*UPDATE* Bengals and James Harrison reach agreement on a deal

[Jeb]

Yeah exactly the reason I give them the benefit of the doubt more often than not. Even though they are obviously wrong sometimes.

I just don't like when people say "oh I knew we should have draft guy x over guy y" because even if they were right and made a better decision then the coaches made, the coaches still probably made a better 6 picks then the fan.

But At the end of the day it is a message board that's what all this shit is for, so carry on.

 

There is one more angle to this argument, ...sometimes the coaches are too introspective (too close to a problem) and need a little outside perspective, ...in other words, ...our opinions have its place too.

[alleycat]

Again, I ask, how many LB's do we carry?  I thought it was 6-7.  Last year it looks like it was 6, but it was 7 the year before.

 

Right now we have Vinny Rey, Burfict, and Rey M. on the roster of people who actually played last year. Sure, we've got 3 total unknowns log-jamming at SLB, but the mere fact that they are taking a look at Harrison shows that they aren't sure they've got an answer there.

 

So we could easily bring in 3-4 new guys via free agency and the draft just to get our training camp roster up to size.  

 

And for the vet versus rookie salary argument, all I have to say is that everyone but Burfict was a vet last year.  FA numbers are down overall, we'll be getting these guys late in the process (so that will mean paying less), and a guy like Manny Lawson had a sizable deal here which we'd be replacing with a comparable one.  Also, Howard either cancels himself out if he comes back or you're looking at something similar for his replacement.  And if they all came, well, let's just remember that Harrison was willing to play for the League minimum, he wants to stay in the AFC North (good for him and us, he knows the teams, and the revenge factor comes into play with both Pitt (for dumping him) and Baltimore (for courting him but leaving him at the altar).

 

If he really is a joker-type for us then I could see Harrison as a fit. But I don't think that necessarily precludes us from signing a guy like Dansby who could start at any of the three spots.  

[scharm]

I should have put a ninja after the "we will mock you" statement.   Just kidding.

 

Certainly Zimmer will make the call and your scenario is probably a good guess as to what will happen, my only problem is I think Rey sucks at MLB and just about every rating service and my own two eyes are proof.

 

One thing I will add that most on this board refuse to acknowledge is that this defense wasn't very good at the beginning of the year last year.  The cold hard fact is that it took putting in an undrafted FA at the WILL position, bringing back Crocker,  and Newman playing perhaps the best football of his career at age 34 to save the season defensively.    Zimmer certainly worked some magic during the season, something very hard to do, to get this team back on track defensively.

 

Zimmer is a good coach no doubt but he is not infallible.   My guess is Rey will start at MLB but he will be on an incredibly short leash.  If he doesn't prove himself very early in the season he will be benched.   His play last year at the position will NOT get it done.

 

Why is that worth acknowledging?    Playoff spots are awarded to team on the results of 16 games.    Rankings are most important at the end of the season.

 

What you provide as proof he's infallible is actually the reality of the game he coaches.   

 

We are on the eve of 300+ players being added to the NFL.   Now roster spots are not changing.  Teams are not being added.   I doubt I see teams pass on the draft in favor of what they have.   It's the nature of the sport.   You are constantly looking to get better at some spot there is never a perfect state unless you are the team holding the trophy at the end and that lasts for about a month.

 

In your eyes with what happened to the Ravens.  Is that proof of failure by Ozzie Newsome in your opinion?   Then somehow that justifies your critism?  That's dumb.

[Jason]

I don't think anyone is saying you can't talk about it an share your opinions of a player.

I'm just under the opinion that ill trust what Marin and Zim think of a guy more than what a bunch of fans think. They watch all the film on these guys, talk to them and interview them in person, and also know way more about football then we will ever know.

So if we go out and draft an Arthur brown over an ogletree, even if ogletree looks like the better prospect, I'd trust that given all the info the coaches have that they have a very logical reason for doing that. Our opinions are more like educated guesses.

At the end of the day ifthe coaches might hit on their projections of players 65 percent of the time, fans prob hit 25%. That does leave opportunity for you or I to disagree with a coach and be right, but prob not very often.

