ROOKIE MINICAMP NOTES

[BlackBengal]

[quote name='The PatternMaster' timestamp='1337095102' post='1130755']
Good points, but also consider that many agents have relationships with these media created "draft gurus" and they will pay these guys to hype up their clients regardless if the NFL feels the same way about the prospects.
[/quote]

I think the DeCastro hype stems from the fact that he blocked for Andrew Luck. The Stanford offense was getting a ton of attention and they had a really good guard prospect in DeCastro. The media took a really good prospect and made him into "the best guard prospect since Steve Hutchinson." They were already covering Andrew Luck and Stanford like they worked for TMZ, so they naturally expanded the narrative to include DeCastro.

[bengaled]

[quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1337101989' post='1130787']
I think the DeCastro hype stems from the fact that he blocked for Andrew Luck. The Stanford offense was getting a ton of attention and they had a really good guard prospect in DeCastro. The media took a really good prospect and made him into "the best guard prospect since Steve Hutchinson." They were already covering Andrew Luck and Stanford like they worked for TMZ, so they naturally expanded the narrative to include DeCastro.
[/quote]

you should have stopped with the i think part. decastro drew praise from more than the normal media types. that statement does an injustice to all the former NFL people who now work the draft sharing their insight with us. many of these guys know exactly what they're talking about, because they used to do this for a living, and nearly all of them had decastro rated as a pick in the mid to late teens. just because we didn't draft decastro, it's silly to denigrate the guy. decastro is a helluva prospect. to say anything different is crazy. players sometimes drop because teams pick a guy they need more, or because someone has dropped they never had plans on. nearly everyone had decastro rated as a late teens pick and i still think he measured out in that area. he's strictly a guard type, one who's forte is his pulling and pass blocking. that affected his selection. if your team doesn't have needs in that area, or has bigger needs at a more valued position, it makes perfect sense to draft that more valued position. the stealers got one of the steals in this draft, good for them. we got a guy we like pretty well too, PLUS brandon thompson. both those scenarios can happen at the same time.

the the only problem i have with decastro is he's now a stealer. doesn't mean he wasn't and isn't a great prospect...doesn't mean that at all.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']
you should have stopped with the i think part. decastro drew praise from more than the normal media types. that statement does an injustice to all the former NFL people who now work the draft sharing their insight with us. many of these guys know exactly what they're talking about, because they used to do this for a living, and nearly all of them had decastro rated as a pick in the mid to late teens. just because we didn't draft decastro, it's silly to denigrate the guy. decastro is a helluva prospect. to say anything different is crazy. players sometimes drop because teams pick a guy they need more, or because someone has dropped they never had plans on. nearly everyone had decastro rated as a late teens pick and i still think he measured out in that area. he's strictly a guard type, one who's forte is his pulling and pass blocking. that affected his selection. if your team doesn't have needs in that area, or has bigger needs at a more valued position, it makes perfect sense to draft that more valued position. the stealers got one of the steals in this draft, good for them. we got a guy we like pretty well too, PLUS brandon thompson. both those scenarios can happen at the same time.

the the only problem i have with decastro is he's now a stealer. doesn't mean he wasn't and isn't a great prospect...doesn't mean that at all.
[/quote]

Calling DeCastro a "really good prospect" is hardly denigrating him.

And if you say DC should have gone in the late teens, the Steelers didn't get much of a steal, no matter how good he turns out. Five picks or something?

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='BlackBengal' timestamp='1337101989' post='1130787']
I think the DeCastro hype stems from the fact that he blocked for Andrew Luck. The Stanford offense was getting a ton of attention and they had a really good guard prospect in DeCastro. The media took a really good prospect and made him into "the best guard prospect since Steve Hutchinson." They were already covering Andrew Luck and Stanford like they worked for TMZ, so they naturally expanded the narrative to include DeCastro.
[/quote]

I'm not refering to DeCastro specifically, I'm just talking about the pre-draft process as a whole and how certain bloggers/draft gurus will attach to a guy and over hype him regardless of what actual NFL scouts seem to think about the guy.

