|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 That's what fans do on message boards right? We voice our opinions about what has transpired and it's human nature to suggest an alternative that you feel may have helped the team progress at a little better pace. Nothing wrong with that. You are absolutely right.. It's also human nature to exhibit selection/confirmation bias and to generally act like we know more than we do. I just think it's possible to have an opinion and to arrive at differing conclusions while also understandingthat you really aren't in the position to make a better decision even with all other things being equal. I think you will find that most "these guys know what they are doing" responses come when someone exhibits a lack of that understanding. Eg: "Mauluaga is a shitty football player! We should cut his ass right now and if he is still starting next season I am going to freak the fuck out! Zim get your head out of your ass please!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hundreds of experts from 31 teams said last year that Vontaze Burfict wasn't worth a draft pick. Many with more years and success then the owners and coaches of the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hundreds of experts from 31 teams said last year that Vontaze Burfict wasn't worth a draft pick. Many with more years and success then the owners and coaches of the Bengals. Right.. And I would still take all 32 of them (and probably hundreds more) over you in the war room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 You are absolutely right.. It's also human nature to exhibit selection/confirmation bias and to generally act like we know more than we do. I just think it's possible to have an opinion and to arrive at differing conclusions while also understandingthat you really aren't in the position to make a better decision even with all other things being equal. I think you will find that most "these guys know what they are doing" responses come when someone exhibits a lack of that understanding. Eg: "Mauluaga is a shitty football player! We should cut his ass right now and if he is still starting next season I am going to freak the fuck out! Zim get your head out of your ass please!" Zim and Marvin both started Taylor Mays last year. Plenty of guys on here said, thats absurd he doesn't have the coverage skills that you want/need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Zim and Marvin both started Taylor Mays last year. Plenty of guys on here said, thats absurd he doesn't have the coverage skills that you want/need. Oooh, that's a nice cherry.. I bet there are more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hundreds of experts from 31 teams said last year that Vontaze Burfict wasn't worth a draft pick. Many with more years and success then the owners and coaches of the Bengals. I"m not getting into this argument, but to this point: The Bengals didn't use a draft pick on him either. They waited until the UDFA period like every other team, and it was Marvin Lewis' relationship with Burfict that got him to Cincy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Right.. And I would still take all 32 of them (and probably hundreds more) over you in the war room. I think your argument is exploding into itself here. I have not read anyone on this board say they know more about football then Mike Zimmer and questioning one of the hundreds of decisions he makes isn't an indication of that. No one is saying I should be GM of the Bengals because I posted on a message board that Taylor Mays sucks. Or I should be the Defensive Coordinator because it seems pretty clear that Maualage can't play the middle and the current defensive coordinator seems to want him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slag911 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Zim and Marvin both started Taylor Mays last year. Plenty of guys on here said, thats absurd he doesn't have the coverage skills that you want/need. I think what we need to ask ourselves is what would Dave Shula do? Bazinga! :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Right.. And I would still take all 32 of them (and probably hundreds more) over you in the war room. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAcEzhQ7oqA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Oooh, that's a nice cherry.. I bet there are more... Livings is one. But there doesn't have to be a lot more. If there were a ton more then people would be saying Zimmer should be fired. The overwhelming sentiment is that Zimmer makes great decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 See this why Jamie B was right about the IPAD stuff. Apparently Khatmandude has successfully stolen game plans, play calls, coaches thoughts, player grades, film cut ups. Motherfucker! How could you do this? How could you risk this information getting out to the public or worse other teams? You have the evidence!!!!! SHIT! Fucking wireless internet and IPADS!!!!! FUCK FUCK FUCK! What are we going to do now? See, this is stupid. Really stupid. You don't need to know what the exact play call was to know what a player's responsibility is. Not unless you're a total dumbass or football illiterate. If you have played football before, it's not unheard of to be able to deduce what type of defense the D is actually in and when that happens, player responsibilities aren't so hard to figure out. But in any case, I don't think there are plays that call for Rey to show the inability to cover a TE. Or any plays that call for him to miss the guy running with the ball or to not try to shed a block. Because if those plays are the ones being called, we've got bigger issues than Rey. You are absolutely right.. It's also human nature to exhibit selection/confirmation bias and to generally act like we know more than we do. I just think it's possible to have an opinion and to arrive at differing conclusions while also understandingthat you really aren't in the position to make a better decision even with all other things being equal. I think you will find that most "these guys know what they are doing" responses come when someone exhibits a lack of that understanding. Eg: "Mauluaga is a shitty football player! We should cut his ass right now and if he is still starting next season I am going to freak the fuck out! Zim get your head out of your ass please!" So you're saying people at times over-value their own opinion?!?!?!? GET OUT!!!! :) Hundreds of experts from 31 teams said last year that Vontaze Burfict wasn't worth a draft pick. Many with more years and success then the owners and coaches of the Bengals. Actually it was all 32 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Livings is one. But there doesn't have to be a lot more. If there were a ton more then people would be saying Zimmer should be fired. The overwhelming sentiment is that Zimmer makes great decisions. Right.. And if Rey is starting next year, it doesn't mean he made a mistake. My contention is that if you were to sit down with Zimmer and talk about it you would probably understand his thinking, and I would wager it's likely you would change yours, not the other way around. Or do you not agree with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think what we need to ask ourselves is what would Dave Shula do? Dave