The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly - Chargers

[scharm]

 

 

I don't think he gave up on the San Diego INT.  I think he just saw the DL bearing down on him and chucked it up to AJ hoping AJ would make a play.  He probably should have just thrown it out of bounds.  

 

Don't remember the Denver one specifically (though remember your comment at the time), but I think the DL charging was the catalyst here.

 

In general, throwing it up deep to AJ isn't an awful idea. In this case, it seems he just threw it 3-4yds too far.

 

 Oh I disagree on the basis of AJ Green bashing that has taken place on this board.

 

Posters on this board have said or posted many times that AJ did this or didn't do than on an Int.

 

Well, if that's true and I'm not saying it isn't.   You can't chuck it up to him and still consider that to be a good decision.  

 

We have a turnover problem on offense.   It's probably a combination of stuff.   Can't consider chucking it up a good decision no matter who you blame because it is fact that they are performing poorly at negative plays that's putting the defense at risk.

[Oldcat]

It isn't October, its December. Time and time again our defense is being forced to win games for us.  At some point we will play a team that doesn't turn the ball over a lot and is decent on offense.  Last year's playoff game is a perfect example.  Our defense kept us in the game by bending  but not breaking but the offense simply did nothing .  137 passing yards on 30 attempts will NOT beat a decent playoff calibre team. 

 

 

 

That's what defensive teams DO.  Rely on the defense to make plays.  I watched the 80s Bears go 15-1 and 14-2 for years with far worse QB play and offensive skill players.  

 

Look, if you want to build a defensive, tough team, you are going to get these low scoring games because we want to play our kind of game rather than some back and forth pass-fest like Denver always does.  You'd think that after what Pitt and Baltimore did to us for years you'd be able to recognize it when we do it.

[Oldcat]

 

We have a turnover problem on offense.   It's probably a combination of stuff.   Can't consider chucking it up a good decision no matter who you blame because it is fact that they are performing poorly at negative plays that's putting the defense at risk.

 

Never said that.  Just that once AD screwed up, Green might have done more to limit the damage.  

[Oldcat]

 

 

oh and to think back to how many times i shook my head over carson palmer's high throws, where his receivers got blown up.

 

Imaginary QBs are better.

[Bengals1181]

 

 Oh I disagree on the basis of AJ Green bashing that has taken place on this board.

 

Posters on this board have said or posted many times that AJ did this or didn't do than on an Int.

 

Well, if that's true and I'm not saying it isn't.   You can't chuck it up to him and still consider that to be a good decision.  

 

We have a turnover problem on offense.   It's probably a combination of stuff.   Can't consider chucking it up a good decision no matter who you blame because it is fact that they are performing poorly at negative plays that's putting the defense at risk.

 

 

people are only saying that because that's what the coaches and players are saying/admitting though.

[scharm]

 

 

people are only saying that because that's what the coaches and players are saying/admitting though.

 

OK.  Then how is chucking it up a good idea or not awful idea?    Either way no matter what you buy into the offense has been reckless with the football and quite frankly we should have seen a Buddy Ryan vs. Kevin Gilbride episode before now on the sidelines with Gruden and Zimmer.

 

Lap threw out of the most impressive stats about the rate a defense doesn't allow a TD after a turnover.   It's something like 3 TDs in like 23 or 24 situations.  

 

I just don't see the benefit or point production that makes these risks or plays that keep producing TOs worth it.  If Andy can't throw or WR can't seem to get in position.  Time to do something else  and in the 2nd half of SD they did by jamming it up the middle with the run game.

 

Of course BJGE puts it on the ground.    The biggest threat to playoff advancement, IMO, is the rate we are giving the ball up or some of the mind boggling 3 and outs they are getting.

 

I hope we hit a patch of 0 TOs from the offense soon.   Need it badly for confidnece and sanity. 

[bengaled]

As for Dalton and the Bengals in relation to Superbowl.    I think it's clear we aren't going to the Superbowl down Park Avenue that is reserved for Golden Boy Qbs having MVP seasons.   We are clearly on the back alley path reserved for teams like Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson etc.

 

It is what it is and we have who we have.   It will be fun to watch it play out.

 

 

eric davis (NFL network) said we were the most complete team in the AFC this morning. all homerism aside, i think that's a pretty legitimate statement and supersedes all these "dalton isn't good enough" arguments. he can be good enough in that equation.

