Tee Higgins requests a trade !

[dex]

That Valuation Diamond pay chart is only about APY, not guaranteed money...which is the overriding sticking point for agents. Pittman's total 3 yr contract is over 60 percent fully guaranteed. Orlando Brown may be the Bengals boldest non-QB contract structure, and even that one is less than 50 percent guaranteed. The Chiefs front office was probably shocked that Brown's agent accepted the contract. Seems like Brown really wanted to play for Cincinnati.

[|BlackJesus|]

32 minutes ago, dex said:

Seems like Brown really wanted to play for Cincinnati.

 

Orlando took less with the Bengals as they promised him he could play LT. The Chiefs wanted him to move to RT. But Orlando sees playing LT as a promise he made to his late father, so it is more important to him than maximum money. 

[Le Tigre]

7 hours ago, dex said:

You may be overlooking the guaranteed money aspect, which in many cases is the single most important aspect to agents. Pittman is getting 46M of the 70M guaranteed over the 3 year contract. The most Cincinnati has ever guaranteed on a non-QB salary is 31M to Orlando Brown. So far it doesn't matter to the Bengals front office (nor to the agents they are sparring with) that the players almost always eventually get the money and more. They refuse to put those kind of guarantees into these contracts the way the agents demand, and until they do it's going to remain a problem.

Guaranteed money used to be called Signing Bonus...it's just more enormous now. And the Bengals used to be NFL leaders in smallish signing bonuses. They were behind the times then, they are behind the times now. If what we see in whatever real or imaginary negotiations taking place is the time-honored Bengal dig-heels-in, then everything will break down (again) and they will use Tee on the one-year rental they assigned him to be. 

 

 

 

 

[dex]

6 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Guaranteed money used to be called Signing Bonus...it's just more enormous now. And the Bengals used to be NFL leaders in smallish signing bonuses. They were behind the times then, they are behind the times now. If what we see in whatever real or imaginary negotiations taking place is the time-honored Bengal dig-heels-in, then everything will break down (again) and they will use Tee on the one-year rental they assigned him to be. 

 

 

 

 

I've already accepted that this is Higgins last year in Cincinnati. I just worry that the same situation will repeat itself next with Chase, only on a larger scale.

 

The front office must feel pride when they are ranked number one in the NFL every year in Cap Health. As a fan that's not an area I want them to be ranked number one. Don't want them to be ranked last either. Middle of the pack in Cap Health would suit me just fine.

[|BlackJesus|]

Just now, dex said:

I just worry that the same situation will repeat itself next with Chase

 

There is a 0% chance the Bengals won't extend Chase. He will also be the highest or 2nd highest (Jefferson) paid WR in NFL history.

 

... That's part of the reason they won't extend Tee though. 

[dex]

Just now, BlackJesus said:

 

There is a 0% chance the Bengals won't extend Chase. He will also be the highest or 2nd highest (Jefferson) paid WR in NFL history.

 

... That's part of the reason they won't extend Tee though. 

I hope you are right, but extending him will mean they have to do something they have never done before in their history.

 

Are they willing to set a new precedent in terms of guaranteed money for a non-QB? I hope so. Because that is what it will take.

[|BlackJesus|]

25 minutes ago, dex said:

Are they willing to set a new precedent in terms of guaranteed money for a non-QB? 

 

... Yes. But only for Chase, because him and Burrow are considered a "packaged deal". They won't do it for any others though. 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Did they not just do that for Orlando Brown Jr? Does that not count because it doesn't fit the narrative?

[|BlackJesus|]

12 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Did they not just do that for Orlando Brown Jr?

 

I think Dex is referencing guaranteeing money after the first year. All of Orlando's big bonus was paid out in the first year. 

[dex]

17 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Did they not just do that for Orlando Brown Jr? Does that not count because it doesn't fit the narrative?

Brown doesn't count because the Bengals still guaranteed less than 50 percent of his total contract. Sure, it was progress by Bengals contract structure standards, but it still doesn't match what's going on around the league. Pay close attention to how much money Justin Jefferson gets, and what percentage of that is guaranteed. I have no doubt Chase's agent will be following that one closely.

[T-Dub]

17 minutes ago, dex said:

Brown doesn't count because the Bengals still guaranteed less than 50 percent of his total contract. Sure, it was progress by Bengals contract structure standards, but it still doesn't match what's going on around the league.

