Carson Wants Out

[B.A.B.]

this shits getting personal for no reason. anyways..

the fact that carson is speaking out really means a lot. the guy doesnt do stuff like this. its quite simple. theres something really wrong with the organization.

[BengalsNYC]

[quote name='B.A.B.' timestamp='1295865296' post='964717']
this shits getting personal for no reason. anyways..

the fact that carson is speaking out really means a lot. the guy doesnt do stuff like this. [b]its quite simple. theres something really wrong with the organization.[/b]
[/quote]

Nothing new there. What is new is that the push back appears to be coming from WITHIN the organization now. First Marvin is demanding change and now CP appears fed up by the lack of it. Carson has quite a good deal of leverage and will be very interesting to see how MB deals with this.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Yanks' timestamp='1295860473' post='964714']
Big fucking deal. Maintaining and coding a board like this is shit a kid in 6th grade can do.

No one else I'm sure on here has gone through such monumental struggles as having kids or job issues or family bullshit... must be a real struggle. Go is a fucking internet bully and thinks that berating people either makes him tough or not fat or successful. Fail x3.

Imagine a picture of GoDanFran with Brats dick in their mouths. Now replace their mouth with yours and Go's dick. Same fucking thing. This site is so pathetic it's stunning. The silly little 'like you matter' drama makes me read this site every few days though so keep it up.

For the record FUCK BRAT and his delusional little brainwashed minion ball hummers + overly entitled kin. Queers.
[/quote]

Piss off, asshole.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='Yanks' timestamp='1295860473' post='964714']
Big fucking deal. Maintaining and coding a board like this is shit a kid in 6th grade can do.

No one else I'm sure on here has gone through such monumental struggles as having kids or job issues or family bullshit... must be a real struggle. Go is a fucking internet bully and thinks that berating people either makes him tough or not fat or successful. Fail x3.

Imagine a picture of GoDanFran with Brats dick in their mouths. Now replace their mouth with yours and Go's dick. Same fucking thing. This site is so pathetic it's stunning. The silly little 'like you matter' drama makes me read this site every few days though so keep it up.

For the record FUCK BRAT and his delusional little brainwashed minion ball hummers + overly entitled kin. Queers.
[/quote]


[img]http://images0.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/3824035/YO-DAWG-SHIT-JUST-GOT-REAL.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=XZIBIT[/img]

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size="5"][b]Carson Palmer calling Bengals' bluff?[/b][/size]

Trade demand might force changes Brown, Lewis unwilling to make

BY PAUL DAUGHERTY • PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM • JANUARY 23, 2011

CINCINNATI -- When The Franchise says he wants out, you can’t paper over your issues, the way the Bengals have so far this offseason. Marvin Lewis can’t “fix us’’ when Us says he’d rather retire than play again for the misguided local 11.


This is so unlike Carson Palmer, you wonder what’s real and what’s posing. ESPN has reported Palmer wants to be traded and if he isn’t, will retire. How bad is it really down at PBS when the quarterback suggests that retiring is a better option than returning to play for the Bengals?

Rome-on-the-Ohio burns. Lewis and Mike Brown fiddle. When it comes to Bengals earthquakes, this is as seismic as it gets.


This isn’t the wide receiver formerly known as Johnson, conducting an offseason trade-me blitz in the media. It was easy for Brown to call Eight-Five’s bluff. This is Carson Palmer, Great Soldier, who has never popped off publicly, whose only lobbying has been behind the scenes, in the offseason, for the good of all. There’s also the matter of Palmer being QB1. Like him or not, Nine is so clearly No. 1 on the depth chart, No. 2 isn’t even on the board.

Given Palmer’s demeanor and personality, the Bengals have to take him seriously. What his motivation is, is a mystery. It doesn’t matter. You think things were dreadful last fall? Imagine next fall, without Nine.

For Palmer to take this route, he has to be as fed up as the fans. About what is anybody’s guess. Palmer could power-play his way to a change in the offensive coaching staff. He could have an opinion on current offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski. He could have an opinion on potential offensive coordinator Brad Childress, in town last week for dinner with Lewis.

