After Week 1--Impression of Replacement Refs

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' timestamp='1347969940' post='1159771']
I did... and you're right, it was some kind of a joke. Thought it was Comedy Central channel for a minute.

On Moreno's fumble, the replay appears that Decker recovered, Denver comes out of the pile with the football, yet Atlanta is awarded possession? On what grounds?

[/quote]

The Denver guy who came out with the ball was nowhere near the play when the ball was fumbled. He piled on after the play. If Decker recovered it, why did some entirely different player come out with it? On the replay it looked like an Atlanta guy was closer to recovering before the view was blocked, not that this matters. I assume the ref saw the Atlanta guy with it in the pile when he made the call.

I just think the announcers attacking the refs is getting out of hand and causing a lot of this 'losing control'. At one point there was a big hue and cry about a 12 man call. Replays showed the refs were right, but that didn't erase the minutes of beefing.

I just think its a bit odd that after covering for the old ref's blunders for decades, it is suddenly open season on these new ones.

[Cat]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1347990027' post='1159853']
I just think its a bit odd that after covering for the old ref's blunders for decades, it is suddenly open season on these new ones.
[/quote]

Right, that was exactly my point.

I don't think I have EVER heard an announcer rip officiating like I have this season. You would never have heard that in the past. Pereira was correct indeed - but I would like to see them do this when the regular refs are back in the fold.

[B.A.B.]

Last night was horrible. They had no control of that game. Players were going full retard

[T-Dub]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1347990027' post='1159853']
If Decker recovered it, why did some entirely different player come out with it? [/quote]

This question strikes me as so naive that I'm not sure if you're serious, but in case you really have somehow missed the countless stories of what goes on at the bottom of the pile during an NFL game... The answer is probably that another player grabbed Decker by the nuts and started twisting until he let go of the ball. Do you think they're all down there trading recipes or what?

[quote]I just think the announcers attacking the refs is getting out of hand and causing a lot of this 'losing control'. At one point there was a big hue and cry about a 12 man call. Replays showed the refs were right, but that didn't erase the minutes of beefing.[/quote]

Right, the [i]announcers[/i] are getting out of hand. Not the officiating, or the players, or the game itself... The announcers. Got it.

[quote]I just think its a bit odd that after covering for the old ref's blunders for decades, it is suddenly open season on these new ones.[/quote]

Have you considered the possibility that the replacement refs really are that much worse?

[B.A.B.]

The announcers have been laying into them pretty heavy honestly. I was surprised last night

[Oldcat]

[quote name='T-Dub' timestamp='1348004795' post='1159920']
This question strikes me as so naive that I'm not sure if you're serious, but in case you really have somehow missed the countless stories of what goes on at the bottom of the pile during an NFL game... The answer is probably that another player grabbed Decker by the nuts and started twisting until he let go of the ball. Do you think they're all down there trading recipes or what?



Right, the [i]announcers[/i] are getting out of hand. Not the officiating, or the players, or the game itself... The announcers. Got it.



Have you considered the possibility that the replacement refs really are that much worse?
[/quote]

Sure, but unless you are saying that the other Denver player was the one twisting Decker's nuts, the "Decker seemed to be closest at the start" and "Player X had the ball at the end" don't add any more information to validate that Denver had gained or had continuous possession. If the last Denver player pulled it from an Atlanta player by twisting his nuts, the Refs could have seen him in possession and called it.


There are some things the replacement Refs *are* worse at. Marching off bad distances, etc. All refs, the new and the old, are crappy at the maddeningly vague definitions of what makes a continuous possession of a catch, what kind of hit is or isn't allowed, and so on. These judgement call penalties have always led to issues in the past with the regular refs. Remember "in the grasp"? Remember the personal foul for "cuddling to the ground"?

But then it wasn't the thing to bitch about it non-stop on National TV.

I thought it was amusing that the fact that the replacements marched off the wrong distance for defensive holding on Denver's touchdown drive before the half went unnoticed by the booth until someone saw it on Twitter and they brought it up later.

