Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

To your list:  If these guys are comparable to Sewell how come none of them even grade out in the first half of the 1st round?  I would dare to venture that Sewell is a consensus Top 5 pick for a reas

Let's also not get confused into accepting that Sewell is the only OL in this draft that can block, OK?

Woah there, receivers can only be found in the top 5 of the draft which is why we need to pass on the best offensive lineman available even though our potentially HoF rookie QB had his season ended by

Posted Images

2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Trade and give up a stud ? LOL

 

The Falcons are in a weird spot because unless they want a QB there really isn't a need fit at all there for them.  They have a good young OL, a WR 1A and 1B, a young TE they traded for last year and a vet QB that unless you trade him isn't giving up the spot until retirement.  They do however need serious defensive help.

 

The play here would be the Lions trying to get ahead of the Bengals for Chase.  Their receiver group is downgraded at best from free agency and they have good young linemen in the most important spots (LT and C) as well as an extremely high pick TE from two years ago.  This is totally plausible based on the two teams' relative situations, at least if the Lions think Chase is that much better than Smith or Waddle.  Staying put certainly  isn't "bad" for them either if they like those two at WR or if they're happy to take a Slater to make the OL even scarier or take a Parsons or similar to help their D out.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

The Falcons are in a weird spot because unless they want a QB there really isn't a need fit at all there for them.  They have a good young OL, a WR 1A and 1B, a young TE they traded for last year and a vet QB that unless you trade him isn't giving up the spot until retirement.  They do however need serious defensive help.

 

The play here would be the Lions trying to get ahead of the Bengals for Chase.  Their receiver group is downgraded at best from free agency and they have good young linemen in the most important spots (LT and C) as well as an extremely high pick TE from two years ago.  This is totally plausible based on the two teams' relative situations, at least if the Lions think Chase is that much better than Smith or Waddle.  Staying put certainly  isn't "bad" for them either if they like those two at WR or if they're happy to take a Slater to make the OL even scarier or take a Parsons or similar to help their D out.

The Lions moving up and give an extra pick for Chase when Waddle and Smith are there..

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, claptonrocks said:

The Lions moving up and give an extra pick for Chase when Waddle and Smith are there..

 

 

Yep, as I said they'd really have to think that highly of Chase, I'm not sure they do but who knows?  They do have extra picks to play with but if I was a Lions fan I'd want them to keep their picks and fill holes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, membengal said:

Trams trading up for a non-QB is awfully rare in the last two decades. 

 

Yeah a more logical play is a QB-needy team (Broncos?  Pats?) would trade up to 4 for a one.  I just don't know if those teams have the resources unless they're giving up a king's ransom of future picks.  That would still make sense for Atlanta if they're sure it's D they want, but that would require that they believe Parsons/Paye or a CB is worth dropping for.  To be fair if the 49ers take Jones the QB picture gets a bit weird as one might drop anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tobin has said the Bengals will sit tight. So of course the Falcons are getting the calls. Trading down makes lots of sense for them.

 

I could imagine Detroit trading up for Sewell if the cost is low. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, spicoli said:


Ugh

 

Also suggests they will likely take Chase if they draft at that position, IMO.  Julio Jones is 32 and gets injured a lot these days.  He would be a good fit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Also suggests they will likely take Chase if they draft at that position. 


Fine by me, I’m not a Sewell guy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spicoli said:

Oh I think the Falcons take Pitts if they stay put. 

 

Maybe.  Chess match in progress.  Not sure if MB plays chess.  Probably a checkers guy.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Start at 7:50 into the podcast.  Interesting debate on if we should take Sewell or Chase.

 

https://overcast.fm/+lieoM97P4

 

edit: I’m not saying I necessarily agree, but here’s a brief summary if you don’t want to listen.  Also, this is from PFF so may not hold value to some.

