mongo Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1295830277' post='964435'] is that all you get from a college education nowadays? [/quote] As much fun as it is taking cheap shots at someone, let's not bash a guy too much for informal speech in a twitter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [b] [size="5"][b]Bengals Without Palmer? You Better Believe It[/b] [b]ESPN: Palmer Wants Trade, Willing To Retire[/b] [/size] CINCINNATI -- [/b]So Carson Palmer becomes the latest player to want out of NFL purgatory and hope his talents can shine with another team. At least that is the gist of a report from ESPN reporter Chris Mortensen. Mortensen cites "several sources", unnamed of course, that Palmer will ask the Bengals for a trade; and if he doesn't get a trade, Carson is ready to take his erratic right arm and go home. I believe the report. My antennae on Carson went up when he admitted late in the season he could see himself playing for another team next season. He had never said anything close to that before. When he ducked the media the day after the season ended, my antennae went up another notch. That was not like Carson Palmer -- something was up. There are more concrete reasons I believe the report. First of all, there is no denial from the Palmer camp, and Palmer is a guy who doesn't like false information about himself to be running wild across the media spectrum. Then there is the national media angle to this. Players, coaches, general mangers and even some owners use to the national media to pass along their message. That message hits a national website or a national pregame show and immediately millions and millions of eyeballs and ears have received the message. Sometimes this method is used to apply pressure to one of the parties involved. Think back to the Marvin Lewis madness a couple of weeks ago. I believe Adam Schefter of ESPN was used as a tool by the Lewis camp to put pressure on Bengals owner Mike Brown. I'm not sure it worked, but that is the way the game is played in 2011. I also believe the report because Palmer simply seems like a guy who has had enough. "Bengalized" is what we call it in Cincinnati. It happens to very good players who find themselves in a situation where they can't reach their fullest potential. They become tired of the lack of quality free agents joining them, the lack of a consistent system, the lack of teammates being told to get in line or get out of town and the lack of coaches being held accountable. Nowhere in the world would a team finish a season 4-12 and the entire coaching staff would still be intact. But it happens here. Maybe it is time for Carson to go. He hasn't helped the team with his inconsistent play. Just think back to the end of the final game of the season against Baltimore. He fumbled away a first down without getting hit, then misfired badly with a pass on fourth and goal. He is not the same quarterback he was in 2005. Some say it has to do with a bad elbow, some feel he has been gun-shy since his knee was shredded in the playoff game against the Steelers five years ago and some say the offensive line hasn't given him a chance. But for all of his warts, it will get uglier if he leaves. If Carson doesn't want to be the quarterback here, then who does? Only a desperate veteran signal caller without better choices. Think back to Jay Schroeder, Neil O'Donnell, Scott Mitchell and Gus Frerotte. They were the desperation "Hail Mary" signings by the Bengals in the dark ages of the early 1990's and through the time Palmer was drafted in 2003. Now the trick is to make sure Palmer's departure doesn't bring about those dark ages again. [url="http://www.wlwt.com/r/26590221/detail.html"]http://www.wlwt.com/r/26590221/detail.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='westside bengal' timestamp='1295827401' post='964406'] If Carson wanting to leave is true why is everyone assuming it is because he wants Brat out? Maybe he wanted Lewis out. Brat has been his only NFL OC. Maybe he thinks Brat is getting scapegoated. Wasn't there something between Marvin and Carson a few games back when the game was expiring and Carson had to call time out to stop the clock. I thought Marvin sort of thru Carson under the bus saying something like he didn't need to worry about clock management? [/quote] I don't see how Marvin is that out of tune with Carson. Marvin signs an extension. The next day declares without a doubt that Palmer is his QB. Certainly Marvin must have known his chances on Brat returning the day he signed and he certainly must have a sense of the frustrations of Carson if it is with Brat. He also certainly must know the organizations thoughts on Carson as well when he signed. Just doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1295831708' post='964457'] I don't see how Marvin is that out of tune with Carson. Marvin signs an extension. The next day declares without a doubt that Palmer is his QB. Certainly Marvin must have known his chances on Brat returning the day he signed and he certainly must have a sense of the frustrations of Carson if it is with Brat. He also certainly must know the organizations thoughts on Carson as well when he signed. Just doesn't add up. [/quote] I think it does. I won't expound because I have no evidence.. Suffice to say MB truly has no cards, and all the chips are in the middle of the table... I don't know MB very well, but I certainly hope he knows folding is his only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295832129' post='964463'] I think it does. I won't expound because I have no evidence.. Suffice to say MB truly has no cards, and all the chips are in the middle of the table... I don't know MB very well, but I certainly hope he knows folding is his only option. [/quote] Like I said, if there is a "folding" (which I believe there will be), it won't come for at least a week or two. Need time for all the