[oldschooler]

[b] [size=6]Doc: If you want real NFL officials, stop watching[/size][/b]


Steve Young said the NFL doesn’t care. He said it flatly and boldly and without hesitation on ESPN, a TV network in big business with the NFL: As long as you keep watching, the NFL will keep running out its quasi-competent referees.

“There's nothing that they can do to hurt the demand for the game,’’ Young said late Monday night, after the officiating debacle that defined Atlanta versus Denver. “So the bottom line is, they don't care.’’

It’s not about integrity or safety or quality of the product. It’s about demand.

This is a leap of cynicism almost no athlete, current or former, would dare make. It’s so cynical, it belongs on a sports page, traditional or virtual. Steve Young, Hall of Famer, Super Bowl winner, smart guy, calls out the almighty League.

“Because in the end,’’ Young said, “you're still gonna watch the game. We're gonna all complain and moan, and gripe and say there's all these problems. All the coaches will say it, the players will say it. Doesn't matter.’’

If Young is right. The NFL kingpins are more arrogant than previously believed. I didn’t think that was possible.

What he’s suggesting is that the NFL is bulletproof, it knows it’s bulletproof and until proven otherwise, it will act bulletproof. If you want real officials – if you’d prefer more authentic outcomes to every play, if you’re concerned that a playoff berth could be lost on a bad call or, worse, a player could be injured because of one – then stop watching.

Vote with your eyeballs. Or lack thereof.

Fat chance.

You are concerned. You don’t like it when Leon Hall is called for a bogus personal foul, for a legitimate hit on a Browns wideout. You might have chuckled when the referee announced, after Brandon Tate’s TD catch, “The following play is under review.’’ You wonder how farcical things must get before something is done.

You’re concerned. But not much. You will watch. The NFL wasn’t born arrogant. We made it that way.

Endless, rancorous lockout last year. We watched after it ended, as if it never began. Mounting evidence of the effects of football on the brain. We watch, like voyeurs. Full-price tickets for fake games in August. We pay. Blackouts. We complain. When the blackout is lifted, we watch.

Everything worth disliking about the NFL was on display Monday night: Interminable play stoppages, endless replays, out-of-control players and coaches, the arrogance of the league in allowing it to happen.

You don’t put kazoos in the philharmonic. You don’t dress up the high school gym and call it Carnegie Hall. Is there a real point the league is hoping to make by locking out its officials? Beyond, you know, that it is the NFL and the rest of us are not?

I haven’t studied the issues. I don’t study the issues when the players are labor-fighting the owners. Why would I bother when the refs are doing it?

The league wants full-time officials. Currently, it employs 119 part-timers, who earn an average of $149,000 a year. That’s less than most star players earn in a game. The league wants to hire 20 more full-timers. It doesn’t want to increase the current salary pool. It doesn’t want to pay its current refs what they would lose by quitting their other jobs. The league wants to freeze pension benefits, then eliminate them entirely. The league’s revenues approach $10 billion a year, and it’s nickel-and-diming its officials. Why?

Because it can.

Monday night was beyond awful. It took an hour to play the first quarter. The inmates are learning to run the asylum. The players have pounced. Monday was like Planet of the Apes, on center stage at the NFL’s crown-jewel, regular season event. It’s not cheating if you don’t get caught.

The replacement refs have an impossible job. Of the three major sports, the NFL is the hardest to officiate. Everything happens so fast. Huge bodies, flying around. Snap decisions have to be made, and they have to stand up to the sort of scrutiny not seen in the NBA or MLB. Tough, tough job.

Now we’re seeing how tough. A couple months of off-season clinics isn’t going to prepare a Division III college ref to work in the NFL.

The league needs to fix this, and fix it quick. It won’t, though, unless it senses Joe Barcalounger is tuning out.


