Coaching out of desperation when you are clearly the better team...

[Bengals1181]

Lost in all of this somewhere...

 

End of the first half.

We have the ball.

Time on the clock and time outs left.

 

Marv elects to walk around like a heard of cattle

letting time run off until we could go into the locker room.

Marv and clock management again.

 

At least TRY to get into filed goal range.

Its not like we did not have time and time outs.

Doing nothing guarantees nothing will happen.

But at least TRY.

 

All things considered, three points at the end of the half

would have made things a hell of a lot different if the second

half played out as it did.

 

Whatever... onward to the playoffs.

 

 

there were a lot of questionable coaching decisions today, but that wasn't one of them.

 

 

The Bengals would have been going roughly 80yds INTO the wind with less than a minute and no timeouts.

 

There was far more to lose than gain in that situation.

[Bengals1181]

Long fg, ineffective run game, ravens offense playing awful; punt the ball and pin them deep. Get a stop and get good field position. Too much risk for sudden death.

 

 

I agree, though wonder if they had MIami in their heads, when it backfired.  

[JC]

 

 

there were a lot of questionable coaching decisions today, but that wasn't one of them.

 

 

The Bengals would have been going roughly 80yds INTO the wind with less than a minute and no timeouts.

 

There was far more to lose than gain in that situation.

 

With the way the offense was playing, I do not know how anyone could be upset with that decision.  It had turnover written all over it.

[Tigris]

How many AFC North battles had Marvin been involved in?

Field position!
Field position!
Field position!

QB sneak on 4th and more than a yard in the first quarter? I know the Ravens D is not what it use to be, but they aren't mincemeat either?


Then you don't punt in OT when the Ravens have not been able to move the ball all day? Are you fucking kidding me?!?!

Dalton didn't look good but neither did the strong armed Flacco....

Marvin handed a classic AFC North battle to an inferior team from poor game managent.

I agree kinda...

I liked the first quarter call. Try to set the tone, break their will, show em you aren't scared.

Kneeling the ball at the end of the second - bad call. You have all three timeouts. Run a draw or something and see what happens.

Go for it in OT - bad call. Like you said, defense pitching second half shut out and looked GREAT. You punt that ball and hold em and get it back.... THEN only a FG wins it.

I'm not a ML basher at all, but geez, I think he messed this one up.

[Bengals1181]

Here's where I assign blame:

Dalton: 40%
Receivers: 35%
Gruden: 25%

 

 

I'd go:

 

Dalton 30%

Coaches 30%

Oline 15%

Nugent 15%

Receivers 10%

 

You can harp on the defense for certain plays here and there, but you really can't put much blame on them.

[Bengals1181]

Holy shit, so much fucking doublethink going on in this thread! Marvin is too aggressive for going for those 4th downs! Marvin is a pussy for not going for it at the end of the half!

 

Our whole offense played like dog shit and nobody is absent from the blame. Fuck. I'm pissed off too but the world ain't over. The Bengals still have a 1 game lead and we play the Ratbirds at home in Week 17. If they were going to lose one of these next two, the Ravens is a WAY better loss than the fucking Browns at home. PLUS - Tennessee AND Indy both lost today. 

 

This blows ass but the Bengals aren't losing out. Get it together and beat Cleveland next week.

 

 

normally I love the Bengals being aggressive, but given the weather conditions today I think its fair to question whether the coaching staff was TOO AGGRESSIVE today.  

 

IMO today was a day for running, defense, field position, and short passing game.  They lost field position, couldn't run consistently, and IMO attempted far too many downfield passes given the wind.  Joe Flacco has one of the strongest arms in the league and even he couldn't hit downfield passes today. 

 

It was like the Miami game.  Miami's offense didn't really do anything, they just didn't lose the game for themselves.  Whereas the Miami game the players lost the game, against Baltimore the Bengals outcoached themselves. 

[Tigris]

Marvin Jones is not a natural ball player; not the guy we need. He jumps when he doesn't have to, he fights the ball much too often. I don't care if he had 4 TDs in a game... the guy is a 3rd or 4th receiver, but a good one because he moves well.

Sanu is closer to a #2 than him and Sanu has cost us two games this year.

Eifert gets two hands on a couple passes and drops them both. I don't care if you're diving, you make that catch; you're an NFL receiver. Marvin did the same thing. Make a play, please.

AJ is the only one we have that can make the amazing play somewhat consistently but then he catches the ball, dances, and loses a yard trying to make something out of nothing when he should just push forward for 2-3 yards. And his ball security will never be corrected.

