Scoutforlife591 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='637553' date='Feb 29 2008, 10:55 PM']You're wrong. Olshansky is the same size as Warren and Seymour. Jamal Williams is bigger than Vince Wilfork. Castillo is the only smaller guy. Further, SD has bigger outside linebackers than NE. Your point that SD somehow has a "small" 3-4 is completely false.[/quote] Look Jenny Craig, you're only paying attention to weight, and you're only paying attention to one of my examples of there being different types of 3-4. The Patriots are big everywhere. If you recall this thread is about Antwan Odom, whereas it's important to understand him as a candidate for the 3-4. In the Patriots 3-4 style, I suggested it's not as likely he would fit. In the Chargers and moreso the other teams he could thrive. For instance, Luis Castillo's build (and in turn Canty and several other starting 34 DEs) would suggest that Odom could start (as he would be for us) and it wouldn't be that big of a stretch if he wasn't asked to play as stout a role as is called for by the Patriot's scheme. If you only pay attention to the position we were talking about, DE, BOTH San Diego players are smaller than the Patriots. Yeah, Jamaal Williams is huge, but the rest of his defense is not (as compared to the Patriots). And if you really want to know, the Chargers are on average 1 lbs lighter. (Not weighted for snaps played) I did the math. The Chargers are bigger up front (only because of Jamaal Williams) but smaller at linebacker. And if you compare how you see the teams play, the Chargers do play smaller, getting into the gaps far more often. (Not necessarily equating to more sacks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='Scoutforlife591' post='637681' date='Feb 29 2008, 11:58 PM']Look Jenny Craig, you're only paying attention to weight, and you're only paying attention to one of my examples of there being different types of 3-4. The Patriots are big everywhere. If you recall this thread is about Antwan Odom, whereas it's important to understand him as a candidate for the 3-4. In the Patriots 3-4 style, I suggested it's not as likely he would fit. In the Chargers and moreso the other teams he could thrive. For instance, Luis Castillo's build (and in turn Canty and several other starting 34 DEs) would suggest that Odom could start (as he would be for us) and it wouldn't be that big of a stretch if he wasn't asked to play as stout a role as is called for by the Patriot's scheme. If you only pay attention to the position we were talking about, DE, BOTH San Diego players are smaller than the Patriots. Yeah, Jamaal Williams is huge, but the rest of his defense is not (as compared to the Patriots). And if you really want to know, the Chargers are on average 1 lbs lighter. (Not weighted for snaps played) I did the math. The Chargers are bigger up front (only because of Jamaal Williams) but smaller at linebacker. And if you compare how you see the teams play, the Chargers do play smaller, getting into the gaps far more often. (Not necessarily equating to more sacks)[/quote] Castillo is 290 pounds and was a college defensive tackle. Olshansky is a legit 6-5 and 310 pounds. Ty Warren goes 6-5 and 300, while Richard Seymour is 6-6 and 310. Chris Canty is 6-7 and 300 pounds. Marcus Spears is 6-4 and 298. These are all much bigger guys than Odom at 275. Besides, Odom has never played inside in his life. He would be a terrible fit at DE in the 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='Bunghole' post='637283' date='Feb 29 2008, 07:54 PM']I'm terrified that this may actually be the seventh seal being broken that the Book Of Revelations was talking about. I hear trumpets outside....OH NO!!!!!! <<Rapture>>[/quote] yeah no worries... false alarm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal.BengalFan Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Odom is not a fit in a 3-4 defense. He played DE in college and the nfl. At 6-5 275 he is too small and not naturally strong enough to play 3-4 end and hes to big and slow to be a 3-4 linebacker. San Diego, and the Patriots have the same size players across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 i think a difference making DE would be more benefit than a DT, as having some linebackers in the middle, geathers one side and difference maker X other side would bring the pressure from all angles. but i guess a #9 overall draft pick can pickup the slack from any of the front 7 spots... should be interesting how things play out... certainly been and "exciting" first day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='SoCal.BengalFan' post='637708' date='Mar 1 2008, 12:18 AM']Odom is not a fit in a 3-4 defense. He played DE in college and the nfl. At 6-5 275 he is too small and not naturally strong enough to play 3-4 end and hes to big and slow to be a 3-4 linebacker. San Diego, and the Patriots have the same size players across the board.[/quote] i am thinking that we are going to be playing a 4-3 for whatever reason... and your right, signing odom would solidify that thought, b/c he is mainly a 4-3 guy only imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalrick Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='637712' date='Mar 1 2008, 12:20 AM']i think a difference making DE would be more benefit than a DT, as having some linebackers in the middle, geathers one side and difference maker X other side would bring the pressure from all angles. but i guess a #9 overall draft pick can pickup the slack from any of the front 7 spots... should be interesting how things play out... certainly been and "exciting" first day...