(Click the link for the entire article)


http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120918/COL03/309180123/Doc-you-want-real-NFL-officials-stop-watching?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|

[T-Dub]

[img]http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/lol-bah-stupid-refs.jpg[/img]

[bengalbutch]

[quote]
[b] The Mailbag–Referee Armageddon[/b]

[b] The Sports Guy fears an official-induced riot as he goes through his inbox and makes his Week 3 picks[/b]

By [url="http://www.grantland.com/contributor/_/name/bill-simmons"]Bill Simmons[/url] on September 21, 2012 [list]
[*][url="http://www.grantland.com/print?id=8407097"]PRINT[/url]
[/list]
My first experience with "replacement" anything was with my favorite TV shows growing up, usually when they were going well and one of their actors stupidly pushed for more money. [i]Three's Company[/i] replaced Suzanne Somers with Jenilee Harrison, which was like replacing Magic Johnson with Jerry Sichting. That didn't work [i]and[/i] wasted a year of John Ritter's prime (which is unforgivable, frankly). [i]Fantasy Island[/i] dumped Tattoo for the guy who eventually became Mr. Belvedere. That didn't work, although the thought of tiny little Tattoo saying things like, "I'm the key to this show, I need more money!" was high comedy. The nadir happened when [i]Dukes of Hazzard[/i] replaced Bo and Luke Duke with their moronic look-alike cousins, Coy and Vance. That didn't work to startling degrees, to the point that "Coy and Vance Duke" became something of a go-to joke over the next 15 years.
None of those shows ever recovered, unleashing a four-decade link for me between the words "replacements" and "didn't work." Still, I can't remember that strategy bombing worse than it did during Week 2 of the 2012 NFL season. The overmatched officials achieved the unthinkable: They actually [i]ruined[/i] a 36-hour stretch of football. It was practically an act of American sabotage. Destroy an NFL weekend and you're messing with America, right?
Needless to say, my e-mail box was flooded with pissed-off missives from readers who just wanted to vent. As always, these are actual e-mails from actual readers (except for the ones that were clearly made up).
[b]Q: After watching a phantom pass interference call in the Steelers-Jets game, I wondered how susceptible is the NFL to a Tim Donaghy type scandal right now? At the time of the fishy play, the Jets were down by ten in the 2nd half with a spread around 5 and a half. We already know the NFL's background checks for replacements were next to nothing. (See: the New Orleans Saints' fan wearing Saints stuff on his Facebook page that went unnoticed until the 11th hour). If I am one of the replacement refs and my normal annual salary is around $25,000, I might be taking calls from "Tony the Shark" in New York.
—Ryan Galvin, St. Paul[/b]
SG: Plus, the fake refs were so dreadful in Week 2, how could we tell if they crossed the line and decided to start throwing games? It would be like Honey Boo Boo's mom deciding to act dumber than usual. [i]You did? I had no idea![/i] What Donaghy achieved was much tougher: He artfully manipulated the scores of dozens of games (usually skewing them higher, to cover "over" bets) without raising any real suspicion. Replacement officials would only need to make a couple of crucial calls that couldn't be reviewed: One bad pass interference, two dubious holding penalties, and suddenly, they're home free. Or, they could swing the other way and do nothing as all hell is breaking loose … you know, like every official as the Giants were committing holds left and right during the Helmet Catch. (Sorry, I had to.) Either way, we'd never be able to tell because the bar has been lowered so dramatically already. For instance …
[b]Q: You know that moment everyone was waiting for? When the replacement officials blew a call that literally changed the outcome of a game, which inevitably led to the NFL coming to its senses and paying the extra money to return the league to respectability? That already happened! It was the [url="http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-09-16/sports/bs-sp-ravens-eagles-notes-0917-20120916_1_jacoby-jones-ravens-cornerback-cary-williams-ravens-wide-receiver"]offensive pass interference call against Jacoby Jones in the Ravens-Eagles game[/url]. Flacco threw a perfect ball to extend the Ravens' lead to ten with about 4:00 to play — essentially ending the game. Asomugha clearly never turned to play the ball, hence defensive PI, but it didn't matter as Jones was still able to reel it in. And then somehow they called it on the WR?!?!?
—Joe, Baltimore[/b]
