fredtoast Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 While I think we need to improve our pass rush I don't think Michael Johnson played as badly as some people seem to think. He did have on;y 3.5 sacks, but was pretty productive in other areas. Here is where he ranked among DEs 11th in PD's (tipped passes) 14th in stuffs (tackles for loss on run play) 16th in solo tackles. 24th hurries 26th total tackles It is hard to compare stats for DEs because some play in 3-4 schemes, but thhis is the best I could come up with. MJ played pretty solid last year. If we draft a pass rush specialist we should still keep MJ to play a lot of snaps on 1st and 2nd down. He will make $5.1 million next year. that sound like a lot of money, but it wouldn't really buy a much better DE on the free agent market. If we were hard against the cap then we might be forced to cut him just to save a million dollars, but we don't need the cap space so no need to take a risk on an unknown free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, fredtoast said: While I think we need to improve our pass rush I don't think Michael Johnson played as badly as some people seem to think. He did have on;y 3.5 sacks, but was pretty productive in other areas. Here is where he ranked among DEs 11th in PD's (tipped passes) 14th in stuffs (tackles for loss on run play) 16th in solo tackles. 24th hurries 26th total tackles It is hard to compare stats for DEs because some play in 3-4 schemes, but thhis is the best I could come up with. MJ played pretty solid last year. If we draft a pass rush specialist we should still keep MJ to play a lot of snaps on 1st and 2nd down. He will make $5.1 million next year. that sound like a lot of money, but it wouldn't really buy a much better DE on the free agent market. If we were hard against the cap then we might be forced to cut him just to save a million dollars, but we don't need the cap space so no need to take a risk on an unknown free agent. Looking at your stats MJ is average at best. Average is not "pretty solid". Average players is the reason why the Bengals are drafting 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Exceptionally mediocre and exceptionally overpaid. If he was a $3m a year DE, fine. But I'd cut him as fast as possible at his current salary. he also dropped at least 3 balls that floated directly into his lap this year that could have been game changing plays. Hes just not good. Need to upgrade that spot dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Either way, I think we draft a DE early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 This team finished 21st in sacks, 30th in fumbles forced, 24th in opponents 3rd down conversion percentage, and 23rd in opponent's yards per carry. Where do you suppose it needs improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dautcom08 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 He made some of the most un-athletic moves I've seen in his career this season. He has no bend as a pass rusher and seems like just a warm body out there in all other aspects. Time for him, Peko, Maualuga and Dansby to start packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 If Johnson stays he should be used in a situational role, limit his snaps and maybe his production will improve. I know people that know him and they say he's a really good guy off the field, he's a guy you want to keep around...if he's productive. With the increase in the salary cap and the Bengals current situation, I don't think you have to cut him for cap reasons so I would keep him around in a back up role and draft a young stud at #9 to get after the QB in pass rush situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I thought teams ran and ran effectively at his side of the line and got the corner. He did not seal the line and was often caught in traffic. He was over there, some forgettable linebacker I have forgotten and Adam Jones. Seems like every team that ran to their offensive left would get the corner and a few yards or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I thought he was garbage. Almost never noticed him. All I ever heard was Atkins, Dunlap n Burfict making plays. It's sad when a street free agent in the middle of the year Gilberry makes more of an impact. Way overpaid. The Bucs cut him and when picked him up n signed him to an extention. Crazy if you think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Johnson isn't garbage, but he isn't in his prime anymore either. He has abilities, but they are in decline. Since Hunt doesn't seem to be his replacement the Bengals do need to start worrying about that pronto. I would love to see an upgrade at RE next season, but it may be 2 seasons away if the decide to address it in the draft. There are bigger holes on the team that would influence a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, UncleEarl said: Johnson isn't garbage, but he isn't in his prime anymore either. He has abilities, but they are in decline. Since Hunt doesn't seem to be his replacement the Bengals do need to start worrying about that pronto. I would love to see an upgrade at RE next season, but it may be 2 seasons away if the decide to address it in the draft. There are bigger holes on the team that would influence a first round pick. I'd argue end is the biggest need on the team. Pass rush has been pathetic for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 An "average starter" in the NFL is not as easy to replace as some of you claim. Very few teams have 3 DEs better than MJ. Basedb on the fact that he is not near the worst in any level of production among starting DEs it is clear that several teams do not have more than one DE that is better than MJ. "Average starting DEs" are not that easy to replace. In fact they