Steinbach

[New Jersey Bengal]

[b]I have become fed up with everyone saying how much of a mistake we made letting Steinbach go. Yes I agree he is a good player but I believe we made the right choice not paying him. Our offensive line has not been the same since Richie Braham was hurt vs the Browns during the second game of last year. He is the critical missing and I do not believe that Ghiaciuc has done that good of a job filling in for him. When Braham was missing last season and for that matter any game that he missed we were not efficient at running the ball. I know that Jonathan Joseph is going to be a good corner but we should have drafted Nick Mangold in the 2006 draft in round #1 as he is going to be an All Pro. He is a very cerebral player who has done a very very good job foir the Jets. ALso Willie was never really hurt before this season and I have seen many O Lineman play well into their upper 30's such as Willie Roaf and one other KC Chief who's name escapes me now. I also think Whitworth is going to turn out to be a better player than Steinbach. We need a cebter more than anything. And we had better sign sign Stacey Andrews because he is going to be a very very good player. Any thoughts?[/b]

[BengalTillIDie]

I think the Bengals were counting on Wilkerson being their center of the future and didn't pick a center higher than Ghiacuc when they had the chance because of it. They brought Stepanovich in hoping that maybe he would be the difference and that hasn't worked either. Unless they find a good FA center, or are able to make a center out one of the OL they currently have, they are going to be drafting one but then we are back to working a rookie into the rotation.

[New Jersey Bengal]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' post='611861' date='Dec 20 2007, 01:48 PM']I think the Bengals were counting on Wilkerson being their center of the future and didn't pick a center higher than Ghiacuc when they had the chance because of it. They brought Stepanovich in hoping that maybe he would be the difference and that hasn't worked either. Unless they find a good FA center, or are able to make a center out one of the OL they currently have, they are going to be drafting one but then we are back to working a rookie into the rotation. [/quote]
[b]AGREED....[/b]

[bengalrick]

losing braham is the most underrated problem we have had this year... he made a HUGE difference... steinbach is a good player, but i like whitworth better anyway....

[oldschooler]

Letting Steinbach go was the right decision.
Sure people will now say, because Levi and Willie
have been banged up, that letting him go was a mistake.
But if they had been healthy, and Steinbach had gotten
injured, they would be saying the Bengals made a good move.
It`s all in their hindsight.

I think Ghiaciuc has shown promise in spurts.
No he hasn`t been a rock like Braham was.
But Braham wasn`t always a rock when he first
started playing Center for the Bengals either.


I also hope the Bengals re-sign Andrews.
But not if he is looking for some huge payday.
They can`t afford to overspend for someone
that still hasn`t proven a whole hell of a lot.
And have so much money tied up in the O-line.
I guess it will all come down to how much his
value is out on the open market. Hopefully
it doesn`t get to that point though.

[bubba]

I think its critical to sign Big Stacy.

[claptonrocks]

Havent given up on Bluto yet..

He missed a couple game with injuries and it may have affected his overall season ( just guessing)
He needs to continue to get stronger ( Im sure he knows this and will work hard on it )
The experience he's getting will be valuable in calling plays in the years to come ( this is what takes time).........

[bengalbutch]

Continuity is the main deal for an O-line.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='BengalTillIDie' post='611861' date='Dec 20 2007, 01:48 PM']I think the Bengals were counting on Wilkerson being their center of the future and didn't pick a center higher than Ghiacuc when they had the chance because of it. They brought Stepanovich in hoping that maybe he would be the difference and that hasn't worked either. Unless they find a good FA center, or are able to make a center out one of the OL they currently have, they are going to be drafting one but then we are back to working a rookie into the rotation. [/quote]

I loved Wilkerson as much as anyone, but he was never really considered the center of the future. Add to that, they drafted Ghiacuc before they even had Wilkerson. They signed Ben after the draft in which they selected Ghiacuc.

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]After Carson . . . [/b][/size]

Here's a question.

Since Marvin Lewis took over as head coach five years ago, who has been the Bengals' second-best draft choice?