 

to look at it fairly, it's not outrageous to think dalton's experiencing a bit of a slump, and can improve his level of play. if we get a consistent running game going that will only open up the passing game. teams really haven't respected that much in the past. baby hawk is just rounding back into form after being out all season. i expect better play and more opportunities for our backup receivers too, especially the use of tyler eifert.....ESPECIALLY THE USE OF TYLER EIFERT.  

[scharm]

 

 

eric davis (NFL network) said we were the most complete team in the AFC this morning. all homerism aside, i think that's a pretty legitimate statement and supersedes all these "dalton isn't good enough" arguments. he can be good enough in that equation.

 

to look at it fairly, it's not outrageous to think dalton's experiencing a bit of a slump, and can improve his level of play. if we get a consistent running game going that will only open up the passing game. teams really haven't respected that much in the past. baby hawk is just rounding back into form after being out all season. i expect better play and more opportunities for our backup receivers too, especially the use of tyler eifert.....ESPECIALLY THE USE OF TYLER EIFERT.  

 

I think we are too.   Injuries have damaged some of my confidence.   I think it does trump the Dalton deal which is awesome.

 

I'm more concerned about TOs and how they are happening.    Prior to the flutter ball thrown up in SD it was a decent drive appearing.

 

Andy does have some nice throws.   The 28 yarder to Green late in the game was awesome. 

 

Do we need to go full blown Baltimore 2000?  Tampa? 

[|SF2|]

 

 

it doesn't matter when it is really.  It was a basic question.  During the hot streak, did you think Dalton could be counted on to win a game in crunch time against a good team?

 

If the answer is yes, why can't the passing game get back to that?

.

Well, you don't want your bad streak to be in December for sure.  Furthermore, coming out of a bye against a BAD defense should have been the perfect time to get back on track but it simply didn't happen.    Thankfully, our d line was in Rivers' face all game and Burfict was simply a fucking monster near the line of scrimmage.  Dre stepped up and made an awesome play but how often to plays like that happen in a game?

 

Keep in mind D coordinators don't rest during the season.  They have obviously figured something out and are using it to their advantage. Kaepernick and RGIII are learning  that all too well this year.   

 

What bothers me the most about yesterday was Andy had plenty of time all game to sit back, go thru his progressions and make plays.   His best pass (and it was a beauty) was the quick slant to Hawkins which was a read at the line of scrimmage.  Problem is, we rarely ever see this or when we do, the receiver has to slow down to catch the ball.  

 

Its also mind numbing that with how well the run game was working, our TEs didn't just kick ass yesterday.  I simply don't buy the notion that they didn't get open but if I could see some tape to prove otherwise so be it.

 

This is the year everyone said Andy needs to take the next step.  He has played in 46 games as a pro.  He needs to figure it out and soon.   This is a team built to win playoff games and make a real run to a February game.    The stars are aligned and the AFC is pretty weak this year.  We have a much easier path than in years before although the top teams are what they are.  

[|Elflocko|]

All I need to know:

 

This team came out of a bye, a period with which Marvin has a horrible history of preparing teams, went on the road to the west coast (a place where many a Cincinnati sports franchise's dreams have gone to die) and punched a team in the mouth in the end to win the game.

 

Bring on the Colts and their creepy, serial-killer impersonating QB... 

[Oldcat]

 

OK.  Then how is chucking it up a good idea or not awful idea?    Either way no matter what you buy into the offense has been reckless with the football and quite frankly we should have seen a Buddy Ryan vs. Kevin Gilbride episode before now on the sidelines with Gruden and Zimmer.

 

Lap threw out of the most impressive stats about the rate a defense doesn't allow a TD after a turnover.   It's something like 3 TDs in like 23 or 24 situations.  

 

I just don't see the benefit or point production that makes these risks or plays that keep producing TOs worth it.  If Andy can't throw or WR can't seem to get in position.  Time to do something else  and in the 2nd half of SD they did by jamming it up the middle with the run game.

 

Of course BJGE puts it on the ground.    The biggest threat to playoff advancement, IMO, is the rate we are giving the ball up or some of the mind boggling 3 and outs they are getting.

 

I hope we hit a patch of 0 TOs from the offense soon.   Need it badly for confidnece and sanity. 