SG: Exactly. The perfect example of a totally fishy call that everyone chalked up to sheer incompetence. Because the Eagles won without covering the 2½ point spread, nobody wondered if something more sinister was going on. But if the NFL keeps rolling these fake refs out there, one of these fishy calls is eventually going to swing a game AND a point spread … and that's when the whispers will start. You know how easy it would be to pay a fake ref $50,000 to throw three calls on one game, then spread $2 million of bets around at 15 Vegas casinos for that same game? The answer: Easy. Especially if that ref was plucked from his career as the head manager of a Costco in Anaheim. However it plays out, it's going to make for an incredible Lifetime movie starring Tom Cavanagh someday.[sup][url="http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8407097/the-mailbag#footnote1"]1[/url][/sup]
[b]Q: On [url="http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/37239/b-s-report-cousin-sal-16"]Monday's BS Report[/url], you and Sal talked about the shoddy replacement refs and home teams doing better against the spread this year, but you did not connect the dots. Of course the home teams are doing better! Inexperienced refs are going to be more likely to favor home teams — and hence be "popular" with the crowd — than experienced pros. My prediction is this home team resurgence lasts exactly as long as the replacement refs do.
—Kristan, Brisbane, AU[/b]
SG: Now we're talking! If we have to endure these replacement refs, we might as well profit from them, right? Before the Giants covered in Carolina last night, home teams were 19-11-2 against the spread, and home underdogs are 8-3 … so it's easy to think, [i]Yeah, the refs favor the home teams![/i] Unfortunately, the actual numbers don't back it up: 55.1 percent of the calls in Weeks 1 and 2 favored home teams, as opposed to 54.8 percent last season. That's a negligible difference. And yet, the three worst-officiated games in Week 2 [i]clearly[/i] favored the home teams: St. Louis, Atlanta and Baltimore. So who knows? I'm monitoring this one.[sup][url="http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8407097/the-mailbag#footnote2"]2[/url][/sup]
[b]Q: Goodell should be making Godfather offers to the real refs at this point. The Redskins-Rams game looked less like a football game and more like Sidney Dean and Billy Hoyle playing Dwight the Flight and Willie Lewis after trash talking them. The biggest issue is the officials' inability to keep control of the game. Guys are jawing at each other, hitting after the whistle, and amping up the animosity on both sides. For Skins/Rams, you could see the tension rising almost play by play, until it boiled over into Josh Morgan morphing into a 5-year-old, and possibly changed the outcome of the game. To challenge one of your long-standing gripes about NFL rules (double unsportsmanlike penalties), this was one game that sorely needed them. Players kept retaliating because they weren't being protected by the refs, but also because there was little to no retribution for retaliation (until Morgan).
—Mark M., Fairfax, VA[/b]
SG: I'd rather adopt a yellow-card/red-card system like the one soccer uses, but you're right — double unsportsmanlikes are better than the current strategy of "Just whistle the guy who does something irrational after a play and never assume he was provoked." Anytime things have clearly swung in Cortland Finnegan's favor and he's bragging about it, it's time to reevaluate things … right?
[b]Q: With all of the replacement ref controversies (e.g. blatantly missed calls, Saints Homer Ref and Fantasy Football Ref, to name a few) destroying the integrity of the game, what team's fan base do you think is the odds on favorite for going crazy and starting a riot (a la Lakers fans after winning a championship) when a missed/questionable call costs their team the game? Not a gambling man, but I'd put my money on Raiders or Eagles fans. Thoughts?
—Miguel, Burbank, CA[/b]
SG: Thanks for the unprovoked potshot at Lakers fans and thanks for a really good question. I mulled it over for about 15 minutes and changed my answer multiple times before realizing that it was nearly impossible to pick between Eagles fans and Raiders fans — it's like picking sides in the Lindsay Lohan–Amanda Bynes Career Destruction contest. They're both the odds-on favorites, with Baltimore fans trailing slightly behind. (FYI: Those were the three fan bases mentioned in a reader's "Who would win a [i]Hunger Games[/i]–type battle between Raiders fans, Eagles fans and Ravens fans?" [url="http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7836691/welcome-back-mailbag"]mailbag question last April[/url] and nobody challenged those three picks.) So I'd have the final odds looking like this: Raiders (-130), Eagles (even), Ravens (+150), The Field (+250).
