Dalton is GARBAGE!

[alleycat]

I actually saw the game live at the stadium, and I was actually quite impressed with Dalton. He's got good pocket awareness and mobility (something Carson never had), and he was throwing the ball with a whole lot of zip. What I noticed mainly was a timing issue, and I'm not sure if it was the receivers, him, or a combination. But there were a number of passes where the ball got on the receiver a little faster than they may have been ready for. On the scoring drive, especially, you could see him get into a rhythm. But overall, he had about 3 or 4 downfield passes that made me say "wow."

I actually got to the game a little late and didn't see the interception, but when they showed it on the screen at the stadium at half-time, and I saw that Green actually dropped it, I was even more enouraged. Of course, that other INT was a head scratcher...

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='alleycat' timestamp='1314019963' post='1019114']
he was throwing the ball with a whole lot of zip.
[/quote]

Nope

[quote]But there were a number of passes where the ball got on the receiver a little faster than they may have been ready for.
[/quote]

His fast ball must've been reaching 35mph, opposed to the normal 30mph?

[JC]

Okay..Drew Brees probably has the best accuracy in the NFL. How is Andy's not any better?

[sois]

LOL at people jumping to Brees/Manning comparisons after these two games. WTF?

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314019325' post='1019104']

LMAO. Brees had a 76.9 rating as a rookie and won 3 of 4 overtime games that year. Threw for 3284 yards to such epic receivers and TEs as Tim Dwight, Curtis Conway, Reche Caldwell, Stephen Alexander, Eric Parker, and Josh Norman. Alexander is the only one of that group that EVER made it to the pro bowl with one.

He did have LaDainian Tomlinson.

I think Dalton made good decisions last night just didn't throw an accurate ball plain and simple. That has to change for him to succeed. That is the exact reason Holmgran got rid of Kitna. Smart player, solid leader, made decent decisions but just wasn't accurate with his passes and fumbled too much. There have been plenty of poised, smart QBs in this league who couldn't make the throws.

I have said I won't pass any judgement until at least game 4 of the regular season. Easy early schedule so Dalton should have time to grow early on. He is still a 3 week rookie.
[/quote]

Not for nothing, but Dalton's most experienced WR is Reche's younger, less accomplished brother. #justsaying

[fluhartz]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1314020603' post='1019122']
LOL at people jumping to Brees/Manning comparisons after these two games. WTF?
[/quote]


I know its as bad as the people saying he is garbage after these two games......

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1314020603' post='1019122']
LOL at people jumping to Brees/Manning comparisons after these two games. WTF?
[/quote]



It is to offset all of the "he's garbage", "I'd rather have Casey Bramlet" asinine talk here.
That's WTF.

[sois]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1314020812' post='1019128']



It is to offset all of the "he's garbage", "I'd rather have Casey Bramlet" asinine talk here.
That's WTF.
[/quote]

So you make irrational predictions based off other irrational predictions? Interesting.

Look, the odds have always been against him being a stud. That's how I see it. Mathematically, he is going to lean more towards garbage than Peyton Manning.

However, I am hopeful and am on the Dalton bandwagon now thanks to that daltonshow dude. We are friends on the itnernet. Even though I am hopeful, I'm not going to bust out Manning/Brees comparisons.

I've upgraded him from Frye ceiling to Henne ceiling.

[oldschooler]

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – It wasn’t the debacle of Detroit, but there are still some immense growing pains for the Bengals offense.

The good news? The first unit scored a touchdown. The bad news? The first five drives showed that the learning curve for Andy Dalton and company is a lot steeper than imagined.

After getting within 10-7 early in the second quarter, the Jets scored 17 unanswered points en route to a 27-7 win on Sunday night at New Meadowlands Stadium.

The Bengals are 0-2 in the preseason for the first time since 2007 and have been outscored 61-10. Of those 61 opponent points, 27 have come courtesy of six Bengals turnovers.

Playing against Rex Ryan’s pressure packages and wet conditions, Dalton’s 10th drive of the preseason finally netted a touchdown when Brian Leonard scored on a 1-yard run two minutes into the second quarter to bring the Bengals within 10-7.

That capped an 11-play, 70-yard drive where Dalton completed passes to five different players.

Said Dalton of leading drive: “All I want to say about it is that it’s about time. We’ve got to keep getting better, and we all know it.”