would show us to our table, smile blankly, and tell us our waitress will be right with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think this might be mis-directed because I don't remember doing this....but you don't want MLB on your football team to be your weak spot. I think this kinda a proves out your mentality. How in the world could someon state this while knowing we've had top defenses with Dhani Jones and Rey as MLBs. This isn't a defense of Rey or Dhani. It's pointing the mentality that is wrong in nature. The best defenses of all time had weak spots. You will always have weak spots. I said many times and years ago. In order to be an elite defense you probably can't have that many B players at LB and S. But it is unlikely to have all A players. So it becomes a matter of where you want your B player. I can take a B or even C player at MLB as long as there isn't one at S, SLB, or WLB. But your comment above is false. I see no reason and the performance is proven that a B/C player at MLB will not and has not undermined the D-line and very effective CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Right.. And if Rey is starting next year, it doesn't mean he made a mistake. My contention is that if you were to sit down with Zimmer and talk about it you would probably understand his thinking, and I would wager it's likely you would change yours, not the other way around. Or do you not agree with this? It depends what his opinion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 It depends what his opinion is. Rey is starting in this scenario.. His opinion would be that Rey has a place on this football team, and isn't a "shitty football player". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think this kinda a proves out your mentality. How in the world could someon state this while knowing we've had top defenses with Dhani Jones and Rey as MLBs. This isn't a defense of Rey or Dhani. It's pointing the mentality that is wrong in nature. The best defenses of all time had weak spots. You will always have weak spots. I said many times and years ago. In order to be an elite defense you probably can't have that many B players at LB and S. But it is unlikely to have all A players. So it becomes a matter of where you want your B player. I can take a B or even C player at MLB as long as there isn't one at S, SLB, or WLB. But your comment above is false. I see no reason and the performance is proven that a B/C player at MLB will not and has not undermined the D-line and very effective CBs. I saw poor performance in the playoffs at MLB undermining the rest of the defense. Rey is starting in this scenario.. His opinion would be that Rey has a place on this football team, and isn't a "shitty football player". I am all for Rey at SLB. I think it's a brilliant move. Wish I would have thought of it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 lol what the hell are you talking about? First, just say Clabo, we all know who you're talking about. And if they sign Clabo, they won't draft two tackles in the draft. And what does any of that have to do with being stupid with money at the LB position? I contend we need the extra linebacker and that we have a butt load of money to spend and shouldn't count on this team signing any more of our own veterans. Atkins may not get signed. Smith may not get signed. MJ may not get signed (long term). ...and yet we still have all that money. That is why I pose the hypothetical. Also, it has been floated that they will be drafting tackles in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Let's not all forget that it's not like our coaches get to make all of the decisions they want to. There are things like money and access to player (can you even get the guy you want in the draft or FA) as well as a ton of other variables. For that reason, just because a guy is on the field we also can't leap to the conclusion that he's the best, or who the coaches would like to have or whatever. The only thing that is clear when comparing what we want to the coaches is that we have ZERO control whatsoever. While they have some. So we are free to bitch. :drinks: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hundreds of experts from 31 teams said last year that Vontaze Burfict wasn't worth a draft pick. Many with more years and success then the owners and coaches of the Bengals. See, this is stupid. Really stupid. You don't need to know what the exact play call was to know what a player's responsibility is. Not unless you're a total dumbass or football illiterate. If you have played football before, it's not unheard of to be able to deduce what type of defense the D is actually in and when that happens, player responsibilities aren't so hard to figure out. But in any case, I don't think there are plays that call for Rey to show the inability to cover a TE. Or any plays that call for him to miss the guy running with the ball or to not try to shed a block. Because if those plays are the ones being called, we've got bigger issues than Rey. I don't know about you but when I watched film with coaches they had a log of plays called and they graded accordingly. What do you know that they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I contend we need the extra linebacker and that we have a butt load of money to spend and shouldn't count on this team signing any more of our own veterans. Atkins may not get signed. Smith may not get signed. MJ may not get signed (long term). ...and yet we still have all that money. That is why I pose the hypothetical. Also, it has been floated that they will be drafting tackles in this draft. so they want to sign Atkins, Smith, and MJ (and others), but you want to spend $5M on Harrison and Dansby to SHARE time at a position that isn't even on the field 55-60% of the time. Thank you for making my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 It depends what his opinion is. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You'd piss down your leg and ending up saying Yes Sir, Yes Sir 3 bags full. Let's not pretend you are even prepared to have that conversation. I saw poor performance in the playoffs at MLB undermining the rest of the defense. I am all for Rey at SLB. I think it's a brilliant move. Wish I would have thought of it first. You did? I saw a defense that gave the offense every chance to win a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Ian Rappaport says it's one or the other, Harrison or Dansby. Harrison intriuges, but I lean heavily towards Dansby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think what we need to ask ourselves is what would Dave Shula do? Bazinga! :ninja: Easy - he would flip the steak over when it's ready, and place it on the grill so it gets those cool grill marks for fancy presentation to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I saw Rey on the field last season too. Many of the issues he had stemmed from the fact that the majority of the time he was flanked by two undrafted rookies - Burfict and Lamur - and he was trying to do too much and cover more than just his own responsibility. Zimmer even alluded to this when he talked about how Rey was put in the position of trying to direct "kinder care" out there on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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