Definitely still discuss but just stating my opinion on the situation.

 

The way I see it:

Sometimes I agree with what a coach does.  When I do I will praise him.

I don't always agree with what a coach does.  When I don't I will say that too.

If someone else does not like it, that's their problem.  This is a message board and I will voice my opinion no matter who I agree or disagree with.

Either way I'm not going to take it or make it personal.

[scharm]

 

There is one more angle to this argument, ...sometimes the coaches are too introspective (too close to a problem) and need a little outside perspective, ...in other words, ...our opinions have its place too.

 

They will typically seek out outside coaches serving in a role as consultant.   For example McNally and Hue from last year. 

 

Zimmer talking with Parcells on pressure packages.

 

 

Not to be insutling but I don't think they are reading ths board wondering what would Jeb do? 

[JBandJoeyV]

 
The way I see it:
Sometimes I agree with what a coach does.  When I do I will praise him.
I don't always agree with what a coach does.  When I don't I will say that too.
If someone else does not like it, that's their problem.  This is a message board and I will voice my opinion no matter who I agree or disagree with.
Either way I'm not going to take it or make it personal.

And there is definitely nothing wrong with that...

[Khatmandude]

I don't know if you meant it as douchebag of a player or person, but I can tell you this, every training camp practice I have been at or any event Maualuga is usually the last one out signing autographs and talking to the fans.

 

Maualuga seems like a genuinely good dude even if he has had some maturity issues in the past.

 

He's an awesome dude.....unfortunately he drinks WAY too much and has become stupid as a result. 

 

I am personally so glad that none of you have any influence in any calls on personnel decisions for this team.

 

Because with someone on this board calling the shots, the Bengals wouldn't have a playoff win in 20 yrs.......so glad that's not the case! 

 

 

 

Can't argue the point.. And I'm sure Picasso had a few strokes he wishes he could have back too.. The coaches may be no Picasso, but they still know way more than you, and a track record that says they are among the best in the world at what they do... What about you?

 

So you're saying we should cheer on every move they make since they're coaches and we're all dumbasses?  I could buy this if we just won the Superbowl, or even a playoff game......but we didn't....meaning the plan put together by the coaches was faulty.  This cannot be argued.   This disspells the myth that coaches make the wisest decisions always.  Did you watch Maualuga last year?  How many times did you say to yourself that having him as our MLB is an awesome thing because he makes plays?  Conversely, how many times did you find yourself cursing at him at the game or on your tv screen because he had once again fucked up?  The ratio for me is quite one sided.  If you feel differently, tell us why you think having him in there is such a good thing?  Just because the coach said so? 

[Slag911]

 

Politicians are in office because they are the best at getting votes.  I think we can all agree that there seems to be a disconnect as far as winning elections and achievement in regards to politics.. Your analogy is lame.

 

Regardless, I don't have an issue with people discussing these things... Who we should sign, who you think would be better in the middle, are all relevant topics.  It's the attitude many on here have about those decisions that is irritating.

 

It's mostly that I think that if pretty much any one of you were to actually sit at a table with our coaches and try to debate them like you do here on these topics, I think someone ends up looking and feeling foolish.. And I don't think that would be Zim...

 

Y'know what is funny.  I still can't believe that we had a 6th ranked defense with all of the "talent" we had last year.  I think Zimmer should get "coach of the year" for making this defense respectible with the replacement players and old timers he has been given.  He's like the horse wisperer and can put together scemes better than anyone.  There is not another coach in the NFL that could take the washed up pile of trash he has been given and get so much out of them.  At the end of the day, I guess I'm fine with whatever they decide to do on Defense (even signing Harrison - yuck) before the draft because Zimmer is the man.  Sign a few vets at LB and then draft some awesome talent on offense.  Zimmer will get his job done.  Now we just need to better execution and a little more talent (primarily at RB) on offense to score a few more points.  Pretty excited about April 25th...    

[Jeb]

 

They will typically seek out outside coaches serving in a role as consultant.   For example McNally and Hue from last year. 

 

Zimmer talking with Parcells on pressure packages.

