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What the hell is happening in Ferguson?


kennethmw

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In regards to the militarization of the police I think this incident overall is an argument for that instead of against it, unless you want to make the argument that the mere presence of a militarized police instigated the crowd. Which seems like a psychological rabbit hole. 

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Has there been a police take presented with this much depth?  It certainly seems like the officer was away from danger but kept firing.


No, and if everything the police said is true there are still problems with this. Shooting an unarmed person in the back, then shooting a person with their hands up multiple times.
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No, and if everything the police said is true there are still problems with this. Shooting an unarmed person in the back, then shooting a person with their hands up multiple times.

 

Completely agree with the shooting the guy running away part. You are out of danger at that point. But if the guy is going for your gun that's an amped up situation where you won't know if he is armed etc. 

 

But as you said. After he flees the scene you call it in and let the guy go if needs be. Definitely do not need to be shooting him in the back. As he is escaping. If that's how it happened. 

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Both sides need to confront their own personal Kenneth and / or Weston.  Ignoring a problem does not make it go away.

 

Rioters = Looters = Criminals but does not equal the peaceful protestors.

 

Hands in the air does not equal a sign of surrender by itself.  Especially if there is a weapon or other means of continuing the incident within them.  Hands in the air with no weapon or means is not justifiable shooting.

 

Who started this incident in the end doesn't really matter.  Each side can claim the other started it and can probably even show some fantastic statistics to back each discussion.  Launching an investigation, which has been done as far as my knowledge goes, will help but not solve the situation without addressing the root causes of this nightmare.

 

Kenneth is right on the root causes.  Build a house with no roots / foundation and it will crumble shortly after the building is complete.  In other words, communicate people, address the root causes, and start singing Kumbaya or something similar...  Ignoring the other sides concerns is not making this problem go away.

 

:kumbaya:

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No, and if everything the police said is true there are still problems with this. Shooting an unarmed person in the back, then shooting a person with their hands up multiple times.

Thankfully the eyewitness accounts are verifiable by one easy question. Was Brown shot in the back?

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I just can't believe the witnesses' story. Sounds incredibly unbelievable. He just walked up to them and started shooting? Really?

It's awesome how people automatically assume the police are racist cold blooded murderers. And by awesome I mean incredibly ignorant.
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I just can't believe the witnesses' story. Sounds incredibly unbelievable. He just walked up to them and started shooting? Really?

It's awesome how people automatically assume the police are racist cold blooded murderers. And by awesome I mean incredibly ignorant.

He just walked up and started shooting isn't the witnesses whole story.  Did you watch it from the beginning or just skip to the end

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He just walked up and started shooting isn't the witnesses whole story.  Did you watch it from the beginning or just skip to the end

I've heard all about it. That's basically his story. It's completely unbelievable.

So the 6 year vet cop with 0 discipline just decided to become a murderer all of a sudden unprovoked?

The story from the police sounds plausible to me. Robbery occurred in area, Brown matched exact description, fight ensued, officer believed his life was in danger fighting a guy 6" taller and 100 pounds heavier. Did he have to kill him? I don't know in wasn't there. We do know the officer suffered serious injuries and that to me is justifiable for deadly force. It is also justifiable in the courts. Whether he was shot in the back is pure speculation at this point.
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I do not understand why Furguson PD withheld information that the officer was attempting to confront a robbery suspect and not some innocent child. It makes no sense for FPD to not release that along with all of the other initial relevant information in regards to the case. Best case scenario, the Furguson PD looks incredibly inept and in well over their heads. Worst case scenario is that as a whole they are violent, racist, and incompetent. 

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http://www.theonion.com/articles/our-nations-unarmed-teens-are-they-armed,36705/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

 

This is in jest but I think it makes a good point without trying. You hear from the media, unarmed black teen shot while running from cops of course you are going to say that's injustice. 

 

If the headline said suspect in a robbery shot after going after a policeman's gun and physically attacking him. It's a different story. 

 

Headlines lead to an emotional response.

 

I'm sick of people making cops and teachers out to be villains. 

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Jamie, looting isn't the problem, it's a symptom of the problem. That community is 65% black, however, there are only three blacks on the 53 man police force, and none on the school board. They are twice as likely to be stopped by the police, five times as likely to be arrested for some BS reason, and we all know they are being racially profiled. There is a two-tiered system in our society,and although I think you know that, I don't think many of you understand what it feels like.