 

Aside from the airball INT we didn't run any risky plays that I remember.  Many of the INTs in recent weeks have been on fairly routine routes instead of skyballs.  I suppose that drive with the INT was a test to see if their pass D would collapse, and when it did not we went back  to a pretty steady diet of runs up the gut and trusted the defense to hold a narrower lead.

 

BJGE's fumble was unfortunate, but not due to any undue risk.  And no fumble there and it is 24-7.

[Bengals1181]

 

OK.  Then how is chucking it up a good idea or not awful idea?    Either way no matter what you buy into the offense has been reckless with the football and quite frankly we should have seen a Buddy Ryan vs. Kevin Gilbride episode before now on the sidelines with Gruden and Zimmer.

 

Lap threw out of the most impressive stats about the rate a defense doesn't allow a TD after a turnover.   It's something like 3 TDs in like 23 or 24 situations.  

 

I just don't see the benefit or point production that makes these risks or plays that keep producing TOs worth it.  If Andy can't throw or WR can't seem to get in position.  Time to do something else  and in the 2nd half of SD they did by jamming it up the middle with the run game.

 

Of course BJGE puts it on the ground.    The biggest threat to playoff advancement, IMO, is the rate we are giving the ball up or some of the mind boggling 3 and outs they are getting.

 

I hope we hit a patch of 0 TOs from the offense soon.   Need it badly for confidnece and sanity. 

 

 

AJ is pretty damn good at jump balls?  Like I said, he probably should have just chucked it out of bounds if he was worried about the pressure, but tossing it up to a great jump ball WR isn't the worst idea in the world.

[WRAPradio]

No one is saying dalton isn't struggling or that he hasn't had some really bad stretches. What some are saying though is that there are ways to make it easier for him to improve and that he has shown enough in his three seasons to make us think the last couple games shouldn't be expected to continue for an extended period. Ie when he had a bad first half he bounced back and had a really solid second half. Hopefully that half will get him back on track.

My opinion hasn't really changed. I still believe dalton wasn't as good as his stats were in October and he isn't as bad as his stats were in November. Right now he is as good as the back of his baseball card says, meaning he is a mid to maybe upper 80s qb. I expected more this year, ie low 90s or so but this bad stretch has hurt him. I think we can win a Super Bowl if he plays somewhere in the 80-90 range in the playoffs. Above that would make it even easier.

 

 

I agree we can win games vs. Cleveland and SD (who I think is a solid team b/c of their offense, but their D sucks) with a QB rated in the 80s.  But when he's rated in the 20s in the first half it's going to be tough to win a playoff game.

[|SF2|]

 

That's what defensive teams DO.  Rely on the defense to make plays.  I watched the 80s Bears go 15-1 and 14-2 for years with far worse QB play and offensive skill players.  

 

Look, if you want to build a defensive, tough team, you are going to get these low scoring games because we want to play our kind of game rather than some back and forth pass-fest like Denver always does.  You'd think that after what Pitt and Baltimore did to us for years you'd be able to recognize it when we do it.

Dude, the new rule changes have made it impossible to do what a team like the Bears did back in the 80s.  When Singletary blew up receivers running across the middle the crowd cheered, when Burfict does it the other team gets 15 yards and a first down.   Receivers have far less fear going into the middle since they are protected.  

 

The NFL has made it easier to score points.  Any decent team must have offensive output to win games against a good team.  The linebackers are faster and bigger and the running game has taken a back seat to the passing game.  Hell, no RB even went in the first round this year.   Teams want offensive linemen who can protect the franchise and D ends who can get to the QB, WRs who can get open and DBs who can defend against them.    The first 6 picks in this year's draft?  3 OTs, 3 DEs.  

 

Last year the Ratbirds had to score 38 to beat Denver by 3 (#2 defense)  and 34 to beat SF by 3 (#3 defense) in the playoffs and Superbowl.  Gotta have offense to win multiple playoff games. 

[scharm]

Unfortunately throwing routine routes has proven to be risky with this bunch.   I'm not sure of the exact order in drives.

 

But you basically punch San Diego in the mouth running it power, TD!   The next series out I believe went 3 and out in which they throw on first then basically are given up for dead on a run call the SD could easily guess so they call a low risk run blitz blow it up.     Then right after that comes the flutter ball series, I think.

