One Player the Bengals Won't Take: Vernon Gholston

[Legoland]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='624611' date='Jan 18 2008, 09:07 PM']Just a heads up for all you guys who make the Bengals draft boards, etc. One player that the Bengals won't take (at least at this stage in the game) is Vernon Gholston with the ninth pick.

The guy was a very good college football player, but will likely be a hack in the NFL, especially at the nine spot. A lot of teams will want him to move to LB (since he comes in at 264lbs), but if you have seen this guy on tape or watched him a lot, you will notice he gets beat in the big games and gets destroyed with juke moves by runningbacks.

If your all for a defensive player that can't tackle well in the open field and will get ripped up by L.T., Adrian Peterson and any quality running back any time we play .... by all means pimp the hell out of Gholston.

He's definitely not worth the pick at the nine spot.[/quote]
Look I HATE the Suckeyes(well at least their fans) probably more than anyone here. But I dont think you can count this out just like that. He's a pretty good ballplayer with decent instincts, and it seems to me like he's got a good amount of upside to his game still. I think its just way too early to even be having this discussion(before the combine, before pro day workouts, etc...) Maybe he'll be there at nine maybe he wont? I would say though that, if he and Ellis are there at nine we should get Ellis, and thats not a crack on VG, it has more to do with what I think our biggest needs are RIGHT NOW. I would also say that RIGHT NOW, I dont think it would that big of a reach if we did take him at nine.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Legoland' post='625149' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:00 PM']Look I HATE the Suckeyes(well at least their fans)[/quote]


ahhh, go play with your "legos".

no, seriously...i have tossed that gholston/ellis scenario aroung a million times myself already and it's a pretty close draw. i've wanted a good "3" for years on end and ellis looks to have everything you want there. but by the same token, if we unload smith, we're gonna have a big area of need at DE. i'm pretty confident that we could bring gholston up to speed by the 1st game, or at least alternate him with rucker/henderson. in time, i really see him as having the talent and skill set to be one of the better DEs in the game. so it's a tough choice! what puts my mind at ease is knowing there's absolutely no chance they'll both be there when we make our pick. hell, we'll be damned lucky if either of them are there.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengaled' post='625168' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:37 PM']ahhh, go play with your "legos".

no, seriously...i have tossed that gholston/ellis scenario aroung a million times myself already and it's a pretty close draw. i've wanted a good "3" for years on end and ellis looks to have everything you want there. but by the same token, if we unload smith, we're gonna have a big area of need at DE. i'm pretty confident that we could bring gholston up to speed by the 1st game, or at least alternate him with rucker/henderson. in time, i really see him as having the talent and skill set to be one of the better DEs in the game. so it's a tough choice! what puts my mind at ease is knowing there's absolutely no chance they'll both be there when we make our pick. hell, we'll be damned lucky if either of them are there.[/quote]


IMO, Gholston has more upside, but I'd pick Ellis (and I'm an OSU fan) unless he weighs in light at the combine, for the sheer fact that there will be a wealth of DE's sitting there in the second round. Not so much with DT.


Sedrick Ellis + Chris Ellis > Vernon Gholston + Dre Moore



Both combos is pretty good (and would make an immediate impact), but I think the former is a little better.

[-GoBengals-]

yyy-eee-aaa bengals arent taking gholston.

no one would had troy smith going in the 5th-6th round either...

we arnet taking gholston. just not gonna happen.


some of you are in the craziest state of denial i have ever seen. for crying out loud its pretty fuckin possible that a player you like in college on a team you like in the NCAA isnt as good as he looks to you as he has a damn decent supporting cast. good defenses are comprised of 11 players, not one super magic star. put strahan on the dolphins instead of so and so and they are still 1-15. and you cant say the rest of the OSU D was scrubbs. his good college career and veins popping from his mustles arent going to make him any better of an nfl player than bryan robinson.

and to say a guy is going to be a top 10 pick in the NFL is an awfully big complement. all anyone here is saying, is that he isnt going to be picked by us at #9, if he goes at #10, they are still correct. if he goes at #8, we shall see after he plays a little.

some of you are nuts about some stupid ncaa football...

