Gruden and Palmer

[sparky151]

This seems like a mistake:
Jay Gruden won’t reach out to Carson Palmer until his situation is resolved
Posted by Mike Florio on February 7, 2011, 9:23 PM EST
Last week, the Bengals abruptly fired offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski and hired Jay Gruden. To date, Gruden has not yet spoken with the man who’ll be the centerpiece of the team’s offense.

Unless he gets his wish to be traded.

According to the Associated Press, Gruden said Monday that he won’t try to contract quarterback Carson Palmer until Palmer’s status for 2011 has been resolved.

“Things were said before I got here, and I think they’ve got to take care of those things in-house first,” Gruden said. “Then if they need me, I’ll be glad to talk to him and do what I need to do to try to get him back. But I think that’s got to come from upstairs, that’s got to come from the head coach.”

Gruden assumes that, eventually, things will indeed be resolved.

“Until I hear something different, we’re going to go forward with him as our quarterback,” Gruden said. “That’s the only approach I can take right now. Whether it’s right or wrong, I do not know. But that’s the way I’m going about things.”

If it’s not Palmer, then the only options currently on the roster are his brother, Jordan, and Dan LeFevour.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/07/jay-gruden-wont-reach-out-to-carson-palmer-until-his-situation-is-resolved/

[JC]

Please reach out.

No Carson next could be very, very, ugly.

[ChicagoBengal]

If there's another meeting planned with Carson, don't expect Gruden to reach out before he knows the shot.
The fact is, he's doing what his bosses are asking of him.
It wouldn't shock me if Marvin had his pal JON Gruden do a pre- recruitment which would mainly be about selling Carson on the idea of his brother as a valuable asset, and then have Jay come in and close the deal.

This is obviously purely speculative, but what hasn't been on the boards lately?

[Bengals1181]

why exactly is this a surprise or mistake?


Carson and Jay don't know each other. Marvin, Mike and Carson need to work this out. When the times right Jay will get involved.

[sparky151]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297134791' post='969030']
why exactly is this a surprise or mistake?


Carson and Jay don't know each other. Marvin, Mike and Carson need to work this out. When the times right Jay will get involved.
[/quote]

If there is a lockout on March 4, coaches won't be allowed to have contact with players til a new CBA is done. That might be late summer. You don't think it would be a good idea for the new Offensive Coordinator who will probably change the offense to speak with his first choice QB? Sure Carson might retire but it would be better to prepare in case he's returning.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297135376' post='969031']
If there is a lockout on March 4, coaches won't be allowed to have contact with players til a new CBA is done. That might be late summer. You don't think it would be a good idea for the new Offensive Coordinator who will probably change the offense to speak with his first choice QB? Sure Carson might retire but it would be better to prepare in case he's returning.
[/quote]


what makes you think Carson is going to sit down and talk playbook until all of this is resolved?


Sure, at some point he can sit down and sell Carson on the offense, but its clear things aren't to that point yet. When the time's right, they'll sit down and chat.


This is a non-story. You act as if this is Jay blowing off Carson.

[sparky151]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297135848' post='969033']
what makes you think Carson is going to sit down and talk playbook until all of this is resolved?


Sure, at some point he can sit down and sell Carson on the offense, but its clear things aren't to that point yet. When the time's right, they'll sit down and chat.


This is a non-story. You act as if this is Jay blowing off Carson.
[/quote]

In effect he is. In a normal organization a new coordinator would call most of his players, meet those still in town. Gruden says he's not giving out his phone number to players until the coaches have finished digesting the offense. That's a bit lame. There's less than a month til he likely is cutoff from contact. He ought to be talking to his captains and vets at a minimum. Even if they're not talking specifics about the playbook and terminology, they ought to be trying to get comfortable with each other.

[BigDawgBengal]

I dont mind Gruden not talking to Carson. Why sit down and discuss the playbook and your ideas when you are not even sure he will be here next year and he could possibly be playing against you next year.

