scharm Posted March 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Andre thinks he his the Romo of right tackles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 If you had to lose one... Who would it be? Andy Dalton? A.J. Green? Geno Atkins? Carlos Dunlap? Micael Johnson? Andre Smith? ...to me the answer is obvious. Give millions to a RT with a history of weight problems and foot problems because of said weight problems or pay two players(obviously Atkins, Green) that are easily top five in the league at their positions if not the best. I am not and will not lose any sleep if we lose Andre.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 This is a straw man argument. I get the hypotheticals, but who is to say every one of them can't be re-signed? Isn't this the purpose for how this entire off season has been progressing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 If you had to lose one... Who would it be? Andy Dalton? A.J. Green? Geno Atkins? Carlos Dunlap? Micael Johnson? Andre Smith? ...to me the answer is obvious. Give millions to a RT with a history of weight problems and foot problems because of said weight problems or pay two players(obviously Atkins, Green) that are easily top five in the league at their positions if not the best. I am not and will not lose any sleep if we lose Andre.... I think the Bengals should be able to keep all of them. However, I am fine with them having a line in the sand that they won't cross with Andre. Hopefully they can get a deal done, but if his demands end up being more than they are willing to pay, I won't be mad at them for standing their ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 If you had to lose one... Who would it be? Andy Dalton? A.J. Green? Geno Atkins? Carlos Dunlap? Micael Johnson? Andre Smith? ...to me the answer is obvious. Give millions to a RT with a history of weight problems and foot problems because of said weight problems or pay two players(obviously Atkins, Green) that are easily top five in the league at their positions if not the best. I am not and will not lose any sleep if we lose Andre.... Given the smart structuring of contracts and use of the cap, they should be able to keep them all. I won't be overly upset if Andre isn't signed but my preference is that a fair deal is struck with him so that we don't need to use a high draft pick to fill a huge hole. This team will continually get better by adding more talent via the draft through BPA and build for the future vs. being forced to fill holes and replace talent that leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 If you had to lose one... Who would it be? Andy Dalton? A.J. Green? Geno Atkins? Carlos Dunlap? Micael Johnson? Andre Smith? ...to me the answer is obvious. Give millions to a RT with a history of weight problems and foot problems because of said weight problems or pay two players(obviously Atkins, Green) that are easily top five in the league at their positions if not the best. I am not and will not lose any sleep if we lose Andre.... In order of importance to the team: 1) Geno and AJ - can't lose either. 2) Carlos Dunlap - doesn't have the stats but he's the difference maker 3) Andy Dalton - continuity, as much as anything. I think we should keep building a championship team around him, and if he doesn't work out the new guy will have all the pieces in place. 4) Michael Johnson 5) Andre Smith I might have had the last two reversed a month or two ago, but the market has so clearly devalued RT's while valuing DE's that Andre is easier to lose. That said, they are both the most replaceable players from this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 In order of importance to the team: 1) Geno and AJ - can't lose either. 2) Carlos Dunlap - doesn't have the stats but he's the difference maker 3) Andy Dalton - continuity, as much as anything. I think we should keep building a championship team around him, and if he doesn't work out the new guy will have all the pieces in place. 4) Michael Johnson 5) Andre Smith I might have had the last two reversed a month or two ago, but the market has so clearly devalued RT's while valuing DE's that Andre is easier to lose. That said, they are both the most replaceable players from this list. totally agree we better not lose Geno, Dunlap or Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 In order of importance to the team: 1) Geno and AJ - can't lose either. 2) Carlos Dunlap - doesn't have the stats but he's the difference maker 3) Andy Dalton - continuity, as much as anything. I think we should keep building a championship team around him, and if he doesn't work out the new guy will have all the pieces in place. 4) Michael Johnson 5) Andre Smith I might have had the last two reversed a month or two ago, but the market has so clearly devalued RT's while valuing DE's that Andre is easier to lose. That said, they are both the most replaceable players from this list. Looks about right to me. I think MJ and Dunlap are pretty close though. I agree that Dunlap is a little bit more dynamic and probably has a higher upside if he keeps improving. In terms of reliability, consistency, durability, etc. the edge definitely goes to MJ. Dunlap has had a really hard time staying healthy in his first 3 years. I don't think he came out of any of the 3 training camps healthy and ready to start the season. He also doesn't play 80%+ of the snaps like MJ does. I think in terms of the big picture, the biggest priority now is to get all 3 of the D Linemen locked