In other words, since they singled out Carson Palmer before the 2003 draft even began, which of their ensuing 42 picks has been the most successful?

It might have been Odell Thurman, but, because of his suspensions, we can't say that. It might have been David Pollack or Chris Perry or perhaps Kenny Irons, but, because of their injuries, we can't say that. It might have been Chris Henry, but, because of his issues, we won't say that.

It might be Robert Geathers, who is certainly paid like it. But Geathers, frankly, hasn't done much to make the current season better than 5-9.

It almost has to be Eric Steinbach. Steinbach now plays guard for Cleveland, which may be the most improved team in the league this year.

Steinbach, incidentally, was the next guy the Bengals took after Palmer.

So, what of the next 41?

Geathers? Henry? Ahmad Brooks in the supplemental?

Landon Johnson? Madieu Williams? Domata Peko?

Johnathan Joseph? Leon Hall? Andrew Whitworth?

See what I'm saying?

By Lonnie at 11:20 AM 0 comments links to this post[/quote]


[url="http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/lonniewheeler/"]http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/lonniewheeler/[/url]

[Phatcat]

I agree with this. Stenibach, whether he was here this year or not, I truly believe would have zero impact on our record. The only impact would be that Carson would have been sacked prolly 10 more times.

I'm not going to slam the Steinbach supporters, but from my take on Football you don't pay your left guard that kind of money. Everyone this week (mostly media) is singling out Steinbach as one of the reason's the Browns have succeeded this year. My take is they are the least injured NFL team of all 32 franchises. This is there year, good for them and good for Steiny. But I have no reservations that the Bengals made the correct decision not to pay him that kinda of cash. And specifically he sucked ass last year ('06) and I still hold him accountable for Carson's knee injury (in '05).

I say we put Peko over Steiny and bull rush him over and over. He will fail miserably as he always does against a good bullrusher.

[cwing]

Guy just needs to get stronger ---------- maybe he can, maybe he cannot. Nothing a little juice can't take care of !!!!

I am sure they had hoped Wilkerson could come back but I doubt highly they were counting on it. As mentioned, they drafted Guy first, signed Wilk later.

Needless to say, I agree 100%. I had no issue with letting Steiny walk for that kind of cash and Braham has big the biggest loss on that line.

I am also just as fed up with the blame game in general, especially in regards to the wide outs. Those two guys are the best part of this offense. If they weren't trying then how could one be a league leader in yds and the other in catches? Usually I like Lap but he was making comments that Cj & Tj were beginning to dislike each other --------- if so why are they always together on the bench? Why did Tj thank Cj for his help in getting to the probowl and why was Cj the first to call and wish Tj congrats?

The whole offense has struggled to some degree ------ wide outs, running game, O-line and QB play. Each and every one effects the other --------

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='611922' date='Dec 20 2007, 03:50 PM']I agree with this. Stenibach, whether he was here this year or not, I truly believe would have zero impact on our record. The only impact would be that Carson would have been sacked prolly 10 more times.

I'm not going to slam the Steinbach supporters, but from my take on Football you don't pay your left guard that kind of money. Everyone this week (mostly media) is singling out Steinbach as one of the reason's the Browns have succeeded this year. My take is they are the least injured NFL team of all 32 franchises. This is there year, good for them and good for Steiny. But I have no reservations that the Bengals made the correct decision not to pay him that kinda of cash. And specifically he sucked ass last year ('06) and I still hold him accountable for Carson's knee injury (in '05).

I say we put Peko over Steiny and bull rush him over and over. He will fail miserably as he always does against a good bullrusher.[/quote]
Jamal Lewis doesnt seem to have a problem running in back of Thomas and Steiney..
The money he got took us out of the game unless we let Willie go......
Plus the fact if you'd given Steiney all that cash if may have driven up Andrews demands even more..

