BengalRep85-9 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I think this is the problem right here. The Reds have really put themselves in a rough place. They traded away a lot of their minor league talent so they can't build through the minors. They tried to spend money but they just don't have enough money to spend. They really need to focus on trying to rebuild the farm system so they can build through that and be successful for several years. The core of this team was built through players that were brought up through the minors and they needed to get back to that. Precisely and it's a scary notion because it takes years to build up a system of major league talent then a few more for all that to gel into a good major league club. I foresee some rough years ahead for this team unless they can pull off some kind of crazy trade, probably involving Votto or BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Then what about the rotation? Do you bring Arroyo back? Bailey? Leake will get a good raise in arbitration. Latos will be in line for a huge raise after next year. Arroyo wants to be in the 12-15M range and Bailey asked for almost 6M last year in arbitration, he'll most likely ask for more this time if we even offer it to him. Leake will most likely ask for at least 5M. Plus Votto goes from 9M to 17M next year and Ludwick goes from 2.5M to 8M. Where is all this money going to come from? You can kiss Choo goodbye also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 This about sums it up, eh? [attachment=1249:IMG_20131002_073405.jpg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/cincinnati-reds-pitcher-mat-latos-wife-dallas-latos-says-she-was-attacked-by-pittsburgh-pirates-fan-at-game-100113 Dallas Latos attacked by pirates fan at game. Stay classy pittsburgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 At this point, I guess it's "Go Dodgers!" My grandfather always used to say "root for the team that beat you", but I cannot root for a team stealer fans root for. And I hate the Cardinals and Braves more than I hate the Dodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 What do you say about "getting them next year" when this season was "next year"? Disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Brandon Phillips: “we choked” Craig Calcaterra Oct 2, 2013, 6:52 AM EDT The guy tells it like it is. Sometimes when he shouldn’t. But you can pretty much expect him to go beyond the cliches before most guys do, and he did so last night after the Reds’ loss to the Pirates: “We choked. I don’t care how my teammates feel about what I am saying now, because it’s truth. Either you win or you go home. And I’m going home. The last place I want to be is on my couch … I choked,” Phillips added. “I didn’t do [anything] to make the team win.” I tend to be dismissive of people who claim that ballplayers “choked” as it implies some mental or emotional component to athletic failure that is never fair or reasonable for fans — who know next to nothing of what goes on in an athlete’s head — to assume. Baseball is a game which consists of an awful lot of failure. It isn’t necessarily something new or different just when it happens to come at the most inopportune times. That said: when Phillips says it of himself? Well, OK, I’m willing to take his word for it. He and Joey Vottowent 0 for 6 with runners in scoring position and, after a couple of home runs put Johnny Cueto in a hole, the entire Reds lineup seemed to be trying to hit three-run homers with every swing. Even Votto was out of his usual game of plate patience. In his first two plate appearances he saw four pitches and swung at them all, grounding out on the first one and then striking out on three pitches. If Brandon Phillips says he choked, I’m inclined to believe him. Especially after seeing how rattled Cueto and some of the other Reds reacted to the extremely hostile Pirates crowd. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/02/brandon-phillips-we-choked/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 JFC. 162 games to watch that. I'm glad baseball is going into hibernation. I may not watch another game. That was by far the most frustrating team to watch. If it weren't for the pitching, we would not have been in that game anyways. This team needs some guts. Stop striking out so much. Stop swinging at first pitches. Be patient at the plate and don't let some spud go deep into the game because you keep hitting the first pitches for outs. I'm not sure this team is bound for the playoffs next year if they don't man up and start getting some hits with RISP. Joey is certainly going to step it up, too. He was a colossal turd last night, as was Brandon. Not to mention, they aren't going to have Choo to get on base next year. I feel like we may have just watched a window close. How goddamn frustrating. Oh and what happens when Price leaves for Seattle as is being reported.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 game was going fine til someone let Rumble start a game thread. :ninja: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 game was going fine til someone let Rumble start a game thread. :ninja: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 What do you say about "getting them next year" when this season was "next year"? Disappointing. Disappointing indeed... I had a bad feeling all day about the game last night. Sucks to see them go out like that, ending the year so poorly... It's probably Dalton's fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I think the Votto hate has certainly gone too far. In no way is he overpaid, have you seen the contracts being given out? See what Pence got and what Choo will get. Votto's defence has me more worried than his approach at the plate. It was a down year for him, but he's still our best player and one of the best in the game. You can make the argument that a team like the reds shouldn't commit that much to one player, but Votto is certainly worth at least that much to many teams. The contracts to be mad about are Broxton, Phillips, Baker, and to a lesser extent, Ludwick. Broxton was given closer money (which is a dumb concept to begin with) for a guy that wouldn't have been your closer. Phillips looks like he's started his decline to me. His poor season was masked by his RBI total, which was a product of Choo, Votto, and luck. Ludwick being hurt makes it hard to judge, but he's getting a lot of money. However, he took less to stay with us than he would have got elsewhere I'm not a Baker fan but I see the value he brings. However, the $3.5M would be better spent on player salary with a young/cheap manager. I'm also disappointed in Marshall. We pay him well and gave up Wood, so he should be dominant but he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I doubt it would happen, because I'm not sure LaRussa would ever manage this team, but I wonder if Walt would extend a feeler. I kind of really hate that bastard, but I don't think this team needs a player manager. I think they need a little bit of a hardass who isn't afraid to make the players accountable for their mistakes. In all probability, we are getting Dustbunny back and I just don't think its enough to get to next level. Have to believe that Washington is going to be in the mix next year. Also, the Pirates probably aren't going to lose much if anything. The Cards have a bunch of stallions coming through the ranks. We need to have a