Andre Smith needs to get in camp - Paul Daugherty

[oldschooler]

[b][size="5"]Andre Smith needs to get in camp[/size][/b]
By Paul Daugherty • [email="pdaugherty@enquirer.com"][color="#000000"]pdaugherty@enquirer.com[/color][/email] • August 20, 2009


Andre Smith is entering Week 4 of a holdout that's growing larger than his abdomen. Every day he misses, it gets bigger. Bigger isn't better.

He and his agent Alvin Keels might think they hold some cards, but they're wrong about that. Anthony Collins could play Smith's position, right tackle, like an elephant on roller skates and it wouldn't matter to the Brown Family. Big negotiations are the Family Super Bowl. They'd just as soon win a big negotiation as hoist the Lombardi Trophy. And they're just very, very good at it.

• [b][url="http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=AB&Date=20090820&Category=SPT02&ArtNo=908200810&Ref=PH"][color="#000000"]Photos: Bengals 7, Patriots 6 [/color][/url][/b]

We won't bore you with the details of the talks, except to say you could drive the state of New Jersey through the gap between what The Family is offering and what Keels wants for Smith. Having witnessed more than two decades of these pointless and protracted fandangos, we can tell you this with absolute certainty:

Smith will sign in the next week or two, probably for pennies more than the club's final offer. He'll feel like he won something. Keels the agent will be able to tell next year's crop of prospective clients, "Look what I did for Andre.''

As for Andre, he will be seriously behind. He will start at right tackle sometime this season. But he won't have the year he could have had. He won't show up in football shape, he won't know the playbook, he won't have taken a hit of any consequence since the Sugar Bowl.

He won't be picked at like tight ends coach Jonathan Hayes picks at his rookie, Chase Coffman. Which is too bad, because Smith will need some serious picking at.

It could hurt him in the long run. It could end up costing him a lot of money. Let's say Smith is as good as his No. 6 overall pick suggests. At some point in the next five years, he makes the Pro Bowl a few times and is moved to left tackle. He makes more money in his second deal than he did in his first. All of that is possible, but a little hard to envision when the guy's doing agility drills solo at some high school in Alabama.

Why don't players seize control of their own careers? How hard is it for Andre Smith to say to Alvin Keels, "Don't let them play us, but get my double-wide rear in camp, and I mean today.''

Who works for whom? If I hire a landscaper, I yield to his expertise. But if I'd rather have a boxwood hedge than a clot of hydrangeas, I'm telling him that.

If I'm Andre Smith and a sophomore at Alabama, I already have a decent idea I could be a number one pick in two years. Maybe I take a few business classes, some accounting, some economics. I study up on holdouts and what they've cost rookies, long term. Maybe that prepares me to do something greater than nothing, as I sit back and let my agent decide when I start my career.

Is that crazy? Is it any crazier than this exchange between The Family's Katie Blackburn and Keels, aired on Hard Knocks?

Blackburn: "If you guys are still stuck on that Darrius Heyward-Bey deal, I'm just unfortunately not at a spot where I see something getting done.''

Keels: "Like I stated before, we want to be paid our slot, a little bit more than seventh.''

Blackburn: "It's just a lot of money. We feel that we have to keep the deal more in line with what's happened in the rest of the first round.''

Keels: "Heyward Bey's deal, I don't consider it to be so out of whack that we can't get a deal done.''

Blackburn: "We're not prepared to do that.''

And so on. Keels wants his guy at No. 6 to make more than Heyward-Bey, drafted No. 7 by Oakland. Blackburn says the Raiders decidedly overpaid Bey, a wideout whose best talent is running fast. If you look at the numbers, the Raiders deal isn't crazy, just mildly strange. Keels' suggestion is fair, but he sounds like he's begging. At the negotiating table, The Family will salt him and eat him for lunch.

The extra cash Andre Smith might end up making for his long holdout wouldn't buy a carriage house in Indian Hill. It could cost him much, much more.

