SocalBengalEd Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I saw Rey on the field last season too. Many of the issues he had stemmed from the fact that the majority of the time he was flanked by two undrafted rookies - Burfict and Lamur - and he was trying to do too much and cover more than just his own responsibility. Zimmer even alluded to this when he talked about how Rey was put in the position of trying to direct "kinder care" out there on the field. Now your trying to make excuses for his shitty play. "He was trying to do too much and cover more than just his own responsibility". We would all be happy if he just did his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 To your point...I think Zimmer is master of putting the BPA in the position he fits. We suffer greatly from lack of talent on defense at times and he has been truly awesome at hiding our faults or at least disguising it. Do other teams still take advantage of Maualuga - of course but that doesn't mean he isn't the best MLB we had last season. You can't just insert Burfict in there as a rookie - it doesn't work. Seriously...does anyone really think that all of the recycled players we have are that talented (all of a sudden)? I think we have some good players that fit well into Zimmer's scheme. Plug in better players = top 5 defense. I think we should all be a bit thankful that so many of the dumpster players we got off the street turned into productive scheme players. Burfict is really an anomoly but geez I'm so glad he worked out and at a silly price. I personally love the way Zimmer conducts himself with the players themselves and they seem to really respond and produce for him. Perhaps karma is finally coming back because our draft gambling and bad luck have been brutal for the last 10+ years. It breaks my heart every time I see my Thurman and Pollack jersey in the back of my closet. What we can do as fans is not nit pick everything they don't do well. IMHO there has been some great drafting and some sheer luck in the past couple of years that has brought us to here. So be positive, be thankful, and let's have a great year in 2013. I don't see the harm in discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Their are plenty of incompetent people with high positions and plenty of intelligent people who just do things as a hobby. Incompetence does not last long in the NFL. Zimmer has performed at the top of his profession for over 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Awesome question here... Say you had 3 months to prepare. Would you take yourself and your football knowledge over say, Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden, or Mike Zimmer come draft day? Say you're running your scheme too. Your play calls, your alignments (coaches work on teaching your philosophies, steps, instructions). Do you take your own opinion or would you leave it up to the current coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I will never understand how people on here defend Rey. He just isn't a starting caliber lb. maybe the people on here defending him are the drunk idiots wearing his jersey at the game. I just don't get it They're not necessarily drunk idiots wearing his jersey at the games......they're just idiots haha. I actually have a signed Rey jersey, I like Rey the dude....he just needs to get his head right before he can be an effective football player again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Incompetence does not last long in the NFL. Zimmer has performed at the top of his profession for over 20 years. That doesnt mean Rey is good, it simply means he has to work with what he has to work with, and if one looks at the avaiable free agents and potential draft picks one can come to the conclusion they kept Rey for the reasons of not wanting too much turnover at the position and the fact that he was kept on a short term contract says as much. In fact they even said as much regarding what they thought FA was going to be didnt turn out how they thought. Rey staying on the team is not indicitive of how good he is as much as how limited their options were. They even said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Damn...what a cage match this is! And don't have to buy Pay-Per-View! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/10/3861618/the-bengals-and-rey-maualuga-what-happens-next Pro Football Focus rated Maualuga as the worst inside linebacker in the league, earning an overall grade of -26.3. He earned a negative grade at MIKE in 2011 as well. However, at SAM he excelled, earning a grade of 5.1 in '09 and 5.8 in '10. The SAM linebacker was on the field for less than half of the team's snaps in 2012 as the Bengals were in the nickel formation more often than not. Owen Daniels will be very excited if Rey is starting in the middle in 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Awesome question here... Say you had 3 months to prepare. Would you take yourself and your football knowledge over say, Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden, or Mike Zimmer come draft day? Say you're running your scheme too. Your play calls, your alignments (coaches work on teaching your philosophies, steps, instructions). Do you take your own opinion or would you leave it up to the current coaches? 100% current coaches. They do a great job. Although I would like to see us be a bit more creative on both sides and dictate things more, you can't argue with the results on defense. Mike Zimmer has forgotten more football this month then I will ever know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think that Rey is not starter quality at MLB and I don't think I stand alone with that assessment. The reality of the sport is we would be better off with a better MLB. I agree with your reality being that not all positions are all stars. But you are acting like teams should just accept weakspots and not try to upgrade. Teams do all they can to try not to start Rey Maualuga's (at MLB) and if they have to they role with it. No. There is a process. I am confident the Bengals as an organization will have a pool of players to allow sufficient competition. Coaches are paid to manage and then develop a team from this process. All you do is cherry pick the less favorable results and try to transform that into evidence that somehow your knowledge could manage it better and then try to sell that to the population of this message board. Then when people disagree with you in favor of the people that are actually paid to do this, you hide behind