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='625176' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:43 PM']yyy-eee-aaa bengals arent taking gholston.

no one would had troy smith going in the 5th-6th round either...

we arnet taking gholston. just not gonna happen.


some of you are in the craziest state of denial i have ever seen. for crying out loud its pretty fuckin possible that a player you like in college on a team you like in the NCAA isnt as good as he looks to you as he has a damn decent supporting cast. good defenses are comprised of 11 players, not one super magic star. put strahan on the dolphins instead of so and so and they are still 1-15. and you cant say the rest of the OSU D was scrubbs. his good college career and veins popping from his mustles arent going to make him any better of an nfl player than bryan robinson.

and to say a guy is going to be a top 10 pick in the NFL is an awfully big complement. all anyone here is saying, is that he isnt going to be picked by us at #9, if he goes at #10, they are still correct. if he goes at #8, we shall see after he plays a little.

some of you are nuts about some stupid ncaa football...[/quote]
thats a cop out if ive ever heard one...


why not just say that of the top 10 football players in this draft, we wont take at least 9 of them. yea, of course the odds are in your favor but what does making that statement actually mean?

nothing, thats what


the bottom line is that just because a few people on here dont like the buckeyes doesnt mean that we have already ruled out drafting a top 10 pick we havnt even scouted yet. hell, even guessing so is completely ludicrous.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='625185' date='Jan 20 2008, 11:16 PM']thats a cop out if ive ever heard one...


why not just say that of the top 10 football players in this draft, we wont take at least 9 of them. yea, of course the odds are in your favor but what does making that statement actually mean?

nothing, thats what


the bottom line is that just because a few people on here dont like the buckeyes doesnt mean that we have already ruled out drafting a top 10 pick we havnt even scouted yet. hell, even guessing so is completely ludicrous.[/quote]

none of that makes sense..

1. a cop out of what? we arent drafting the dude, if someone else thinks he is #10 material good for them, if omeone thinks he is #8 material, good for them, if he drops to the 3rd round, good for him.

2. what?

3. has nothing to do with the buckeyes, in fact, the strongest arguement in NOT drafting him is saying that the buckeyes had a great defense which made him look much better, kinda like a better LB crew makes geathers and j smith stats look better.

4. haven tscouted yet? what do you think the scouts were doing all year in 2007? playing fantasy football at home on yahoo? you dont think we had scouts at OSU practices and games? watching every game he played? there are people on this site who have access to player game film, and you think the benglas havent taken a gander yet? seriously? there is certainly something ludicrous here... and its not the idea we have passed on gholston, thats for sure.

the homer to hater ratio in irrational thought in this thread is at least 90/10. have you read this thread? 2 pages of lunacy... pure unadulterated lunacy.



"LOOK AT HIS ARMS HE IS THE AWESOME!!!111

[ickeyshuffler]

" i have a big screen tv and hours of buckeyes highlights on dvd in my moms basement. Let me grab my sweater vest and get down stairs. I'll give you a full report by 7:00am" -Jon P Buckeyefan-


p.s. "if you don't like the scartlet and grey, you are gay"

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='whodey24k' post='625219' date='Jan 21 2008, 01:13 AM']" i have a big screen tv and hours of buckeyes highlights on dvd in my moms basement. Let me grab my sweater vest and get down stairs. I'll give you a full report by 7:00am" -Jon P Buckeyefan-


p.s. "if you don't like the scartlet and grey, you are gay"[/quote]

[Jason]

Yeah, there is no way we won't take a player who by himself had more sacks than our entire defensive line did last year, and in fewer games at that (yeah, I know, he played in college, not the pros).

There is no way we will take a player who made the best O-lineman in all of college football look like a freshman playing his first game.