Kids never learn.




[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090820/COL03/308200024/1062/SPT/Smith+needs+to+get+in+camp"]http://news.cincinna...+to+get+in+camp[/url]

[oldschooler]

[b][size="5"]Bengals' Collins profits from holdout of top pick[/size][/b]
By Chick Ludwig, Staff Writer 12:42 AM Friday, August 21, 2009


I'm no fortune-teller, but I sure had a hunch — way back in April — two things would happen.

The Cincinnati Bengals were going to select Andre Smith in the first round of the NFL draft (No. 6 overall), and they weren't going to be able to sign him in a timely fashion. True and true.

The Bengals sure could've used the refrigerator-sized right offensive tackle to get some valuable repetitions against the Patriots' rugged and experienced defense in preseason game No. 2 at New England on Thursday night, Aug. 20.

But Smith and the Bengals are miles apart in negotiations, which could drag into September.

Bridging the gap, which is anywhere from $5 million to $10 million, will take creativity such as a roster bonus in 2010 or later. Panic hasn't set in on the team's part yet because second-year veteran Anthony Collins has a firm grasp on the position.

Moving left tackle Andrew Whitworth from left guard, and switching Collins from left tackle to right tackle were smart moves because the club knew Smith's holdout would be painful.

Collins is an athletic, agile tackle more so than a heavy, road-grading mauler. He spent the offseason working on his strength and conditioning, and all indications are he'll be in the starting lineup against visiting Denver on Sept. 13.

Collins is taking advantage of his opportunity, while Smith wastes away in contract limbo.



[url="http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-bengals/bengals-collins-profits-from-holdout-of-top-pick-259074.html?cxtype=feedbot"]http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-bengals/bengals-collins-profits-from-holdout-of-top-pick-259074.html?cxtype=feedbot[/url]

[Hooky]

"Big negotiations are the Family Super Bowl. They'd just as soon win a big negotiation as hoist the Lombardi Trophy. And they're just very, very good at it."

Why does he have to open a surprisingly good article with a line that makes you want to punch him in the throat? In the article, he puts most of the onus on Andre, but still wants to make his Bengal hating clear.

[oldschooler]

And then there were 2?




[b][size="5"]T.O. spills the Maybin beans?[/size][/b]
Posted by Mike Florio on August 21, 2009 12:10 AM ET


Well, if the Buffalo Bills were hoping to keep the deal with defensive end Aaron Maybin under wraps until after Saturday night's preseason game, Terrell Owens didn't get the memo.

Tweeted Owens moments ago: "[url="http://twitter.com/terrellowens/status/3442921952"]Congrats 2 our #1 draft pick Aaron Maybin!![/url] He will b officially joining the Buffalo Bills 2morr!!"

Oops.

So it looks like the deal is done.

It remains to be seen whether the Bills will still try to keep it quiet through Saturday night, so that they won't have to cut a player to make room for Maybin.

[i]UPDATE[/i]: T.O. later tried to [url="http://twitter.com/terrellowens/status/3443518560"]cram the cat back into the bag[/url]: "Yayyyyyy! Aaron Maybin signed!!! I think! (Puzzled look on my face & scratching my head!)"




[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/21/to-spills-the-maybin-beans/"]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/21/to-spills-the-maybin-beans/[/url]

[oldschooler]

[url="http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter"][b][color="#0084b4"]Adam_Schefter[/color][/b][/url] Picks 5 and 7 done, boxing in Andre Smith at 6. Picks 9 and 11 done, boxing in Michael Crabtree at 10. Yet no signs of deal with either one.
[url="http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/3449586218"]5 minutes ago[/url] from [url="http://ubertwitter.com/"]UberTwitter[/url]

[Jamie_B]

pathetic

[bengaled]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='21 August 2009 - 10:39 AM' timestamp='1250861959' post='793794']
pathetic
[/quote]


that word doesn't do this situation justice. same bullshit, different year. fucking groundhog day, and i can't get out of it.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Hooky' date='21 August 2009 - 10:10 AM' timestamp='1250860239' post='793775']
"Big negotiations are the Family Super Bowl. They'd just as soon win a big negotiation as hoist the Lombardi Trophy. And they're just very, very good at it."