 

 

It appears the mind set has to become punch them in the mouth first, I guess. 

[bengaled]

 

Imaginary QBs are better.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIc8krqspIc

[WRAPradio]

 

I think that isn't it at all.  These people have been overlooking the good play for three years now and I am tired of it.  They aren't any wiser now that they are backed down to crying that we can't win the AFC championship game with Dalton when they started by saying we would be 0-16 with him before he played a single game.

 

 

That may or may not be true, i don't know.  I guess I'll just speak for myself.

 

Year 1:  totally encouraged with how well Andy played.  Pissed at the playoff performance.

Year 2:  Happy with the first half, terrified by the last quarter of the season and the playoff game

Year 3:  Terrified going into the season thinking Andy regressed.  Generally happy with the first half of the season, especially in October.  Now, I'm terrified again b/c Andy (and the offense) look worse than at any point over the past three year.

 

it seems we have the same trend on offense.  Play well early, suck in the later part of the season and the playoffs.  It's not all on Andy, but he's a big part of it.  There is nothing that has happened thus far historically that anyone should expect that to change.  In his previous two seasons, the same trend has occurred.  Play well early in the season, suck late in the season.

[Arkansas Bengal]

 

 

eric davis (NFL network) said we were the most complete team in the AFC this morning. all homerism aside, i think that's a pretty legitimate statement and supersedes all these "dalton isn't good enough" arguments. he can be good enough in that equation.

 

to look at it fairly, it's not outrageous to think dalton's experiencing a bit of a slump, and can improve his level of play. if we get a consistent running game going that will only open up the passing game. teams really haven't respected that much in the past. baby hawk is just rounding back into form after being out all season. i expect better play and more opportunities for our backup receivers too, especially the use of tyler eifert.....ESPECIALLY THE USE OF TYLER EIFERT.  

 

All we heard during Training Camp was how Tyler Eifert was catching EVERYTHING!

 

Well he now leads the team in dropped passes...maybe he isn't as good as we were led to believe.

[WRAPradio]

 

Well the ultimate experts, from our point of view are his coaches and they say he isn't that bad too.  Not flawless, but not bad. 

 

 

This is another point I can't argue.  I just don't think a coaching staff will come out and say one player needs to play better.  They'll generalize and call out the whole team.

[bengaled]

 

I'm more concerned about TOs and how they are happening.    Prior to the flutter ball thrown up in SD it was a decent drive appearing.

 

 

 

Do we need to go full blown Baltimore 2000?  Tampa? 

 

most of us share that same concern. too many of those TOs involve forcing the ball to green in less than ideal situations. teams are expecting it more, and i'm convinced AJ doesn't have the same fire in his belly that he did his 1st two years when going after those balls. maybe i'm wrong, but that's the impression i get. we're at our best when we spread the ball around, and we have to get back to that.

 

 

the baltimore/tampa comparison is an exaggerated one, so i'll leave it at that.  

[bengaled]

 

.

 

BJGE's fumble was unfortunate, but not due to any undue risk.  And no fumble there and it is 24-7.

 

 

...and realistically 31-7, if we don't take a knee at the end.

[Bengals1181]

 

 

This is another point I can't argue.  I just don't think a coaching staff will come out and say one player needs to play better.  They'll generalize and call out the whole team.

 

 

I think they would. Both Dalton and Maualuga got singled out last year.  Jay has called out Dalton multiple times this year.

[bengaled]

 

All we heard during Training Camp was how Tyler Eifert was catching EVERYTHING!

 

Well he now leads the team in dropped passes...maybe he isn't as good as we were led to believe.

 

 

i totally disagree with this statement. there's not a bit of maybe in my mind.

[WRAPradio]

 

 

I think they would. Both Dalton and Maualuga got singled out last year.  Jay has called out Dalton multiple times this year.

 

 

I though he said he needs more leadership from the QB and MLB, did really call out their play unless you read b/w the lines I guess.  Not sure about Jay, but you may be right.

[Bengals1181]

 

 

I though he said he needs more leadership from the QB and MLB, did really call out their play unless you read b/w the lines I guess.  Not sure about Jay, but you may be right.

 

 

Gruden KILLED Dalton publicly for the interception against Buffalo.