 

TLDR; draft Chase.  You’re better served with an average line and a great WR.  Part of the pressure we faced was b/c WRs couldn’t get open early in their routes.  QBs hold the ball under 3 seconds on average, don’t waste draft capital/money trying to build an elite line, get the skill players. The “build the oline” way of thinking lacks creativity and isn’t well thought out for today’s game. If you have an average line that’s more than enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don’t care who we get between Chase, Pitts, Slater or even Sewell. Tough to go wrong any way they go really. I do believe the two best non-QB guys are Pitts and Chase however. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, spicoli said:

I really don’t care who we get between Chase, Pitts, Slater or even Sewell. Tough to go wrong any way they go really. I do believe the two best non-QB guys are Pitts and Chase however. 

 

Fair.  They are going to get a good player.  Personally, I don't feel comfortable with the offensive line as constructed.  I can live with the WRs the Bengals currently have.  My fear for Burrow's health is significant, so I would lean Sewell as all three should be standouts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

Start at 7:50 into the podcast.  Interesting debate on if we should take Sewell or Chase.

 

https://overcast.fm/+lieoM97P4

 

edit: I’m not saying I necessarily agree, but here’s a brief summary if you don’t want to listen.  Also, this is from PFF so may not hold value to some.

 

TLDR; draft Chase.  You’re better served with an average line and a great WR.  Part of the pressure we faced was b/c WRs couldn’t get open early in their routes.  QBs hold the ball under 3 seconds on average, don’t waste draft capital/money trying to build an elite line, get the skill players. The “build the oline” way of thinking lacks creativity and isn’t well thought out for today’s game. If you have an average line that’s more than enough.

 

Here's the wrinkle. The Bengals don't have an average line. They have a terrible line (PFF themselves ranked them #30). Watch the Bengals first games last season against the Browns, Ravens and Stealers. The Bengals couldn't run the ball and Burrow was getting hit so fast and so hard it was actually scary. This isn't a draft this guy or draft that guy statement, it's simply just the truth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

Here's the wrinkle. The Bengals don't have an average line. They have a terrible line (PFF themselves ranked them #30). Watch the Bengals first games last season against the Browns, Ravens and Stealers. The Bengals couldn't run the ball and Burrow was getting hit so fast and so hard it was actually scary. This isn't a draft this guy or draft that guy statement, it's simply just the truth.

Dufus Tobin said the other day that there are 'OL starters in the draft past round 1' - not sure if he meant instant starters or to be developed. But yes, our OL is crap and a few of the current starters should be backups at best. Lots of work to do but we also have 10 other spots we need filling. Price you pay for 5 years of hit drafting

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Fair.  They are going to get a good player.  Personally, I don't feel comfortable with the offensive line as constructed.  I can live with the WRs the Bengals currently have.  My fear for Burrow's health is significant, so I would lean Sewell as all three should be standouts. 

That's where I am. What happens if Jonah or Reiff gets hurt, which is not unlikely based on Jonah's time here... and Reiff is on a 1 year deal. I mean, we need all three of those draftees, but damn - watching the franchise go down in his rookie season like that, and such a bad injury - I'd put blue chip everything in front of him.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

Here's the wrinkle. The Bengals don't have an average line. They have a terrible line (PFF themselves ranked them #30). Watch the Bengals first games last season against the Browns, Ravens and Stealers. The Bengals couldn't run the ball and Burrow was getting hit so fast and so hard it was actually scary. This isn't a draft this guy or draft that guy statement, it's simply just the truth.

 

True, but if you go by PFF’s logic, Reiff and Williams are average to above average and Trey is slightly below average.  Add an average starter at RG or LG and your line is probably average.  Add on top of that better coaching, a better WR corps (that gets open sooner) and a more experience Burrow and the line looks better.  The one thing I don’t think their analysis accounted for was run blocking, but if you’ve got a good back he would make an average looking line look good.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, spicoli said:

I really don’t care who we get between Chase, Pitts, Slater or even Sewell. Tough to go wrong any way they go really. I do believe the two best non-QB guys are Pitts and Chase however. 