Why does he have to open a surprisingly good article with a line that makes you want to punch him in the throat? In the article, he puts most of the onus on Andre, but still wants to make his Bengal hating clear.
[/quote]

Prove the statement untrue...

[Rick]

If I'm Andre Smith, this is what I would do right now, today, Friday, August 21, 2009.

Call Alvin Keels and tell him I'm buying a plane ticket to Cincinnati TODAY! I want my deal to get done NOW!
I will then call the Bengals and tell them I'm coming to town. I want my deal done NOW! I want to be a Bengal. I want to learn. I want to be a part of this team. I want to help them win the AFCN.

I get my ticket. I fly to Cincinnati. I meet with Katie and Alvin Keels. I tell them to get it done NOW! I meet with the press and tell them that, too. I stay in the media spotlight UNTIL it gets done.

(This is getting me UPSET! I'm UPSET! Just Do IT!)

[sois]

[quote name='Rick' date='21 August 2009 - 10:41 AM' timestamp='1250865701' post='793834']
If I'm Andre Smith, this is what I would do right now, today, Friday, August 21, 2009.

Call Alvin Keels and tell him I'm buying a plane ticket to Cincinnati TODAY! I want my deal to get done NOW!
I will then call the Bengals and tell them I'm coming to town. I want my deal done NOW! I want to be a Bengal. I want to learn. I want to be a part of this team. I want to help them win the AFCN.

I get my ticket. I fly to Cincinnati. I meet with Katie and Alvin Keels. I tell them to get it done NOW! I meet with the press and tell them that, too. I stay in the media spotlight UNTIL it gets done.

(This is getting me UPSET! I'm UPSET! Just Do IT!)
[/quote]

It would be nice if you were Andre Smith

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='21 August 2009 - 10:39 AM' timestamp='1250861959' post='793794']
pathetic
[/quote]


yea, Paul Daugherty is pretty pathetic these days.



If I'm Katie, here's what I do:


Make Keels a deal. If DHB scores a TD in their next game, they'll take Keels offer. If he doesn't, the Bengals offer wins. Afterall, DHB is the #7 pick, he must be pretty darn good. :half ninja:

[Hooky]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='21 August 2009 - 11:37 AM' timestamp='1250865436' post='793833']
Prove the statement untrue...
[/quote]

It's his opinion that the Browns care more about money than winning a Super Bowl. Being an opinion, I can't be proven as true or false. That he stated his opinion as fact, like it is obvious that the Browns only care about money, is why I wanted to punch him in the throat. I think he's way off and just piling on more hate.

[Since 87]

[quote name='oldschooler' date='21 August 2009 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1250861378' post='793785']
And then there were 2?




[b][size="5"]T.O. spills the Maybin beans?[/size][/b]
Posted by Mike Florio on August 21, 2009 12:10 AM ET


Well, if the Buffalo Bills were hoping to keep the deal with defensive end Aaron Maybin under wraps until after Saturday night's preseason game, Terrell Owens didn't get the memo.

Tweeted Owens moments ago: "[url="http://twitter.com/terrellowens/status/3442921952"]Congrats 2 our #1 draft pick Aaron Maybin!![/url] He will b officially joining the Buffalo Bills 2morr!!"

Oops.

So it looks like the deal is done.

It remains to be seen whether the Bills will still try to keep it quiet through Saturday night, so that they won't have to cut a player to make room for Maybin.

[i]UPDATE[/i]: T.O. later tried to [url="http://twitter.com/terrellowens/status/3443518560"]cram the cat back into the bag[/url]: "Yayyyyyy! Aaron Maybin signed!!! I think! (Puzzled look on my face & scratching my head!)"