Nope, there is no way, because he will be gone before we pick.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='624611' date='Jan 18 2008, 09:07 PM']Just a heads up for all you guys who make the Bengals draft boards, etc. One player that the Bengals won't take (at least at this stage in the game) is Vernon Gholston with the ninth pick.

The guy was a very good college football player, but will likely be a hack in the NFL, especially at the nine spot. A lot of teams will want him to move to LB (since he comes in at 264lbs), but if you have seen this guy on tape or watched him a lot, you will notice he gets beat in the big games and gets destroyed with juke moves by runningbacks.

If your all for a defensive player that can't tackle well in the open field and will get ripped up by L.T., Adrian Peterson and any quality running back any time we play .... by all means pimp the hell out of Gholston.

He's definitely not worth the pick at the nine spot.[/quote]


I can expose this argument for the BS that it is pretty easily.

Dan, please list in order the top 10 DEs in this years draft?

Oh, wait, you would have had to actually watch a few NCAA games to know anything about that wouldn't you? I mean in order to bash Vernon you would actually have to have something to compare his performanmce with. What DE in the nation has never gotten "destroyed" by a juke? Please list ALL of the big games that Vernon got beaten in and the players that controlled him. I'm sure you are really high on those guys, right? Which one of them should we draft?

[akiliMVP]

Seriously the ONLY reason I want him is because he plays for the Buckeyes. The fact that he has an incredible combination of strength and athletic ability has NOTHING to do with it. Also all the hype he is getting from the top draft experts (Kiper, McShay, Mayock) is just because they are all Buckeye homers.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='625173' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:41 PM']IMO, Gholston has more upside, but I'd pick Ellis (and I'm an OSU fan) unless he weighs in light at the combine, for the sheer fact that there will be a wealth of DE's sitting there in the second round. Not so much with DT.


Sedrick Ellis + Chris Ellis > Vernon Gholston + Dre Moore



Both combos is pretty good (and would make an immediate impact), but I think the former is a little better.[/quote]


maybe you're right, but i don't have quite as high of regard for chris ellis as you do. then again, dre moore is a make or break type just as well. so who knows? when you get to mid-2nd round, the upper tier players have been sorted thru pretty thoroughly.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote]Last April the Dolphins used the first pick of the draft to select Jake Long. The New York Jets used their first round pick, the sixth pick overall, to select outside linebacker Vernon Gholston.

Advantage Dolphins!

While Long has come pretty much as advertised so far and will start at offensive left tackle for Miami in the regular-season opener, Gholston has not quite started so fast. In fact, he's been awful.

I had [b]Michael Lombardi, a 20-year NFL personnel man [/b]with Oakland, Cleveland and other teams, on my radio show over the weekend. First of all, he doesn't think the Jets are going to be very good at all. He picked them fourth in the AFC East, behind New England, Buffalo and Miami.

And he hates Gholston.

This is what Lombardi wrote in the National Football Post after the Jets preseason finale against Philadelphia.

"I watched Gholston last night and he is not playing well right now. What is most alarming is his inability to come off the blocks without explosison or to play the game with any physicality. Coming out of college, he did not, in my opinion, have one-step quickness. he has to run his feet to generate power -- much like a boxer who needs to "wind up" to throw a punch. [b]Gholston is a poor rusher, playing right into the lineman. As a dropper, he has no chance. If he is in coverage, he is a HUGE liability. The question the Jets should be asking themselves is, 'How are we going to dress him on Sunday?' He is not a special teams player and won't be on the field as a rusher with the defense. Difficult to imagine drafting aplayer with the sixth overall, he is not a quarterback, and he does not offer any help on Sunday."[/b]

Long, meanwhile, has met every expectation of the Dolphins coaching staff. He still needs to improve his technique but coaches are riding him hard to get that done. Head coach Tony Sparano, in particular, has been spending time with Long to get him better as quickly as possible.