[/quote] pollack on one side and geathers on the other would certainly be interesting... or put geathers at the monster LB, where pollack was originally drafted to play, if we get odom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote][ think a difference making DE would be more benefit than a DT, as having some linebackers in the middle, geathers one side and difference maker X other side would bring the pressure from all angles. but i guess a #9 overall draft pick can pickup the slack from any of the front 7 spots... should be interesting how things play out... certainly been and "exciting" first day... /quote] I couldn't disagree more about a Dt. And I think it was a shitty first day !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Odom would be a great signing. He's strictly a 4-3 guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unleashed Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 As disappointing as the Rogers deal ended up being, I think signing Odom will more than make up for the loss(if you could call it that since we never really had him) After picking up a guy like Sam Adams who had weight issues to begin with, coaches shouldn't have to worry about a guy coming back season after season out of shape. I'm sure that he would've been much more effective than Adams, but with criminal background and weight issues, Rogers seems like a hit or miss trade. I'm not sure of Odom's background, but the guy is just plain efficient at doing what he does. Having a guy with a "high motor" like justin smith doesn't mean shit if he can't put consistent pressure on the QB and we would have that if we can get a deal done Sunday. Please, please, please don't fuck this up Mikey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='637230' date='Feb 29 2008, 07:57 PM']Anyone know if he's visited anywhere else?[/quote] Cincy is his first visit. TV etc. here in Nashville would have you believe The Bengals are the only team interested.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Im not sold on Odom for big bucks.. 8 sacks as a starter....more importantly only 21 total tackles.... He may be coming into his own and then again he may be a poor investment... I like the idea of Dwayne Robertson of the Jets playing tackle in a 4-3 and the team drafting a Merling or Calais Campbell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='claptonrocks' post='637764' date='Mar 1 2008, 04:05 AM']Im not sold on Odom for big bucks.. 8 sacks as a starter....more importantly only 21 total tackles.... He may be coming into his own and then again he may be a poor investment... I like the idea of Dwayne Robertson of the Jets playing tackle in a 4-3 and the team drafting a Merling or Calais Campbell....[/quote] He actually wasn't a starter. Split duty with Travis LeBoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 At this point, landing Odom and potentially Robertson would be very solid investments, imo. At that point, though, could they really consider going 3-4 at all? I know the plan is to mix it up, but these guys are definitely better suited for the 4-3. Sorry...I'm just thinking "out loud" here. I guess I'd have to give up my dream of signing Calvin Pace and would have to settle for Briggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoBengal9 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Upgrade from Justin Smith, I think the rest of the Titans D-line helped him but I think it would be a solid move. Plus, I like his age...he's got room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='claptonrocks' post='637764' date='Mar 1 2008, 04:05 AM']Im not sold on Odom for big bucks.. 8 sacks as a starter....more importantly only 21 total tackles.... He may be coming into his own and then again he may be a poor investment... I like the idea of Dwayne Robertson of the Jets playing tackle in a 4-3 and the team drafting a Merling or Calais Campbell....[/quote] Odom was a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dacow Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 No worries mate. Remember the last back up Titan Dlineman we signed. He tore it up........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutforlife591 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='637701' date='Mar 1 2008, 12:13 AM']Castillo is 290 pounds and was a college defensive tackle. Olshansky is a legit 6-5 and 310 pounds. Ty Warren goes 6-5 and 300, while Richard Seymour is 6-6 and 310. Chris Canty is 6-7 and 300 pounds. Marcus Spears is 6-4 and 298. These are all much bigger guys than Odom at 275. Besides, Odom has never played inside in his life. He would be a terrible fit at DE in the 3-4.[/quote] You don't need to cite which player played what in college, I know. You're completely surrounding your argument with weights, and when I pointed out that not even the weights support your arguement, you take it upon yourself to change them? Canty was a 279 lbs college 3-4 DE. Odom is a 274 lbs NFL Left or Base DE. Their frames are a little different, but they are both long enough to diesengage, and I suspect Odom could easily gain the weight. It's highly unlikely he's 274 because he can't gain anymore weight, but because 4-3 DEs see a decrease in their pass rush if they get a lot heavier than that. Convenient of you to forget to list guys like Brett Keisel and Shaun Ellis, at 285. Then the fact that some 3-4s put their truer DEs on 1 side or another, some acquire and start guys at well above 300 at 2+ positions, that you have REALLY tall guys, and then your 6'1" guys at any combination of positions, (my original point about different 3-4 schemes) that there are a host of backups behind these guys that don't carry 300 lbs weight (even if a lot of them are). Then there are the Cardinals, who were all