[url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/21/to-spills-the-maybin-beans/"]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/21/to-spills-the-maybin-beans/[/url]
[/quote]


Wait wait wait wait wait... It was my understanding that news would never be broken from a player on twitter. I was scolded in the Caldwell injury thread. How could this happen?!? Or maybe the rules were just injury specific news.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Since 87' date='21 August 2009 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1250866768' post='793850']
Wait wait wait wait wait... It was my understanding that news would never be broken from a player on twitter. I was scolded in the Caldwell injury thread. How could this happen?!? Or maybe the rules were just injury specific news.
[/quote]


while I don't disagree with you, I believe the discussion in that thread was about injuries, and this didn't even come from the player in question.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='21 August 2009 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1250866288' post='793844']
yea, Paul Daugherty is pretty pathetic these days.


[/quote]


It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's super homer!!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='21 August 2009 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1250867345' post='793856']
It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's super homer!!
[/quote]


my bad super sensitive man.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Bengals1181' date='21 August 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1250868229' post='793866']
my bad super sensitive man.
[/quote]


lame

[whodey1971]

Since people are taking the "If I were Andre" route...I'll take the "If I were Katie" route...

I would offer a contract NOW...as absolutely big/large as I am willing to go.

I would tell them that there is not, nor will there ever be, additional $ that will be offered.

I would tell them that we believe learning the system is crucial, and that he is more valuable to us today, than he is tomorrow.

Therefore - the offer is only good until midnight.

Tomorrow, I will make a new offer...and you can count on it being lower than today's.

The longer you hold out...the less money you will make...and if you would like to test us on this...good luck being drafted as high as #6 again next year when you go back into the draft.

[sparky151]

Andre Smith could picket outside PBS. That would draw a crowd and the media and he could tell them he'd like to sign today but the 6th pick should get the 6th best deal and he'll sign for $1 a year more than the guy behind him got. It won't make him any more valuable in the Brown family's eyes but it might increase external pressure (business partners of the team) to get a deal done. The next day he gets the NAACP to join him with them complaining about the taxpayers forking over hundreds of millions to an out of touch old, rich, white guy while a young black man wants to go to work. The day after that get someone to ask various local politicians about the situation. They'll be torn behind their desire to stay out of someone else's fight and the fact that Smith is pretty obviously being screwed over. All of this may not help get a deal done but will fill the time while waiting for the Bengals to make a realistic offer.

[-GoBengals-]

camp broke 2 days ago... gonna be tough...

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Rick' date='21 August 2009 - 11:41 AM' timestamp='1250865701' post='793834']
If I'm Andre Smith, this is what I would do right now, today, Friday, August 21, 2009.

Call Alvin Keels and tell him I'm buying a plane ticket to Cincinnati TODAY! I want my deal to get done NOW!
I will then call the Bengals and tell them I'm coming to town. I want my deal done NOW! I want to be a Bengal. I want to learn. I want to be a part of this team. I want to help them win the AFCN.

I get my ticket. I fly to Cincinnati. I meet with Katie and Alvin Keels. I tell them to get it done NOW! I meet with the press and tell them that, too. I stay in the media spotlight UNTIL it gets done.

(This is getting me UPSET! I'm UPSET! Just Do IT!)
[/quote]


then Katie will see how desperate you are and offer you league minimum

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Jamie_B' date='21 August 2009 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1250867345' post='793856']
It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's super homer!!
[/quote]



[img]http://www.gotomycodes.com/userpics/myspacegraphics/Simpsons-Movie/Super-Homer-in-Under-Clothing.jpg[/img]

[JC]

I don't blame Andre for trying to get all the loot he can. We crucified David on this board every day and it turned out to be the best decision that could have been made. If you guys were in Keels or Smiths position you would want to be paid the fair amount too. I guarantee it. Just slot the guy. It's the only thing we really do to get him in here and improve our playoff chances.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='21 August 2009 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1250865436' post='793833']
Prove the statement untrue...
[/quote]


the bengals always pay fairly..... always...

