HairOnFire Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 When a point isn't very strong there is always qualifiers attached to it. The underlining issue is how could Carson get away with what he did? The answer is the preception of organization at that time. You're just adding your own qualifiers by claiming Palmers unprecedented unprofessionalism was somebody elses fault. You claim teams that win championships don't have to deal with unprofessional assholes like Carson Palmer, but you fail to mention why teams like Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Chicago, Buffalo, Washington, and a dozen others have never had to deal with an entrenched franchise QB quitting abruptly while under contract. So how did Carson get away with what he did? The answer has as much to do with Palmer as the organization he quit on. If you want to construct a question limiting it to QBs, wearing no. 9, with little brothers named Jordan, fine whatever. I see you're bringing out the straw man argument already. My question for you limited the conversation only to every QB who has ever played in the NFL. So continue to eliminate the happy campers and those with storybook careers. That leaves several hundred QB's who played for bad franchises and noncontending teams over the years. Surely you can think of at least one who was in a comparable situation as Palmer who acted in a comparable manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Found Andy in his Superman getup (even has the red hair) :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 You're just adding your own qualifiers by claiming Palmers unprecedented unprofessionalism was somebody elses fault. You claim teams that win championships don't have to deal with unprofessional assholes like Carson Palmer, but you fail to mention why teams like Tampa Bay, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Chicago, Buffalo, Washington, and a dozen others have never had to deal with an entrenched franchise QB quitting abruptly while under contract. So how did Carson get away with what he did? The answer has as much to do with Palmer as the organization he quit on. I see you're bringing out the straw man argument already. My question for you limited the conversation only to every QB who has ever played in the NFL. So continue to eliminate the happy campers and those with storybook careers. That leaves several hundred QB's who played for bad franchises and noncontending teams over the years. Surely you can think of at least one who was in a comparable situation as Palmer who acted in a comparable manner. Woah, slow down there. I'm going to need to know how many games you've attended this year before I can decide if your arguments are valid. How many $8 Miller Lites did you purchase? Did you share your nachos with the other fans in your row? Do you make your dog wear an Ochocinco jersey when you play fetch and then shrug helplessly when he decides to chase the neighbor kids instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 And in 2 years out of seven did Palmer have a record above .500. That is exactly the comparison. Palmer needed a good offensive line, a good run game, good veteran WRs, and good defense to succeed. Just like Dalton. When any of those components were lacking, he did poorly. Dalton has had to work around a adequate to poor run game, offensive line issues, and a thin and inexperienced WR corps his whole career We don't know if Andy could succeed without a top defense because he hasn't had to play without one. Unlike Palmer who played with terrible defenses almost his entire career in Cincinnati. Again, nice try. Lol at making it sound like Palmer was surrounded by tons of talent on offense and Andy has had nothing to work with. AJ Green is a far better weapon than Palmer ever had. Chucklehead divas like Chad and TJ don't compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 We don't know if Andy could succeed without a top defense because he hasn't had to play without one. Unlike Palmer who played with terrible defenses almost his entire career in Cincinnati. Again, nice try. Lol at making it sound like Palmer was surrounded by tons of talent on offense and Andy has had nothing to work with. AJ Green is a far better weapon than Palmer ever had. Chucklehead divas like Chad and TJ don't compare. He hasn't had a top defense this year... In fact. it may be the worst defense under Lewis statistically so far (currently up to 28th). And Green has yet to put up the kind of numbers Chad did during his prime. Don't get me wrong, I would take Green over Chad in a hot minute (mostly due to their mental make-up), but I don't think you have a very strong argument here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 He hasn't had a top defense this year... In fact. it may be the worst defense under Lewis statistically so far (currently up to 28th). And Green has yet to put up the kind of numbers Chad did during his prime. Don't get me wrong, I would take Green over Chad in a hot minute (mostly due to their mental make-up), but I don't think you have a very strong argument here. Weird how Andy is having his worst statistical season at