up long term. A great D Line is the key to a good defense and our D Line has turned into a great unit. Keeping the group together long term (hopefully Still and Thompson end up being good) pretty much ensures that we will have a very good defense very year which gives you a great chance of making the playoffs. If the Bengals can also hit on a good young Safety and a good young LB in the draft, the entire D would be basically in place for the next 2 to 4 years. I think the second biggest priority is to figure out how to put a top 10 offense together and get it done in FA and the draft. Unlike on D, where the answers look pretty obvious, there are a lot more unknowns on offense. Is Andy the long term answer? If he is, do you build your offense around him with a lot of passing game weapons? Or do you focus on building a great running game and have Andy be more of a game manager type? Is Andy more of an Alex Smith type who you can win with, but ideally like to upgrade from at some point? They need to figure out these questions over the next year or so and make moves accordingly. If you really want to focus on the run, then you better keep Andre and think about trying to upgrade at LG. Also need to add a stud RB. If you think he can develop like Flacvo, then you need to continue to surround him with weapons and get a long term deal in place. Kind of a rambling post, but in short, I think with the D, you have the answers and nearly all of the pieces in place. It is all about keeping your own and adding those final 1 or 2 missing pieces. On O, there are a ton of question marks. You have a lot of really good pieces, but it is still up in the air as to how they fit together and what pieces are still needed to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I wish Michael Johnson had a less generic name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I feel Geno Carlos and AJ are playmakers, we need them mos def! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 In order of importance to the team: 1) Geno and AJ - can't lose either. 2) Carlos Dunlap - doesn't have the stats but he's the difference maker 3) Andy Dalton - continuity, as much as anything. I think we should keep building a championship team around him, and if he doesn't work out the new guy will have all the pieces in place. 4) Michael Johnson 5) Andre Smith I might have had the last two reversed a month or two ago, but the market has so clearly devalued RT's while valuing DE's that Andre is easier to lose. That said, they are both the most replaceable players from this list. Gresh is more important than Andre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I would have MJ above Dunlap. Dunlap is hurt a lot MJ always plays. And I think now that he has put on the weight and can focus on DE instead of worrying about OLB he's just going to keep getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I would have MJ above Dunlap. Dunlap is hurt a lot MJ always plays. And I think now that he has put on the weight and can focus on DE instead of worrying about OLB he's just going to keep getting better. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthPaw Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Per the Cincinnati Enquirer, "indications are" free agent RT Andre Smith and the Bengals are "not close" to a new deal at the moment. There's no telling when a deal between the two sides will get done, but it's hard to imagine Smith not being back with the Bengals in 2013. Getting Smith locked up is Cincinnati's final task to knock out before the draft in three-plus weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Per the Cincinnati Enquirer, "indications are" free agent RT Andre Smith and the Bengals are "not close" to a new deal at the moment. There's no telling when a deal between the two sides will get done, but it's hard to imagine Smith not being back with the Bengals in 2013. Getting Smith locked up is Cincinnati's final task to knock out before the draft in three-plus weeks. What a joke. We don't even know what the Bengals' offer is, but I'll have to side with them on this one. Anything beyond what the market has set is charity from the team to Andre at this point. It also seems in his long-term interests to get with a team ASAP, as he has to think about keeping his fat ass in shape. I really want him back, but from a value perspective the team may just be deciding that the extra 5M per year (or whatever it is), just isn't worth it for a guy who hasn't shown full commitment. At some point, you are setting an example for the rest of your team, and I think nothing speaks to that more than who they decided to tag between he and MJ. One guy is high-effort, and super dedicated to the team concept (our D-Line rotation speaks to that in volumes, as is their collective body language when one of them makes a sack) and constant improvement. The other guy is doing what he has to to get by, and then asking what's in it for me. I have no trouble with fighting for the best deal, and holding out if you have to, but his earlier 9M figure, coupled with an unwillingness to talk simply makes him look out of touch with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 What a joke. We don't even know what the Bengals' offer is, but I'll have to side with them on this one. Anything beyond what the market has set is charity from the team to Andre at this point. It also seems in his long-term interests to get with a team ASAP, as he has to think about keeping his fat ass in shape. I really