[BlackBengal]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']
you should have stopped with the i think part. decastro drew praise from more than the normal media types. that statement does an injustice to all the former NFL people who now work the draft sharing their insight with us. many of these guys know exactly what they're talking about, because they used to do this for a living, and nearly all of them had decastro rated as a pick in the mid to late teens. [/quote]

Actually, he drew skepticism from the guys who werent "normal media types." Many of the NFL radio guys were laughing at the constant barrage of callers clamoring for their teams to take DeCastro and would warn callers that DeCastro isnt as good as people think. Greg Cossel, who watches the most film of any media guy, had Zeitler as his number prospect, and tweeted after DeCastro was drafted that he didnt see a special player in DeCastro.

So the media never over-hypes prospects and then is surprised when the NFL teams pass on them? The media did the exact same thing with Eric Steinbach. They built him up as an elite guard prospect and then praised the Bengals for getting a "top-15 player" in the early second round. Then Steinbach turned out to be a good, but certainly not great player.

In the previous two drafts (2010 & 2011) two guards (Danny Watkins and Mike Iupati) were drafted higher than DeCastro. In Iupati's case 7 picks higher than DeCastro. No one claimed that those guys were "best since Hutchinson." Yet, no team was willing to take DeCastro higher than either of those guys who most people havent even heard of. I trust the NFL teams more than the talking heads.


[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']just because we didn't draft decastro, it's silly to denigrate the guy. [/quote]

I was denigrating DeCastro long before we didnt draft him. I have said all along that he is a very good prospect, but not elite.

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']decastro is a helluva prospect. to say anything different is crazy. players sometimes drop because teams pick a guy they need more, or because someone has dropped they never had plans on. nearly everyone had decastro rated as a late teens pick and i still think he measured out in that area. he's strictly a guard type, one who's forte is his pulling and pass blocking. that affected his selection. [/quote]

I didnt say he wasnt a "helluva prospect". I said he is probably not the elite prospect that he was built up to be. Its not crazy. There have been a lot of people who have said the same thing. Now that the draft is over you are hearing more and more teams leaking that they liked Zeitler better. A Ravens' beat writer said that they had Zeitler over DeCastro and they thought he was overrated. The Ravens apparently traded down because they Zeitler came off the board. So maybe the Ravens didnt think he was a helluva prospect.

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']if your team doesn't have needs in that area, or has bigger needs at a more valued position, it makes perfect sense to draft that more valued position. [/quote]

Well there were a lot of teams with major guard needs that passed on him. The Titans, Bears, Chiefs and Bengals had major needs in that area, with picks in the range that DeCastro was predicted to be picked in and they all passed.

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1337106403' post='1130797']the stealers got one of the steals in this draft, good for them. we got a guy we like pretty well too, PLUS brandon thompson. both those scenarios can happen at the same time.
[/quote]

I disagree. I think he was drafted right about where he should have been drafted if not a little high. As a Bengals fan I was very happy that the Steelers drafted DeCastro. I think he will be a good player, but won't have a major impact.

[happyrid]

I think there was a range of opinion on Decastro from "NFL types" including guys like Charley Casserly who was a long-time NFL GM and not just a media personality. Seems like opinions ranged from early teens to early 2nd round, which isn't that huge of a spread on a guy.

I also think that part of the difference in opinions really comes down to what a team is looking for in their OGs. In my opinion, Decastro's one weakness is that he isn't a guy who gets huge push straight ahead. He's not weak or particularly bad at it, but he's just average at it. I think Zeitler was noticeably better at that aspect of things. I do think though that Decastro is as impressive of a pulling Guard out in space as I've seen. For a team like the Steelers that use a pulling guard on almost every run play, he'd have more value on their board than most other teams. The Bengals really seem to like to run to the right side and were looking for a mauler (like Bobbie was) to get some push and thus I could see how they'd have Zeitler higher (or close enough on their board that they didn't have a strong preference either way, which is what I think is more likely the case).