(By the way, why do you dine with Childress in such a public place, Jeff Ruby’s downtown, when less than a week later, your entire coaching staff is heading to the Senior Bowl? Regardless of what you think of Bratkowski, is it necessary to embarrass him this way?)

Palmer also could be tired of taking hits, in the backfield and out. Prima donna wideouts running bad routes, cutting routes short and free-lancing generally has made for lots of interceptions for which Palmer has assumed blame. There has been a shortage of players and coaches speaking on his behalf.

The unsettled labor situation doesn’t help. Trades can’t be made without a new collective bargaining agreement. No one is predicting when that might happen. There would be a few teams very interested in an erstwhile Pro Bowl QB in his prime, though. How about every team but San Diego that is close to Palmer’s San Diego County home?

His USC coach Pete Carroll could use him in Seattle. Hue Jackson, who recruited him to Southern Cal, might be interested in Oakland. San Francisco and Arizona need quarterbacks. Worst-case scenario: Mike Brown doesn’t trade him, Palmer makes good on his pledge and stays out, Brown’s hand is forced midway through next year. So long, another Bengals season.

Bengals ownership is reaping what it sows. Its faithful ability to do the wrong thing has alienated fans and sparked jokes nationally for years. Now, the willful mismanagement is getting to players. Palmer ought not to be derided for his demand; he should be praised. It’s one thing for paying customers to grumble. As Lewis once noted, fans aren’t “invested’’ in the team. It’s quite another for your starting quarterback to do the same.

You could suggest that Palmer’s supposed willingness to walk away from the last three years – and $50 million – of his contract indicates a lack of football passion. You could say the Bengals got him the receivers he needed to return to his 2005 form, and that he continued to be an average-at-best QB.[/quote]


(Follow link for the rest of the article)

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110123/COL03/301230012

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size="5"][b]Carson Palmer demands trade from Bengals, ESPN reports[/b][/size]

BY JOE REEDY • JREEDY@ENQUIRER.COM • JANUARY 23, 2011

Bengals coach Marvin Lewis has talked about overhauling his offense next season. He might be doing it without the quarterback he has counted on since arriving in Cincinnati in 2003.



On Sunday, ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, citing unidentified sources, reported on ESPN’s the network’s NFL Countdown show that quarterback Carson Palmer will ask the Bengals for a trade and would contemplate retirement if the team doesn’t comply.

Trade rumors about Palmer sprouted up during the final month of the season. When asked if he could see saw himself playing for another team, Palmer said, “Yeah. Anything’s possible. This is a business and anything can happen in business.”

This past season put a strain on the normally unflappable Palmer. He set a team record for pass attempts with 586, completing 362 (61.8 percent) for 3,970 yards with 26 touchdowns. But he also had 20 interceptions – with five returned for touchdowns. The interceptions tied a career high. He also had three fumbles.

Besides having to deal with receivers Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens, Palmer also had foot, shoulder and hip injuries that caused him to miss practices. His status before the Miami and Jets games was largely in doubt until the previous day.

Over the past two seasons, Palmer has directed an offense that has finished 20th or worst. In four games this past season he had a passer rating under 60.

Since reaching a two-year extension to return as coach, Marvin Lewis has made a point of supporting Palmer. This past Thursday Lewis said: "We can’t allow anyone to steal Carson’s thunder. We’ve taken some bullets but we’re still battle buddies. I have to make sure I keep him a good situation."

Some have said that Palmer would prefer returning to the west coast, which would put Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco and Oakland in play. If Palmer would go to the Seahawks, it would be a reunion with former Southern Cal coach Pete Carroll, while Oakland is now led by Hue Jackson, who was here for three seasons as receivers coach.

If anyone wanted to make a trade for Palme, r they would have to take on the remaining four years of the contract that carries a base of $50 million with $1 roster bonuses in 2012, ’13 and ’14. It’s also possible a team could renegotiate Palmer’s contract once a trade was agreed to.

It’s also possible that Palmer is trying to make a public ultimatum about an overhaul to the offense and its coaching staff. Lewis has said it is possible staff changes could still occur after the team returns from coaching the Senior Bowl. Last Thursday former Vikings head coach Brad Childress had dinner with Lewis and then met with team officials on Friday. He was not on the Bengals plane to Mobile but could still be there since the Senior Bowl serves as an unofficial job fair for coaches out of work.