 

 

Like I said..  Ol' Musty is not built for this league.  He's a decent person in a business run by a bunch of callous, avaricious complete bastards.  Can't fault the guy for having ethics but the National Football League has no place for all that. Then when his Juniors try to play hardball it usually seems to backfire.

 

[Jamie_B]

2 hours ago, dex said:

I hope you are right, but extending him will mean they have to do something they have never done before in their history.

 

Are they willing to set a new precedent in terms of guaranteed money for a non-QB? I hope so. Because that is what it will take.

 

They've already optioned Chase so we have him for 2 more years regardless. 

 

Chase also said he wants a large upfront bonus so they may just do what they did for Orlando and give him a big signing bonus without changing how the structure guarantees. 

[JC]

They won’t even be able to talk contract with Chase until they guarantee at least the second year. Amon Ra just got guarantees into the third year of his extension. JJ may just get the full year three guarantee.

[Le Tigre]

3 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

 

There is a 0% chance the Bengals won't extend Chase. He will also be the highest or 2nd highest (Jefferson) paid WR in NFL history.

 

... That's part of the reason they won't extend Tee though. 

With respect, BJ…that is bollocks. Whoever is the “highest paid WR in NFL history” means zero to the place where it matters: on the field. Uno might be the most productive WR in NFL history (and that would be important) but he is just one guy, and he can’t do it alone. 
 

The bollocks part is the constant siren song of “no money”. They have it, they just don’t want to put it into other talents towards actually really competing for championships. They prefer—and always have—to “live by the draft”. They are perpetually stuck in “building” mode. 

[T-Dub]

7 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

With respect, BJ…that is bollocks. Whoever is the “highest paid WR in NFL history” means zero to the place where it matters: on the field. Uno might be the most productive WR in NFL history (and that would be important) but he is just one guy, and he can’t do it alone. 
 

The bollocks part is the constant siren song of “no money”. They have it, they just don’t want to put it into other talents towards actually really competing for championships. They prefer—and always have—to “live by the draft”. They are perpetually stuck in “building” mode. 

 

What other NFL team is the primary income for an entire family?

 

You have to understand, every million they spend is one less prize-winning show pony for the great grandkids.  That's no way to live. 🥷

[sparky151]

3 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

 

There is a 0% chance the Bengals won't extend Chase. He will also be the highest or 2nd highest (Jefferson) paid WR in NFL history.

 

... That's part of the reason they won't extend Tee though. 

 

I wouldn't say the chance is 0%. They'll certainly make him offers but will they offer him a structure he accepts? They may decide they'd rather get the best 7 years of his career and move on rather than change their business practices. 

[stryker57]

jesus you all  just throw money around when it isnt yours. 

 you sound like these agents. "just guarantee everything" 

are they going to guarantee production?

no. 

so lets start getting realistic.

everyone wants the top contract ,

everyone then wants contracts renegotiated. 

its no wonder most people cant afford to go to a game. 

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

I wouldn't say the chance is 0%. They'll certainly make him offers but will they offer him a structure he accepts? They may decide they'd rather get the best 7 years of his career and move on rather than change their business practices. 

 

 

Give him time to throw & JB's going to make a star out of any pass-catcher with a bit of talent.  Everyone else is ultimately replaceable as far as I'm concerned. 

 

However.. If they're going to let these guys walk over money they need to be spending it wisely elsewhere. They've thrown a good bit of that money & now draft capital at fixing the OL.  I'd like to think the pressure is on for Pollack - if he's on the last year of his contract as I've read? The Bengals don't really fire people.

 

That aside, Higgins should've been traded and Henderson, too.  I don't want players that are here only because they don't have a choice.  If the strategy is build through the draft they have to turn players on their way out into more draft picks.  Golden opportunity to do that but they chose to sit on their hands.

[Homer_Rice]

2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

With respect, BJ…that is bollocks. Whoever is the “highest paid WR in NFL history” means zero to the place where it matters: on the field. Uno might be the most productive WR in NFL history (and that would be important) but he is just one guy, and he can’t do it alone. 
 