are in high demand. MJ was the 21st highest paid DE last year at $6.125 million. In '17 he makes 1 million less. $5.125 million would have ranked 27th in the league last year. With salaries going up every year I am guessing his salary will rank down in the 30's for '17. We are not going to be able to get more production for the money on the free agent market. And with free agents there is always an unknown quality. Remember I agree we need to get a pass rusher to at least play on third down, but MJ is a solid starting DE and they are not as easy to find as many of you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Madieu Superstar said: This team finished 21st in sacks, 30th in fumbles forced, 24th in opponents 3rd down conversion percentage, and 23rd in opponent's yards per carry. Where do you suppose it needs improvement? To be honest I did not watch all of the games at the end of the year, but early on a lot of the problems with ur run defense seemed to be poor LB play. Pass defense is harder to tell because sometimes it is impossible to know who blew the coverage but when I see a LB a yard or two behind a wide open receiver I have a pretty good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, fredtoast said: To be honest I did not watch all of the games at the end of the year, but early on a lot of the problems with ur run defense seemed to be poor LB play. Pass defense is harder to tell because sometimes it is impossible to know who blew the coverage but when I see a LB a yard or two behind a wide open receiver I have a pretty good idea. Our LB'S blow. That's no secret. This team refuses to get with times in realizing how important cover skills are for LB's. But if you're a DE who plays with Atkins and Dunlap and you can't get to the QB, you're not doing your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, akiliMVP said: I'd argue end is the biggest need on the team. Pass rush has been pathetic for awhile. Yep, agreed. Pass Rush is pathetic- somehow, even with Atkins and Dunlap. Need someone else there in a bad way. More so than any position other than oLine but I seriously doubt they spend a pick there in the 1st after the 2015 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 RDE IS the biggest need on the team. Atkins n Dunlap at least provided pressure but they need help. Michael Johnson was left one on one on almost every play. N almost did nothing. Anyone that plays 500 plays a year can get 4 sacks by accident. MJ is a subpar player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, UncleEarl said: Johnson isn't garbage, but he isn't in his prime anymore either. He has abilities, but they are in decline. Since Hunt doesn't seem to be his replacement the Bengals do need to start worrying about that pronto. I would love to see an upgrade at RE next season, but it may be 2 seasons away if the decide to address it in the draft. There are bigger holes on the team that would influence a first round pick. He is 29, not exactly AARP or James Harrison old, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Beyond Dunlap, Geno, Vontaze, Burfict, Illoka, and Williams, there are plenty of spots for improvement. Peko time is over. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Those stats show that Johnson is well above average. There are 64 starting DEs. The problem is that he isn't great at what we need him to be great at. He saves us just 2.5 million this year if cut. It's a no brainer to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 He's no where above average. You are lying to yourself if you think he's above average. DUNLAP is above average. Atkins is great. MJ is below average. If he was really above average like you think do you really think pass rush is a problem since we have 3 above players by your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Right. So cut all linemen who aren't great. That solves everything. And I used to wonder why NFL coaches didn't think like fans did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Cut all the overpaid veteran players that are subpar. Yes. Or let's keep doing it the Bengals way since it's worked out amazing since 1990. Smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said: Cut all the overpaid veteran players that are subpar. Yes. Or let's keep doing it the Bengals way since it's worked out amazing since 1990. Smh I know right? mind boggling the egg shell attitude some fans still have after having absolutely zero success by NFL standards in 26 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 5 hours ago, SF2 said: He is 29, not exactly AARP or James Harrison old, not even close. Johnson is an 8 year vet. That's pretty old in NFL years. If you just look at statistics Johnson is still who he has always been. He had a couple strong years, but usually gets from 3-5 sacks a year. Still, 30 year old defensive linemen that were never dominant in the first place should be looking over their shoulder. Comparing anyone to Harrison is just inappropriate. Crazy he is still playing and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredtoast Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 9 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said: Cut all the overpaid veteran players that are subpar. Yes. Or let's keep doing it the Bengals way since it's worked out amazing since 1990. Smh Isn't the "Bengal way" to get rid of players like Andre Smith so that Ogbuehi can start? If you live to whine you should at least try to keep your story straight. It makes you look silly to contradict yourself. Last year the Bengals sucked because they were too cheap to rre-sign all their veterans, now they suck because they won't cut all their veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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