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oldschooler

WEEK 1: BENGALS @ SEAHAWKS

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It's hard for me to believe that every other pro sport has been through their own gambling/fixing scandal(s) at some point but the NFL hasn't because it never happens.   At this point, as someone else pointed out, how could you tell?  The rules get less clear every season.

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4 hours ago, T-Dub said:

It's hard for me to believe that every other pro sport has been through their own gambling/fixing scandal(s) at some point but the NFL hasn't because it never happens.   At this point, as someone else pointed out, how could you tell?  The rules get less clear every season.

The NFL was started by organization crime bosses, the information is readily available for anyone to find. 

 

If you think billionaires are going to leave the result of games up, in which billions of dollars are wagered every week, to random chance and not do everything in their power to influence the outcomes then you are naive at best. 

 

Every week there are way too blatant of missed calls that occur that have direct influence on the outcome of the game to just be coincidental. 

 

If you think the NFL isn't fixed then I bet you think that WWE is real as well, it's all sports entertainment. 

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12 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

What is the purpose of the question? But I'll play. 

 

Simple illustration of how everyone can be impressed with a new coach's presser language after a loss--the same way they could 27 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

 

The purpose of the question is I was wondering why you thought a quote from Dave Shulla from

27 years ago was relevant to this thread.

 

And if you were impressed by that quote in the same way people are impressed by Taylor

and the effort this team just put forth, then that is sad.

 

It's like you're disappointed that people have hope.

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1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

 

The purpose of the question is I was wondering why you thought a quote from Dave Shulla from

27 years ago was relevant to this thread.

 

And if you were impressed by that quote in the same way people are impressed by Taylor

and the effort this team just put forth, then that is sad.

 

It's like you're disappointed that people have hope.

He just wants everyone to be as miserable as he is.  One of the reasons I blocked him.  It's too bad the system doesn't block his quotes as well. 

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

The NFL was started by organization crime bosses, the information is readily available for anyone to find. 

 

If you think billionaires are going to leave the result of games up, in which billions of dollars are wagered every week, to random chance and not do everything in their power to influence the outcomes then you are naive at best. 

 

Every week there are way too blatant of missed calls that occur that have direct influence on the outcome of the game to just be coincidental. 

 

If you think the NFL isn't fixed then I bet you think that WWE is real as well, it's all sports entertainment. 

If you think the rich and powerful get along and play nice together you are naive at best.  They generally think their shit doesn't stink and they know everything better than everyone else.  Most would rather gauge their eyes out than lose.  If most of these guys knew it was rigged they would scream bloody murder.  Of course Mike Brown isn't a successful business man.  He's happy collecting his checks and being the league punching bag. 

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16 hours ago, OU_Stripes said:

I find the notion that the NFL gives a crap whether Seattle wins or loses their opener to be absolutely silly.

Yep.

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16 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

How are you so certain? I agree it's unlikely but you act like this sort of thing is impossible.  Do you think the NFL is too pure to do things like that? Are you actually Goodell & have inside knowledge? People do underhanded shit to suit their own interests & lie about it all the damned time but you act like it's some X Files episode to even consider the NFL (of all things) might sometimes do the same.

 

Fact is you're just as in the dark as the rest of us, only far more trusting of the product.

Because they lost that game due to their piss poor execution on several occasions.  Were there some bad calls?  Of course there were.  There are bad calls for and against every team in the NFL that has fans rooting for that said team.  The inability to convert 4 out of 6 times in Seattle territory (missed field goal, Andy's two fumbles, and failed 4th and 1, add in Boyd's slip and Andy's bad throw that should have been touchdown) is absolutely what led to that loss.   They dominated that game and reading it on paper there is no way you would believe the Bengals lost.  Failed execution at critical times is what you wouldnt see on that paper.  Listen, the call at the end of the game was horrendous.  However, conjuring up the fact that the refs made that call to "protect the shield" or ensure the Seahawks won the game is ludicrous to me and completely alleviating of any responsibility.  Thats just my own opinion. 

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15 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

 

 

 

What's the purpose of this?

Without reading his response as im just getting on this morning and catching up.  I can guarantee its in someway to downplay Zac Taylor and how composed he seems to be on the sidelines and in his pressers, how he handles himself and the media to exact.  As if its some sort of con job or "shame on you all" for believing this bullshit.  You know, typical negative Nancy shit and i dont care what happens ill keep being this way until something proves me right bullshit.  Exhausting.   