want him back, but from a value perspective the team may just be deciding that the extra 5M per year (or whatever it is), just isn't worth it for a guy who hasn't shown full commitment. At some point, you are setting an example for the rest of your team, and I think nothing speaks to that more than who they decided to tag between he and MJ. One guy is high-effort, and super dedicated to the team concept (our D-Line rotation speaks to that in volumes, as is their collective body language when one of them makes a sack) and constant improvement. The other guy is doing what he has to to get by, and then asking what's in it for me. I have no trouble with fighting for the best deal, and holding out if you have to, but his earlier 9M figure, coupled with an unwillingness to talk simply makes him look out of touch with reality. Hobsons latest article indicated that the 2 sides have been exchanging offers. I think there is talk going on and I would guess they aren't really that far away. I think we will know something within the next 4 or 5 days. Then again, I never thought it would take anywhere near three weeks, so I could be very wrong about the timetable still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hobsons latest article indicated that the 2 sides have been exchanging offers. I think there is talk going on and I would guess they aren't really that far away. I think we will know something within the next 4 or 5 days. Then again, I never thought it would take anywhere near three weeks, so I could be very wrong about the timetable still. One day you said you had a feeling "today" was gonna be the day. I believed it!!! Also, I'm ready to move on without Andre. You have guys coming back to be a part of something special, guys taking less money... just really rubs me the wrong way. This is no doubt putting a damper on our draft prep. I wish the dude would sign or just hit the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 The Bengals have stated ad nauseum that Andre is their #1 target in FA. Unless his agent is a complete doofus...or Andre doesn't look to get the highest second contract he can get ( well armed with the aforementioned strategic giveaway the Bengals laid in his lap), then this is playing out exactly like I thought it would. It will be done soon...and both sides know it. And lol @ this "commitment" stuff. This is a damn business. Every one of our Sunday heros are just highly-paid mercenaries. They come together, wear the same colors, go through the ersatz rah-rah/go team schlock...but if it weren't for the color green, their "commitment" would be non-existent. Fans have their own agendas...and timetables. The mercenaries don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 If Newman was such a mercenary he would've gone to Oakland. Of course money is a motivator but this is a team sport and a grueling one at that. The ones that are just in it for the paycheck rarely excel; it's as true for football as any other profession. Maybe more so as all that extraneous BS goes out the window pretty fast the first time they get hit. I think there's more to our DL generating a relentless pass rush than the $ to be earned from sack incentives. The guys lined up across from them are millionaires, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Blake Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 This really isn't surprising. This contract negotiation had nightmare written all over it from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I feel like we've all watched this movie before. Like four years ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 If Newman was such a mercenary he would've gone to Oakland. Of course money is a motivator but this is a team sport and a grueling one at that. The ones that are just in it for the paycheck rarely excel; it's as true for football as any other profession. Maybe more so as all that extraneous BS goes out the window pretty fast the first time they get hit. I think there's more to our DL generating a relentless pass rush than the $ to be earned from sack incentives. The guys lined up across from them are millionaires, too. Exactly. For how many years did we watch members of the Patriots take discounts to stay with the team? Of course, that doesn't seem to be happening much anymore, but their shot at the title now seems more remote. The fact that we're on the upswing of seeing players take these discounts bodes well for us. It also makes those players that don't stick out like a sore (infected?) thumb. No one is asking Andre to take less than he deserves, but a little reality check would be nice - if for nothing else, to make it easier to root for a group of guys who, in this day and age of mercenaries, actually care to value something slightly less tangible even more than money. The samurai is a mercenary, but his honor has even greater value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I feel like we've all watched this movie before. Like four years ago.. X2. I just hope if/when he signs, he comes to camp in shape, unlike the last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboi Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 This really isn't surprising. This contract negotiation had nightmare written all over it from the get go. if the Bengals take an offensive tackle in this year draft with 21st pick or later on in the draft,Andre smith may very well be out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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