 

 

I think I read somewhere that it is something like 70-75% black... so yes, if 2/3s of a community are one race, numbers add up that they would be stopped by police more and arrested more. The fact that not many of the cops themselves are black doesnt make much sense- BUT- what are the application percentages? If no qualified blacks are applying to be police, then they wont be. And as much as all of you dont want to admit it, the segment of black population that commits serious crime is higher than that of whites by percentage. And not only that, but on the rare occassion a white person kills a black person, many people in black communities act like the most heinous act possible occurred. They dont give a shit that blacks murder, rape, and rob more people of other races than vice versa of ALL races do against blacks. If other races rioted everytime a black person did something terrible to them there would be not a building standing in this country. Having said that,... Most black people, just like everyone else, are good, honest people- even in rough neighborhoods like this... but there is a high enough percentage of criminal element in the community that yeah, there is going to be some profiling going on. Its common sense. Profiling is a necessary ingredient in proactive peace keeping and law enforcing- and its not just profiling race... Many things are profiled. It also matters how you present yourself to society- a white, or asian, or hispanic kid that dresses like a dirtbag thug and treats authority figures with no respect will get very similar results as blacks that dress like dirtbags and treat authority figures. A black man that is well dressed and speaks politely to a cop will have similar results as a white/asian/hispanic man that acts the same.

By the way, this dude robbed a convenience store then intimidated and assaulted the little old man that worked there just minutes before he was shot. Another innocent angel, indeed.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxXGvXQrno

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Also in response to your "another angel" comment....

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/michael-brown-stole-cigars_n_5682089.html

 

 

It Doesn't Matter If Michael Brown Stole A Box Of Cigars

 

At a Friday press conference outside a Ferguson, Missouri, QuikTrip gas station burned during looting earlier this week, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jacksonidentified Darren Wilson as the police officer who shot and killed unarmed teen Michael Brown on Saturday.

Jackson gave no further information about the incident that led to Brown being shot multiple times, but revealed that the 18-year-old was the lead suspect in a strong-arm robbery at a convenience store, where a box of Swisher Sweets cigars valued at $48.99 was stolen and a clerk was allegedly shoved. Surveillance photos released by police appear to show a figure that loosely fits Brown's description.

Wilson was initially thought to be responding to the crime when he confronted Brown, though Jackson later on Friday clarified that the teen was stopped because he was "blocking traffic" by walking in the middle of the street, and was not a known suspect at the time.

To be sure, any information at all about the day Brown was killed is useful, though the public way in which the police shared the photos of the incident at the convenience store suggest their motive was not public service and transparency, but an effort to shift the discussion to one about Brown's character.

But Brown's character is irrelevant. Brown's potential involvement in a crime doesn't answer the questions that citizens of Ferguson have taken to the streets for the past six days to see answered: How and why did Brown end up dead in the middle of the street? Was Wilson justified in shooting down Brown? Did Brown really assault the officer in his vehicle and reach for his gun, as police claim? Did Wilson fire the fatal shot while Brown had his hands up, as other eyewitnesses claim? How does this incident play into the broader trend of police using excessive force on unarmed black males?

This continued failure to provide answers brings up one final question: If Brown did rough up a convenience store clerk and steal a box of smokes, does it mean we should care less about the circumstances of his death?

If you believe the answer to this question is no, then it doesn't matter if Michael Brown stole a box of cigars.

As Ezra Klein writes at Vox, focusing on Brown's character obscures the real matter at hand:

This case is not about whether Michael Brown was One Of The Good Ones. It's not even about whether he robbed a convenience store. The penalty for stealing cigars from a convenience store is not death. This case is about whether Wilson was legally justified in shooting Michael Brown.

 
 

This story has been updated to reflect the latest information released by Jackson.

 

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/15/tom-jackson-michael-brown_n_5682762.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&ir=Politics

 

 

Ferguson Police Chief: Darren Wilson Did Not Know Michael Brown Was Suspect In 'Strong-Armed' Robbery

 

Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday the initial contact between 18-year-old Michael Brown and police officer Darren Wilson was not related to a convenience store robbery.

Brown, an unarmed black teenager, was shot and killed by Wilson on Saturday, August 9.

In a press conference earlier on Friday, Ferguson police released a report naming Brown as the main suspect in a convenience store robbery where a box of Swisher Sweets cigars valued at $48.99 was stolen and a clerk was allegedly shoved.

Video of the incident allegedly showing Brown, which was released to the public, "had nothing to do with the stop" and was "unrelated" to Wilson's contact with Brown, Jackson said. He said video of the convenience store incident was released in response to Freedom of Information Act requests.