denials/clarifications to trickle in. Then, there will be the "changes" every one thinks there should be. And, it will give MB an opportunity to say: "see...didn't I tell you a month ago we would not be sitting still?" A month from now, this will be a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1295831240' post='964443'] I know nothing about bengalsinsider.com or whatever that site is, but I would tend to agree with their assertion that CP has probably asked to "explore" other opportunities because he's unhappy with the current situation of the franchise and ESPN took their own liberties to add the "OMG Palmer DEMANDS a trade and THREATENS to retire." My take for those who hate the fact that the Steelers and Jets are the two remaining AFC teams so much that they'd rather read this message board than pay attention to the game: 1. I love CP and really want to see him get an opportunity to run a different offense before I decide if he's got what it takes to win a Super Bowl for the Bengals. It would really be a shame to end his career on this sort of note because change in this organization is so long overdue, you're franchise's best player shouldn't have to threaten retirement to get it. [color="#0000FF"]Definitely agree![/color] 2. I would hate to draft a QB #4. We're in a position to have a GREAT DL next year if we could add Bowers or Fairley or Quinn or Dareus. Drafting one of these sorry ass QBs at the top of this draft class would be a disaster. [color="#0000FF"]I'd still take the best defensive guy as my #4 pick. We are going to suck without Carson next year no matter who we draft to replace him this year. Might as well suck anyway and have a chance for Luck next year.[/color] 3. If he really would retire rather than play next year...Here's rooting for a lockout. Give CP a year to think about it and give us a shot at a better QB in 2012 if we need to take one with the 4th pick. 4. Fuck you Mike Brown. Only you could be so fucking awful at your job that my favorite player would rather retire than play for the shit-hole organization you run. Where is the grim reaper when you need him? [color="#000080"]x1000[/color] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1295832472' post='964467'] Like I said, if there is a "folding" (which I believe there will be), it won't come for at least a week or two. Need time for all the denials/clarifications to trickle in. Then, there will be the "changes" every one thinks there should be. And, it will give MB an opportunity to say: "see...didn't I tell you a month ago we would not be sitting still?" A month from now, this will be a non-issue. [/quote] Agreed.. Another thing I am fairly certain of, ML will not see another extension regardless of how well he does (assuming of course Mike is still running things in 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295832129' post='964463'] I think it does. I won't expound because I have no evidence.. Suffice to say MB truly has no cards, and all the chips are in the middle of the table... I don't know MB very well, but I certainly hope he knows folding is his only option. [/quote] I would say MB has all the cards as all key players in the speculation are under contract. MB's doesn't care about public perception and his can't get much lower anyway. What are people going to do? Say he's a horrible GM. Point out his career record? Form boycotts? Rent Billboards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmishBengalFan Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have two unopened Palmer Fatheads if anyone within reasonable driving distance wants one. Probably need to be in or near the Bloomington-Dayton-Cincinnati triangle to meet me one day this Spring, or be willing to pay postage. I think they're this one... [img]http://www.icie2.com/img/035/carson-palmer-fathead.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Finklestein Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295832628' post='964471'] Agreed.. Another thing I am fairly certain of, ML will not see another extension regardless of how well he does (assuming of course Mike is still running things in 2 years. [/quote] Yeah it does seem as though ML has gone "all-in". Of course if he wins the big prize, or even goes fairly deep in the next two playoffs, all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianBengal Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Might as well go with some guy off the scrapheap next year at QB, go 2-14 and draft Andrew Luck. Then the can Bengals ruin his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1295831520' post='964450'] [b] [size="5"][b]Bengals Without Palmer? You Better Believe It[/b] [b]ESPN: Palmer Wants Trade, Willing To Retire[/b] [/size] CINCINNATI -- [/b]So Carson Palmer becomes the latest player to want out of NFL purgatory and hope his talents can shine with another team. At least that is the gist of a report from ESPN reporter Chris Mortensen. Mortensen cites "several sources", unnamed of course, that Palmer will ask the Bengals for a trade; and if he doesn't get a trade, Carson is ready to take his erratic right arm and go home. I believe the report. My antennae on Carson went up when he admitted late in the season he could see himself playing for another team next season. He had never said anything close to that before. When he ducked the media the day after the season ended, my antennae went up another notch. That was not like Carson Palmer -- something was up. There are more concrete reasons I believe the report. First of all, there is no denial from the Palmer camp, and Palmer is a guy who doesn't like false information about himself to be running wild across the media spectrum. Then there is the national media angle to this. Players, coaches, general mangers and even some owners use to the national media to pass along their message. That message hits a national website or a national pregame show