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Season Ticket Holders Opt Out

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16 minutes ago, Catfish Bob said:

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Bob here has found his own mask.....

 

Head up ass - quickmeme

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4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

For what it's worth, there is disagreement among the experts on mask wearing. Business Insider surveyed 15 experts and 11 recommended mask wearing, 3 said it didn't matter, and 1 said it was counterproductive, endangering the wearer. 

Business Insider?  Not where I usually go for medical advice, but sure...I'll play.

 

Who are these "experts?"  If they aren't public health experts, infectious disease experts, or an epidemiology expert, they aren't an expert.  I see ER docs and other docs shown as experts on COVID transmission.  They aren't.  The ER docs are on the front lines of treating COVID, but know little more than us about its transmission.  They probably had some lectures about epidemiology in med school and a few maybe even did a rotation on the subject, but that isn't close to being an expert on the subject.  It would be like asking your dermatologist about your knee injury.  They may have some rudimentary knowledge, but you don't want to make important decisions based on their input.

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Can't believe all the sheeple stopping for red lights on my way to work this morning SMH

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Keeping up my end of the conversation... Earlier in the thread I said I did not get the original e's about possible options for going to the games with the COVID-19 stuff going on.  I sent an e mail to the Bengals asking about this, not receiving an e like Ray and Amish  posted on here (and tyvm)  I got a reply from them (Alex Couch) that my e had somehow been flagged as not working.  She sent me the original  and said she would get back to me with answers to my specific questions I asked.  They are covered in this e that I guess was just sent out or soon will be.  One question was about not liking the idea of the possibility of having to change my seats.

Whatever... I have decided that I will go and go along with the policies.  I think being there for Athens Joe's first season is worth it.

 

 

 

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Dear High School Harry,
 
Last week, we promised to provide you with A) more information and B) options for the 2020 season.  Please carefully review the information below to make the best decision for your group.
A) GUIDELINES FOR ATTENDING GAMES
The Bengals place a premium on the health and safety of our fans, staff, and players in hosting football games this fall.  To that end, we will implement guidelines consistent with applicable laws, regulations, and NFL rules that are responsive to fan safety concerns.  As you consider attending games this year, please note the following safety measures will be in effect:
 
  • All fans will be required to wear facial coverings at all times unless actively eating or drinking
  • Fans will be required to socially distance when moving about the stadium, including while waiting in lines while entering and exiting the stadium, standing at concession areas, and so forth
  • Tailgating in the parking lots will not be permitted
  • Capacity at Paul Brown Stadium will be greatly reduced in order to provide each seating group physical distance between you and the next nearest seating group
  • The first 8 rows of the lower level will be blocked off
The last two bullet points make clear that seating locations will change this year & if we have approval to host fans at games, we will undergo a stadium-wide re-seating process for all Season Ticket Members.  Please note that the above safety guidelines remain subject to change based on, among other things, any subsequent changes in applicable laws and regulations and NFL guidelines.
B) YOUR OPTIONS FOR THE 2020 SEASON
We understand everyone will have different levels of comfort with attending games given the above guidelines. While we absolutely want you to join us in The Jungle this fall, we understand this may not be the best option for you at this time.  We have outlined 2 simple options below.  Option 1 is for fans who want to attend games in person this fall, subject to our required re-seating plan.  Option 2 is for fans who wish to opt out of 2020 tickets, but keep their seats for 2021.
 
  1. Count me in! If you'd like to join us this fall at Paul Brown Stadium and participate in the re-seating process (taking place in August), no action is needed at this time.  If you have a remaining balance on your account, it will be due at the time of your seat selection.  NOTE:  you may still choose to opt-out of the 2020 season after reviewing your seating options and prior to the completion of the re-seating process.  Please note that if you take no action, you will receive option 1.
  2. I'm watching the 2020 season from home (but I'll be back in The Jungle in 2021!). If you'd like to opt-out of the 2020 season but preserve your seats for 2021, please click the opt-out button below and submit the web form.
*By opting out of the 2020 season, you acknowledge and agree that you are forfeiting your rights to any seats for the 2020 season regardless of your Charter Ownership Agreement (COA) or Season Ticket Member status or priority & you are forfeiting any claims based on the COA or your Season Ticket Member status.  You will retain all your COA and Season Ticket Member priorities, rights, and seat locations for the 2021 season.
 
**If you opt-out and choose to receive a refund, you will be refunded using the payment method you used at the time of purchase. Refunds will be processed within 30 days of receiving your request. If your payment method is no longer valid, please reach out to your Account Manager.
You may have questions so please reach out to our STM Services team by phone at (513) 455-8888 or email with any questions or concerns regarding your account.
 
Stay safe & WHO DEY!
Alex Couch
Manager, Season Ticket Member Services
 
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19 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Business Insider?  Not where I usually go for medical advice, but sure...I'll play.

 

Who are these "experts?"  If they aren't public health experts, infectious disease experts, or an epidemiology expert, they aren't an expert.  I see ER docs and other docs shown as experts on COVID transmission.  They aren't.  The ER docs are on the front lines of treating COVID, but know little more than us about its transmission.  They probably had some lectures about epidemiology in med school and a few maybe even did a rotation on the subject, but that isn't close to being an expert on the subject.  It would be like asking your dermatologist about your knee injury.  They may have some rudimentary knowledge, but you don't want to make important decisions based on their input.