 

 

[b]Not to be insutling but I don't think they are reading ths board wondering what would Jeb do? [/b]

 

LOL, ...I would hope not, ...but, ...sometimes the peanut gallery is right.

[Bengals1181]

 

 

Also, ...we have more money to spend than roster space.

 

 

that doesn't mean you start being stupid with it.

[Bengals1181]

Again, I ask, how many LB's do we carry?  I thought it was 6-7.  Last year it looks like it was 6, but it was 7 the year before.

 

Right now we have Vinny Rey, Burfict, and Rey M. on the roster of people who actually played last year. Sure, we've got 3 total unknowns log-jamming at SLB, but the mere fact that they are taking a look at Harrison shows that they aren't sure they've got an answer there.

 

So we could easily bring in 3-4 new guys via free agency and the draft just to get our training camp roster up to size.  

 

And for the vet versus rookie salary argument, all I have to say is that everyone but Burfict was a vet last year.  FA numbers are down overall, we'll be getting these guys late in the process (so that will mean paying less), and a guy like Manny Lawson had a sizable deal here which we'd be replacing with a comparable one.  Also, Howard either cancels himself out if he comes back or you're looking at something similar for his replacement.  And if they all came, well, let's just remember that Harrison was willing to play for the League minimum, he wants to stay in the AFC North (good for him and us, he knows the teams, and the revenge factor comes into play with both Pitt (for dumping him) and Baltimore (for courting him but leaving him at the altar).

 

If he really is a joker-type for us then I could see Harrison as a fit. But I don't think that necessarily precludes us from signing a guy like Dansby who could start at any of the three spots.  

 

 

typically 6 with a 7th tweener DE/LB.  Sometimes they'll just go 6 if they've got an extra DL they really like.

[|Lucid|]

 

He's an awesome dude.....unfortunately he drinks WAY too much and has become stupid as a result. 

 

 

Because with someone on this board calling the shots, the Bengals wouldn't have a playoff win in 20 yrs.......so glad that's not the case! 

 

 

So you're saying we should cheer on every move they make since they're coaches and we're all dumbasses?  I could buy this if we just won the Superbowl, or even a playoff game......but we didn't....meaning the plan put together by the coaches was faulty.  This cannot be argued.   This disspells the myth that coaches make the wisest decisions always.  Did you watch Maualuga last year?  How many times did you say to yourself that having him as our MLB is an awesome thing because he makes plays?  Conversely, how many times did you find yourself cursing at him at the game or on your tv screen because he had once again fucked up?  The ratio for me is quite one sided.  If you feel differently, tell us why you think having him in there is such a good thing?  Just because the coach said so? 

 

Can you not see the difference between "cheering on" and not acting like someone in a far more educated position (let alone track record) is an idiot for not doing what you decided is a better course after a brief perusal of partial facts?

[alleycat]

Whoops.  I forgot Lamur.  

 

IMO, he's the REAL wild card at LB.  If the team believes he's an NFL starter, I say fire away at a FA SLB, take a WLB guy later in the draft and call it a day (and hope Jamie Collins falls to us in the 3rd!).

[MichaelWeston]

 

Can you not see the difference between "cheering on" and not acting like someone in a far more educated position (let alone track record) is an idiot for not doing what you decided is a better course after a brief perusal of partial facts?

There is still something to be said about all the evidence going in one direction and a coach not seeing that. Ie Maualuga at MLB.

[|Lucid|]

There is stills omething to be said about all the evidence going in one direction and a coach not seeing that. Ie Maualuga at MLB.

 

That's the rub.. You don't have all the evidence.. You just act like you do.

[MichaelWeston]

 

That's the rub.. You don't have all the evidence.. You just act like you do.

 

A preponderance of the evidence then?

[|Lucid|]

 

A preponderance of the evidence then?

 

Circumstantial mostly?

[Khatmandude]

 

Can you not see the difference between "cheering on" and not acting like someone in a far more educated position (let alone track record) is an idiot for not doing what you decided is a better course after a brief perusal of partial facts?