and immediately millions and millions of eyeballs and ears have received the message. Sometimes this method is used to apply pressure to one of the parties involved. Think back to the Marvin Lewis madness a couple of weeks ago. I believe Adam Schefter of ESPN was used as a tool by the Lewis camp to put pressure on Bengals owner Mike Brown. I'm not sure it worked, but that is the way the game is played in 2011. I also believe the report because Palmer simply seems like a guy who has had enough. "Bengalized" is what we call it in Cincinnati. It happens to very good players who find themselves in a situation where they can't reach their fullest potential. They become tired of the lack of quality free agents joining them, the lack of a consistent system, the lack of teammates being told to get in line or get out of town and the lack of coaches being held accountable. Nowhere in the world would a team finish a season 4-12 and the entire coaching staff would still be intact. But it happens here. Maybe it is time for Carson to go. He hasn't helped the team with his inconsistent play. Just think back to the end of the final game of the season against Baltimore. He fumbled away a first down without getting hit, then misfired badly with a pass on fourth and goal. He is not the same quarterback he was in 2005. Some say it has to do with a bad elbow, some feel he has been gun-shy since his knee was shredded in the playoff game against the Steelers five years ago and some say the offensive line hasn't given him a chance. But for all of his warts, it will get uglier if he leaves. If Carson doesn't want to be the quarterback here, then who does? Only a desperate veteran signal caller without better choices. Think back to Jay Schroeder, Neil O'Donnell, Scott Mitchell and Gus Frerotte. They were the desperation "Hail Mary" signings by the Bengals in the dark ages of the early 1990's and through the time Palmer was drafted in 2003. Now the trick is to make sure Palmer's departure doesn't bring about those dark ages again. [url="http://www.wlwt.com/r/26590221/detail.html"]http://www.wlwt.com/r/26590221/detail.html[/url] [/quote] I don't agree with all of it, but this is the most well written piece I've seen by a local in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaverHunter Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I honestly love this. Glad someone is fed up with this piss poor franchise and voicing it.…super glad that it is the franchise's franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Cat Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1295832472' post='964467'] Like I said, if there is a "folding" (which I believe there will be), it won't come for at least a week or two. Need time for all the denials/clarifications to trickle in. Then, there will be the "changes" every one thinks there should be. And, it will give MB an opportunity to say: "see...didn't I tell you a month ago we would not be sitting still?" A month from now, this will be a non-issue. [/quote] Have always valued your opinion LT.......since way back in the Cincy Talk days. Sure hope ur right on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295832129' post='964463'] I think it does. I won't expound because I have no evidence.. Suffice to say MB truly has no cards, and all the chips are in the middle of the table... I don't know MB very well, but I certainly hope he knows folding is his only option. [/quote] What are you talking about? MB holds ALL of the cards. He owns the checkbook. If Carson wants out he can trade him or let him retire per his "reported" threat. Carson is replaceable. He is good but not great. If Carson actually retired MB could draft Cam Newton and fill the stadium full of more Sheople for a few seasons. He already makes plenty of money due to revenue sharing so why should he give a rats ass if Carson becomes the next Pickens, Spikes, Dillon etc..? How did he treat Boomer when all the cards were on the table? The only person that has anything to lose is Lewis. Without Carson and no viable experienced QB in the wings Lewis and company will have to train a new QB to take over. That probably wont make for a good season and unless it is Newton, I can see many an empty seat next year. Not saying Newton will be good just he will bring bodies to the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1295833373' post='964483'] What are you talking about? MB holds ALL of the cards. He owns the checkbook. If Carson wants out he can trade him or let him retire per his "reported" threat. Carson is replaceable. He is good but not great. If Carson actually retired MB could draft Cam Newton and fill the stadium full of more Sheople for a few seasons. He already makes plenty of money due to revenue sharing so why should he give a rats ass if Carson becomes the next Pickens, Spikes, Dillon etc..? How did he treat Boomer when all the cards were on the table? The only person that has anything to lose is Lewis. Without Carson and no viable experienced QB in the wings Lewis and company will have to train a new QB to take over. That probably wont make for a good season and unless it is Newton, I can see many an empty seat next year. Not saying Newton will be good just he will bring bodies to the stadium. [/quote] We see this differently, and I would be willing to bet Mike does as well.. He doesn't like having his hand forced and will resist it for stubbornness sake alone.. If there is a perceived change in direction can we agree it makes my supposition more likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hobnob updated his piece adding this: If Palmer does indeed seek a trade, there is a trading window of only about a month before the collective bargaining agreement is set to expire March 4. According to NFL.com, Palmer gets $11.5 million in 2011 and 2012, $13 million in 2013 and $14 million in 2014. He has $1 million roster bonuses in 2012, 