I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 From my perspective, the 1-4 is shining a large spotlight on the old football adage - the games is won or lost in the lines. We have seen improved OL play so Joe is eating up defences. We have been decimated on the DL with injury, you cannot discount that effect. I think the Reader decision was tough because he was getting older and coming off a tough injury. Build the lines - and keep building them. Dedicate high picks to these spots. I think our DL has looked like our OL from two years ago, now we have to HOPE that 2 of the 3 young guys perform (Murphy, Jenkins, McKinley). I have pretty much given up on Oassi. Jenkins already is playing better than Carter ever did so that is an upgrade. Build the lines - this strategy never fails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 35 minutes ago, Le Tigre said: I remember that like it was yesterday. Basically happened right in front of our section. He was running to the sideline after being flushed from the pocket, and was hammered pretty good. I found this photo, but this might not be the one (he was getting hit all game fairly solid. I completely forgot that happened against us. Of course it did, of course the Bengals were the reason the Pats became that Dynasty * le sigh * 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 Just saw that Jaxson Kirkland is out for the year with a torn biceps. Too bad, he was at least better than Cartman. So we signed a RT/G off the Falcons PS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 5 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: Just saw that Jaxson Kirkland is out for the year with a torn biceps. Too bad, he was at least better than Cartman. So we signed a RT/G off the Falcons PS. How would we know if Kirkland was better ? Apparently the Bengals didn't think so . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 2 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: How would we know if Kirkland was better ? Apparently the Bengals didn't think so . They kept him and cut Cartman - that would indicate they think he is better? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 minute ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: They kept him and cut Cartman - that would indicate they think he is better? Not just that but Carman is so bad the Bengals chose to pick from a different practice squad player than bring him back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 29 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: They kept him and cut Cartman - that would indicate they think he is better? Point taken.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 30 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Point taken.. Kirkland played well in the pre-season. Has potential even if he is a good backup in the future. By the way, should his nickname not be Costco? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebengal Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 FWIW-Mike Brown is on the Forbes 400 list. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2024/10/07/how-much-is-mike-brown-worth-bengals-owner-forbes-400-list/75552311007/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 15 minutes ago, Shebengal said: FWIW-Mike Brown is on the Forbes 400 list. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2024/10/07/how-much-is-mike-brown-worth-bengals-owner-forbes-400-list/75552311007/ There it is. 1-4 or 4-1, who cares? The Brown/Blackburn Family Trust is winning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 18 minutes ago, T-Dub said: There it is. 1-4 or 4-1, who cares? The Brown/Blackburn Family Trust is winning. I belive the BG's fully understand that the value of the franchise is directly correlated with winning. Mikey never understood that or cared but they seem to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA14_HOF Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 4 hours ago, Le Tigre said: I remember that like it was yesterday. Basically happened right in front of our section. He was running to the sideline after being flushed from the pocket, and was hammered pretty good. I found this photo, but this might not be the one (he was getting hit all game fairly solid. I thought Bledsoe's injury (ruptured spleen, or something) that opened the door for Brady came against the Jets. No? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 9 minutes ago, KA14_HOF said: I thought Bledsoe's injury (ruptured spleen, or something) that opened the door for Brady came against the Jets. No? Looks like you are correct. Been so long ago that people can be forgiven to have forgotten. Video | Facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 38 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: I belive the BG's fully understand that the value of the franchise is directly correlated with winning. Mikey never understood that or cared but they seem to. I'm not convinced. I know we all want to think some fundamental passing of the torch is happening but mostly what I've seen is being cutesy on social media. What exactly are they doing so differently that translates to winning football? Other than that, it's an NFL franchise. They're printing money regardless of the team's record. They don't need to win, they just need to do enough to create the hope of winning. That's why they paid Burrow, and also why they seem so hesitant to pay anyone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: Kirkland played well in the pre-season. Has potential even if he is a good backup in the future. By the way, should his nickname not be Costco? I agree. I really liked Kirkland in the preseason. He's a monster. Wondered why he wasn't in the Monster packages rather then Cody Ford who I am kind of meh on (as if I have a clue). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, KA14_HOF said: I thought Bledsoe's injury (ruptured spleen, or something) that opened the door for Brady came against the Jets. No? He was knocked out of our game—again, it happened in real time right in front of me. To be honest, I didn’t pay attention to who came in for him. I wouldn’t have known Tom Brady from Al Bundy back then. It was later in the game as I recall. He may have recovered for the Jets, dunno. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, T-Dub said: I'm not convinced. I know we all want to think some fundamental passing of the torch is happening but mostly what I've seen is being cutesy on social media. What exactly are they doing so differently that translates to winning football? Other than that, it's an NFL franchise. They're printing money regardless of the team's record. They don't need to win, they just need to do enough to create the hope of winning. That's why they paid Burrow, and also why they seem so hesitant to pay anyone else. Glass half full or half empty I suppose (or as George Carlin said - clealry a glass that is twice the size it should be) ; I see an EFFORT to understand franchise value trumps annual income (by far BTW). Hence the building of the brand and a SB win would do wonders for the value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randle P McMurphy Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 8 hours ago, Jamie_B said: Bledsoe's injury made that decision I'm talking about when Bledsoe was healthy enough to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 minute ago, Randle P McMurphy said: I'm talking about when Bledsoe was healthy enough to come back. I mean the way Brady was playing it wouldn't have taken genius level coaching to decide to stay with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavePityPlease Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 8 hours ago, Jamie_B said: Bates was drafted by Marvin. This is what I mean about coaching being your primary draft people. Under Marvin we found Bates, Atkins, Peko. Whitworth. Under Taylor we've found Wilson, Pratt, Higgins, and while he's a rookie, I like All alot. We need a consistent front office that finds guys because putting it all on coaching yields inconsistent results. I get that's the Paul Brown way, but that way has long passed. But as far as Bates, I get why they did what they did. The Bates money was used on Orlando Brown, who while he may have had issues his first year playing hurt, taking a probowl LT is far more important than keeping a pro bowl safety. The Reader thing bothers me the most because they sat on their hands waiting and DJ said that was the biggest reason he moved on. (We saw the same with how long they waited to even talk to Tee to see what he wanted) But if you make moves like that you have to do better than they are finding replacements. And on defense were not. Oh, well, I don't put very much on the coaches with our drafts, I look at Tobin and the Brown family. Yes the coaches give their preferences and they do a large amount (maybe some of the most) analysis on the candidates around, but at the end of the day every regime needs Tobin (and sometimes MB) to agree. So, there are years and years of drafts that I don't look at much differently from coordinator to coordinator. And, at the end of the day Bates was a perfect fit for Lou and they let him walk. Also I'll never believe that Bates leaving was required to get Brown, that's far too much confidence in future outcomes to make a unit-altering decision on - namely - they expected to keep all other pieces in place, they expected to 100% get high value LT in FA two years later, and oops, some starters CHOSE to leave, darn it all! Sure the Brown family might have made this calculation, but that just fully follows on from my previous point - this management group doesn't operate like a winning franchise does, they hoard cap space for things while simultaneously refusing to pay key pieces they deem "unworthy" - by what metric, who tf knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 8 Report Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, HavePityPlease said: Oh, well, I don't put very much on the coaches with our drafts, I look at Tobin and the Brown family. Yes the coaches give their preferences and they do a large amount (maybe some of the most) analysis on the candidates around, but at the end of the day every regime needs Tobin (and sometimes MB) to agree. So, there are years and years of drafts that I don't look at much differently from coordinator to coordinator. And, at the end of the day Bates was a perfect fit for Lou and they let him walk. Also I'll never believe that Bates leaving was required to get Brown, that's far too much confidence in future outcomes to make a unit-altering decision on - namely - they expected to keep all other pieces in place, they expected to 100% get high value LT in FA two years later, and oops, some starters CHOSE to leave, darn it all! Sure the Brown family might have made this calculation, but that just fully follows on from my previous point - this management group doesn't operate like a winning franchise does, they hoard cap space for things while simultaneously refusing to pay key pieces they deem "unworthy" - by