He is not a Pro Bowl player now. But with some experience and some improved technique and some time, he has the makings. The Dolphins believe they hit paydirt with the guy.

The Jets with Gholston? Not so much.

[url="http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/"]http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/[/url][/quote]

juss sayin

[BengalsOwn]

[img]http://pixiestixkidspix.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/cookie-bite-web.jpg[/img]

[|BengalsFREAK|]

I'm sure that the Miami media isn't biased at all towards the person that they took in the draft.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='695630' date='Sep 5 2008, 03:03 AM'][/quote]



[quote name='BengalsFREAK' post='695632' date='Sep 5 2008, 03:19 AM']I'm sure that the Miami media isn't biased at all towards the person that they took in the draft.[/quote]

Of course they are ... that's why the opinion I highlighted is of a former NFL personnel man, who currently works nationally and not of the writer.

[Bengals1181]

am I missing something? Why did you waste the time to dig this up?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='695654' date='Sep 5 2008, 06:45 AM']am I missing something? Why did you waste the time to dig this up?[/quote]


because its always fun to give OSU homers a hard time?

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='695689' date='Sep 5 2008, 09:32 AM']because its always fun to give OSU homers a hard time? [/quote]

lol Who cares what he does in the pros...he made Jake Long his bitch!

[BlackBengal]

As an OSU fan I dont really care how players do in the NFL unless they play for the Bengals. All that I care about is that when Long played for Michigan and Gholston played for OSU, Gholston made Long his bitch. Also, Long's record against OSU was 0-4. Gholston's against Michigan 3-0.

Second, it is a little premature for this Miami homer to call Long a stud and Gholston a bust. Maybe we should let them play a game in the NFL first?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='695689' date='Sep 5 2008, 08:32 AM']because its always fun to give OSU homers a hard time? [/quote]


what do OSU fans have to do with it? Again, what has transpired to make this true or not true?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='695703' date='Sep 5 2008, 10:14 AM'][b]what do OSU fans have to do with it?[/b] Again, what has transpired to make this true or not true?[/quote]


really? maybe the weeks and pages of OSU fns saying we need gholston and he is mega awesome and will pwn in the pros?

then 2-3 of us saying he was trash then it being reinforced by nfl level personnel

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='695706' date='Sep 5 2008, 09:21 AM']really? maybe the weeks and pages of OSU fns saying we need gholston and he is mega awesome and will pwn in the pros?

then 2-3 of us saying he was trash then it being reinforced by nfl level personnel[/quote]

yep.

osu fans are douches. and then when things start to point the other way they pretend they dont know what we are talking about.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='695706' date='Sep 5 2008, 09:21 AM']really? maybe the weeks and pages of OSU fns saying we need gholston and he is mega awesome and will pwn in the pros?

then 2-3 of us saying he was trash then it being reinforced by nfl level personnel[/quote]


thanks for not answering the question. What has gholston done, or not done to prove anything aboout him yet?




I could really care less about how he does as a pro and think it was stupid to move him to LB. I'm just curious as to what has transpired to make this thread even be dug up.

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='695707' date='Sep 5 2008, 09:24 AM']yep.

osu fans are douches. and then when things start to point the other way they pretend they dont know what we are talking about.[/quote]


bring me a pizza bitch.

[Patmo]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='695706' date='Sep 5 2008, 09:21 AM']really? maybe the weeks and pages of OSU fns saying we need gholston and he is mega awesome and will pwn in the pros?

then 2-3 of us saying he was trash then it being reinforced by nfl level personnel[/quote]


There you go,Go. It's interesting to see who loved this guy on 1/18/08 . I'd be gloating because a few of us had this guy as a stiff. However, I liked Casey Bramlett and was hyping Jamall Broussard . Slightly embarrassing . Egg on the face etc .

A few years ago we had a draft guru (a real picker) who was hyping Brandon Jacobs,RB,Southern Illinois , drafted in the 4th rd by the Giants. There's a guy who knows how to pick 'em.