[CTBengalsFan]

The real question is will he reach out to Jordan Palmer and start going over the offense with him.

[unleashed]

I think everyone is reacting way too much to everything that's gone on in the last week with Gruden. The guy said most of his time since he signed with us has been spent packing all of his belongings and getting his family moved up to Cincy. I'm sure he wants to get with the coaches and go over film and all the ins and outs of his system before he has a sitdown with an unhappy QB. It's really not his problem right now since MB and Marvin are the ones who have obviously pissed him off and are the only ones who can get him to come around.

[Elijah15]

Jordan palmer=the next aaron rodgers,watch

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297141481' post='969036']
In effect he is. In a normal organization a new coordinator would call most of his players, meet those still in town. Gruden says he's not giving out his phone number to players until the coaches have finished digesting the offense. That's a bit lame. There's less than a month til he likely is cutoff from contact. He ought to be talking to his captains and vets at a minimum. Even if they're not talking specifics about the playbook and terminology, they ought to be trying to get comfortable with each other.
[/quote]


talk about twisting words.

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]New Bengals coordinator hasn't talked to QB Palmer[/b]
[/size]By JOE KAY, AP Sports Writer Monday, February 7, 2011 at 3:10 p.m.

CINCINNATI — New Bengals offensive coordinator [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Jay_Gruden"]Jay Gruden[/url] still hasn't talked to Carson Palmer. He's leaving that awkward coach-to-[url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Quarterback"]quarterback[/url] talk for another time. Gruden was in town Monday to start teaching his philosophy to the rest of the coaching staff. He's implementing a far different offense - totally new terminology - on a team unsure about its franchise player.

Palmer asked for a trade following a 4-12 finish that left the Bengals with only two winning records in the last 20 years. Owner Mike Brown refused, creating the possibility of friction at the most important position while the team changes offenses.

Gruden, hired four days earlier, said he won't contact Palmer until Brown and coach [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Marvin_Lewis"]Marvin Lewis[/url] get the situation resolved.

"Things were said before I got here, and I think they've got to take care of those things in-house first," Gruden said. "Then if they need me, I'll be glad to talk to him and do what I need to do to try to get him back. But I think that's got to come from upstairs, that's got to come from the head coach."

The 31-year-old quarterback made his surprising trade request after the Bengals finished another dreadful season and Lewis agreed to return as head coach even though Brown promised no significant change in how the organization operates.

Longtime offensive coordinator [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Bob_Bratkowski"]Bob Bratkowski[/url] was fired a few weeks later, the only change so far. The rest of the staff is intact.

Gruden is basing his offense on the assumption he'll have Palmer running it.

"Until I hear something different, we're going to go forward with him as our quarterback," Gruden said. "That's the only approach I can take right now. Whether it's right or wrong, I do not know. But that's the way I'm going about things."

There's a lot of uncertainty as the offense starts its transition. Top receiver [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Terrell_Owens"]Terrell Owens[/url] is a free agent unlikely to return. Receiver Chad Ochocinco has a year left on his contract but is at odds with Lewis. Running back Cedric Benson also is a free agent, turned off by the team's decision to throw more last season.

With uncertainty over the collective bargaining agreement, Gruden isn't sure how much time he'll have to teach the new system to whoever is on the roster.

The 43-year-old coach has spent most of his career in the Arena Football League and the United Football League. He won four league titles as a quarterback and two as a head coach in the Arena league. He was an assistant to older brother Jon Gruden in [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Tampa,_Florida"]Tampa[/url] Bay from 2002-08.

Last year, he was the head coach and general manager of the Florida Tuskers of the UFL. The Tuskers ceased operation on Jan. 12, and Gruden was moving to head coach of the UFL's new Virginia franchise when the Bengals showed an interest.

"It came when I didn't really expect it," Gruden said. "I never really have actively pursued an [url="http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/National_Football_League"]NFL[/url] job - not because I didn't want to get in the NFL, but because I was happy where I was."