productive off-season. We need a right handed bat if we lose Choo. Not sure where I would put him, but our right handed batters were atrocious this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 NVM. Walt has already confirmed Dusty is coming back, as he is signed for another year. Marlon Byrd would be interesting if they could get rid of Ludwick's contract. If not, a nice left handed bat to platoon with Ludwick. Also, FFS, get rid of Heisey, plz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I doubt it would happen, because I'm not sure LaRussa would ever manage this team, but I wonder if Walt would extend a feeler. I kind of really hate that bastard, but I don't think this team needs a player manager. I think they need a little bit of a hardass who isn't afraid to make the players accountable for their mistakes. In all probability, we are getting Dustbunny back and I just don't think its enough to get to next level. Have to believe that Washington is going to be in the mix next year. Also, the Pirates probably aren't going to lose much if anything. The Cards have a bunch of stallions coming through the ranks. We need to have a productive off-season. We need a right handed bat if we lose Choo. Not sure where I would put him, but our right handed batters were atrocious this year. I like that idea. I also can't stand him, but respect him as a manager and could learn to like him. Kinda like Urban Meyer.. Hated him, but now he is coaching my team and winning....so it's cool with me. And the second part....is what just might be needed..a hard ass who holds people accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I think the Votto hate has certainly gone too far. In no way is he overpaid, have you seen the contracts being given out? See what Pence got and what Choo will get. Votto's defence has me more worried than his approach at the plate. It was a down year for him, but he's still our best player and one of the best in the game. You can make the argument that a team like the reds shouldn't commit that much to one player, but Votto is certainly worth at least that much to many teams. The contracts to be mad about are Broxton, Phillips, Baker, and to a lesser extent, Ludwick. Broxton was given closer money (which is a dumb concept to begin with) for a guy that wouldn't have been your closer. Phillips looks like he's started his decline to me. His poor season was masked by his RBI total, which was a product of Choo, Votto, and luck. Ludwick being hurt makes it hard to judge, but he's getting a lot of money. However, he took less to stay with us than he would have got elsewhere I'm not a Baker fan but I see the value he brings. However, the $3.5M would be better spent on player salary with a young/cheap manager. I'm also disappointed in Marshall. We pay him well and gave up Wood, so he should be dominant but he's not. If the game was on the line in the ninth inning last night two outs down 1 guy on second and I had to pick the batter votto would prob be my 4th option based on the way this season has been. 25 mil and he isn't even a top 3 guy id want at the plate. His contract might be fair compared to what other players get, but a small market team can't afford to have a quarter of its payroll on one fucking player unless he's just a dominant player, and this year votto wasn't. Once again I hope he can bounce back in 2014, but when latos and or Bailey walk, choo walks, eTc it's gonna be vottos contract amongst a couple others that cause that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 If the game was on the line in the ninth inning last night two outs down 1 guy on second and I had to pick the batter votto would prob be my 4th option based on the way this season has been. 25 mil and he isn't even a top 3 guy id want at the plate. His contract might be fair compared to what other players get, but a small market team can't afford to have a quarter of its payroll on one fucking player unless he's just a dominant player, and this year votto wasn't. Once again I hope he can bounce back in 2014, but when latos and or Bailey walk, choo walks, eTc it's gonna be vottos contract amongst a couple others that cause that. Your letting emotion get in the way. How would it make sense to hit a .260 guy over a guy above .300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 NVM. Walt has already confirmed Dusty is coming back, as he is signed for another year. Marlon Byrd would be interesting if they could get rid of Ludwick's contract. If not, a nice left handed bat to platoon with Ludwick. Also, FFS, get rid of Heisey, plz. Walt didn't really confirm it, but I'd be shocked if they ate the contract. Bryd would have been a great pickup this year, but Walt failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Your letting emotion get in the way. How would it make sense to hit a .260 guy over a guy above .300. Go to fangraphs and look at the clutch factor. Vottos was one of the lowest on the team and by a good margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 NVM. Walt has already confirmed Dusty is coming back, as he is signed for another year. Marlon Byrd would be interesting if they could get rid of Ludwick's contract. If not, a nice left handed bat to platoon with Ludwick. Also, FFS, get rid of Heisey, plz. if they are able to get rid of ludwicks contract then you take that 7.5 mill and add to it and make the sacrifice to retain Choo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I'm actually going to root for the Pirates. They don't have the rapist thing going on, and they mirror our futility in playoff wins and appearances. Plus, they beat us and I hate the stupid Cardinals. So for me, it's go Pirates! It's not the same as hating the Steelers. The Pirates have been more pathetic than the Reds and I can't help but root for the underdog. GO PIRATES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Dodgers for me. Haven't been in the same division in years and they're not shitsburgh or the bitchnals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Dodgers for me. Haven't been in the same division in years and they're not shitsburgh or the bitchnals... I suppose for me it's either/or. It's hard to REALLY care once your team is knocked out, especially the way the Reds bowed out without a whimper or a prayer. It was really pathetic. It's pretty hard to get pumped up over baseball period at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Go to fangraphs and look at the clutch factor. Vottos was one of the lowest on the team and by a good margin. Clutch is a BS stat from fangraphs Clutch does a good job of describing the past, but it does very little towards predicting the future. Simply because one player was clutch at one point does not mean they will continue to perform well in high-leverage situations (and vice versa). Very few players have the ability to be consistently clutch over the course of their careers, and choking in one season does not beget the same in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I suppose for me it's either/or. It's hard to REALLY care once your team is knocked out, especially the way the Reds bowed out without a whimper or a prayer. It was really pathetic. It's pretty hard to get pumped up over baseball period at this point. Pretty much. It's more of a "For whom shall I root if I flip past the game and there's nothing else on TV?" :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.