Jamie_B Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Id take him if he's there. I'm at 75% take him 25% pass. Well see how that changes as we get closer to the draft. I wish I had faith in our coaching to coach him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 3 hours ago, claptonrocks said: Guess everyone is stupid but you and Spicoli... Oh ffs…seriously? 🤦♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, esjbh2 said: I'm somewhere in between you and T-Dub/Spicoli on this subject...I like to be like Switzerland :)...but I will say that PFF may be just fine as "A SOURCE" for a player's talent evaluation and hence why it has NFL and college subscriptions, but some people seem to think it is "THE DEFINITIVE SOURCE"...BIG difference. Lots of other things need to be considered, game context, team context, heart/passion, performance when game is on the line, and like SheBengal says things like football/game IQ, leadership, etc. I'll use Sam Hubbard as an example. He's not a guy that shows up on the stat sheet like Trey does and prolly doesn't have great numbers on PFF and he's been said to be an under-performer in another thread here and maybe would even be cut if on another team. That's just udder BS in my mind...his value goes way beyond sack numbers and PFF grades...I sure as hell don't want to lose him. OLine is another glaring PFF example...maybe a player has a diminished PFF grade because of the team/game context dictates that he play next to one of worst linemen in the league, or because the coach is using a scheme that doesn't match the skillset of the players. I'm not saying that's always the case, just citing examples of how PFF grades and stats can be very deceiving. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" -Mark Twain Sometime back on Sirius radio, I think it was either Korean or the Ketchup Whisperer said all teams use PFF as a resource not as a Bible , it is another set of eyes that looks at the players. Kind of a cross check. No doubt teams also look at some of the draft sites if they know the site’s previous analysis was good. Another cross check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 18 minutes ago, spicoli said: Oh ffs…seriously? 🤦♂️ It was about your pff thoughts. Nothing else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 On 1/16/2024 at 3:16 PM, claptonrocks said: Ok but every pro and college team uses their services so.. Pfft No, they do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 5 hours ago, claptonrocks said: Explain to me why every. NFL and over 100 colleges subscribed to their site? Guess everyone is stupid but you and Spicoli... Your first sentence is bullshit unless they GIVE it to all those teams, and in that case it's worth what they pay for it. I know of no other serious scouting service in any other sport that is marketed to fans and cheap enough for them to pay for it. It's a great business idea, but I seriously doubt many teams put much stock in it. Coaches evaluate their own players, they don't pay Collinsworth to hire some kids to do it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 32 minutes ago, UncleEarl said: No, they do not. 32 NFL..111 colleges..9 CFL teams use customized data from pff.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 31 minutes ago, UncleEarl said: Your first sentence is bullshit unless they GIVE it to all those teams, and in that case it's worth what they pay for it. I know of no other serious scouting service in any other sport that is marketed to fans and cheap enough for them to pay for it. It's a great business idea, but I seriously doubt many teams put much stock in it. Coaches evaluate their own players, they don't pay Collinsworth to hire some kids to do it for them. It's not the Only data teams use. Its another way to gather more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 3 hours ago, Jamie_B said: I'm at 75% take him 25% pass. Well see how that changes as we get closer to the draft. I wish I had faith in our coaching to coach him up. I'm not as down on Pollack as most here. Who has he failed to coach other than possibly Carman? He's had a bunch of late round picks to work with and made a borderline starter out of one of them. Not sure what else he's supposed to do? I saw the supposed decline in "score" (very legit science) with the rest of the OL but again, consider the source as well as the lack of offensive balance that was leaving them exposed. Now if they do go OL in the first 2 rounds (both would be swell) and they both flop then yeah.. blame the OL coach but also who the hell is making these bad picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 11 hours ago, claptonrocks said: It's not the Only data teams use. Its another way to gather more information. There is about zero chance any coaching staff uses this information to evaluate their own players. If they do they should be fired. It's impossible for the people at PFF to know exactly what every player was supposed to do on every play. Coaches know that. I'm not sure how much individual video study football players do, but in hockey it's quite a bit. The only reason a team would look at something like this would be for free agents, draft prospects, or sadly, arbitration hearings. Honestly, using an algorithm to grade players is the lazy way out and frankly, crappy. For a world of fans hooked on fantasy and other forms of gambling it's an irresistible product. Really smart move by Collinsworth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 9 hours ago, T-Dub said: I'm not as down on Pollack as most here. Who has he failed to coach other than possibly Carman? He's had a bunch of late round picks to work with and made a borderline starter out of one of them. Not sure what else he's supposed to do? I saw the supposed decline in "score" (very legit science) with the rest of the OL but again, consider the source as well as the lack of offensive balance that was leaving them exposed. Now if they do go OL in the first 2 rounds (both would be swell) and they both flop then yeah.. blame the OL coach but also who the hell is making these bad picks? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 I think they are hurt by being in RPO so much. The linemen can’t fire off the snap and try to get downfield to run block because it’s a penalty. They basically have to hold a wall and if the route doesn’t win early - you have a quarterback in a short drop that now needs more time to let the routes develop. Kind of a recipe for disaster in terms of trying to pass block because the quarterback has no pocket to step up into and tackles who can’t drop step because it might be a run. They have good collective talent across the line. They need to figure out whether they want bigger/longer guys or smaller athletic guys. Judging by the OBJ/LC signings, they are moving towards bigger and longer guys. Getting a bigger and longer guy at RT and getting Joe under center and out of RPO on early downs should go a long way towards marrying the run and pass game. Getting a more explosive back would also be a nice piece of the equation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 13 minutes ago, JC said: I think they are hurt by being in RPO so much. The linemen can’t fire off the snap and try to get downfield to run block because it’s a penalty. They basically have to hold a wall and if the route doesn’t win early - you have a quarterback in a short drop that now needs more time to let the routes develop. Kind of a recipe for disaster in terms of trying to pass block because the quarterback has no pocket to step up into and tackles who can’t drop step because it might be a run. They have good collective talent across the line. They need to figure out whether they want bigger/longer guys or smaller athletic guys. Judging by the OBJ/LC signings, they are moving towards bigger and longer guys. Getting a bigger and longer guy at RT and getting Joe under center and out of RPO on early downs should go a long way towards marrying the run and pass game. Getting a more explosive back would also be a nice piece of the equation. The RPO works best if you have an R who is a real threat to do something other than bump into a blocking O lineman and fall on his ass. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 I would concur with that. They need to get fresher and cheaper legs there. Buddy has ~1600 carries and ~300 receptions. It’s probably time to make a new investment there. Chase Brown getting injured a couple of times muddied the waters a little bit though. Have to be able to rely on them and Joe has been about as reliable as they come at running back in terms of durability and keeping ahold of the ball. 6 career fumbles over ~2000 touches is unbelievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted January 18 Report Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, UncleEarl said: There is about zero chance any coaching staff uses this information to evaluate their own players. If they do they should be fired. It's impossible for the people at PFF to know exactly what every player was supposed to do on every play. Coaches know that. I'm not sure how much individual video study football players do, but in hockey it's quite a bit. The only reason a team would look at something like this would be for free agents, draft prospects, or sadly, arbitration hearings. Honestly, using an algorithm to grade players is the lazy way out and frankly, crappy. For a world of fans hooked on fantasy and other forms of gambling it's an irresistible product. Really smart move by Collinsworth. Allright then..point taken.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Would be nice if Joe Alt somehow finds himself still sitting there at 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Just now, spicoli said: Would be nice if Joe Alt somehow finds himself still sitting there at 18. I heard he got caught with Hookers and weed at their bowl game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 13 minutes ago, Jamie_B said: I heard he got caught with Hookers and weed at their bowl game. Surely someone out there has pics of him ripping a big ole bong hit 🤷♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Jamie_B said: So you're saying we'll take a wide receiver. 1/2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Just now, High School Harry said: So you're saying we'll take a wide receiver. 1/2 Seeing as last year was one of the most loaded TE drafts and we didn't take one. We probably skip out on an OT this year too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Just now, Jamie_B said: Seeing as last year was one of the most loaded TE drafts and we didn't take one. We probably skip out on an OT this year too. I'm still breathing a huge sigh of relief that we didn't take Leatherwood whenever it was he came out. Actually, rather surprising, that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BlackJesus| Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 On 1/19/2024 at 5:05 PM, spicoli said: Would be nice if Joe Alt somehow finds himself still sitting there at 18. He's the best one of the entire class and doesn't make it out of the top 6-8 picks, I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 Yeah, Alt is the best tackle in the class. Fashanu is a polarizing prospect but will most likely go in the top 10, maybe even ahead of Alt. There's a good chance that 3 or 4 tackles are gone before 18. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, BlackJesus said: He's the best one of the entire class and doesn't make it out of the top 6-8 picks, I think. I agree. I was really just poking fun at the article saying there was basically no difference between the first 8 guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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