What Dalton realizes is that the first five drives were more like an exhibition in football follies. In the first five drives, which comprised 13 plays, the offense had nine negative net yards which included two interceptions, three penalties and a fumble which rolled out of bounds but nevertheless led to a 17-yard loss.

Dalton was getting the ball out quicker but many of his passes over those drives were high. The first interception was off A.J. Green’s fingertips and was picked off by Eric Smith but the second one was high over the head of Andre Caldwell and intercepted by Jim Leonhard.

Both of those interceptions also led to the first 10 Jets points – a 16-yard Mark Sanchez to Santonio Holmes strike and 30-yard field goal by Nick Novak.

With a little over three minutes remaining in the first quarter, Dalton and the offense finally settled down. Five plays into the drive, on 3rd-and-10 from the Bengals 40, Bo Scaife went high and nabbed a Dalton pass for a 12-yard gain into Jets territory. The other good thing about that play is that it was the first time that Dalton showed he could find time by rolling out of the pocket and extending the play.

Two plays later with the Jets blitzing, Dalton completed a little dumpoff screen to Brian Leonard, who went 33 yards for what is the Bengals longest play of the preseason. On 3rd-and-7 from the Jets 11, Dalton made another good read on a blitz, completing a 10-yard pass down the middle to Jordan Shipley which paved the way for Leonard’s TD run on the next play.

On the drive, Dalton was 6 of 8 for 68 yards. He finished 8 of 19 for 86 yards.

In the two preseason games, Dalton is 19 of 34 for 155 yards with three interceptions and a passer rating of 61.1. In 12 drives, he has led two scoring drives (one field goal, one touchdown).


(Click the link for the entire article)


[url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/08/21/another-rollercoaster-night-for-offense-in-27-7-loss-to-jets/"]http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/08/21/another-rollercoaster-night-for-offense-in-27-7-loss-to-jets/[/url]

[oldschooler]

[b]Dalton so far:[/b] In 12 drives, Dalton is 19 of 34 for 155 yards with 0 TDs and 3 INTs and a QB rating of 61.1. In 12 drives, he’s led 2 scoring drives (1 field goal, 1 TD). In Carson Palmer’s first 12 drives of preseason last year he was 29 of 43 for 292 yards with 0 TDs and 2 INTs and a QB rating of 79.9 with 2 scoring drives (both TDs). In Palmer’s first 12 preseason series as a rookie in 2003 he was 22 of 34 for 259 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs (2 Pick 6′s) with a 115.8 rating. He led four scoring drives (all TDs). Ironically in Palmer’s rookie season, the first two preseason games were also against the Jets and Lions (Bengals were 1-1 in those games).



[url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/08/22/fifth-quarter-jets-27-bengals-7/"]http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/08/22/fifth-quarter-jets-27-bengals-7/[/url]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1314021013' post='1019129']

So you make irrational predictions based off other irrational predictions? Interesting.

Look, the odds have always been against him being a stud. That's how I see it. Mathematically, he is going to lean more towards garbage than Peyton Manning.

However, I am hopeful and am on the Dalton bandwagon now thanks to that daltonshow dude. We are friends on the itnernet. Even though I am hopeful, I'm not going to bust out Manning/Brees comparisons.

I've upgraded him from Frye ceiling to Henne ceiling.
[/quote]



Please show me where I have made any prediction at all regarding the player Dalton will be.
The only time I have busted out names is when someone talked about Dalton's draft
position being an indicator that he will suck. I just pointed out that there have been plenty
of QBs that didn't suck that were drafted in the 2nd round and later. Hell, the last 2nd
round QB this team took, took them to the Super Bowl. The other QB that took them to
the Super Bowl was a 3rd round pick. The #1 overall pick they had at QB never won
a single playoff game for them.

Like someone said earlier in this thread, "Dalton has done enough to give the haters fuel and
the supporters optimism." Period.

The one thing we really agree on is that people saying garbage here about Dalton are being irrational.

[mongo]

It's never a bad moment to again point out that the West Coast Offense was designed for the Bengals' Virgil Carter: a 6' tall, weak-armed, but mobile quarterback who played behind a suspect offensive line...

[IndyBengal]

Give the guy a chance....has he looked bad at times, certainly......is there a moment or two when he made me say "wow".....yes.

Ease up...too many haters and mean people on this board....