the same time the defense has fallen off. Btw, AJ's numbers in 2012 and 2013 are every bit as good as Chad's best seasons. He has done far more if you compare their first 3 seasons in the NFL, too. Might want to look up the numbers yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Weird how Andy is having his worst statistical season at the same time the defense has fallen off. Btw, AJ's numbers in 2012 and 2013 are every bit as good as Chad's best seasons. He has done far more if you compare their first 3 seasons in the NFL, too. Might want to look up the numbers yourself. Nonsense. Chad led the AFC in receiving 4 years running. AJ Green hasn't come close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 He hasn't had a top defense this year... In fact. it may be the worst defense under Lewis statistically so far (currently up to 28th). And Green has yet to put up the kind of numbers Chad did during his prime. Don't get me wrong, I would take Green over Chad in a hot minute (mostly due to their mental make-up), but I don't think you have a very strong argument here. What's more to the point, both Chad and TJ were veteran WRs in their prime during Carson's glory years. Working with Green in his early years and a bunch of nothing, followed by what snips of Sanu and Marvin Jones can be worked in between injuries isn't the same thing. And then there were Kelly Washington and Chris Henry, Green may end up being better than Chad (I certainly hope so) but all those years when Chad and TJ were figuring crap out were before Carson's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthPaw Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Don't cha just love how "Palmer never did anything while he was here," but when Andy fails, " it's not just him, the TEAM failed. Gotta love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Don't cha just love how "Palmer never did anything while he was here," but when Andy fails, " it's not just him, the TEAM failed. Gotta love it. It's a TEAM GAME!!! They don't grow on the treees!!!! Not only that, but when everyone is so adamant about how Romo, Stafford, Cutler, etc.... all those guys suck, do you think any of these excuses are made for them? Hell no. They suck...but Dalton's teammates and coaches and weather and whatever else are the first things looked at in his failings. Funny world we live in. That's why I take the other extreme side sometimes....ok, most times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Good grief. Leave it to this board and the "Awayers" (that's what I am going to start calling you "Anti-Homers") to turn a thread that was supposed to praise Dalton into a thread that worships and defends the fucking quitter. Here since some of you missed it the first time these are the facts. Carson was paid to sit and learn for a year before he even took a snap. The Bengals made Carson Palmer the highest paid player in the NFL after starting 2 Seasons. That contract still ranks as the 9th highest in the history of the NFL to this day. The Offense Carson Palmer walked into was stacked with talent. Every player Carson lobbied for he got. Reggie Kelly, Kenny Watson, Terrell Owens .. whoever. For the people that say Carson just wanted to win, USC Trojans records 1999: 6-6 2000: 5-7 2001: 6-6 2002: 11-2 The Trojans had finished no higher than 3rd in the Conference and had a .500 record in Conference the 3 years prior to Carson signing to play with them. 2009 the Bengals won the AFC North Division. 2010 Carson said there was "no excuses" why this team shouldn't go to the Super Bowl. He then went on to throw a Career high (at the time) 20 INTs that Season. His last pass was sailed over the head of his receiver and out of bounds on 4th down. to lose the game. He went from no excuses to not his fault and not his problem. Dave Lapham, Dennis Janson, Brad Johansen, and Joe Reedy are all paid to cover the Bengals. All mentioned Carson's wife as being a major reason why he quit. For sake of argument, (yeah right), let's just say Carson just quit because he wanted to quit. The fact remains he quit on YOUR team. A team that made him the highest paid player. That signed all the players he wanted them to sign. And that had won more than his College team. Andy Dalton played from the first possible snap on. Has won more games than Palmer. Thrown for more yards. Thrown more TDs and took his team to the Playoffs every year he has played. The funny thing to me is, the same people that are bashing on Dalton bashed on Palmer too. And wanted him gone and/or replaced until he quit. Then all of a sudden he became some sort of martyr. Funny in a pathetic way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's a TEAM GAME!!! They don't grow on the treees!!!! Not only that, but when everyone is so adamant about how Romo, Stafford, Cutler, etc.... all those guys suck, do you think any of these excuses are made for them? Hell no. They suck...but Dalton's teammates and coaches and weather and whatever else are the first things looked at in his failings. Funny world we live in. That's why I take the other extreme side sometimes....ok, most times. Just 5 minutes ago I read a post where you were praising Gresham, talking about how he just needs more time and more opportunities, and agreeing with BAB that Gresham could be a Top5 TE in the NFL. A funny world we live in indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 He [Palmer] went from no excuses to not his fault and not his problem. There it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgal Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I live in Arizona and people here think Carson was treated badly by Cincy or had bad luck by coming here. "Palmer is great. It sucks he wasted his youth in Cincy." No one cares about the Bengals outside of Cincinnati. When I tell people I'm a Bengals' fan, I never get "oh cool!"