 

This is where I am at. I will be happy with any of those 3 guys. I just want them to maximize their value so they dont have to reach for a guy later or get a guy based on some need that isnt that good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 From the Athletic:

 

Tuesday, April 6: Are elite receivers more valuable than elite O-linemen?

The data scientists at Pro Football Focus kicked off a pretty vigorous debate among draft analysts and NFL observers with an argument that the Bengals should take LSU wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase or Florida tight end Kyle Pitts over Oregon tackle Penei Sewell, presented in the PFF Forecast podcast with Eric Eager and George Chahrouri.

Much of this revolves around their findings that wide receivers hold more positional value than offensive linemen when it comes to predicting offensive performance, especially as one enters into elite territory. While a bad tackle can hurt you a lot compared to an average counterpart, an elite tackle doesn’t offer that much more in terms of benefit. On the other hand, receivers generally scale the offense up with them, where every additional bit of talent at the position puts more points on the board.

Not only that, they make the case that pressure isn’t just a line stat. Quarterbacks and the passing offense control pressure and sack rate by getting rid of the ball more quickly, and QBs can get rid of the ball faster when they have more talented receivers around them.

That’s the theory, anyway. A number of football analysts objected vociferously. For them, a player like Sewell is much more scarce than a player like Chase. The Oregon tackle is supposedly a near-generational prospect, while Chase doesn’t stand out among the sea of elite receivers we’ve seen over the past few years. Both sides make fairly compelling arguments and both positions are deep in this year’s draft.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BengalFanInTO said:

 

Here's the wrinkle. The Bengals don't have an average line. They have a terrible line (PFF themselves ranked them #30). Watch the Bengals first games last season against the Browns, Ravens and Stealers. The Bengals couldn't run the ball and Burrow was getting hit so fast and so hard it was actually scary. This isn't a draft this guy or draft that guy statement, it's simply just the truth.

 

Agreed and this has been my point all along.  I might buy this argument with the OL as average being "enough", especially since the OL is perhaps like no other in football a cohesive unit - a single entity - that must work in unison to succeed and thus a single elite guy doesn't guarantee anything, but... we're starting from "our OL is trash" and need to do actual work to get to average. 

 

Since they didn't address it much at all in FA they have no choice but to address it in the draft, and with as close to a "can't miss" as they can muster IMO.  Granted that given my first statement about being cohesive it does very much matter that the coaches be comfortable with the pick of an OL as a "fit" more so than a "talent".  That gets a little bit challenged when you're talking about a blind-side protector but it still applies IMO.  The unfortunate part is Pollack is starting from scratch and doesn't have a full picture of what he's already got, which I have to assume clouds things a bit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

The unfortunate part is Pollack is starting from scratch and doesn't have a full picture of what he's already got, which I have to assume clouds things a bit.

There is enough NSFW film on our OL to know what he has, who is likely salvageable, what we need, etc. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

 From the Athletic:

 

Tuesday, April 6: Are elite receivers more valuable than elite O-linemen?

 

 

The thing that sorta makes me ignore all this is I don't see a viable *statistical* comparison one can make between an OL and WR.  Stats for a WR are easy in simplified form, and granted I'm saying this without digging into what PFF's WAR model is, but comparing to OL it gets almost subjective for a layperson because first and foremost we don't know what the line call was.  Did the guy do his job?  Did he pancake a guy, but out of position?  Did the QB ad-lib after the lineman made a mistake?  Did the receiver run the wrong route but the QB adjusted?  Did the OL's unexpected-but-heroic blocking of two guys allow the WR to make the play?

 

They can't know any of these things.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

There is enough NSFW film on our OL to know what he has, who is likely salvageable, what we need, etc. 

 

I would think so too, but... OL coaches are a STRANGE BUNCH. 😅

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...