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10 hours ago, stryker57 said:

you would only need to move all reviews to one location to effectively nudge calls/games toward one side therefore giving a small committee the ability to see or not see overwhelming evidence to change the call or to shade the game towards one team.   i point only towards Daltons fumble due to the fact they somehow found in the review to confirm it. when all views we seen showed enough clear evidence to reverse it. i think the pass interference reviews could give the ability to give some and extra shot after a failed hailmary (1st and goal one the 1 and a free play with time expired). remove some touchdowns with a offensive pass interference block like we seen in preseason.  

 

whether its used or not the ability is now there.

They would simply have no reviews and chalk it up to human error and call it a day if the fix was in.  Makes more sense doesnt it?  Andy Dalton reared back to throw and had the ball just flip out of his hand.  Is he in on it too?  Like someone said above its laughably absurd.    

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No conspiracy, just a lack of respect.  I would personally struggle with officiating a stealers game fairly and objectively because I do not respect that team and how they play.  I may THINK that I’m calling a fair game, but my disrespect for that team would have an influence on the calls that I make.

 

Most (if not all) referees and NFL personnel do not respect the Bengals (and there are historically many valid reasons not to), and I believe that that disrespect influences some of the calls (or non-calls) even if they are trying to be fair.

 

Unfortunately, it will be a long process to start earning that respect.  I personally believe that Zac Taylor is starting us on the right path...and maybe in ten or twenty years with a turnover in referee personnel (and Bengal ownership?) the level of respect will be sufficient to render the officiating in most Bengals games to be fair.

 

just my two cents.  :shrug:

 

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1 hour ago, Cricket said:

No conspiracy, just a lack of respect.  I would personally struggle with officiating a stealers game fairly and objectively because I do not respect that team and how they play.  I may THINK that I’m calling a fair game, but my disrespect for that team would have an influence on the calls that I make.

 

Most (if not all) referees and NFL personnel do not respect the Bengals (and there are historically many valid reasons not to), and I believe that that disrespect influences some of the calls (or non-calls) even if they are trying to be fair.

 

Unfortunately, it will be a long process to start earning that respect.  I personally believe that Zac Taylor is starting us on the right path...and maybe in ten or twenty years with a turnover in referee personnel (and Bengal ownership?) the level of respect will be sufficient to render the officiating in most Bengals games to be fair.

 

just my two cents.  :shrug:

 

I agree with the above whole-heartedly...but I still scratch my head at some of the obvious outliers including the "fumble" at the end of the game.  How can anyone see that as a fumble even with a jaded view?  Even the NFL ref analyst assigned to the game suggested it would clearly be reversed as an incomplete pass.  FWIW, I also agree with those that say its not just the Bengals since I saw other calls this past weekend that were blown and then blown on review.  There are still rules that will always be very subjective even in review I suppose...pass interference, holding, etc., so your preconception theory may indeed influence that subjective view.

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Mr Devil’s advocate here.  No way I am buying that billionaire owners, almost all having made their wealth outside of the NFL are going to risk incarceration and loss of their money printing franchise and business to fix a few games.  Not fucking buying it. 

 

I would even say it is difficult for a ref given the 8 cameras and the fact there are a lot of refs on the field and league officials watching. It’s not like the old days when there was no replay and you were not being graded every game.  Don’t buy the league would be willing to risk the proverbial Golden Goose either. This isn’t the WNBA. 

 

The person with the best chance to fix a game in order (my opinion) is QB, coach then probably defensive back.  Owners have WAY too much to lose. 

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58 minutes ago, SF2 said:

Mr Devil’s advocate here.  No way I am buying that billionaire owners, almost all having made their wealth outside of the NFL are going to risk incarceration and loss of their money printing franchise and business to fix a few games.  Not fucking buying it. 

 

I would even say it is difficult for a ref given the 8 cameras and the fact there are a lot of refs on the field and league officials watching. It’s not like the old days when there was no replay and you were not being graded every game.  Don’t buy the league would be willing to risk the proverbial Golden Goose either. This isn’t the WNBA. 

 

The person with the best chance to fix a game in order (my opinion) is QB, coach then probably defensive back.  Owners have WAY too much to lose. 

Strong point.