a post like above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Now your trying to make excuses for his shitty play. "He was trying to do too much and cover more than just his own responsibility". We would all be happy if he just did his job. Not making excuses. Just quoting what Zimmer said. Obviously he disagrees with your assessment. I'm going to listen to the guy who has a little more insight into what was actually occurring on the field. Feel free to believe that you have more insight than our defensive coordinator, but I'll take and educated, informed opinion of what was happening over some loudmouth on a message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/1/10/3861618/the-bengals-and-rey-maualuga-what-happens-next Pro Football Focus rated Maualuga as the worst inside linebacker in the league, earning an overall grade of -26.3. He earned a negative grade at MIKE in 2011 as well. However, at SAM he excelled, earning a grade of 5.1 in '09 and 5.8 in '10. The SAM linebacker was on the field for less than half of the team's snaps in 2012 as the Bengals were in the nickel formation more often than not. Owen Daniels will be very excited if Rey is starting in the middle in 2013 Oh good lord! Did someone actually mention pro football focus??? Now we know we're dealing with stupidity and ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Oh good lord! Did someone actually mention pro football focus??? Now we know we're dealing with stupidity and ignorance. We've been dealing with it ever since you came back to this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocalBengalEd Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Not making excuses. Just quoting what Zimmer said. Obviously he disagrees with your assessment. I'm going to listen to the guy who has a little more insight into what was actually occurring on the field. Feel free to believe that you have more insight than our defensive coordinator, but I'll take and educated, informed opinion of what was happening over some loudmouth on a message board. I'm no loudmouth, but I'm also not blinded by my orange n black goggles some of you are. Whether its Ohalete , Maualuga, Artrell Hawkins or Tate theres some fans that always defend them no matter how bad they perform on the field just because they are Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Why is that worth acknowledging? Playoff spots are awarded to team on the results of 16 games. Rankings are most important at the end of the season. What you provide as proof he's infallible is actually the reality of the game he coaches. We are on the eve of 300+ players being added to the NFL. Now roster spots are not changing. Teams are not being added. I doubt I see teams pass on the draft in favor of what they have. It's the nature of the sport. You are constantly looking to get better at some spot there is never a perfect state unless you are the team holding the trophy at the end and that lasts for about a month. In your eyes with what happened to the Ravens. Is that proof of failure by Ozzie Newsome in your opinion? Then somehow that justifies your critism? That's dumb. Its worth acknowledging because Zimmer did NOT have the best players on the field at the beginning of the season PERIOD. Furthermore, the idea that an UDFA would become an important part of the defense the same year he joins the team is the stuff of a miniseries or feature length film like "The Blind Side". Furthermore, few teams in the NFL have a guy, Crocker, sitting at home playing X-Box, they can bring in DURING the season, who knows the defense and actually IMPROVE the play of the team. Furthermore, the idea that a 34 year old CB, who had rarely shown any greatness in Dallas in recent years and never lived up to his #5 pick in the draft, would play at the level he played last year is a VERY RARE occurrence. You probably have to go back to Kurt Warner to see a similar result. I applaud Zimmer for recognizing the need to make changes during the season but the reality is he was very LUCKY to have those 3 players ALL rise to the occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Incompetence does not last long in the NFL. Zimmer has performed at the top of his profession for over 20 years. The other cold hard fact is Zimmer is NOT making the FA and Draft decisions. Sure he has input but he isn't the one with the checkbook out pulling the lever. He will do as good a job as any with the talent he is GIVEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Its worth acknowledging because Zimmer did NOT have the best players on the field at the beginning of the season PERIOD. Furthermore, the idea that an UDFA would become an important part of the defense the same year he joins the team is the stuff of a miniseries or feature length film like "The Blind Side". Furthermore, few teams in the NFL have a guy, Crocker, sitting at home playing X-Box, they can bring in DURING the season, who knows the defense and actually IMPROVE the play of the team. Furthermore, the idea that a 34 year old CB, who had rarely shown any greatness in Dallas in recent years and never lived up to his #5 pick in the draft, would play at the level he played last year is a VERY RARE occurrence. You probably have to go back to Kurt Warner to see a similar result. I applaud Zimmer for recognizing the need to make changes during the season but the reality is he was very LUCKY to have those 3 players ALL rise to the occasion. You say that, but this is exactly what he has built his career on. It's why the cream rises to the top. At some point you have to give skill a nod over luck.. Zimmer has made a name for turning chicken shit into chicken salad. It's precisely his ability to correctly determine what exactly a player is good and not good at doing that allows the success he's had. I was singing this same song when we hired him.. It has continued to show true. Predictability is usually systemic. As far as Burfict goes, he had exactly the right guy on the field to star the season. He was a CFB flame-out with a history of poor discipline and maturity issues. The fact that Burfict has been working out is likely a direct result of hard love by Marvin and Zimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Oh good lord! Did someone actually mention pro football focus??? Now we know we're dealing with stupidity and ignorance. Some of us can see as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Its worth acknowledging because Zimmer did NOT have the best players on the field at the beginning of