As for the rest of the skill players, running back Cedric Benson and Owens are unrestricted free agents. Ochocinco is under contract, but odds aren’t good that he will be back.

Ochocinco, who demanded a trade three years ago, tweeted: "Carson Palmer demands a trade? Last person demanded a trade in Cincy was crucified by the media n had to win the fans back, how will this go?"

Even with a trade demand, nothing can be accomplished until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached. Mike Brown has also been known to play hardball when it comes to trade demands as evidenced by the Ochocinco saga in ’08.

If the Bengals would have to target a quarterback with the fourth overall pick in this year’s draft, the top three candidates would be Auburn’s Cam Newton, Washington’s Jake Locker and Arkansas’ Ryan Mallett. The Bengals will get an up close look at Locker this week as he is on the North team for the Senior Bowl.[/quote]


(follow link for full article)

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110123/SPT02/301230048/

[BengalsNYC]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1295876010' post='964726']
(Follow link for the rest of the article)

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110123/COL03/301230012
[/quote]

Never good when I start agreeing w/ Paul Daugherty.

[|Harley|]

[quote name='Yanks' timestamp='1295860473' post='964714']
Big fucking deal. Maintaining and coding a board like this is shit a kid in 6th grade can do.

No one else I'm sure on here has gone through such monumental struggles as having kids or job issues or family bullshit... must be a real struggle. Go is a fucking internet bully and thinks that berating people either makes him tough or not fat or successful. Fail x3.

Imagine a picture of GoDanFran with Brats dick in their mouths. Now replace their mouth with yours and Go's dick. Same fucking thing. This site is so pathetic it's stunning. The silly little 'like you matter' drama makes me read this site every few days though so keep it up.

For the record FUCK BRAT and his delusional little brainwashed minion ball hummers + overly entitled kin. Queers.
[/quote]

GO certainly can be a prick but he shouldn't have to read this shit. This is where a ban would be justified. You should go off and start your own board, that is if you've passed 5th grade.

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='bengals8580' timestamp='1295844099' post='964663']
How do you know? Please let me in on your inside information?
[/quote]

Common sense. In the coming months we will find out that he did know all about his fathers scam, he will lose his Heisman trophy, Auburn will be forced to give back the National Championship trophy etc. He is a run first quarterback which as history has shown do not translate well at the next level. He's a Liar, He doesn't understand how to read defenses it has been every analyst's biggest criticism of him, and he is an inaccurate passer.

Cam Newton is nothing more than a cross between Vince Young and Jamarcus Russell. Espn is sucking him off like they did Young, but he has the negative image like Russell. If we draft him with the #4 overall pick due to Palmer truly wanting out, he will have to start (provided we dont bring in veteran help and we likely will) and he will fail miserably. He would be playing two of the most complex defenses twice a year (see he doesn't understand how to read defenses) Bottom line, he is a project QB at best. Running all over the place in College works, In the NFL it has been proven it does not, if you can extend a play or gain valuable yards in 3rd and critical situations great, but at some point you have to beat teams with your arm and Cam is not anywhere near ready to do that.

[Arkansas Bengal]

This team has turned into a fucking soap opera. We were already considered Siberia as well as a halfway house for thugs--now our supposed franchise QB wants out (who can blame him). Our starting RB doesn't want to come back and our number one all time receiver will probably be cut.

We have an owner that thinks he is a football god, refuses to spend money on capital improvements (covered practice field, comparable scouting department, ring of honor in PBS, etc.) and continues to employ incompetent coaches.

The league's worst head coach for game management continues to protect his home boy Hayes Brothers coaches (who both suck).

Bratkowski should have been fired 2 years ago; Marvin should have been fired this year.

I can't wait to see how this affects season ticket sales--especially the luxury boxes.

My personal opinion is that nothing will change--MB is too old and too stubborn to admit he's wrong about ANYTHING. It's HIS team and if you don't like how he runs, too bad.