what metric, who tf knows? When it comes time to make the picks who do we think has done most of the work in putting the draft boards together? Ive always gotten the impression that coaches do most of the footwork once their NFL season is over and Tobin and his "staff" do the preliminary prep work for the coaches, then come draft time they get together. I think a well run organization takes coach input into account and weighs it heavily but I think allowing coaches to coach and a front office to do scouting ect, is the modern proven model. I think we are working with one hand tied behind our back still doing the "Paul Brown" model. Imo the way we do this is outdated. As far as could we keep Bates and still get Brown Jr? Until the Bengals join the rest of the NFL with how far they are willing to guarantee future years as opposed to big payouts upfront like they did for Brown Jr. I think we both know the answer to that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted October 9 Report Share Posted October 9 30 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said: Oh, well, I don't put very much on the coaches with our drafts, I look at Tobin and the Brown family. Yes the coaches give their preferences and they do a large amount (maybe some of the most) analysis on the candidates around, but at the end of the day every regime needs Tobin (and sometimes MB) to agree. So, there are years and years of drafts that I don't look at much differently from coordinator to coordinator. And, at the end of the day Bates was a perfect fit for Lou and they let him walk. Also I'll never believe that Bates leaving was required to get Brown, that's far too much confidence in future outcomes to make a unit-altering decision on - namely - they expected to keep all other pieces in place, they expected to 100% get high value LT in FA two years later, and oops, some starters CHOSE to leave, darn it all! Sure the Brown family might have made this calculation, but that just fully follows on from my previous point - this management group doesn't operate like a winning franchise does, they hoard cap space for things while simultaneously refusing to pay key pieces they deem "unworthy" - by what metric, who tf knows? It's an out dated model that Paul Brown used in 70s and 80s where you didn't pay guys past 30 or certain positions like safety or guard...that's why players like Whit, Reader, Zeigler, and Bates were not re-signed despite the Bengals having cap space 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted October 9 Report Share Posted October 9 13 hours ago, PatternMaster said: It's an out dated model that Paul Brown used in 70s and 80s where you didn't pay guys past 30 or certain positions like safety or guard...that's why players like Whit, Reader, Zeigler, and Bates were not re-signed despite the Bengals having cap space I partially agree, you have to be vary careful with the '3rd contract' guys. But the approach should be to take each situation on its own merit. They had plenty of space for Bates if they chose that route. I think where they are old fashioned is they always seem to be 'worried' about not enough cap space two years from now "we will have to sign X and Y then so we need to save space" ; this completly ignores a teams ability to re-work current contracts, increases in the cap, etc. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HavePityPlease Posted October 9 Report Share Posted October 9 14 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: I partially agree, you have to be vary careful with the '3rd contract' guys. But the approach should be to take each situation on its own merit. They had plenty of space for Bates if they chose that route. I think where they are old fashioned is they always seem to be 'worried' about not enough cap space two years from now "we will have to sign X and Y then so we need to save space" ; this completly ignores a teams ability to re-work current contracts, increases in the cap, etc. Exactly. And it means they're completely ignoring the fact that they're supposed to be pulling out all the stops to win now, because nothing is ever guaranteed in the future - you got the unicorn QB, so take your shots. If you fail, blow it up and try again. There's nothing mysterious about how this should be done. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 9 Report Share Posted October 9 2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: I partially agree, you have to be vary careful with the '3rd contract' guys. But the approach should be to take each situation on its own merit. They had plenty of space for Bates if they chose that route. I think where they are old fashioned is they always seem to be 'worried' about not enough cap space two years from now "we will have to sign X and Y then so we need to save space" ; this completly ignores a teams ability to re-work current contracts, increases in the cap, etc. That's the part I dont get. Like if they sign someone to an extension and only guarantee the money in the first year, if the guy they sign has a down year they are not likely to give up on him after one down year. The least they could do is guarantee money 2 years into the deal and not after that. I have to think it would help keep some guys around at least. The only time it might hurt the team is if the guy they sign has a career ending injury, and if so it hurts them for 2 years cap wise. But the odds of that can't be very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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