done.

not getting fucked financially is a huge part of the nfl, there is still currently a salary cap (and likely to continue) thus not screwing yourself for 5-7 years is pretty fucking important.

empty minded jackassery, isnt stronger in numbers.

just because 5 other idiots agree with you, doesnt make it true.

please justify why the bengals should be forced to pay so much more, when several picks from several teams each year, get less than the guy behind them,

the only stance for paying andre 40 mil, is that that more than #7.

who fucking cares? doesnt mean its accurate value... if DHB got 75 million should andre suddenyl be worth 76?

doesnt make sense...

3 Kansas City [color="Red"][b]Tyson Jackson - DE[/b] 5 year $57 million contract, $31 million guaranteed[/color]
4 Seattle [color="Red"][b]Aaron Curry - LB[/b] 6 year $60 million contract, $34 million guaranteed

[color="#000000"][b]explain this.. #3 got less than #4 in both total and guaranteed money!!!!!111111

OH MY FUCKING GOODNESS..... the CHEIFS ARE IDIOTS

CHEAP MOTHERFUCKING CHEIFS OWNER!!!111

OMG WHAT FUCKING IDIOTS DOES THAT!!11111

[/b][/color][/color]21 Cleveland [color="Red"][b]Alex Mack - C[/b] 5 year $13.975 million contract, $8.975 million guaranteed[/color]
22 Minnesota [color="Red"][b]Percy Harvin - WR[/b] 5 year $14.25 million contract, $8.4M guaranteed

[size="6"][b]AGAIN!!!!!! ALL IDIOTZZ11!!!!1

[/b][/size][/color]24 Atlanta [color="Red"][b]Peria Jerry - DT[/b] 5 year $13.25 million contract, $7.55 million guaranteed[/color]
25 Miami [color="Red"][b]Vontae Davis - CB[/b] 5 year $13.3 million $7.35M guaranteed

AGAIN!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

abd last year...

[/color]2 St. Louis [color="Red"][b]Chris Long - DE[/b] 6 year $56.5 million with $29 million guaranteed[/color]
3 Atlanta [color="Red"][b]Matt Ryan - QB [/b] 6 year $72 million $27.3 million guaranteed

[/color]10 New England [color="Red"][b]Jerod Mayo - OLB[/b] 5 year deal $18.9 million with $13.8 million guaranteed[/color]
11 Buffalo [color="Red"][b]Leodis McKelvin - CB[/b] 5 year deal $19.4 million with $12.6 million guaranteed

[/color]12 Denver [color="Red"][b]Ryan Clady - OT[/b] 5 year deal $17.5 million with $11.5 million guaranteed[/color]
13 Carolina [color="Red"][b]Jonathan Stewart - RB[/b] 5 year deal $20 million with $10.795 million guaranteed

[/color]28 Seattle [color="Red"][b]Lawrence Jackson - DE[/b] 5 year deal $11.25 million with $6.1 million guaranteed[/color]
29 San Francisco [color="Red"][b]Kentwan Balmer - DT[/b] 5 year deal $11.5 million with $6 million guaranteed[/color]
30 NY Jets [color="Red"][b]Dustin Keller - TE[/b] 5 year deal $12 million with $6 million guaranteed

[size="7"][b]
[color="#ff8c00"]HOLY SHIT!!!!11 IT HAPPENS ALL THE FUCKING TIME DUMBASSES!!!11

[size="2"]what a dink fest.... i even remember some jacktard saying "well so and so signed first for less"

so apparently signing after someone ALSO makes your value magically higher?

contracts shouldnt be based on anything but slotting and who signs first? stafford must be a real loser getting signed first overall then.

there isnt a shred of credible fact that states why andre should be paid more than DHB