[Jason]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' timestamp='1295876746' post='964733']
Common sense. In the coming months we will find out that he did know all about his fathers scam, he will lose his Heisman trophy, Auburn will be forced to give back the National Championship trophy etc. He is a run first quarterback which as history has shown do not translate well at the next level. He's a Liar, He doesn't understand how to read defenses it has been every analyst's biggest criticism of him, and he is an inaccurate passer.

Cam Newton is nothing more than a cross between Vince Young and Jamarcus Russell. Espn is sucking him off like they did Young, but he has the negative image like Russell. If we draft him with the #4 overall pick due to Palmer truly wanting out, he will have to start (provided we dont bring in veteran help and we likely will) and he will fail miserably. He would be playing two of the most complex defenses twice a year (see he doesn't understand how to read defenses) Bottom line, he is a project QB at best. Running all over the place in College works, In the NFL it has been proven it does not, if you can extend a play or gain valuable yards in 3rd and critical situations great, but at some point you have to beat teams with your arm and Cam is not anywhere near ready to do that.
[/quote]

+1

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Yanks' timestamp='1295860473' post='964714']
Big fucking deal. Maintaining and coding a board like this is shit a kid in 6th grade can do.

No one else I'm sure on here has gone through such monumental struggles as having kids or job issues or family bullshit... must be a real struggle. Go is a fucking internet bully and thinks that berating people either makes him tough or not fat or successful. Fail x3.

Imagine a picture of GoDanFran with Brats dick in their mouths. Now replace their mouth with yours and Go's dick. Same fucking thing. [color="#FF0000"]This site is so pathetic it's stunning.[/color] The silly little 'like you matter' drama makes me read this site every few days though so keep it up.

For the record FUCK BRAT and his delusional little brainwashed minion ball hummers + overly entitled kin. Queers.
[/quote]


and yet you take the time to come here and not just come here but post

what does that say about you?

[PizzaMAN!!!]

All of this will blow over...and CP will be back next season. If there is any lesson I've learned from MB and the Bengals, it's all talk - no action - and more of the same.



Brat will be gone...right.
Chad will be gone...right.
Marvin will be gone...right.
Carson will be gone...right.

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size="5"][b]Carson Palmer is officially 'Bengalized'[/b][/size]

January, 23, 2011

By James Walker

PITTSBURGH -- As I'm getting settled in Heinz Field for Sunday's AFC title game between the Steelers and Jets, I thought I'd share a few early thoughts on Chris Mortensen's report on the trade request from Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer.

For starters, I'm not surprised by this. In December, the AFC North blog reported that Palmer would not accept a pay cut to remain with the Bengals in 2011. That was perhaps foreshadowing to Palmer's level of unhappiness. It appears things have gotten worse since then, especially since Palmer is now threatening retirement. I've seen player after player in Cincinnati eventually grow unhappy with the consistent losing. Palmer is one of the most patient and optimistic players I've ever covered, but it looks like he's officially been "Bengalized."

It will be interesting to see how Cincinnati responds to Palmer's trade request. Coach Marvin Lewis has always been the type of coach to put out fires and shrug things off (see Chad Ochocinco). But when your star quarterback wants out, that's the type of distraction that is unavoidable. The question will be asked over and over during offseason workouts and in minicamp and training camp if it goes that far.

Palmer's trade request could alter Cincinnati's draft plans. The Bengals have the No. 4 overall pick, which is a slot where the team could draft a quarterback. If Palmer is traded or follows through on retirement, the Bengals will be desperate for a quarterback. The top-rated quarterbacks in this year's draft are Missouri's Blaine Gabbert, Washington's Jake Locker and Auburn's Cam Newton.

Finally, how will Palmer's decision impact other free agents? Cincinnati will be rebuilding this year, and that process will take even longer if the team loses its franchise quarterback. Good, veteran players such as cornerback Johnathan Joseph and tailback Cedric Benson are free agents and have to decide if they want to come back to a team that probably won't win many games if Palmer isn't there. This uncertainty will be a major story to watch in the AFC North this offseason.[/quote]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/23728/carson-palmer-is-officially-bengalized

[USN Bengal]

Having been a colossal prick at times on here myself, the bad mouthing and trashing of GO is asinine and juvenile. While I don't agree with many of his opinions, getting personal makes you no better than a stealerfan.

The guy got death threats from this board?