[Phatcat]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='611929' date='Dec 20 2007, 04:55 PM']Jamal Lewis doesnt seem to have a problem running in back of Thomas and Steiney..
The money he got took us out of the game unless we let Willie go......
Plus the fact if you'd given Steiney all that cash if may have driven up Andrews demands even more..[/quote]

Not sure Watson or DeDe have a problem running behind Whit and Levi either. It is just when Rudi is in there the Defenses don't respect him and scheme accordingly where they know he is going to run - between the tackles. If they do that against Watson or DeDe they can get burned for 20+ yards. I'm not sure why people don't understand this - perhaps I am missing something. And by the way my biggest critique of Brat and Marvin for continuing to not game plan around this.

For your other points, I agree.

[texbengal]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='611877' date='Dec 20 2007, 01:27 PM']Letting Steinbach go was the right decision.
Sure people will now say, because Levi and Willie
have been banged up, that letting him go was a mistake.
But if they had been healthy, and Steinbach had gotten
injured, they would be saying the Bengals made a good move.
It`s all in their hindsight.

I think Ghiaciuc has shown promise in spurts.
No he hasn`t been a rock like Braham was.
But Braham wasn`t always a rock when he first
started playing Center for the Bengals either.


I also hope the Bengals re-sign Andrews.
But not if he is looking for some huge payday.
They can`t afford to overspend for someone
that still hasn`t proven a whole hell of a lot.
And have so much money tied up in the O-line.
I guess it will all come down to how much his
value is out on the open market. Hopefully
it doesn`t get to that point though.[/quote]

I agree on the C. Braham wasn't an instant hit, either; the position is a tough one to master, and I think EG will get there. I really didn't think they saw Wilkerson as the C of the future, especially given his devastating college injury. Given that he was an outstanding college player who wasn't drafted, it was worth the risk to sign him. I admired the tenacity of Wilkerson in rehabbing and making it back... but really, he just wasn't as good as Ghiaciuc.

I wanted to see Steinbach signed over Willie, honestly. I liked his versatility to play almost anywhere on the line, and his youth, and his ability to pull. Willie, given his size and the fact that he came back from microfracture knee surgery (a very difficult operation) and age, was a risk. He's a great presence on the team that can't be underestimated, but still.... a big risk. I would have preferred a lineup of Levi-Steinbach-EG-Williams/Andrews-Whit at RT, but so be it. I don't think that's the reason they've struggled... but it hasn't helped, for sure.

I do think that Andrews should be re-signed, since Willie will always be a risk from here on out.

[ueberj]

[quote name='texbengal' post='611969' date='Dec 20 2007, 05:07 PM']I agree on the C. Braham wasn't an instant hit, either; the position is a tough one to master, and I think EG will get there. I really didn't think they saw Wilkerson as the C of the future, especially given his devastating college injury. Given that he was an outstanding college player who wasn't drafted, it was worth the risk to sign him. I admired the tenacity of Wilkerson in rehabbing and making it back... but really, he just wasn't as good as Ghiaciuc.

I wanted to see Steinbach signed over Willie, honestly. I liked his versatility to play almost anywhere on the line, and his youth, and his ability to pull. Willie, given his size and the fact that he came back from microfracture knee surgery (a very difficult operation) and age, was a risk. He's a great presence on the team that can't be underestimated, but still.... a big risk. I would have preferred a lineup of Levi-Steinbach-EG-Williams/Andrews-Whit at RT, but so be it. I don't think that's the reason they've struggled... but it hasn't helped, for sure.

I do think that Andrews should be re-signed, since Willie will always be a risk from here on out.[/quote]

What people forget about Steinbach is that he's good enough to play C himself and could have served as Ghiaciuc's backup this season, with someone else taking over at guard.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='ueberj' post='612036' date='Dec 20 2007, 09:25 PM']What people forget about Steinbach is that he's good enough to play C himself and could have served as Ghiaciuc's backup this season, with someone else taking over at guard.[/quote]


just because he filled in a C for a game doesn't mean he can just become a center and be good at it. Also, 6'6" is quite tall for a center who you want to be able to get low and get leverage.