the season PERIOD. Furthermore, the idea that an UDFA would become an important part of the defense the same year he joins the team is the stuff of a miniseries or feature length film like "The Blind Side". Furthermore, few teams in the NFL have a guy, Crocker, sitting at home playing X-Box, they can bring in DURING the season, who knows the defense and actually IMPROVE the play of the team. Furthermore, the idea that a 34 year old CB, who had rarely shown any greatness in Dallas in recent years and never lived up to his #5 pick in the draft, would play at the level he played last year is a VERY RARE occurrence. You probably have to go back to Kurt Warner to see a similar result. I applaud Zimmer for recognizing the need to make changes during the season but the reality is he was very LUCKY to have those 3 players ALL rise to the occasion. Didn't he also do the same thing with Dhani Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Damn...what a cage match this is! And don't have to buy Pay-Per-View! Why is Bobo suddenly bleeding? I think the Iron Shiek is hiding something in his left hand. There's so much blood Bobo can't see. Why is the ref so blind? Bobo wins but he's blinded for life....for a week. What else is on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 You say that, but this is exactly what he has built his career on. It's why the cream rises to the top. At some point you have to give skill a nod over luck.. Zimmer has made a name for turning chicken shit into chicken salad. It's precisely his ability to correctly determine what exactly a player is good and not good at doing that allows the success he's had. I was singing this same song when we hired him.. It has continued to show true. Predictability is usually systemic. As far as Burfict goes, he had exactly the right guy on the field to star the season. He was a CFB flame-out with a history of poor discipline and maturity issues. The fact that Burfict has been working out is likely a direct result of hard love by Marvin and Zimmer. I don't disagree with anything you posted. Zimmer will make the best decisions and make the changes necessary to improve the team based on the players HE IS GIVEN. My point is he was pretty damn lucky to have a guy like Burfect available to put into that position. If we had not taken a flyer on him, and Crocker had not stayed in shape, it probably would have turned out differently. That is not a knock on Zimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 No. There is a process. I am confident the Bengals as an organization will have a pool of players to allow sufficient competition. Coaches are paid to manage and then develop a team from this process. All you do is cherry pick the less favorable results and try to transform that into evidence that somehow your knowledge could manage it better and then try to sell that to the population of this message board. Then when people disagree with you in favor of the people that are actually paid to do this, you hide behind a post like above. "All you do is cherry pick the less favorable results and try to transform that into evidence that somehow your knowledge could manage it better and then try to sell that to the population of this message board." I keep literally saying that I could not manage better then Zimmer. I am not sure if there is some other medium that will get it through to you but you keep attributing things to me that I am not doing. Others on the message board seem willing to have a discussion about it. The Bengals have a process and if they were 100% on that process then we would have super bowls every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I don't disagree with anything you posted. Zimmer will make the best decisions and make the changes necessary to improve the team based on the players HE IS GIVEN. My point is he was pretty damn lucky to have a guy like Burfect available to put into that position. If we had not taken a flyer on him, and Crocker had not stayed in shape, it probably would have turned out differently. That is not a knock on Zimmer. Maybe, you aren't going to be good every year. but there may have been some other rabbit hiding in there for him to pull out. Also, while acknowledging your statement is factually correct, I don't think Zimmer is getting stuck with players he doesn't want. It seems from the outside looking in that he has a good deal of input regarding personnel on that side of the ball. "All you do is cherry pick the less favorable results and try to transform that into evidence that somehow your knowledge could manage it better and then try to sell that to the population of this message board." I keep literally saying that I could not manage better then Zimmer. I am not sure if there is some other medium that will get it through to you but you keep attributing things to me that I am not doing. Others on the message board seem willing to have a discussion about it. The Bengals have a process and if they were 100% on that process then we would have super bowls every year. Perhaps you are defending a position you aren't even occupying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I don't disagree with anything you posted. Zimmer will make the best decisions and make the changes necessary to improve the team based on the players HE IS GIVEN. My point is he was pretty damn lucky to have a guy like Burfect available to put into that position. If we had not taken a flyer on him, and Crocker had not stayed in shape, it probably would have turned out differently. That is not a knock on Zimmer. Its actually lauding Zimmer for having success with average or surprising pieces. Anyone can win with Lebron and DWade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 "All you do is cherry pick the less favorable results and try to transform that into evidence that somehow your knowledge could manage it better and then try to sell that to the population of this message board." I keep literally saying that I could not manage better then Zimmer. I am not sure if there is some other medium that will get it through to you but you keep attributing things to me that I am not doing. Others on the message board seem willing to have a discussion about it. The Bengals have a process and if they were 100% on that process then we would have super bowls every year. Again, Zimmer does an outstanding job with what he is given. Katie and Mike should be giving him better toys to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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