Really?

There are more than a couple of people who need a check up from the neck up and a good ass whipping.

Then those that advocate throwing trash on Brats lawn, or ANY lawn are just dumbfucks. To even say shit like that (yes I know you're going to say you were just joking, but I'd bet that's how the "joking" started out when Carson got trash put on his lawn too) shows what kind of person you are.

I have always loved the Bengals and always will... but to carry shit over the threshold of common sense is a sure sign that some people need to grow the fuck up.

Assholes.

[Bengals1181]

[quote]Jan. 23, 2011 3:09 p.m. - Chad Ochocinco didn't waste time chiming in with the Carson Palmer news. He tweeted: "Carson Palmer demands a trade? Last person demanded a trade in Cincy was crucified by the media n had to win the fans back." Ochocinco was referring to himself in 2008. Bengals RapidReports

Jan. 23, 2011 3:07 p.m. - Fans booed Carson Palmer at nearly every home game this season more maliciously than in any year. Fans even booed when a message about his acheivement of 20,000 career passing yards was posted. Palmer's family having to sit through that at least played a small part in this play. Bengals RapidReports

Jan. 23, 2011 2:41 p.m. - The list of free-agent QBs available doesn't inspire confidence in possible life after Carson Palmer. Peyton Manning and Michael Vick are at the top of the list, but neither is a realistic option. After that, Seneca Wallace, Matt Hasselbeck, Alex Smith and Marc Bulger top the list. Bengals RapidReports[/quote]

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size="5"][b]Commentary: Rumored trade demand a calculated risk for Palmer[/b][/size]

By B.J. Bethel, Staff Writer

Updated 8:29 AM Monday, January 24, 2011

Carson Palmer has had enough — of the Cincinnati Bengals, and maybe the NFL.

Rumors spread Sunday afternoon that the 31-year-old quarterback wants to be traded. If his demand isn’t met, he’s considering retirement.

Is this a good move? As far as public relations go, maybe not. Owner Mike Brown has a history of sticking to his guns during player disputes. Fans never forgave Chad Ochocinco’s own demand three years ago. Unless he’s serious about retirement, he’s likely not to be going anywhere than his swimming pool or couch.

But if Palmer wanted a reason to try it, he just has to look at Jay Cutler.

The former Broncos quarterback didn’t get along well with incoming coach Josh McDaniels. Cutler, who didn’t exactly have a reputation for locker room enthusiasm, was dumped. While McDaniels is now gone, Cutler made it to the NFC Championship game this year with a Bears franchise that has been dying for a star quarterback for decades.

It’s risky banking on the Bengals to blink, but it’s worth it. Suitors will be out there. Brett Favre just retired in Minnesota — a team that is now led by former Cincinnati assistant Leslie Frazier. Handing off to Adrian Peterson or tossing balls to Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin isn’t bad either.

While Palmer appeared to be damaged goods after this past season, quarterbacks are at a premium. Palmer has a Pro Bowl pedigree, and the NFL has a history of resurrected signal callers finding their way to titles.

That has to be weighing on Palmer’s mind, as well as the thought that watching HD football on one’s couch has to be a better view than on your back on FieldTurf.[/quote]



http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-bengals/commentary-rumored-trade-demand-a-calculated-risk-for-palmer-1062458.html

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1295879526' post='964760']
Having been a colossal prick at times on here myself, the bad mouthing and trashing of GO is asinine and juvenile. While I don't agree with many of his opinions, getting personal makes you no better than a stealerfan.

The guy got death threats from this board?

Really?

There are more than a couple of people who need a check up from the neck up and a good ass whipping.

Then those that advocate throwing trash on Brats lawn, or ANY lawn are just dumbfucks. To even say shit like that (yes I know you're going to say you were just joking, but I'd bet that's how the "joking" started out when Carson got trash put on his lawn too) shows what kind of person you are.

I have always loved the Bengals and always will... but to carry shit over the threshold of common sense is a sure sign that some people need to grow the fuck up.

Assholes.
[/quote]

I would throw trash on Brat's yard in a heartbeat....but then I might get caught. Scratch that, I would hire a Mexican to throw trash on Brat's yard. I know people are going to bitch and say Mexicans are stealing our jobs, lets face it I could hire two Mexicans to throw twice as much garbage for the price it would cost me to hire one American.