[/size][/color][/b][/size][/color]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='21 August 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1250876243' post='793933']
the bengals always pay fairly..... always...

done.

not getting fucked financially is a huge part of the nfl, there is still currently a salary cap (and likely to continue) thus not screwing yourself for 5-7 years is pretty fucking important.

empty minded jackassery, isnt stronger in numbers.

just because 5 other idiots agree with you, doesnt make it true.

please justify why the bengals should be forced to pay so much more, when several picks from several teams each year, get less than the guy behind them,

the only stance for paying andre 40 mil, is that that more than #7.

who fucking cares? doesnt mean its accurate value... if DHB got 75 million should andre suddenyl be worth 76?

doesnt make sense...

3 Kansas City [color="red"][b]Tyson Jackson - DE[/b] 5 year $57 million contract, $31 million guaranteed[/color]
4 Seattle [color="red"][b]Aaron Curry - LB[/b] 6 year $60 million contract, $34 million guaranteed

[color="#000000"][b]explain this.. #3 got less than #4 in both total and guaranteed money!!!!!111111

OH MY FUCKING GOODNESS..... the CHEIFS ARE IDIOTS

CHEAP MOTHERFUCKING CHEIFS OWNER!!!111

OMG WHAT FUCKING IDIOTS DOES THAT!!11111

[/b][/color][/color]21 Cleveland [color="red"][b]Alex Mack - C[/b] 5 year $13.975 million contract, $8.975 million guaranteed[/color]
22 Minnesota [color="red"][b]Percy Harvin - WR[/b] 5 year $14.25 million contract, $8.4M guaranteed

[size="6"][b]AGAIN!!!!!! ALL IDIOTZZ11!!!!1

[/b][/size][/color]24 Atlanta [color="red"][b]Peria Jerry - DT[/b] 5 year $13.25 million contract, $7.55 million guaranteed[/color]
25 Miami [color="red"][b]Vontae Davis - CB[/b] 5 year $13.3 million $7.35M guaranteed

AGAIN!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

abd last year...

[/color]2 St. Louis [color="red"][b]Chris Long - DE[/b] 6 year $56.5 million with $29 million guaranteed[/color]
3 Atlanta [color="red"][b]Matt Ryan - QB [/b]6 year $72 million $27.3 million guaranteed

[/color]10 New England [color="red"][b]Jerod Mayo - OLB[/b] 5 year deal $18.9 million with $13.8 million guaranteed[/color]
11 Buffalo [color="red"][b]Leodis McKelvin - CB[/b] 5 year deal $19.4 million with $12.6 million guaranteed

[/color]12 Denver [color="red"][b]Ryan Clady - OT[/b] 5 year deal $17.5 million with $11.5 million guaranteed[/color]
13 Carolina [color="red"][b]Jonathan Stewart - RB[/b] 5 year deal $20 million with $10.795 million guaranteed

[/color]28 Seattle [color="red"][b]Lawrence Jackson - DE[/b] 5 year deal $11.25 million with $6.1 million guaranteed[/color]
29 San Francisco [color="red"][b]Kentwan Balmer - DT[/b] 5 year deal $11.5 million with $6 million guaranteed[/color]
30 NY Jets [color="red"][b]Dustin Keller - TE[/b] 5 year deal $12 million with $6 million guaranteed

[size="7"][b]
[color="#ff8c00"]HOLY SHIT!!!!11 IT HAPPENS ALL THE FUCKING TIME DUMBASSES!!!11

[size="2"]what a dink fest.... i even remember some jacktard saying "well so and so signed first for less"

so apparently signing after someone ALSO makes your value magically higher?

contracts shouldnt be based on anything but slotting and who signs first? stafford must be a real loser getting signed first overall then.

there isnt a shred of credible fact that states why andre should be paid more than DHB


[/size][/color][/b][/size][/color]
[/quote]









Hallelujah and pass the Tylenol!