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3 hours ago, SF2 said:

Mr Devil’s advocate here.  No way I am buying that billionaire owners, almost all having made their wealth outside of the NFL are going to risk incarceration and loss of their money printing franchise and business to fix a few games.  Not fucking buying it. 

 

I would even say it is difficult for a ref given the 8 cameras and the fact there are a lot of refs on the field and league officials watching. It’s not like the old days when there was no replay and you were not being graded every game.  Don’t buy the league would be willing to risk the proverbial Golden Goose either. This isn’t the WNBA. 

 

The person with the best chance to fix a game in order (my opinion) is QB, coach then probably defensive back.  Owners have WAY too much to lose. 

 

I can accept that maybe it's not going on in the NFL, we'll probably never know.  I could almost even accept that it's never happened in the NFL, though that seems extremely unlikely.  

 

The idea that it couldn't happen is absurd.   World Cup soccer, Premier League Soccer, Tim Donaghy in the NBA.. but for the NFL it's impossible because "it's too popular/too much money involved?"  

 

Also LT is absolutely right about the shady origins of the NFL.  Whether that has any bearing on today is debatable, but when you take the facts into account it's hard to explain how the NFL is somehow the only pro sports league in existence that's never had a game-fixing scandal.

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5 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I can accept that maybe it's not going on in the NFL, we'll probably never know.  I could almost even accept that it's never happened in the NFL, though that seems extremely unlikely.  

 

The idea that it couldn't happen is absurd.   World Cup soccer, Premier League Soccer, Tim Donaghy in the NBA.. but for the NFL it's impossible because "it's too popular/too much money involved?"  

 

Also LT is absolutely right about the shady origins of the NFL.  Whether that has any bearing on today is debatable, but when you take the facts into account it's hard to explain how the NFL is somehow the only pro sports league in existence that's never had a game-fixing scandal.

I certainly think some point shaving has happened in the past.  Probably some sketchy line ups as well.  I just think the money involved now is WAY too much to do it. Dalton  is making $16.2 mil this year. He is not going to risk that. 

 

An NBA ref can shave points far easier than an NFL ref so the bad guys are going to work that angle. 

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All these mature well thought out & reasonable answers to questions is all so foreign to me as a Bengals fan. This is like living in a bizzaro world where up is down, down is up, you say hello when you leave and good by when you arrive. 

 

 

11 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 1:45 PM, SouthPaw said:

No moral victories, but I was more impressed by what I saw in this loss than I was by any win over the last three years. 

I don't know anything, but what instills hope for me is the difference in strategy. The old regime seemed to have their offensive game plan before the game. They were going to run the same offense regardless of who they were playing. And if an aspect of the offense wasn't working ie.. OL, then they would just hope it gets better and keep shoving the square peg in the round hole. The new regime seems to concede that something isn't working and is never going to work in the course of the game and game plan around their weaknesses. And on the other side, exploit weaknesses of the opposing team, which the old staff didn't seem to take advantage of. 

 

I could be wrong, but that's what I see and it not only gives me hope, but I'm actually excited to see what they do next. There were no surprises from week to week with Marvin. 

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43 minutes ago, saphead said:

All these mature well thought out & reasonable answers to questions is all so foreign to me as a Bengals fan. This is like living in a bizzaro world where up is down, down is up, you say hello when you leave and good by when you arrive. 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:59 PM, OU_Stripes said:

I find the notion that the NFL gives a crap whether Seattle wins or loses their opener to be absolutely silly.

Big Cheech, The Goombah, Pastalazoo who operates out the back room of the Newport Eagles Hall sez he don't give a ratto's retto what NF'nL or you think and if you got a problem with that, he'll make you a soprano but not related to Tony.  Cheech said that he took a bath on the point spread as it was and the head ref will have a hard time blowing his whistle in the next game on accounts of he only has four finger and no thumbs on each hand like Chuckie in Sons of Anarchy. Capiche?  He also said if the OU stands for Ohio University, the 110 are performing at halftime Sunday.  

On 9/11/2019 at 9:07 AM, SouthPaw said:

Yep.

Cheech said the same to you and if you don't get a smaller sig he will play hide the salami in your own personal retto.  Badda bing, badda boom.

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On 9/11/2019 at 8:52 AM, UncleEarl said:

He just wants everyone to be as miserable as he is.  One of the reasons I blocked him.  It's too bad the system doesn't block his quotes as well. 

How mature of you. Who made you the Thought Police or Google?     

 

 

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