[|SF2|]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1314020685' post='1019125']

Not for nothing, but Dalton's most experienced WR is Reche's younger, less accomplished brother. #justsaying
[/quote]
I don't disagree with your post but the players Brees had the year he became the starter were NEVER HAS beens and never will bes. The following year (2003) they added David Boston and Antonio Gates to try and fix that problem. Boston was a bust. Gates is a stud. San Diego had a bad season and went 4-12. Brees took a lot of the blame although the offense was ranked 14th and the defense 27th. Marty, in typical panic mode, drafted Philip Rivers. Such is the life of an NFL QB.

Marty never liked Brees as Marty is more of a drop back tall statue type QB ala Bernie Kosar, Steve Deberg and then Philip Rivers. Marty is very similar to Marvin in many respects.

Shipley, Green, Simpson, Gresh, Caldwell and don't forget Bo Scaife have WAY more potential than what San Diego had. San Diego hasn't had a big time consistent receiver since what Wes Chandler? Their lack of a real threat at WR the last 10 years will put Antonio Gates into the HOF if he keeps up the pace.

Dalton has the weapons, just needs to make the franchise QB type throws. BTW, I know we were playing the Jets yesterday but they ran a VERY vanilla defense at best. There starters are just getting some game speed reps in against competition like most good teams do.

We will just have to be patient and hope he gets it done. I don't see another option at this point unless Carson pulls a mea culpa and begs for forgiveness. Not likely.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Paynor' timestamp='1314018665' post='1019099']
The colts were willing to put men around Payton, when Ind drafted him they KNEW going in what they were getting , a intelligent pure drop back passer that if given the tools could general his team and pick a D apart. he is not and has never been a scrambling qb. Thats what Cincy got when they drafted Palmer. A intelligent pure drop back passer. the only diff is Ind built a team around thier qb and his style and Palmer has been running since he come to Cincinnati. Cincinnati takes promising qb's and breaks thier will, beats them down until the finally get fed up. Dalton will be no diff without more change.
[/quote]


I'm confused. You praise the colts for putting weapons around Manning early on, and then bash the Bengals for giving Dalton one of the top WR's to come out of colllege in the last decade.


You can't argue it both ways.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314019325' post='1019104']

LMAO. Brees had a 76.9 rating as a rookie and won 3 of 4 overtime games that year. Threw for 3284 yards to such epic receivers and TEs as Tim Dwight, Curtis Conway, Reche Caldwell, Stephen Alexander, Eric Parker, and Josh Norman. Alexander is the only one of that group that EVER made it to the pro bowl with one.

He did have LaDainian Tomlinson.

[b]I think Dalton made good decisions last night just didn't throw an accurate ball plain and simple. [/b] That has to change for him to succeed. That is the exact reason Holmgran got rid of Kitna. Smart player, solid leader, made decent decisions but just wasn't accurate with his passes and fumbled too much. There have been plenty of poised, smart QBs in this league who couldn't make the throws.

I have said I won't pass any judgement until at least game 4 of the regular season. Easy early schedule so Dalton should have time to grow early on. He is still a 3 week rookie.
[/quote]


and its reasonable to think that a heavy rain played at least a small part of it. There were at least 5 drops, including 3 from our stud WR.

Are we arguing about Dalton if he had ended up 13-19 with 1 INT instead of 2?

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1314025702' post='1019165']


I'm confused. You praise the colts for putting weapons around Manning early on, and then bash the Bengals for giving Dalton one of the top WR's to come out of colllege in the last decade.


You can't argue it both ways.
[/quote]
Dalton has plenty of weapons. Has to make the plays.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314025968' post='1019169']
Dalton has plenty of weapons. Has to make the plays.
[/quote]


I agree. Those weapons didn't help him out lastnight though, yes?

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1314025892' post='1019167']


and its reasonable to think that a heavy rain played at least a small part of it. There were at least 5 drops, including 3 from our stud WR.

Are we arguing about Dalton if he had ended up 13-19 with 1 INT instead of 2?
[/quote]
Yes. The rain also has the effect of not allowing Corners and Safeties to make quick cuts to attack marginal passes. The last thing we want is our #1 draft pick reaching up for high passes on a nice sunny day on field turf. Its only a matter of time before he gets his clock cleaned in this division if that keeps up.