 

That's what fans do on message boards right?  We voice our opinions about what has transpired and it's human nature to suggest an alternative that you feel may have helped the team progress at a little better pace.  Nothing wrong with that. 

[scharm]

There is stills omething to be said about all the evidence going in one direction and a coach not seeing that. Ie Maualuga at MLB.

 

No there isn't.  All you are doing is taking a weak spot on the team and applying some uneducated assumption and trying to pass it off as a credible analysis.

 

In reality this is just the process of putting a team toghether.     Don't worry there will always be a weak spot for you to pretend that you alone have identified and then magically prescribe your solution.

[Jeb]

 

 

that doesn't mean you start being stupid with it.

 

Lets pretend Smith decides he wants to be known as a left tackle and wants to get paid the equivalent of the highest paid left tackle in the league.

 

We move on and sign a probowl left tackle (same age as Whitworth) for a couple years and at less than half the price of Smith and draft both a left and right tackle in the draft.

 

Now, ...what were you saying about money again?

[Khatmandude]

 

That's the rub.. You don't have all the evidence.. You just act like you do.

 

What evidence do I not have?  But I guess technically, you're right.....none of us have ALL the evidence.  I do have a good amount of it though......I've clearly seen Rey take bad angles, have seen him engulfed in linemen completely unable to shed a block, I've seen him get knocked on his ass, miss tackles, lack effort in tackling at times, simply un-able to cover the middle of the field whatsoever.  What evidence can be presented to me that would make me forget about these things and to make me say he's a good player that adds to a defense?  Maybe I'm being arrogant but I don't believe there is a significant enough pile of evidence somewhere to point me away from my current view of him. 

 

With him playing, the defense was ranked in the top 7....imagine how good and consistent it can be if a better player is in.  Imagine the lift a playmaking MLB can provide this team.  Rey doesn't make plays....your MLB should make plays. 

[MichaelWeston]

 

No there isn't.  All you are doing is taking a weak spot on the team and applying some uneducated assumption and trying to pass it off as a credible analysis.

 

In reality this is just the process of putting a team toghether.     Don't worry there will always be a weak spot for you to pretend that you alone have identified and then magically prescribe your solution.

 

I think this might be mis-directed because I don't remember doing this....but you don't want MLB on your football team to be your weak spot.

[Bengals1181]

 

Lets pretend Smith decides he wants to be known as a left tackle and wants to get paid the equivalent of the highest paid left tackle in the league.

 

We move on and sign a probowl left tackle (same age as Whitworth) for a couple years and at less than half the price of Smith and draft both a left and right tackle in the draft.

 

Now, ...what were you saying about money again?

 

 

lol what the hell are you talking about?  First, just say Clabo, we all know who you're talking about.

 

And if they sign Clabo, they won't draft two tackles in the draft.  

 

 

And what does any of that have to do with being stupid with money at the LB position?

[MichaelWeston]

 

Circumstantial mostly?

We have visual and statistical evidence.

[scharm]

 

What evidence do I not have?  But I guess technically, you're right.....none of us have ALL the evidence.  I do have a good amount of it though......I've clearly seen Rey take bad angles, have seen him engulfed in linemen completely unable to shed a block, I've seen him get knocked on his ass, miss tackles, lack effort in tackling at times, simply un-able to cover the middle of the field whatsoever.  What evidence can be presented to me that would make me forget about these things and to make me say he's a good player that adds to a defense?  Maybe I'm being arrogant but I don't believe there is a significant enough pile of evidence somewhere to point me away from my current view of him. 

 

With him playing, the defense was ranked in the top 7....imagine how good and consistent it can be if a better player is in.  Imagine the lift a playmaking MLB can provide this team.  Rey doesn't make plays....your MLB should make plays. 

 

See this why Jamie B was right about the IPAD stuff.    Apparently Khatmandude has successfully stolen game plans, play calls, coaches thoughts, player grades, film cut ups.

 

Motherfucker!  How could you do this?  How could you risk this information getting out to the public or worse other teams?   You have the evidence!!!!! SHIT!  Fucking wireless internet and IPADS!!!!!  FUCK FUCK FUCK!   

 

What are we going to do now?