"The initial contact between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown was not related to the alleged theft of cigars," Jackson said, indicating Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

Jackson said Wilson was in the area "coming off a sick case," and initiated contact with Brown because the teenager was "blocking traffic, that's it."

When asked about Wilson, Jackson said he is "a gentleman, a quiet officer" who found the incident "devastating."

"He never intended for any of this to happen," Jackson said.

 

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Kenny,  Israel demolished everything leaving us with nothing to LOOT! No Air Jordans my friend. 

 

Rumble, it's not about the looting, it's about the second class citizen thing.  You should realize, since they label you as one as well.

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I think I read somewhere that it is something like 70-75% black... so yes, if 2/3s of a community are one race, numbers add up that they would be stopped by police more and arrested more. The fact that not many of the cops themselves are black doesnt make much sense- BUT- what are the application percentages? If no qualified blacks are applying to be police, then they wont be. And as much as all of you dont want to admit it, the segment of black population that commits serious crime is higher than that of whites by percentage. And not only that, but on the rare occassion a white person kills a black person, many people in black communities act like the most heinous act possible occurred. They dont give a shit that blacks murder, rape, and rob more people of other races than vice versa of ALL races do against blacks. If other races rioted everytime a black person did something terrible to them there would be not a building standing in this country. Having said that,... Most black people, just like everyone else, are good, honest people- even in rough neighborhoods like this... but there is a high enough percentage of criminal element in the community that yeah, there is going to be some profiling going on. Its common sense. Profiling is a necessary ingredient in proactive peace keeping and law enforcing- and its not just profiling race... Many things are profiled. It also matters how you present yourself to society- a white, or asian, or hispanic kid that dresses like a dirtbag thug and treats authority figures with no respect will get very similar results as blacks that dress like dirtbags and treat authority figures. A black man that is well dressed and speaks politely to a cop will have similar results as a white/asian/hispanic man that acts the same.

By the way, this dude robbed a convenience store then intimidated and assaulted the little old man that worked there just minutes before he was shot. Another innocent angel, indeed.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHxXGvXQrno

 

Yeah, I know all us black people do is rob you good upstanding white people.  Why, I don't know why they don't just lock us all up in Guantanomo or something.  SMH. BTW, that number of people pulled over is ADJUSTED for population density. 

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Looters, said “Madam Nori,” are “tearing up their own neighborhood instead of terrorizing the white neighborhoods.”

They “need to go to the white people’s area and start looting,” wrote “Groovy.”

 

 

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-protesters-putting-cops-on-hit-list-in-missouri/#sXc9UFqIsJ1hdXdR.99

 

 

 

What a piece of low down dirty dog shit this racist lady is. Wow.

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Would you like to provide us with some verifiable statistics on this?

 

No, dig them up yourself. Or open your eyes.

 

And, I am well aware that the price of stealing a box of cigars isnt death. This dude has been portrayed, FALSELY, as a gentle giant, a great man who wouldnt hurt a fly... Well as the story evolves more and more, just like Trayvon, it paints a picture not of some innocent kid, but of someone who was committing criminal offenses, physical assault and robbery. Does a person deserve to die for robbery? No. But lets stop acting like these VERY FEW black dudes that get killed are fucking angels. They arent. They are common dirtbags.

 

I feel bad for the female honors students that get killed in Chicago crossfire, or for toddlers that die in Philadelphia crossfires, or for the babies in Gaza that are used as human shields by Hamas (and Israel shouldnt be shelling anyway)... but I dont feel bad when dirtbag criminals meet their fate- whenever that is.

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Yeah, I know all us black people do is rob you good upstanding white people.  Why, I don't know why they don't just lock us all up in Guantanomo or something.  SMH. BTW, that number of people pulled over is ADJUSTED for population density. 

 

I specifically stated that the vast majority of black people are no different than any other race and are good people. There are no differences in races from person to person... But there are differences in communities and sects where bad behavior is overlooked, encouraged and excused... and when I read national news from CNN, BBC, DailyMail, USA Today etc on a daily basis and seemingly 85-90% of violent crimes on strangers are committed by blacks, I'm not going to just shrug it off. I live in the real world and pay attention, you live in a race fueled fantasy land and think that people can do no wrong just because of their skin color or you feel like you need to protect all the criminals that share a skin color with you for some reason. In reality, you and I have a lot more in common than those dirtbags that are out committing all the crimes- but you refuse to admit it because you are stuck on a skin color. I know I have way more in common with most decent black folks than I do with the of the dirtball white bastards- and I see no reason to act as if those shitheads dont exist.

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