Like I said, need to wait about 6 weeks before we can start passing judgement. The first two pre season games makes me think Dalton has a good understanding of what is going on and makes good decisions. That was always a positive on his scouting report. Now lets see if he can make the throws.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314026282' post='1019173']
Yes. The rain also has the effect of not allowing Corners and Safeties to make quick cuts to attack marginal passes. The last thing we want is our #1 draft pick reaching up for high passes on a nice sunny day on field turf. Its only a matter of time before he gets his clock cleaned in this division if that keeps up.

[b]Like I said, need to wait about 6 weeks before we can start passing judgement. [/b]The first two pre season games makes me think Dalton has a good understanding of what is going on and makes good decisions. That was always a positive on his scouting report. Now lets see if he can make the throws.
[/quote]


I think that's fair. I'd even say 8 games.


The biggest thing I'd say is that I don't see a lost, scared rookie out there. I see an offense as a whole, that's learning a new offense and definitely not gelling yet.

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314025968' post='1019169']
Dalton has plenty of weapons. Has to make the plays.
[/quote]

Plenty of weapons, who have little to no experience in the NFL. They're going to need to take their lumps.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1314026431' post='1019175']

Plenty of weapons, who have little to no experience in the NFL. They're going to need to take their lumps.
[/quote]
No doubt. Never thought it would be pretty.

[Marvin]

1181: I agree. I will reserve judgment until well into the season, but I like his awareness. He made quick reads from the pocket, the throws weren't the best but with more reps, I am confident that will improve.

Count me in the optimistic camp regarding Dalton. The team is obviously going to struggle this year but, if Ced and the defense can take pressure off Dalton and the young receivers, the easy schedule may give up some wins.

[texbengal]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' timestamp='1314016178' post='1019080']

Similarly, Dalton played at TCU.
[/quote]

Surely, you're joking... comparing UTEP to TCU? TCU's program is one of the better ones in the country. UTEP's is one of the worst. TCU didn't play a stellar schedule - that's the conference they play in. But they beat the Big Ten champion, and Dalton was great. Had they played, I wouldn't have been surprised if Wisconsin beat UTEP by 100 points. TCU's got a bunch of guys who are playing in the NFL, including a few #1 picks the past few years. That's a silly comparison.

[texbengal]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1314024829' post='1019160']
I don't disagree with your post but the players Brees had the year he became the starter were NEVER HAS beens and never will bes. The following year (2003) they added David Boston and Antonio Gates to try and fix that problem. Boston was a bust. Gates is a stud. San Diego had a bad season and went 4-12. Brees took a lot of the blame although the offense was ranked 14th and the defense 27th. Marty, in typical panic mode, drafted Philip Rivers. Such is the life of an NFL QB.

Marty never liked Brees as Marty is more of a drop back tall statue type QB ala Bernie Kosar, Steve Deberg and then Philip Rivers. Marty is very similar to Marvin in many respects.

Shipley, Green, Simpson, Gresh, Caldwell and don't forget Bo Scaife have WAY more potential than what San Diego had. San Diego hasn't had a big time consistent receiver since what Wes Chandler? Their lack of a real threat at WR the last 10 years will put Antonio Gates into the HOF if he keeps up the pace.

Dalton has the weapons, just needs to make the franchise QB type throws. BTW, I know we were playing the Jets yesterday but they ran a VERY vanilla defense at best. There starters are just getting some game speed reps in against competition like most good teams do.

We will just have to be patient and hope he gets it done. I don't see another option at this point unless Carson pulls a mea culpa and begs for forgiveness. Not likely.
[/quote]

It's going to take time for Dalton... like it would for any rookie QB. Peyton was less than stellar as a rookie QB... so was Aikman. Had he started as a rookie, I'm guessing Palmer would have been, too. It's rare, but not unprecedented for a rookie QB to do well. But even then, he's typically helped out by a good running game and a stout defense, like Flacco and Worthlessburger had. On top of that, they have a new OC - who's never coached in the NFL... and for the most part, their skill guys are all rookies and 2nd-year guys - with the exception of Benson.

If I see improvement week to week, that's what I'm looking for. And from Dalton, I've seen it from week 1 to week 2 this pre-season. It's not great, but it's better. He's a smart kid who moves well, has good pocket presence, and is a leader. My hope is that early on, the running game and the D keep them in enough games, and as the season progresses, Dalton gets better and better. I don't expect this to be a high-scoring offense... yet. But ultimately, I think they've got a lot of the pieces to have that, but it'll take some time.