I'm down on the offense right now. Whitworth got owned but Andy seemed to not be able to feel a thing. Just an all around ass kicking. Thank goodness for Mike Zimmer and these guys on defense. Offense needs to turn it around before the division catches up to us.

[cwing]

Let's face it. The offense or lack there of has lost the last 2 games. Some may argue that they are also the reason for the Chicago and Cleveland losses. Despite some very good stats, this offense has been extremely inconsistent with the exception of the 3 game swing in which they looked like world beaters.

[Orange 'n Black]

I liked the first 4th down call and thought they got hosed on the spot. The 2nd was more gutsy but I can't argue with either decision - the defense brought its A game. If Gio doesn't lose 10 yards on that play, that FG opportunity is likely not there. Huber hadn't punted particularly well either.

 

Harping on one call isn't seeing the forest for the trees anyway… one call never decides a football game… the story of today was offensive failure from just about everyone

[Bengals1181]

Marvin Jones is not a natural ball player; not the guy we need. He jumps when he doesn't have to, he fights the ball much too often. I don't care if he had 4 TDs in a game... the guy is a 3rd or 4th receiver, but a good one because he moves well.

Sanu is closer to a #2 than him and Sanu has cost us two games this year.

Eifert gets two hands on a couple passes and drops them both. I don't care if you're diving, you make that catch; you're an NFL receiver. Marvin did the same thing. Make a play, please.

AJ is the only one we have that can make the amazing play somewhat consistently but then he catches the ball, dances, and loses a yard trying to make something out of nothing when he should just push forward for 2-3 yards. And his ball security will never be corrected.

I'm down on the offense right now. Whitworth got owned but Andy seemed to not be able to feel a thing. Just an all around ass kicking. Thank goodness for Mike Zimmer and these guys on defense. Offense needs to turn it around before the division catches up to us.

 

 

I don't see why Marvin Jones can't be a pretty solid #2.  

 

 

Eifert's hands have been a disappointment this year, I'll give you that.  He was said to catch everything, but has had 5-6 drops so far.  

[|kennethmw|]

This shit is funny.

[Jamie_B]

I completely disagree with everything you said.
 
Both decisions to go for it were correct.

I agree that both decisions to go for it were right however the way they went for it on the first one was horrible

[cwing]

there were a lot of questionable coaching decisions today, but that wasn't one of them.
 
 
The Bengals would have been going roughly 80yds INTO the wind with less than a minute and no timeouts.
 
There was far more to lose than gain in that situation.

^ this. No issue with how the first half ended. A turnover at that point ends the game.

[Arkansas Bengal]

Here's what Marvin had to say about going for it on 4th and 1 in the first half:

 

On going for it on fourth down early in the game:
“The official sat on the ball for so long there, and that’s not to our advantage in that situation. So, in hindsight, I probably should have called a timeout there and let us huddle up and do what we were going to do instead of standing there at the line. To look back on it, I kick myself for not calling timeout. Obviously, on fourth and half a yard, I expect us to make it.”

[Bengals1181]

Here's what Marvin had to say about going for it on 4th and 1 in the first half:

 

On going for it on fourth down early in the game:
“The official sat on the ball for so long there, and that’s not to our advantage in that situation. So, in hindsight, I probably should have called a timeout there and let us huddle up and do what we were going to do instead of standing there at the line. To look back on it, I kick myself for not calling timeout. Obviously, on fourth and half a yard, I expect us to make it.”

 

 

the issue was that it was closer to 1 1/2 yards than 1/2 a yard.  I don't mind them going for it, but it was too long for a QB sneak.

[|Bunghole|]

This whole game makes me sick. the way Dierdorf sucked off the Ravens made me ill. "Oh, Flaccid this and Flaccid that" instead of "Hey! The Bengals defense made a great play there". It was enough to make me puke.

 

That said, Dalton and the o-line were absolutely PUTRID. HORRIBLE!!! You cannot win when your line can't block and your QB is in a constant state of frustration.

 

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO disappointed in this loss. We had EVERY opportunity to WIN yet we just kept shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Penalties? OMFG!! Seriously? Are we so undisciplined that we play like that? We GAVE THEM THE GAME, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! HANDED IT TO THEM ON A SILVER PLATTER!!!!

 

I think the stat where we allowed more penalty yards than the Ratbird offense gained somewhere before the end of the first half told the tale. 

 

I want to say more, but I'm afraid it will become gibberish in the end. You guys know what happened. Worst game of Dalton's career, for one.

 

Before I dip let me run this by you all: does anyone believe that bringing in your backup QB, particularly when you have a guy with legs like Johnson's, do you think that's a bad idea? 