Here's the catch: I see Eagles fans taking it personally that they weren't favored, increasing their odds of a referee riot because they'd be in "Nobody Believes in Us!" mode. So I wouldn't favor the Eagles, but for that same reason, I'd wager on the Eagles. Either way, you know Roger Goodell has lost control of both his marbles and the 2012 NFL season when fans are seriously debating things like "Which fan base is going to riot over the referees first?" and "How easy would it be to bribe a replacement ref and swing a game?" Stay classy, Roger.
[b]Q: Can you create a "Bad Officiating Crew League" next year? I call dibs on the Falcons-Broncos crew … wait, I want the guys who did the Rams-Skins game. No wait, I want the Ravens-Eagles crew. Actually, just flip a coin for me.
—Brian Lang, Philadelphia[/b]
SG: We briefly tried to figure out the BOCL before realizing it would be too hard to keep track. To do the league right, you'd need categories like "Number of times the home team's fans chanted that you sucked," "Number of flags you meekly picked up while pretending that it never happened," "Number of times the announcers knew the rules but you didn't," "Number of near-melees that threatened to become the biggest brawl in NFL history" and "Longest and most interminable delay between the thrown flag and the resolution of that flag." Either way, I'd pick the Rams-Redskins crew first in any BOCL draft — they looked the other way as the Rams were doing everything short of hitting Robert Griffin III with two-by-fours.
[b]Q: I was thinking of what Steve Young said last Monday Night about the current refereeing debacle, basically that the NFL doesn't care about the fans' disgust of the situation as it doesn't affect their bottom line. The extent of everyone's outrage seems to be expressed through intermittent booing at the games and bitching on the Internet from home. Could you imagine if this situation happened in a major European soccer league? If the EPL or La Liga brought in amateur referees who regularly gave phantom cards and muffed penalty kick call[s], there'd be rioting. I'm not saying NFL supporters should take it that far, but there has to be more of a backlash. It is times like these that I wish American sports fans were more organized.
—James Lynn, Austin[/b]
SG: If we couldn't stop "The Wave" from happening these past 20 years, I'm pretty sure we can't pull off an "Occupy NFL" movement. Really, these replacement refs mesh perfectly with life in 2012 — a time when we love going on the Internet, getting self-righteous and complaining about shit with no real payoff. You know who the biggest failures have been? The players. If they're as disenchanted about the officiating as they claim, then why not threaten to boycott games until the real officials come back? They could say it's a safety issue — that they don't feel safe playing a violent sport when it's being overseen by incompetent officials. If they threatened to boycott the first quarter of Sunday's early games in protest, we'd see the real officials return in about 1.39 seconds.
[b]Q: How bad are the replacement refs, you ask? I'm watching [i]Blue Crush 2[/i] instead of the Broncos-Falcons game after waiting 10 minutes while they dealt with the fallout from Knowshon Moreno's fumble. [i]Blue Crush 2[/i]. This movie is like a porno, except that they completely forgot to add the sex. What!? Grant is an elephant poacher? Please just pay them already.
—Chris, South Boston[/b]
SG: Absolutely. I've watched just as much football these first two weeks as I did every other season. At no point did I ever even consider saying, "The officiating is too shoddy, I can't watch anymore." But Young was 100 percent right on Monday night — as long as ratings aren't affected and players aren't getting needlessly hurt, is there really that much of a downside here for the NFL? If anything, all the kvetching about officials has …
A. Made everyone appreciate the real referees, a group of people that weren't exactly held in high esteem these past few years.
B. Pulled everyone's attention away from things like "How long did the NFL know about concussions before they did anything?" or "Why is Goodell trying to railroad the Saints?" or "Are we really supposed to believe that NFL players aren't using PEDs when their pectoral muscles are just randomly ripping off their bodies?" or even "So why did Junior Seau kill himself, anyway?"
It's the old David Stern ploy — create an annoying diversion right before the season and get everyone riled up. Only in this case, Goodell REALLY needed the diversion. It's hard to remember a sports commissioner needing a diversion more than Goodell heading into the 2012 season, actually. And unless one of his signature players foils this little ruse by getting seriously injured — something that easily could have happened to Griffin during one of the umpteen times St. Louis cheap-shotted him — he probably pulled it off. We're all still bitching about the refs. If you can come up with a better explanation for why the NFL would compromise the quality of its league just to save a little more than $1.5 million per team, I would love to hear it.
[/quote]