[BBR]

I said before the draft that I didn't like DeCastro. Didn't really care for Glenn either and assumed Zeitler wasn't going to be available for the 2nd round pick. The couple of times I watched their games, DeCastro seemed to be on the ground too much for my liking and while he moved well in space he didn't pick guys up squarely when he was pulling. I figured the Bengals would have seen him as more of a pulling center in their system and I think that's why Alexander spent so much time with him at his pro-day and had him do drills as a center too.

You have to remember that the media creates a false sense of authority on the talents of draft picks. Get a couple of the big guys liking a prospect early and then others start repeating what they heard those guys say. Since it's too easy to go by what the 'experts' claim it eventually becomes a fact since everyone is saying the same thing. It's all part of the lazy, hype driven process. Sad part is that some of the bigger 'experts' throw shit out there early for shock value to get people talking about their mock drafts and ratings (see Kiper's new 2013 top 25 list and LeVeon Bell - I really like him but top 25 is too high right now). Sometimes I wonder if they end up creating a monster that they can't stop and since they started it, they kinda have to ride it out.

Look at what happened with AJ Jenkins. I was hoping the Bengals could get him in the 2nd and people thought that was way too high and I said that I thought he'd go much higher than people realized and he did. listening to the experts would have had you expecting to see him go in the 4th or 5th rounds.

The 'experts' are often times wrong.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='BBR' timestamp='1337125671' post='1130849']
I said before the draft that I didn't like DeCastro. Didn't really care for Glenn either and assumed Zeitler wasn't going to be available for the 2nd round pick. The couple of times I watched their games, DeCastro seemed to be on the ground too much for my liking and while he moved well in space he didn't pick guys up squarely when he was pulling. I figured the Bengals would have seen him as more of a pulling center in their system and I think that's why Alexander spent so much time with him at his pro-day and had him do drills as a center too.

[/quote]

Those kind of quotes, even from the ones who were saying DeC was the best ever, worried me somewhat. Being on the ground is pretty darn bad for an OL, unless 2 DL are under you.

[BBR]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1337126170' post='1130852']
Those kind of quotes, even from the ones who were saying DeC was the best ever, worried me somewhat. Being on the ground is pretty darn bad for an OL, unless 2 DL are under you.
[/quote]

I am far from anything close to resembling an expert and I only watched a few games. I just didn't see him as great as he was being made out to be. Very good at pulling though, and I like (dislike actually) the role he'll play in Pittsburgh. I see him being used the way they used Alan Faneca for all those years on pulls. The Bengals just don't (historically) do that as much in the run game. I think he'll struggle the first couple of years blocking guys straight up one on one, but if that's the case they'll just use the center to double up on his guy. I think it will be interesting to see him in short and goal line situations.

[Bengals1181]

[color=#333333]
[url="https://twitter.com/#!/Bengals"][b]Cincinnati Bengals[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]Bengals[/b][/size][/url][/color][color=#333333]
[url="https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Bengals"][s]#[/s][b]Bengals[/b][/url] waive C Ben Bojicic.[/color]

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1337265290' post='1131126']

[color=#333333][url="https://twitter.com/#!/Bengals"][b]Cincinnati Bengals[/b] ‏[size=3][s]@[/s][b]Bengals[/b][/size][/url][/color]
[color=#333333][url="https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23Bengals"][s]#[/s][b]Bengals[/b][/url] waive C Ben Bojicic.[/color]
[/quote]

Michael Weston Weeps.

[oldschooler]

But tackle Mike Ryan is not one of them. He's been home for a week after spending a day with the Cincinnati Bengals. The 6-foot-5, 330-pound Ryan arrived at the four-day mini-camp May 10, failed his physical because of a slight knee injury sustained at Pro Day in March, and was sent home to Pennsylvania.