 

I seriously wanted Dalton to be benched before the end of the second quarter for a few reasons: Johnson could neutralize that aggressive rush with his legs, Johnson would likely be able to actually hurl the ball downfield in the windy conditions....and maybe it serves a notice to Dalton to get his mind right and come out of the funk after Johnson led the team down the field.

 

I am totally serious. I completely understand why NFL coaches seem reluctant to "usurp" the starter, but we could have done something there with Johnson, I am convinced. Because the goddamn playcalling wasn't doing us any favors. What do you do when a team is overly aggressive in their rushing?

 

SCREENS! Where were those play calls? 

 

I am so unhappy with Dalton, Gruden and the line I will just have to stop. I still don't understand the harm in getting your second string QB involved on a few plays with a designed run option to slow down that rush, especially if you aren't going to call plays for your starter that do the same thing. This is our WORST loss of the year.

[Bengals1181]

This whole game makes me sick. the way Dierdorf sucked off the Ravens made me ill. "Oh, Flaccid this and Flaccid that" instead of "Hey! The Bengals defense made a great play there". It was enough to make me puke.

 

That said, Dalton and the o-line were absolutely PUTRID. HORRIBLE!!! You cannot win when your line can't block and your QB is in a constant state of frustration.

 

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO disappointed in this loss. We had EVERY opportunity to WIN yet we just kept shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Penalties? OMFG!! Seriously? Are we so undisciplined that we play like that? We GAVE THEM THE GAME, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! HANDED IT TO THEM ON A SILVER PLATTER!!!!

 

I think the stat where we allowed more penalty yards than the Ratbird offense gained somewhere before the end of the first half told the tale. 

 

I want to say more, but I'm afraid it will become gibberish in the end. You guys know what happened. Worst game of Dalton's career, for one.

 

Before I dip let me run this by you all: does anyone believe that bringing in your backup QB, particularly when you have a guy with legs like Johnson's, do you think that's a bad idea? 

 

I seriously wanted Dalton to be benched before the end of the second quarter for a few reasons: Johnson could neutralize that aggressive rush with his legs, Johnson would likely be able to actually hurl the ball downfield in the windy conditions....and maybe it serves a notice to Dalton to get his mind right and come out of the funk after Johnson led the team down the field.

 

I am totally serious. I completely understand why NFL coaches seem reluctant to "usurp" the starter, but we could have done something there with Johnson, I am convinced. Because the goddamn playcalling wasn't doing us any favors. What do you do when a team is overly aggressive in their rushing?

 

SCREENS! Where were those play calls? 

 

I am so unhappy with Dalton, Gruden and the line I will just have to stop. I still don't understand the harm in getting your second string QB involved on a few plays with a designed run option to slow down that rush, especially if you aren't going to call plays for your starter that do the same thing. This is our WORST loss of the year.

 

 

IMO the issue was more the lack of short passes.  It just made no sense that they kept firing it downfield into that wind.  Not to mention that quick passes would have helped cut down on the sacks.  I only recall one slant, late in the game.

 

This is game where, IMO, it made sense to put Gio and Hawkins in both slot positions, and just let them abuse linebackers all day on 5yd outs followed by 5-10yds of yac.  

[|Bunghole|]

I agree with you after being seriously reflective and not allowing anger to color my interpretation of the game, but I was also serious about that whole "Letting Josh Johnson play a series or two" thing. I simply cannot understand why a two QB system in college is so damn taboo in the NFL. Seriously. It's not like we'd have Johnson be our new starter...far from it. But with the lack of rush-killing playcalls on the part of Gruden, why not let Josh get his legs in there? Oh no, would he possibly have done WORSE than Dalton? Would it have wrecked Dalton's confidence as the starter? Fuck all that. 

 

I am completely serious. And I am keenly aware of Johnson's limitations as a passer. If I were Gruden, I would have approached Dalton and said something like "Hey kid, things aren't going so well. You are our main man for sure, but we're going to let Josh get in there and try to make some plays. What we're doing isn't working and we're down 17-0."

[MichaelWeston]

I agree with you after being seriously reflective and not allowing anger to color my interpretation of the game, but I was also serious about that whole "Letting Josh Johnson play a series or two" thing. I simply cannot understand why a two QB system in college is so damn taboo in the NFL. Seriously. It's not like we'd have Johnson be our new starter...far from it. But with the lack of rush-killing playcalls on the part of Gruden, why not let Josh get his legs in there? Oh no, would he possibly have done WORSE than Dalton? Would it have wrecked Dalton's confidence as the starter? Fuck all that. 
 
I am completely serious. And I am keenly aware of Johnson's limitations as a passer. If I were Gruden, I would have approached Dalton and said something like "Hey kid, things aren't going so well. You are our main man for sure, but we're going to let Josh get in there and try to make some plays. What we're doing isn't working and we're down 17-0."