[SocalBengalEd]

I'm tired of all the complaining about thr refs, fucking Collingsworth won't shut the fuck up about it tonight. Even the regular refs fuck up.

[unleashed]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1348458906' post='1162465']
I'm tired of all the complaining about thr refs, fucking Collingsworth won't shut the fuck up about it tonight. Even the regular refs fuck up.
[/quote]

Regular refs are bad but they are at almost 25 penalties tonight. It's been pretty rough

[scharm]

Replacements are bad. I think what is also evident is the Nfl rule book is out of control.

[BengalRep85-9]

I have 2 major complaints about the replacements.

1. They seem like they can be intimidated. I may just be noticing it more since they aren't the regular refs but it seems like I'm seeing alot of late flags. Almost as if the refs are waiting to see how the players and coaches react before making their decision.

2. They don't know the rules like they should. TWICE in the last minute of the game today they missed 10 second run offs. First, when the washington WR was injured. Second, when washington was called for a false start inside of 2 minutes. The false start call should have ended the game on the spot. That's 20 extra seconds washington had for the final drive and easily could have heavily influenced the outcome of the game.

They even announced the 10 second run off for the injury but didn't see it through to implementation. It happened at 1:07, the clock should have been set to 0:57. It wasn't. They simply started the clock and washington snapped the ball with 1:05 left.


The first reason I assume is from the game being too big for them. The second is just embarrassing.

[|Dr Tarzan|]

I was working all day yesterday, but he action I did see, I'm not seeing what I expected. I expected the refs to show improvement week by week as they got experience. Seams like they took a giant stride backwards yesterday. Some things I do still think they do better than the regulars, but my God, the defensive backfield refs are, like Cris said, "all over the place". Which I believe is code for crazy inconsistent. The replacements in the first two weeks were doing something I was very pleased about--very few "phantom penalties", but there were a boat load in just the action I was able to see. I hate those more than anything, it interferes with the flow of the game and can make a great swing in momentum and possession.

And just getting he rules wrong, that is inexcusable. Casual fans seem to know the rule book better.

I've been a great defender of the replacements, up to now I think most of the criticism just came from an exhorbitant amount of scrutiny, but it has been wholly justified this week. If they perform next week like this week, I'll be a convert to the "Bring Back the Real Guys" bandwagon.