 

The experts are listed in the attached article. There are experts on all sides of this. Pick your expert or the expert who tells you what you want to hear. It's worth noting the epidemiologists have been pretty spectacularly wrong about the course of the disease, both to the upside and downside. Epidemiology is a social science like economics or sociology, not a hard science like biology or virology. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-masks-do-they-work-doctors-health-experts-weigh-in-2020-4

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

The experts are listed in the attached article. There are experts on all sides of this. Pick your expert or the expert who tells you what you want to hear. It's worth noting the epidemiologists have been pretty spectacularly wrong about the course of the disease, both to the upside and downside. Epidemiology is a social science like economics or sociology, not a hard science like biology or virology. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-masks-do-they-work-doctors-health-experts-weigh-in-2020-4

Yes, the epidemiology models have been horrible.  Much like economics there are far to many factors to consider.  Still, they understand how a disease spreads better than some generic CEO MD which were quite a few on that list.  Actually, that list isn't as bad as some I have seen.  Yesterday on our local TV station they had an interview with an "expert."  Their exact words.  He was a sports economist.   He was talking about how the disease would spread as it pertained to college sports.  Ridiculous. 

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HSH, same boilerplate email I got from different STH rep.

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FWIW I had a relative call down to the ticket office to get some more detail on how things would go:

 

The Bengals ticket office will call each season ticket member in order of seniority.  They will pick their seats, then move on to the next season ticket holder.  If you don't like the seats available the option to opt out will remain.  You can also choose to reduce the number of tickets at that time with no penalty.  They do not know capacity limitations yet and are still waiting on the state/local government & NFL input.

 

If I had to guess capacity will probably be something like the Ravens communicated at 14,000 and stadium operations limited to the lower bowl,while also potentially limiting each season ticket holder to less than the 8 home games to allow all season ticket holders, who choose Option 1, to attend home games.

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No I see non-mask wearers as mouth breathers who dont know the law or the numerous SCOTUS rulings on how government has the right to protect the collective health of society.

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Government can quarantine infected persons. Public health authority doesn't extend to uninfected persons. A 1905 Supreme Court case called Jacobson says cities can mandate vaccinations to fight epidemics though it seems to be in conflict with Roe v Wade. 

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Interesting side notes as to the children of Jacobson

 

The Supreme Court reaffirmed its decision in Jacobson in Zucht v. King (1922), which held that a school system could refuse admission to a student who failed to receive a required vaccination. Jacobson has been invoked in numerous other Supreme Court cases as an example of a baseline exercise of the police power, with cases relying on it including Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927) (sterilization of the mentally retarded), Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U.S. 158 (1944) (limitations on parents having children distribute pamphlets in the street), and Vernonia School District 47J v. Acton, 515 U.S. 646 (1995) (allowing random drug testing of students).

 

During the 2020 coronavirus pandemic, the federal United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit relied on Jacobson when upholding a Texas regulation halting abortions by including it in its ban on non-essential medical services and surgeries, consistent with Justice Blackmun's citing of the case in Roe v. Wade.

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Quote

 

Jacobson v. Massachusetts:

“The Constitution,” Justice John Marshall Harlan wrote for a 7-2 majority, “does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint.” Instead, “a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic.” Its members “may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.”

States also have the power, beyond criminal law enforcement, to make quarantine and isolation effective. If presented with widespread noncompliance, governors may call National Guard units to put their orders into force, to safeguard state property and infrastructure, and to maintain the peace. In some states, individuals who violate emergency orders can be detained without charge and held in isolation

 

https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/commentary/constitutional-guide-emergency-powers?fbclid=IwAR2Q7DGEUyF_V6eR2O47IV3OCX5DelgHDg1YV5UeDWLbWMaHnZrjVTWtXHQ

 

And the Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank

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Jacobson permitted the states to act in pandemic emergencies. It did not require a federal responsibility to mandate. In that case, the integrity and safeguards of the 14th Amendment were maintained for subsequent challenges in federal cases. 
 

 

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no that's true, that decision is up to the states. 

 

it's why Trump can't force a reopening and each state reopening is up to the governors 

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yup, in fact IIRC cities and other localities have the right to enforce things  with regard to public health and safety even if it goes against the governor, I could be wrong about that one though.

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In Ohio, localities may enact their own plans. They cannot, however, supersede or replace health emergency orders by the state. Even the Governor cannot authorize or declare anything in a health emergency--the State Health Director, by statute, is the authority.  

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21 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Or any other President.

 

Federal officials can take actions to prevent state officials from violating the constitutional rights of their citizens. That's the whole point of the post civil war civil rights acts. 

 

So Trump or some other president could make a finding that Whitmer, Pritzker, or some other governor is violating the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th amendment with their shutdown orders. People aren't being arrested in Michigan and Illinois but are being threatened with fines and ultimately arrest. A president who disagrees with the orders could threaten to arrest sheriffs and police chiefs who enforce them. 

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On 7/9/2020 at 10:29 AM, sparky151 said:

 

For what it's worth, there is disagreement among the experts on mask wearing. Business Insider surveyed 15 experts and 11 recommended mask wearing, 3 said it didn't matter, and 1 said it was counterproductive, endangering the wearer. 

man... only 73% of experts say to do it...... why even bother?

 

and depending on context, what basis did the 3 that said it didnt matter say so... sick person wearing mask only? non sick person only? both?  it seems pretty clear that the studies have sick person cut down on spread at 30-60% and healthy person blocking with mask at 15-40%, even at the low numbers youre approaching cutting spread IN HALF.

 

 

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