reported that Smith wanted this much for the past few months and his agent hasn't said anything differently so why would you not believe what Reedy is saying. As a matter of fact the only thing I've read is that his agent said that the Bengals deal stinks..atleast that was Peter King reported.

 

I don't disbelieve it...but I don't take it to necessarily be the current status or even accurate at the time, it might have just been agent posturing.

 

I also don't put much status into anything Peter King, who hates the team poisonously, says from an invisible and unnamed source.

 

You just need to take into account how few the facts are that you are basing your construction of events and thus Andre Smith's character or the lack of it.

[|westside bengal|]

I always felt that Andre had a chip on his shoulder over his rookie deal.  And that could be slowing things down.  Andre is going to fight for every nickel he thinks he deserves.

 

My guess its not the total dollar amount that is being negotiated.  That has pretty much been set by the other free agents and their deals.

 

I am thinking if there is really a hold up its because of how the contract is structured.  Andre is probably wanting a larger signing bonus and/or more guaranteed money than the Bengals want to give.

[alleycat]

The one thing we can infer from all of this the relative nature of the divide.  We can't make qualitative judgments about the numbers on the table.  But what we can do is make the assumption that an agent is going to do his job, and the moment he has an offer from the Bengals he's going to call the other teams around the league (particularly those needing RT's) and see if he can get a better (or, if there's some rancor, equivalent) deal.

 

And all we get are crickets.

 

We can therefore only assume, correctly, that either the Bengals have given him his best offer, an offer he is unwilling to take, or there is some other, non-financial issue that is complicating things.  These could include his legal issue, his weight, etc., but if any of those are substantive enough to be obstacles for one team (i.e. us) they would almost certainly be for the others.

 

I think we can take Marvin's comment to Andre at face value.  He needs to accept that the market is what it is and work his butt off to get the windfall with his next deal.  He's got plenty of opportunity left to do that, provided he has the drive.  

 

And therein could lie the real rub.  Andre may not have that drive, may know this better than anyone, and so wants to cash in now.  All of which would make him come across like a baby.  This is of course speculation. But one thing we do know is that we don't shy away from taking babies, and we've done a decent job lately helping several of them grow up.

[Jeb]

Tyson Clabo is available.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3095/tyson-clabo

[EnglishBengal]

Maybe if Mike Brown renegotiates a fresh offer which includes free food coupons to Fat Burger, a deal may finally get done.

[Jason]

Maybe if Mike Brown renegotiates a fresh offer which includes free food coupons to Fat Burger, a deal may finally get done.

 

Calling Willie Anderson!

 

 

 

:lol:

[HairOnFire]

Tyson Clabo is available.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3095/tyson-clabo

 

That's the tire they should be kicking.

 

And they should make sure everyone sees 'em kicking.

 

Link says he was due to make 4.5 million in each of the next three seasons.

[Jeb]

That's the tire they should be kicking.

 

And they should make sure everyone sees 'em kicking.

 

Link says he was due to make 4.5 million in each of the next three seasons.

 

We can afford to go after both tackles so why not sign Clabo now and leave the offer on the table to Smith?

 

Btw, ...we keep going to the playoffs, ...which makes us a desirable place to sign if you're a player, ...we can immediately sign Clabo, ...no problem.

[BengalBuck]

Tyson Clabo is available.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3095/tyson-clabo

 

Not that it matters what I think, but that works for me. I am beginning to tire of Smith and his agent. Draft a RT too.