Lewis decided the Bengals should evolve into a run-first offense in 2009, and they won the AFC North. They tried to become more diverse last season, bringing in Owens and throwing more often. They never made it mesh, losing 10 games in a row.

Gruden hasn't received any overriding direction from Lewis on how to run the offense.

"He's the head coach, so whatever vision he has is my vision," Gruden said. "If he has a vision of running the ball 30 times, then that's going to be the vision. We'll do the best we can to appease him. But there's been no vision that's been told to me right now. It's just come on in here, install your offense and let's make a change."





[url="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/07/new-bengals-coordinator-hasnt-talked-to-qb-palmer/"]http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/feb/07/new-bengals-coordinator-hasnt-talked-to-qb-palmer/[/url]

[Hooky]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1297147142' post='969039']
The real question is will he reach out to Jordan Palmer and start going over the offense with him.
[/quote]

Jordan's quitting if Carson does, remember? I can't believe MB didn't buckle under that threat.

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Gruden won't woo Palmer[/b]
[/size]8:09AM ET
[b]Carson Palmer | [color="#225db7"]Bengals[/color] [/b]


Within NFL Network analyst Brian Billick's prognosis of what the [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals"][color="#225db7"]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/url] offense [url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors?date=20110207#7957"][color="#225db7"]might look like in 2011[/color][/url] under new offensive coordinator Jay Gruden, the former [url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens"][color="#225db7"]Baltimore Ravens[/color][/url] head coach added that he sees quarterback [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4459"][color="#225db7"]Carson Palmer[/color][/url] being a part of this offense.Previously, there had been some buzz that the reasons for Palmer's trade demand [url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors?date=20110204#7918"][color="#225db7"]ran deeper than former OC Bob Bratkowski[/color][/url], so the firing of the veteran coordinator may not have swayed Palmer one way or the other. In light of this, it's not surprising to learn that [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6099414"][color="#225db7"]Gruden is going to let the two sides settle their differences[/color][/url] before he gets involved.

"Things were said before I got here, and I think they've got to take care of those things in-house first," Gruden said, per the Associated Press. "Then if they need me, I'll be glad to talk to him and do what I need to do to try to get him back. But I think that's got to come from upstairs, that's got to come from the head coach."

Palmer hasn't issued a public comment in a while -- so he hasn't clued us in on whether the change will be enough to sway him to drop his trade demand -- but internal sources have told Rumor Central that the Gruden hire, and the departure of Bratkowski, likely won't do anything to bridge the gap between Palmer and the Bengals. There is a strong sense that he does indeed want out.

As a reminder, a trade can only happen once there's a new collective bargaining agreement, but there will be some very interested suitors once that takes place.




[url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors"]http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors[/url]

[|Numbers|]

Whatever happened during the meeting that supposedly took place between David Dunn and Bengals management ? About two weeks ago they were supposed to meet within two weeks. Never seen a report but have seen snippets that are a repeat of a previous release before this statement was made.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1297175485' post='969070']
Whatever happened during the meeting that supposedly took place between David Dunn and Bengals management ? About two weeks ago they were supposed to meet within two weeks. Never seen a report but have seen snippets that are a repeat of a previous release before this statement was made.
[/quote]


I think they're supposed to meet this week, I feel like tomorrow.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297175689' post='969071']
I think they're supposed to meet this week, I feel like tomorrow.
[/quote]

Thanks.

This should be interesting because it is still before the deadline on ticket payments (Feb 28th). I believe there are a few people still sitting on the payments and are willing to let them go if there is nothing resolved.

[|kennethmw|]

First, let me say that I like Carson and have been one of his defenders on this site, and in other conversations. I would like to see him come back and see him get a chance to prove his promise that we saw coming out of USC. Howevea, If I'm Gruden, I don't give a fuck about him until he's at least leaning towards coming back, and it's Marvin and Mike's job to get that done. Sure you planning on him getting over his little hissy fit, but if he doesn't, oh well. Let his ass retire, and keep on going. If he's not on board by the 18th or so of this month, you get your playbook in Jordan and Lefevour's hands, and you set up what needs to be done if there is a lockout. So far, Carson has led us to two winning seasons and two playoff losses. He's important, but not irreplaceable. as my daddy always said,"one mad monkey don't stop no show"!