"It's unfortunate, but this summer I'm going to try and graduate [with a degree in English]," Ryan said. "I've got four more classes I need to get that done and then be ready if I get a call or an invite to fall camp."

Wide receiver Kashif Moore (Cincinnati), kicker Dave Teggart (Chicago), center Moe Petrus (Tampa Bay), defensive back Gary Wilburn (Tennessee) and tackle Twyon Martin (Philadelphia) have all made it through the first mini-camp and are set to begin organized team activities (OTAs) in hopes of making the 53-man roster.

Two members of the 2010 Huskies got into camps recently: long-snapper Derek Chard (Jets) and linebacker Lawrence Wilson (Saints). Defensive tackle Kendall Reyes (second round, San Diego) was the only Husky drafted this year and is all but a lock to make the Chargers.

Ryan, a two-time All Big East lineman and main cog in the Huskies' running attack, is hopeful that he'll get an opportunity.

"I was excited to be out there," Ryan said. "I went through the physical, went through everything, got back to the hotel and they called me and said, 'Hey, you didn't pass your physical,' and gave me flight information and that was it. That's tough but understandable. Teams invest a lot in their players. I'm optimistic, but right now I'm going to keep working out, stay in shape and take classes either online or some place close to home (Tamaqua, Pa.)."

Moore, who spent a day with Ryan in Cincinnati, appears to be in good shape with the Bengals. By all accounts, he had a good camp and earned the nickname "The Connecticut Comet" because of his speed.

According to one report, Moore and Armon Binns, who played at Cincinnati (and is also a free agent), burned cornerback Dre Kilpatrick. Kilpatrick was the Bengals' first-round draft pick. Moore, who signed a three-year deal with a signing bonus, is still with the team.

"The whole team is here, so you have a chance to intertwine with all the veterans," said Moore, who is 5-9, 180. "We're having meetings now, running, conditioning, lifting weights and running routes. Next week will start OTAs. I'm excited but my goal is to stay motivated, try to get better every day and take advantage of every opportunity. Sometimes the [repetitions] may be limited, but every rep I get I go as far as I can go."





http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-uconn-football-0518-20120517,0,4216103.story

[Gorilla]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1337347769' post='1131354']
But tackle Mike Ryan is not one of them. He's been home for a week after spending a day with the Cincinnati Bengals. The 6-foot-5, 330-pound Ryan arrived at the four-day mini-camp May 10, failed his physical because of a slight knee injury sustained at Pro Day in March, and was sent home to Pennsylvania.

"It's unfortunate, but this summer I'm going to try and graduate [with a degree in English]," Ryan said. "I've got four more classes I need to get that done and then be ready if I get a call or an invite to fall camp."

Wide receiver Kashif Moore (Cincinnati), kicker Dave Teggart (Chicago), center Moe Petrus (Tampa Bay), defensive back Gary Wilburn (Tennessee) and tackle Twyon Martin (Philadelphia) have all made it through the first mini-camp and are set to begin organized team activities (OTAs) in hopes of making the 53-man roster.

Two members of the 2010 Huskies got into camps recently: long-snapper Derek Chard (Jets) and linebacker Lawrence Wilson (Saints). Defensive tackle Kendall Reyes (second round, San Diego) was the only Husky drafted this year and is all but a lock to make the Chargers.

Ryan, a two-time All Big East lineman and main cog in the Huskies' running attack, is hopeful that he'll get an opportunity.

"I was excited to be out there," Ryan said. "I went through the physical, went through everything, got back to the hotel and they called me and said, 'Hey, you didn't pass your physical,' and gave me flight information and that was it. That's tough but understandable. Teams invest a lot in their players. I'm optimistic, but right now I'm going to keep working out, stay in shape and take classes either online or some place close to home (Tamaqua, Pa.)."