[oldschooler]

[url="https://twitter.com/BrandonSpikes55"][b]brandon spikes[/b] ‏[s]@[/s][b]BrandonSpikes55[/b] [/url]
Can someone please tell these fucking zebras foot locker called and they’re needed Back at work !!!! [url="https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23BreakingPoint&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]BreakingPoint[/b][/url]

[Bengals1181]

[quote][size=4][color=#000000][font=verdana, sans-serif, arial]Even when they are right, the officials look wrong. With seven seconds left in the Redskins-Bengals game, Redskins tight end Fred Davis had a false start. Instead of a 10-second runoff, referee Matt Nicks correctly pointed out it was a dead-ball foul, so the game continued. Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said one or two officials near the Redskins' sideline said the game was over. Because of the confusion, the Redskins got a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. The NFL provides extra security to get officials off the field and the last-second confusion merited the extra attention.[/font][/color][/size][/quote]

[url="http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8404333&wjb"]http://m.espn.go.com...yId=8404333[/url]

[TheBeaverHunter]

The game shouldn't even have had the confusion at the end. When the ref called for the 10 second runoff with 1:07 left, they never did take it off the clock and left it at 1:07. The clock stoppage has been awful as well.

[Phatcat]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1348490714' post='1162529']
The game shouldn't even have had the confusion at the end. When the ref called for the 10 second runoff with 1:07 left, they never did take it off the clock and left it at 1:07. The clock stoppage has been awful as well.
[/quote]

And at the 1:07 time stop it was because of the redskin player injury that an additional 10 seconds should have been run off the clock. Which was before the false start penalty. I think that is how it went down. But regardless the Bengals won.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Phatcat' timestamp='1348506107' post='1162599']
And at the 1:07 time stop it was because of the redskin player injury that an additional 10 seconds should have been run off the clock. Which was before the false start penalty. I think that is how it went down. But regardless the Bengals won.
[/quote]

correct. they asked for the 10 second runoff, but started the next play before the clock operator made the adjustment.

Their explanation for the non-runoff on the false start was that the clock was already stopped, so there should be no runoff.

[|Dr Tarzan|]

[quote name='Phatcat' timestamp='1348506107' post='1162599']
And at the 1:07 time stop it was because of the redskin player injury that an additional 10 seconds should have been run off the clock. Which was before the false start penalty. I think that is how it went down. But regardless the Bengals won.
[/quote]

What was this granted a 4th time out b/c of injury? Seems I've heard that before, but don't recall ever seeing it implemented. As for the false start penalty....this one I know.... RG3 spiked the ball to stop the clock the prior play. Therefore there is NO RUNOFF is the clock IS NOT MOVING for false starts. It was so chaotic that last series, that I had forgotten or not noticed the spike....Refs got that one right. But I sure could use some enlightenment on the "4th time out for injury" deal.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Oldcat' timestamp='1347990027' post='1159853']
The Denver guy who came out with the ball was nowhere near the play when the ball was fumbled. He piled on after the play. If Decker recovered it, why did some entirely different player come out with it? On the replay it looked like an Atlanta guy was closer to recovering before the view was blocked, not that this matters. I assume the ref saw the Atlanta guy with it in the pile when he made the call.

I just think the announcers attacking the refs is getting out of hand and causing a lot of this 'losing control'. At one point there was a big hue and cry about a 12 man call. Replays showed the refs were right, but that didn't erase the minutes of beefing.

I just think its a bit odd that after covering for the old ref's blunders for decades, it is suddenly open season on these new ones.
[/quote]

I'm not going to dispute the fact of which Denver player had possession... my only point, which I attempted to make initially, is that you don't EVER see any possession by Atlanta... ever. The cardinal rule of fumbles is "it isn't who recovered it... it's who has it when they unpile"... but what I see is 2 different players possessing the football at various times, and neither is a Falcon.

Aside from that, I agree with you that the announcers piling on makes it worse. Yes, in years past you had missed calls, and those types of things are going to happen. But, come on... The Tenn / Lions game yesterday the Titans were the benefactors of a 27 yard personal foul penalty... I watched the game. The original line of scrimmage was Titans' 44 yard line. They marked it off from the Lions 44 yard line, essentially making the "new" original line of scrimmage 12 yards further up field... Titans ran their next play from the Lions 29 yard line when it should have been from the Lions 41 yard line.