I've always thought Steinbach was too lean for a lineman. At 6'6" he should be more like 320lbs, not 295lbs.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='New Jersey Bengal' post='611806' date='Dec 20 2007, 11:59 AM'][b]I have become fed up with everyone saying how much of a mistake we made letting Steinbach go. Yes I agree he is a good player but I believe we made the right choice not paying him. Our offensive line has not been the same since Richie Braham was hurt vs the Browns during the second game of last year. He is the critical missing and I do not believe that Ghiaciuc has done that good of a job filling in for him. When Braham was missing last season and for that matter any game that he missed we were not efficient at running the ball. I know that Jonathan Joseph is going to be a good corner but we should have drafted Nick Mangold in the 2006 draft in round #1 as he is going to be an All Pro. He is a very cerebral player who has done a very very good job foir the Jets. ALso Willie was never really hurt before this season and I have seen many O Lineman play well into their upper 30's such as Willie Roaf and one other KC Chief who's name escapes me now. I also think Whitworth is going to turn out to be a better player than Steinbach. We need a cebter more than anything. And we had better sign sign Stacey Andrews because he is going to be a very very good player. Any thoughts?[/b][/quote]
I am fed up with bolded, run-on paragraphs!

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='cwing' post='611927' date='Dec 20 2007, 03:53 PM']Guy just needs to get stronger ---------- maybe he can, maybe he cannot. Nothing a little juice can't take care of !!!!

I am sure they had hoped Wilkerson could come back but I doubt highly they were counting on it. As mentioned, they drafted Guy first, signed Wilk later.

Needless to say, I agree 100%. I had no issue with letting Steiny walk for that kind of cash and Braham has big the biggest loss on that line.

I am also just as fed up with the blame game in general, especially in regards to the wide outs. Those two guys are the best part of this offense. If they weren't trying then how could one be a league leader in yds and the other in catches? Usually I like Lap but he was making comments that Cj & Tj were beginning to dislike each other --------- if so why are they always together on the bench? Why did Tj thank Cj for his help in getting to the probowl and why was Cj the first to call and wish Tj congrats?

The whole offense has struggled to some degree ------ wide outs, running game, O-line and QB play. Each and every one effects the other --------[/quote]
They aren't mad at each other...misery loves company...they are mad because we are losing (TJ), or because we are losing and the spotlight isn't shining on our supposed "brightest star" (Chad).
They both need to look in the mirror!

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Steinbach signing helped Browns, hurt Bengals[/b][/size]
Scott Petrak | The Chronicle-Telegram

BEREA — It’s too simplistic to say that Cleveland’s signing of left guard Eric Steinbach reversed the fortunes of the Bengals and the Browns in 2007.

But it definitely had an impact.

Steinbach was the Browns’ top free-agent pickup, agreeing to a seven-year, $49.5 million deal to leave the Bengals after four seasons. He immediately added credibility to a Browns offensive line that had long been a trouble spot.

“It has helped up tremendously,” coach Romeo Crennel said. “I think that kind of ability helped solidify the line along with adding Joe to that side. Those guys have developed into a pretty good left side.”

Step 2 of general manager Phil Savage’s plan to overhaul the line was drafting left tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall pick. Kevin Shaffer shifted to right tackle, center Hank Fraley was re-signed, and a weakness had become a strength.

The Browns have allowed just 17 sacks, 12 since Derek Anderson took over in the second quarter of the opener. The low for the Browns since they returned was 35 in 2002. The high was 60 in 1999.

Steinbach was named first alternate for the Pro Bowl on Tuesday.

“Every day, it doesn’t matter what’s wrong with him or what’s going on, he’s going to play well,” Fraley said. “He’s just a hard-working guy and gets his job done.”

The pairing of Steinbach and Thomas has created one of the most athletic tandems in the league. Neither carries much extra weight and both can get out and pull, which added a dimension to the running game.

Meanwhile, 250 miles south on I-71, the Bengals struggled without Steinbach’s versatility. He played guard and tackle for them, and they spent the first month of the season juggling their lineup.