Moore, who spent a day with Ryan in Cincinnati, appears to be in good shape with the Bengals. By all accounts, he had a good camp and earned the nickname "The Connecticut Comet" because of his speed.

According to one report, Moore and Armon Binns, who played at Cincinnati (and is also a free agent), burned cornerback Dre Kilpatrick. Kilpatrick was the Bengals' first-round draft pick. Moore, who signed a three-year deal with a signing bonus, is still with the team.

"The whole team is here, so you have a chance to intertwine with all the veterans," said Moore, who is 5-9, 180. "We're having meetings now, running, conditioning, lifting weights and running routes. Next week will start OTAs. I'm excited but my goal is to stay motivated, try to get better every day and take advantage of every opportunity. Sometimes the [repetitions] may be limited, but every rep I get I go as far as I can go."





[url="http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-uconn-football-0518-20120517,0,4216103.story"]http://www.courant.c...0,4216103.story[/url]
[/quote]

Kilpatrick?

Never heard of him.

[Jason]

[quote name='Gorilla' timestamp='1337363451' post='1131433']
Kilpatrick?

Never heard of him.
[/quote]
Don't know Dre Kilpatrick, but his brother Sean is a shooting guard for the Bearcats hoops team.

[Gorilla]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1337366890' post='1131442']

Don't know Dre Kilpatrick, but his brother Sean is a shooting guard for the Bearcats hoops team.
[/quote]

The bearcats have a hoops team?

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='Gorilla' timestamp='1337363451' post='1131433']
Kilpatrick?

Never heard of him.
[/quote]
Sounds Irish! Is a leprichaun?

[Jason]

[quote name='Gorilla' timestamp='1337369738' post='1131452']


The bearcats have a hoops team?
[/quote]

Yeah, maybe you heard of them. They went to the sweet 16.

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1337392364' post='1131487']
Yeah, maybe you heard of them. They went to the sweet 16.
[/quote]

For boxing or.. ??

[Gorilla]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1337392364' post='1131487']


Yeah, maybe you heard of them. They went to the sweet 16.
[/quote]/

Wow. The sweet 16 eh?

I usually start paying attention around the elite 8 so maybe that's why I didn't know about them.

[sois]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1336871161' post='1130412']
Wasn't Arian Foster an UDFA? Yeah, low ceiling...

(null)
[/quote]

Not statistically significant

[cincity]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1337394105' post='1131490']
Not statistically significant
[/quote]

Why not? some one says we can't depend on an UDFA, and I say "why"? There are UDFAs in the NFL making huge contributions to their team, so it is possible for an UDFA to do well.

Why is it "not statistically significant"?

[Cricket]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1337400709' post='1131495']
Why not? some one says we can depend on an UDFA, and I say "why"? There are UDFAs in the NFL making huge contributions to their team, so it is possible for an UDFA to do well.

Why is it "not statistically significant"?
[/quote]


I think SOIS was talking about himself...

[Cricket]

[quote name='Gorilla' timestamp='1337369738' post='1131452']
The bearcats have a hoops team?
[/quote]

[IMG]http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy35/mjmoore530/Hula-Hoop-Kittens-36499.jpg[/IMG]

[sois]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1337400709' post='1131495']
Why not? some one says we can't depend on an UDFA, and I say "why"? There are UDFAs in the NFL making huge contributions to their team, so it is possible for an UDFA to do well.

Why is it "not statistically significant"?
[/quote]

One data point.

Yeah, someone has won the lottery before too, what do you think your chances are?

Not saying It can't happen, but don't bank on it.

[Jason]

[quote name='Gorilla' timestamp='1337393241' post='1131489']
/

Wow. The sweet 16 eh?

I usually start paying attention around the elite 8 so maybe that's why I didn't know about them.
[/quote]

Well, maybe you have heard of the best basketball player of all time. Oscar Robertson played for UC.