That stuff isn't subjective. That is hard and fast. Harbaugh manages 2 extra challenges after he's used his last time out??? How does that work out? I'm not trying to pile on these guys as they're doing the best they can - I'm more piling on the NFL because you have guys that are more experienced and able to do the job better...

[Phatcat]

[quote name='Dr Tarzan' timestamp='1348506468' post='1162601']
What was this granted a 4th time out b/c of injury? Seems I've heard that before, but don't recall ever seeing it implemented. As for the false start penalty....this one I know.... RG3 spiked the ball to stop the clock the prior play. Therefore there is NO RUNOFF is the clock IS NOT MOVING for false starts. It was so chaotic that last series, that I had forgotten or not noticed the spike....Refs got that one right. But I sure could use some enlightenment on the "4th time out for injury" deal.
[/quote]

Good point. I forgot about that 4th time out b/c of injury. But I've never heard of that before. But with all the chaos the announcers totally were not on top of it. And haven't really seen anything written specific to the 1:07 clock, injury, ref asking for a 10 second runoff, ball snapped before runoff. Crazy!!!

[|Lucid|]

Here is the "4th timeout" rule:

[quote]
[b]Injury TImeouts[/b]

[font=inherit][font=inherit][font=Georgia][size=4]An NFL team that has used all three timeouts receive a fourth timeout to remove an injured player from the field. [b]In the final two minutes of a half, this extra timeout results in a 10-second runoff on the game clock if the injured player's team is tied or losing.[/b] If 10 or fewer seconds remain in the half when the injury occurs, the game or half ends. If a team gets a fifth timeout due to another injury, the same 10-second runoff rule is in effect, and the officials also assess the team a 5-yard penalty. In college football, if a team is out of timeouts and a player suffers an injury, the player must leave the field for at least one down.[/size][/font][/font][/font]
[/quote]


[font=inherit][font=inherit][font=Georgia][size=4]Which is why I was screaming at my T.V. "The game should be fucking over!!" when the clock was stopped at 0:07 and Washington was going for the hail mary.[/size][/font][/font][/font]

[scharm]

[quote name='SocalBengalEd' timestamp='1348458906' post='1162465']
I'm tired of all the complaining about thr refs, fucking Collingsworth won't shut the fuck up about it tonight. Even the regular refs fuck up.
[/quote]

I don't think the replacement refs are performing well at all. However, annoucers are proving they don't know shit. All they do is add to the confusion. It's like those two dudes from the muppet show up in the balcony.

I particularly loved Collinsworth bitching about the ref calling it "illegal contact" on a WR when it was clear the WR was held. It kept going on about it should be "holding" or whatever. At that point, I posted my comment above.

Replacement refs suck but so does the NFL rule book. They got enough dumb shit in there that it disrupts the flow of the game and changes the nature of the game. I don't think the NFL is in any immediate danger as far as popularity. However, we got an NBA mindset going on in the NFL. Which is fine if the NFL remains the main world of football.

The problem could come in down the road like it did for the NBA that if other countries adopt your sport and start playing it better than you. It is clearly evident that NBA American basketball's major advantage is atheletism vs. skill. They can't bust a zone to save their life and the art of shooting and working for your shot is all but dead at the NBA level.

Clearly these replacement refs have some familarity with the sport and the profession of officiating. Instead of piling on the replacements maybe the question should be asked why the hell is the learning curve so deep?

I've said this well before the ref lock out. The NFL has too many rules and sub set of rules in attempt to make things perfect.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='Lucid' timestamp='1348509512' post='1162625']
Here is the "4th timeout" rule:




[font=inherit][font=inherit][font=Georgia][size=4]Which is why I was screaming at my T.V. "The game should be fucking over!!" when the clock was stopped at 0:07 and Washington was going for the hail mary.[/size][/font][/font][/font]
[/quote]


Exactly, if this had happened, then the final cluster would have never happened with the false start because time would have expired. So Washington got an extra play they shouldn't have....