[|Numbers|]

Here is a scenario...

Seahawks QB is Matt Hasselbeck (sp?) and his agent is Athletes First (Dunn). Bengals QB is Carson Palmer and his agent is Athletes First (Dunn).
Seahawks head coach is Carroll who has obvious ties to Palmer at USC. Seahawks may be getting rid of Hasselbeck and as a result driving the agent to find a replacement before the boot is applied towards Hasselbeck. This would be kinda shady but things like this probably happen all the time.

If we were to offload Palmer, we could pick up Arkansas quarterback Ryan Mallett. However, guess who his agent is ? You got it, Athletes First (Dunn).

IMHO this trade is being facilitated by Palmer's agent David Dunn. Lots of relevant California ties to be discussed.

[ONYX]

*throws chair*

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size="5"][b]Carson Palmer Latest to Try to Escape From Cincinnati[/b][/size]

[b]by Cris Collinsworth[/b]

Published on 01-24-2011 12:29 AM 0 Comments

ESPN is reporting that Carson Palmer is demanding a trade, or he may retire. I can already tell you what owner Mike Brown's comment will be......"Ha, Ha, Ha, OK Carson, retire." Remember Chad Ochocinco taking a stroll down that highway? If Mike Brown let every player under contract walk because they were unhappy with the way things were going in Cincinnati, the Bengals would need Moeller High School kids to finish the season.

This seems like an uncharacteristic step for Carson Palmer, but it might be a deadly blow to this organization. Between T.O., Chad Ochocinco, and now Carson Palmer, the talk of the off-season may be the Bengals Titanic like sinking and bailout. Players are already suspicious about how this organization is run, if those three high profile players start a combined trashing of the Bengals, the repercussions could be extremely damaging. Carson is not a guy that reacts publicly without thinking it through, he knows how this will be perceived. Apparently he doesn't care, and I guarantee you one thing, the Bengals won't either.[/quote]


http://footballpros.com/content.php/662-Carson-Palmer-Latest-to-Try-to-Escape-From-Cincinnati


[quote]Cris Collinsworth - 01-24-2011 01:28 AM

I try hard to not act surprised by anything in the NFL, but this one got me.[/quote]

[TeeBengal]

[quote name='sneaky' timestamp='1295881703' post='964781']
*throws chair*
[/quote]

Jeff Blake is that you???

[bengaled]

[quote name='BengalBacker' timestamp='1295857594' post='964711']
I'm pretty sure Go has put thousands of hours, thousands of dollars into, and had thousands of headaches from creating and maintaining this site. I'm pretty sure he kept doing it through having kids, moving to Colorado, death wishes on his family, job problems, not much financial support from all of us, and coming on here and being ridiculed on his own site. Sure he's an ass to some people. A lot of you are asses toward him. This site is full of asses. It helps keep it interesting.

Let's say that Go did have an "in" with the team. If it were you, might that perspective cloud your opinions? I can understand some of you wanting to rub shit in his face about it because of the way he and Dan have acted, and that's fine. He dishes it out, but he DOES take it as well. I just hope he doesn't start to think it's not worth it.

Ryan is a good man. We owe him. I'm not saying kiss his ass, but don't burn him at the stake. We're all Bengal fans.
[/quote]


wise words again, BB, and i agree.... enough is enough.

[Bengals1181]

[quote]4. You may have read the reports that Carson Palmer wants out of Cincinnati. We know Marvin Lewis wants Chad out, but we aren't sure how that may play out. We know the Bengals are an absolute mess. The Bengals are such a mess that the Browns think the Bengals are a mess. It's a HUGE week for the Bengals as their coaching staff is coaching the North team at the Senior Bowl, and the timing of this Palmer thing is no coincidence. Marvin is, um, a little less than cheery with the media all the time, and I bet the questions this week will make for some good TV. [/quote]

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/01/23/11/Blogging-on-the-Buckeyes-Bengals-and-Cav/landing_jacksons_five.html?blockID=396398&feedID=5459

[scharm]

I was wrong, an indoor practice facility really is important.