The bollocks part is the constant siren song of “no money”. They have it, they just don’t want to put it into other talents towards actually really competing for championships. They prefer—and always have—to “live by the draft”. They are perpetually stuck in “building” mode. 

What? Are you living in the 1990s? One series away from winning the Super Bowl and one series away from returning to the Super Bowl? And definitely a contender this year.

 

It's okay to not like the business model or practices, but stop saying silly things. The team is competitive and doing fine. And they are not bankrupt, like some of you jokers would do if you were running the show.

[MichaelWeston]

There isn't a chance they don't pay Chase. They haven't ever hesitated to pay their stars. They didn't pay Jessie Bates because he wasn't playing all that well and he wanted high guarantees and they thought they had his replacement. Whitworth was very old, people forget that him playing so long is a complete anomaly. Reader was coming off a bad injury. They arent paying Higgins because they have Chase and Burrow and putting so much money into WR isn't a good practice. 

 

The only news we ever hear is from players and agents. We don't hear from the team because they are professional. 

[claptonrocks]

10 hours ago, dex said:

I've already accepted that this is Higgins last year in Cincinnati. I just worry that the same situation will repeat itself next with Chase, only on a larger scale.

 

The front office must feel pride when they are ranked number one in the NFL every year in Cap Health. As a fan that's not an area I want them to be ranked number one. Don't want them to be ranked last either. Middle of the pack in Cap Health would suit me just fine.

They are....Its a business.

Every year more and more great receivers are coming into the league.

Hell Burton may be better than Tee this year who knows.

Point is they lose receivers but Allways have replacements ready to take over...

 

 

 

[|High School Harry|]

9 hours ago, stryker57 said:

jesus you all  just throw money around when it isnt yours. 

 

 

Let's leave politics and religion out of this.

There's a board for that elsewhere on this site.

[Le Tigre]

7 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

What? Are you living in the 1990s? One series away from winning the Super Bowl and one series away from returning to the Super Bowl? And definitely a contender this year.

 

It's okay to not like the business model or practices, but stop saying silly things. The team is competitive and doing fine. And they are not bankrupt, like some of you jokers would do if you were running the show.

The NFL in the year 2024 called. It wants the Bengals to join the rat race. 
 

I didn’t create the insanity that is the modern day money lust by today’s “entertainers”. We are both old enough and have listened to enough Savoy Brown to know that, back in the day, every NFL ownership was exactly on the same model as our Bengals. And that was exactly the way to be. 
 

Most normal people are fiscally prudent—as are most good businesses. That is not only logical—it’s mathematical. 
 

This is a different time—not saying it is correct in approach. Join the arms race and spend yourself silly fighting to get to the next Roman Numeral game, or risk falling off into the nether world of “oh yeah…that team”. As I recall, this team was 9-8 a year ago. In the shortened life span of today’s interest, Super Bowl appearances and participation in conference championship games are forgotten in seconds. 
 

Logic dictates that, in today’s NFL, “building for the future” models (read draft cheaper 4 year college rentals and hope they play at all-pro levels each season), while fiscally sound, likely will achieve at best, a very small window of success. And refusing to deal with an already fully developed product, in the hopes that an emotionally damaged college brat can do the same thing instantaneously, is playing the lottery.
 

Today’s short-term NFL attention span demands win now, and big. Looking too far down the road, again while logically sound, doesn’t fit with the narrative. 
 

 

[Homer_Rice]

I'm not buying it. The Bengals, under their current management, including their business philosophy and practices, are a competitive team. If one doesn't like that, okay. Speaking for myself, I actually like the fiscal prudence of the Bengals. Always have, even when they sucked donkey balls. Now that they have got some wise football minds in the house, I'm absolutely content to allow these guys to steer their ship without any back-biting from me. I'm enjoying the ride. I encourage you to do the same.

[JC]

I’m enjoying the ride - but there’s reason to be concerned. The rookie contract on the quarterback is up. They haven’t drafted particularly well. They are a year away from letting a 2nd very good to elite player walk over not wanting to guarantee a second year that they would end up playing out anyways.

 

They are getting ready to start playing this game on hard mode. The league is starting to guarantee partials in year 3 for non QBs and the Bengals have never gone past year 1. Going to be tough to retain and sign outside FA if this keeps up. The cap health is nice until you realize the extra cash is going into front loading deals for guys like Drew Sample..