messed up with injuries and their resulting switch, but ended up having a pretty decent defense anyway. Two guys, at 282 and 285 getting reps at 3-4. (And the Dolphins were in the mix). Darnell Dockett isn't exactly regarded as a 2 gapping anchor. If I had to guess, we'd be the closest to the Cardinals on how our D would look under the 3-4 regardless of Odom. Such that Odom, or a guy like Odom, who has a litle room to grow, and can hold a little ground when asked to do so, could work in our version of the 3-4. Furthermore, the indications point to a hybrid 3-4, with two coaches who are experienced in it, but are generally 4-3 guys. I suspect if we do switch, you'll see Geathers doing a lot of transitioning like LaVar Arrington in 2003 form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='unleashed' post='637753' date='Mar 1 2008, 02:10 AM']As disappointing as the Rogers deal ended up being, I think signing Odom will more than make up for the loss(if you could call it that since we never really had him) After picking up a guy like Sam Adams who had weight issues to begin with, coaches shouldn't have to worry about a guy coming back season after season out of shape. I'm sure that he would've been much more effective than Adams, but with criminal background and weight issues, Rogers seems like a hit or miss trade. I'm not sure of Odom's background, but the guy is just plain efficient at doing what he does. Having a guy with a "high motor" like justin smith doesn't mean shit if he can't put consistent pressure on the QB and we would have that if we can get a deal done Sunday. Please, please, please don't fuck this up Mikey!![/quote] odom won't do shit if we don't improve our fucked up DT situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Odom would be nice, but it's a move I can take or leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='SoCal.BengalFan' post='637708' date='Mar 1 2008, 12:18 AM']San Diego, and the Patriots have the same size players across the board.[/quote] My point exactly. If anyone cares to check out these guys listed sizes, have at it. [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg/roster"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg/roster[/url] [url="http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/"]http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/[/url] [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster[/url] [url="http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=rosters&print=yes"]http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=...s&print=yes[/url] Scout, your just wrong about San Diego versus New England. Just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutforlife591 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='637917' date='Mar 1 2008, 12:45 PM']My point exactly. If anyone cares to check out these guys listed sizes, have at it. [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg/roster"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg/roster[/url] [url="http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/"]http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/[/url] [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster"]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster[/url] [url="http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=rosters&print=yes"]http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=...s&print=yes[/url] Scout, your just wrong about San Diego versus New England. Just plain wrong.[/quote] Again, your argument is "look at the weights" backed up with the critical thinking logic of "your just wrong." And all this is in one microcosm of my original comment, that there are different 3-4s. If you can't see that when comparing the Chargers and Patriots, then do it with another team. Odom [i]could [/i]play it. He could be great, he could be bad. I'd guess it likely that he'll be average like he is now, or would be used in a more traditional 4-3 role inside of our 3-4. (3rd down) 3 weeks ago it was a universal thought that Justin Smith couldn't play in a 3-4. So much so he was personally quoted as saying he wasn't a fit for it. [b]Now look[/b]. We don't know what spot he'll play, (DE or OLB), but he plays 3-4 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Locally the word is The Titans are very confident that unless some team dramatically overpays Odom that they can match (and they do have the money) and Odom stays put. Odom has said publicly he wants to remain here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 [quote name='BENGALS666' post='637983' date='Mar 1 2008, 01:55 PM']Locally the word is The Titans are very confident that unless some team dramatically overpays Odom that they can match (and they do have the money) and Odom stays put. Odom has said publicly he wants to remain here.[/quote] This doesn't make sense. If Odom agreed to let the Titans match another team's offer why would he come to Cincinnati instead of Minnesota or Tampa? I think he is visiting Cincinnati as a genuine potential signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 [quote name='sparky151' post='638111' date='Mar 1 2008, 05:56 PM']This doesn't make sense. If Odom agreed to let the Titans match another team's offer why would he come to Cincinnati instead of Minnesota or Tampa? I think he is visiting Cincinnati as a genuine potential signing.[/quote] The Bengals were the first to show interest, then The Cards. With other names off the queue I'm sure the potential for other suitors is increasing. Waiting it out is The Titans style, eg Chris Brown, Travis Henry.. Sometimes it pays off for them other times it doesn't.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.