“We miss him a lot. He was probably the most productive offensive lineman we had,” Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer said. “He brought a lot of attitude to the game and obviously athleticism, good feet and we ran screens with him very well and a power play with him very well.”

Cincinnati (5-9) has plenty of reasons for its unanticipated struggles. It was ravaged by injuries, including the entire linebacking corps. Palmer had an off year — for him — throwing 17 interceptions, which is on pace for a career high.

Running back Rudi Johnson was slowed by injury and averaged just 2.9 yards a carry.

“They’re just not winning games they expect to win,” Steinbach said, downplaying his role.
But the Steinbach factor can’t be dismissed. He was Cincinnati’s second-round pick out of Iowa in 2003 and started 62 games.

“When he left, it left them a hole,” said Browns defensive lineman Shaun Smith, who left Cincinnati for the Browns as a restricted free agent. “Losing a guy that knows your whole system, it’s hard to fill that role in one year.”

Stealing Steinbach from a division rival doubled the impact of the move – but that was just a fortunate byproduct, according to Crennel.

“You’re just looking for true talent,” he said. “If it happens to be from one of your division opponents and you’re able to get him, you’re in effect helping yourself and do hurt your opponent by taking one of their good players.

“I don’t know that we’re trying to hurt them as much as we’re trying to help ourselves and we knew that he’d be able to help us.”

[b]Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said they made an offer to keep Steinbach, but he wanted to test the market. Once that happened, Lewis expected him to leave.[/b]

“We definitely didn’t want to see him go anywhere inside the division,” Palmer said. “You knew that he was going to make another team better wherever he went because he is that good of a player. It’s tough to see him go, especially to our big, in-state rival.”

At 6-foot-6, 295 pounds, Steinbach is so lean for a guard it shocked Fraley when they met in March. But Steinbach proved that he doesn’t need girth to be successful.

“I put on the weight to overcome everything,” joked Fraley, 6-2, 315. “He’s strong. He’s a technician when it comes to the run game.”

Jamal Lewis has been the beneficiary, rushing for 1,084 yards.

“He’s able to pull and run and get up to the linebackers quicker than most of those 350-pound guards,” Lewis said. “He’s a great player, physical, plays much larger than what he is.

“He’s a great addition and it shows.”
On the Browns and Bengals.

Contact Scott Petrak at 329-7253 or spetrak@chroniclet.com.[/quote]


[url="http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/12/21/steinbach-signing-helped-browns-hurt-bengals"]http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/12/21/stein...ns-hurt-bengals[/url]

[|SF2|]

Losing Brahm sucked but he is 37(?) years old and we should have already been grooming someone to take his place. No excuse for that.

Fact is Cleveland drafting Joe Thomas first was a very intelligent move especially when you add Steinbach next to him to dominate one side of the O line. If Bentley comes back healthy, that will be one serious left side of the line for a long time.

I remember another team that did that and had tremendous success. I think the team had a tackle named Munoz and his neighbor was Reimers?? Center was ok too I believe.

Tired of hearing about Steinbach?? Better take a 5-10 year nap then.

[Ben]

Eric Steinbach does not push defensive tackles, they run away from him.

Eric Steinbach does not shower, he punches the Body odor off of himself.

Eric Steinbach does not drink to get drunk, he drinks to bring himself down to the playing level of his opponents.

[ThurmanMunster]

we made him an offer and he isnt worth anywhere near what he got paid. fuck him.

[New Jersey Bengal]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='612262' date='Dec 21 2007, 02:01 PM']we made him an offer and he isnt worth anywhere near what he got paid. fuck him.[/quote]
[b]1000% SPOT ON...WHITWORTH IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF O LINEMAN THAN HIM BUT HE IS BETTER THAN HIM...[/b]

[T-Dub]

I do wonder if the lack of a fast pulling guard at that spot has had something to do with the derailed running game.. Otherwise though in any other respect I'd definitely take Whit over Steiny.. Makes everyone else on the field look small...