2013 and 2014. Here's my take: I think it's a combination of things: First, I think he's getting heat from home and his wife supports the notion of retirement. She probably doesn't want to raise the kids in Cincy so far away from their families in CA. And, for the first time, Palmer and his family had to deal with the ugly public, which angered and scared both of them. Next, I think Carson wants Chad gone and he didn't like the talk of Chad is under contract and isn't going anywhere. Lastly, it appears to Carson that next year is status quo with no coaching changes and same old same old. So, after months of coming home and bitching to his wife, who would rather not be in Cincy anyway, she finally pushed him to do something about it. If true, which no one is denying, I think his mind is made up and it's over. Remember Elvis Grabac? PS. Jordan just got cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1295832472' post='964467'] Like I said, if there is a "folding" (which I believe there will be), it won't come for at least a week or two. Need time for all the denials/clarifications to trickle in. Then, there will be the "changes" every one thinks there should be. And, it will give MB an opportunity to say: "see...didn't I tell you a month ago we would not be sitting still?" A month from now, this will be a non-issue. [/quote] Carson will be an issue through the entire season. His salary is high and his play is questionable. What if it gets leaked that the exploration of trade talks came as a response to a pay cut? I think this being solely about Brat is possible. Seems kinda easy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1295833967' post='964496'] Carson will be an issue through the entire season. His salary is high and his play is questionable. What if it gets leaked that the exploration of trade talks came as a response to a pay cut? I think this being solely about Brat is possible. Seems kinda easy though. [/quote] Not solely I would wager... More about direction than any particular head.. But it seems the way lies through Brat's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295833759' post='964489'] We see this differently, and I would be willing to bet Mike does as well.. He doesn't like having his hand forced and will resist it for stubbornness sake alone.. If there is a perceived change in direction can we agree it makes my supposition more likely? [/quote] If there is serious change I will agree with you. Replacing Brat with Brad Childress is not serious change in my mind. The guy didn't even call the offensive plays in Philly and was hated by his players in MINN. I would rather keep Brat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1295834306' post='964499'] If there is serious change I will agree with you. Replacing Brat with Brad Childress is not serious change in my mind. The guy didn't even call the offensive plays in Philly and was hated by his players in MINN. I would rather keep Brat. [/quote] Well then your expectations are irrational... Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295834074' post='964497'] Not solely I would wager... More about direction than any particular head.. But it seems the way lies through Brat's job. [/quote] First it's Marvin that doesn't like Brat and surely he'd be gone in order for Marvin to return. Now it's apparent Brat is still here and the only chance of him leaving or even taking another role is if the right hire is there. Which is pure speculation of course. Now Carson is going get the job done by getting Brat out of town? Meanwhile Hobson posts Bengals are the hook for 37+ million the next 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1295834630' post='964502'] Well then your expectations are irrational... Oh well. [/quote] Nah, it's truly sad that the big move has become solely about Brat being gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1295833373' post='964483'] What are you talking about? MB holds ALL of the cards. He owns the checkbook. If Carson wants out he can trade him or let him retire per his "reported" threat. Carson is replaceable. He is good but not great. If Carson actually retired MB could draft Cam Newton and fill the stadium full of more Sheople for a few seasons. He already makes plenty of money due to revenue sharing so why should he give a rats ass if Carson becomes the next Pickens, Spikes, Dillon etc..? How did he treat Boomer when all the cards were on the table? The only person that has anything to lose is Lewis. Without Carson and no viable experienced QB in the wings Lewis and company will have to train a new QB to take over. That probably wont make for a good season and unless it is Newton, I can see many an empty seat next year. Not saying Newton will be good just he will bring bodies to the stadium. [/quote] We need to concentrate on drafting the best defensive players this draft and no matter what happens, ...punt on trying to fill the QB role this draft. We don't need these QB's this draft but we definitely need to strengthen our D into one of the top 5 in the league. I say build a stingy defense, ...forget anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1295834772' post='964503'] First it's Marvin that doesn't like Brat and surely he'd be gone in order for Marvin to return. Now it's apparent Brat is still here and the only chance of him leaving or even taking another role is if the right hire is there. Which is pure speculation of course. Now Carson is going get the job done by getting Brat out of town? [b]Meanwhile Hobson posts Bengals are the hook for 37+ million the next 3 years.[/b] [/quote] that's his salary over the next 3 years, but unless there was false information out awhile back, none of its guaranteed. The Bengals aren't cutting Carson, but if they did they wouldn't owe him a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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