[scharm]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297141481' post='969036']
In effect he is. In a normal organization a new coordinator would call most of his players, meet those still in town. Gruden says he's not giving out his phone number to players until the coaches have finished digesting the offense. That's a bit lame. There's less than a month til he likely is cutoff from contact. He ought to be talking to his captains and vets at a minimum. Even if they're not talking specifics about the playbook and terminology, they ought to be trying to get comfortable with each other.
[/quote]

Agreed. It's an odd situation. Not sure I'd describe it as mistake but it's odd, IMO.

[BengalSIS]

There is a lot of drama with the team, Carson, etc.

No reason for Gruden to be a part. When he has a quarterback who is 100% on board with the team, he will talk with him. He's not here to beg Carson to stay. He's here to run an offense.
Whether or not Carson is the QB is Carson's decision.

Until Gruden and the coaches agree on the path ahead it is also too early to talk with players. He can't say anything for certain, and players all running around with potentially incorrect information will do more harm than good. Everyone needs to settle down, let him move, let him talk with coaches, and then see about the players. It would be good to see him talking with Carson, sure.
But if Carson isn't on board…why bother. An OC doesn't establish himself by starting out appeasing an unhappy QB. Especially when Carson's discord has ZERO to do with him. This is Marvin and Mike's problem to figure out. Not Gruden's.

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='BengalSIS' timestamp='1297178810' post='969077']
There is a lot of drama with the team, Carson, etc.

No reason for Gruden to be a part. When he has a quarterback who is 100% on board with the team, he will talk with him. He's not here to beg Carson to stay. He's here to run an offense.
Whether or not Carson is the QB is Carson's decision.

Until Gruden and the coaches agree on the path ahead it is also too early to talk with players. He can't say anything for certain, and players all running around with potentially incorrect information will do more harm than good. Everyone needs to settle down, let him move, let him talk with coaches, and then see about the players. It would be good to see him talking with Carson, sure.
But if Carson isn't on board…why bother. An OC doesn't establish himself by starting out appeasing an unhappy QB. Especially when Carson's discord has ZERO to do with him. This is Marvin and Mike's problem to figure out. Not Gruden's.
[/quote]

Excellent post SIS... and to top it all off, Gruden put it out there that he is available and will help in any way necessary.

[BBR]

[quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1297177521' post='969074']
... If he's not on board by the 18th or so of this month, you get your playbook in Jordan and Lefevour's hands, and you set up what needs to be done if there is a lockout. ...
[/quote]


Isn't Jordan a free agent? Restricted FA, but still a FA.

I doubt they'll even bother talking to him until the mess with his brother is sorted out. It might just be LeFevour that they'll be sending the playbook to.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BBR' timestamp='1297186029' post='969093']
Isn't Jordan a free agent? Restricted FA, but still a FA.

I doubt they'll even bother talking to him until the mess with his brother is sorted out. It might just be LeFevour that they'll be sending the playbook to.
[/quote]


yep I can't imagine Jordan will be getting a playbook anytime soon. Should help lefevour pass him on the depth chart, if he were to be resigned.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297133190' post='969026']

“[b]Things were said before I got here[/b], and I think [b]they’ve got to take care of those things in-house first[/b],” Gruden said. “Then if they need me, I’ll be glad to talk to him and do what I need to do to try to get him back. But [b]I think that’s got to come from upstairs[/b], that’s got to come from the head coach.”

[/quote]


Remember the possibility that there were some things Carson wanted done and therefore he was pushing for resolution of those prior to being interested in being the QB here. I translated the above highlighted statement as [b]the changes Carson wants need to be addressed prior to Gruden's intervention and discussing anything with him.[/b]