I completely agree

[BigDawgBengal]

I can not understand why people keep calling for Johnson to play. They guy is a backup for a reason. Sure he had a nice run or two in preseason but that was against guys that are currently greeting people at Walmart. He can't throw and teams would shut his running game down very quickly. Plus he has fumbled the ball 10 times in his career so I am not sure you want him running any ways. If you add in the preseason games, he has fumbled it 17 times. Not sure why people want him to come in to games and try to make plays with his legs.

 

There is not enough quality starting QBs to go around the league and if Johnson had the ability to play at all, he would be given a chance to compete for a starting job somewhere. He spent last season setting at home and was not signed until week 17. Not one team last year even wanted to give him a chance as a backup. I think that says a lot about his ability if 32 teams pass on him as a backup. The only reason he was signed here was because of his familiarity with Gruden and the Bengals were in need for a cheap backup. I expect the Bengals will replace him in the offseason. In no way should he see the field unless Dalton is hurt or it is a blowout. 

[Bgal]

I don't understand how anyone could watch that game and not factor in the wind and the oline sucking balls. In fact, the defense looked good but I worry about when we have to play a good offensive team in normal weather. It was a day made for defenses. Penalties and not playing ball control were the difference between winning and losing.

[Bengals1181]

I don't understand how anyone could watch that game and not factor in the wind and the oline sucking balls. In fact, the defense looked good but I worry about when we have to play a good offensive team in normal weather. It was a day made for defenses. Penalties and not playing ball control were the difference between winning and losing.

 

 

agree, though I still can't believe the coaches continued to try to throw downfield into the wind.  I get wanting to throw a couple to keep a D honest, but for a team that thrives on a short passing game, they all but ignored it except for the first drive coming out of halftime.

[alleycat]

It's simply shocking to see so many people lay a loss that belongs to the offensive line (and they were offensive) at the quarterback's feet.

Yeah, maybe josh Johnson would have been better, because he could have been getting more yardage escaping the pocket as it continually crumbled.

[WRAPradio]

At least we aren't the colts!!! This board would have a meltdown if we lost to the rams 38-8 and our QB threw 3 INTs and sucked real bad. But he's the next coming of Jesus Christ so people won't talk about the fact that he's VERY VERY average at best.

 

 

Yes Luck had a really bad game, are you suggesting Dalton is better than Luck?

[Bengals1181]

This whole game makes me sick. the way Dierdorf sucked off the Ravens made me ill. "Oh, Flaccid this and Flaccid that" instead of "Hey! The Bengals defense made a great play there". It was enough to make me puke.

 

That said, Dalton and the o-line were absolutely PUTRID. HORRIBLE!!! You cannot win when your line can't block and your QB is in a constant state of frustration.

 

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO disappointed in this loss. We had EVERY opportunity to WIN yet we just kept shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Penalties? OMFG!! Seriously? Are we so undisciplined that we play like that? We GAVE THEM THE GAME, FOR FUCK'S SAKE! HANDED IT TO THEM ON A SILVER PLATTER!!!!

 

I think the stat where we allowed more penalty yards than the Ratbird offense gained somewhere before the end of the first half told the tale. 

 

I want to say more, but I'm afraid it will become gibberish in the end. You guys know what happened. Worst game of Dalton's career, for one.

 

Before I dip let me run this by you all: does anyone believe that bringing in your backup QB, particularly when you have a guy with legs like Johnson's, do you think that's a bad idea? 

 

I seriously wanted Dalton to be benched before the end of the second quarter for a few reasons: Johnson could neutralize that aggressive rush with his legs, Johnson would likely be able to actually hurl the ball downfield in the windy conditions....and maybe it serves a notice to Dalton to get his mind right and come out of the funk after Johnson led the team down the field.

 

I am totally serious. I completely understand why NFL coaches seem reluctant to "usurp" the starter, but we could have done something there with Johnson, I am convinced. Because the goddamn playcalling wasn't doing us any favors. What do you do when a team is overly aggressive in their rushing?

 

SCREENS! Where were those play calls? 

 

I am so unhappy with Dalton, Gruden and the line I will just have to stop. I still don't understand the harm in getting your second string QB involved on a few plays with a designed run option to slow down that rush, especially if you aren't going to call plays for your starter that do the same thing. This is our WORST loss of the year.

 

 

the issue I have with the josh johnson idea is that, its not exactly like the oline is run blocking well, nor are the receivers and TE's.  I don't know how much bringing in a running QB would help, other than to tell the defense "don't bother defending the pass much."