... I always get, "lol I'm sorry." The rest of the world looks at us like we look at the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nonsense. Chad led the AFC in receiving 4 years running. AJ Green hasn't come close to that. No matter how you slice it AJ has better numbers than Chad through each of their first 4 seasons. It's not even close. Chad didn't sniff the Pro Bowl till his 3rd year, while AJ made it his first three seasons. GTFO with your nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 No matter how you slice it AJ has better numbers than Chad through each of their first 4 seasons. It's not even close. Chad didn't sniff the Pro Bowl till his 3rd year, while AJ made it his first three seasons. GTFO with your nonsense. Really? Question then. If AJ's first three years of production make it "not even close", then why is Andy's first three years of production considered irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 This is the problem with the attempt to impose a black and white reality on something that is more nuanced. Chad was an AFC leading receiver, and was pretty great in his prime. AJ is pretty great. So was 100-plus-catch-season TJ Housh. No one remotely as reliable/dependable as he on this team. Carson also had a better line, at least in his early years (though it declined quickly, while Andy's line is trending up). But when you try to qualify or disqualify a player entirely based on his supporting cast all you're doing is making yourself look simple-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 This thread is starting to annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 This is the problem with the attempt to impose a black and white reality on something that is more nuanced. Chad was an AFC leading receiver, and was pretty great in his prime. AJ is pretty great. So was 100-plus-catch-season TJ Housh. No one remotely as reliable/dependable as he on this team. Carson also had a better line, at least in his early years (though it declined quickly, while Andy's line is trending up). But when you try to qualify or disqualify a player entirely based on his supporting cast all you're doing is making yourself look simple-minded. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinci1fan1 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have stopped frequenting this board for a reason. When the bengals lose I am miserable the whole next week, It's not in my best interest to add more by logging here. I am not going to name names but there are people here in this board who in name of realists or whatever name they give them self would rather bengals loose so they can fist pump themselves that they are right all the way. I know i am some miniscule guy whose opinion does not matter here much but this board looks awefully like the bengals.com. I have got invitations to join another board but as a bengal fan this is the only board I want to participate. It's either this board or nothing for me. As for the topic of thread, what kind of andy do you want to see should answer. It's unfortunate that football has become one man game for bengals and team as a whole for other teams in NFL in view of bengal fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinci1fan1 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 ... Level headed or not this is the first one i ever participated in and enjoyed logging in even after a loss. I am loyal to a fault in personal life and the same is true in other things as well so for me the only board that matters is this one. I just wanted to add my 2 cents not to stir up anything bro. I just wish people remember we are all still bengals fans first and any player hating should not come before it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Really? Question then. If AJ's first three years of production make it "not even close", then why is Andy's first three years of production considered irrelevant? Show me where I said Andy's production was irrelevant. I said AJ did far more than Chad in his first three years, which is true. Try reading next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Wow, now this thread is REALLY starting to annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkansas Bengal Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Wow, now this thread is REALLY starting to annoy me. Why don't you lock it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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