WOW, I don't believe it, "Blank" fell to 21!!!!

[FulcherVulcher33]

Kevin White, kids gonna be a beast, and Bud Dupree as a close second

[happyrid]

His athleticism IS off the charts.  The thing is that the kid likes playing with his hand in the dirt, chasing quarterbacks.  In a 3-4, I think he's pretty close to "can't miss".  He can't play end in a 4-3.  Period.  He MAY be ABLE to transition to linebacker.  And he MAY be WILLING to drop into coverage two-thirds of the time.  Forecasting success at a completely new position is a pretty big gamble when you're talking about a first round pick.  I suppose, in a 4-3, he could be the next Dwight Freeney, but you'd never find out if Gregory came to Cincinnati.  The prospect of a DE that doesn't play the run in a Marvin Lewis defense is LAUGHABLE.

 

If the Bengals were to take him, they wouldn't necessarily have to switch to a 3-4, but they'd at least have to commit to blitzing him off the edge.  That's something they just don't do.  When they commit linebackers, it's generally right up the gut.  Whether that's more scheme driven, or more about personnel deficiencies is something you'd have to ask the coaches.  The fact is, they haven't done it much in the last ten years.  

 

Agree with a lot of this, but I think they'd probably just put him at DE in obvious passing situations and he would potentially be worth the 1st round pick just as a pass rush specialist if he could get you ~10 sacks in that role.

 

I don't see him being particularly effective in coverage or even against the run as a 4-3 LB and agree he couldn't be an every down DE in our scheme. So he's not a great fit for us in the 4-3. But if he helps gets you off the field on 3rd downs, that's the money down and if he's as special a rusher as many claim, then I'd take him.

[MichaelWeston]

Why wouldnt he be effective in coverage?

[happyrid]

Why wouldnt he be effective in coverage?

 

Physics. There's a reason why you don't see any 6'5 cornerbacks or safeties. It's the same reason why there aren't many (any?) 6'5 guys who are great in coverage at LB either. (And it's a big reason why 6'5 tall 4-3 LBs are generally extremely rare.) Remember this is a legit NFL combine 6'5. He was listed at 6'6 in college.

 

He would likely struggle mightily trying to stick with Le'Veon Bell out of the backfield for example which is the type of thing we ask our LBs to do in coverage. 

[happyrid]

Just because I was curious, I looked it up and out of the ~200 or so NFL LBs there's only 9 who are 6'5 or taller:

 

Julius Peppers

Quinton Coples

Audie Cole

Chris McCain

Matt Shaugnessy

Trent Murphy

Aaron Lynch

Anthony Barr

Tyler Starr

 

I don't think any of those guys are known as good in pass coverage (and pretty much all of them are 3-4 OLBs who are rarely asked to cover and line up right on the line of scrimmage). So trying to shoe horn Gregory in as a 4-3 LB seems a little bit of a stretch.

[bengaled]

the choices don't have everything to do with the best players, as that would change my order. they're about what would help this team the most.

 

1. jameis winston

2. leonard williams

3. marcos mariotta

4. dante fowler

5. kevin white

6. danny shelton

7. amari cooper

8. bud dupree

9. la'el collins

10. randy gregory

 

i just can't imagine how impressive the impact would be to add jameis winston to this already loaded offense. it would be mind boggling.

[spicoli]

I'm sorry but LOL at Jameis Winston and Andrew Luck in the same sentence! they're not even close to being on the same level as pro prospects.

Byron Leftwich would be more comparable....and no, not because of skin color either, that's just who I see with that big wind up/delivery.

[|BlackJesus|]

Time will tell whether Winston is Jamarcus Russell off the field ... or Donovan McNabb on it.

 

It might be a 50/50 call at this point.

[Big Alice]

I'm sorry but LOL at Jameis Winston and Andrew Luck in the same sentence! they're not even close to being on the same level as pro prospects.

Byron Leftwich would be more comparable....and no, not because of skin color either, that's just who I see with that big wind up/delivery.

You're right about the first part. Jameis Winston and Andrew Luck are in different stratospheres. In terms of mechanics, athleticism, and poise, Luck was much better as a prospect.

The comparison to Byron Leftwich is good.

[WRAPradio]

I'm sorry but LOL at Jameis Winston and Andrew Luck in the same sentence! they're not even close to being on the same level as pro prospects.

Byron Leftwich would be more comparable....and no, not because of skin color either, that's just who I see with that big wind up/delivery.

 

 

I'd think more like Ben.  He's more mobile than Leftwich ever was.  I don't think he throws outside of the pocket as well as Ben though.

[JC]

Not sure where I said they were the same prospect. Plz correct me if I'm wrong. But yes jameis is the best pro quarterback prospect to come out since luck. Byron leftwich he is not. Byron couldn't move at all. Jameis has some mobility and ability to work within and move outside the pocket.

[|SF2|]

the choices don't have everything to do with the best players, as that would change my order. they're about what would help this team the most.
 
1. jameis winston
2. leonard williams
3. marcos mariotta
4. dante fowler
5. kevin white
6. danny shelton
7. amari cooper
8. bud dupree
9. la'el collins
10. randy gregory
 
i just can't imagine how impressive the impact would be to add jameis winston to this already loaded offense. it would be mind boggling.

Adding Andrew Luck would be awesome too. Neither is going to happen.

[spicoli]

I'd think more like Ben.  He's more mobile than Leftwich ever was.  I don't think he throws outside of the pocket as well as Ben though.

yeah, I think that's pretty accurate....so somewhere between Ben and Byron....but NOWHERE near Andrew Luck.

[spicoli]

Not sure where I said they were the same prospect. Plz correct me if I'm wrong. But yes jameis is the best pro quarterback prospect to come out since luck. Byron leftwich he is not. Byron couldn't move at all. Jameis has some mobility and ability to work within and move outside the pocket.

well, he's a lot closer to Leftwich than he is Andrew Luck.

as far as being the top prospect since Luck, I think Bortles was actually a little better prospect just because of his athleticism and quick delivery.

[Khatmandude]

Byron Leftwich?  Come on now.....he had to attend Marshall for a reason.  Winston was recruited by every major D-1 school practically....there's a reason for this.  I'd say that Winston is a much better prospect than Leftwich, who was only drafted where he was due to the QB class that year.  Carson was really the only legit QB to come out of college that year....hell, Kyle Boller and Rex Grossman were 1st Rd picks in 2003.  That's how bad the QB class was.  

 

I'd love to have Winston fall to 21, but would the Bengals even make the pick?  This franchise is the epitome of 'status quo' and don't make bold moves, ever.  More a reactive franchise than proactive, so unless they were forced to draft a QB, it isn't happening.  Not with Dalton under contract.  

 

So, my wish would be that Kevin White dropped to 21 and eventually took over as the #1, as the Bengals let AJ walk.  No WR is worth what AJ will be making......when is the last time a SB team had a WR making the most money on the team?  

 

I think Leonard Williams will be an average pro, nothing special.  This is all from watching 4 mins of highlight videos.  

[JC]

Besides being the same skin color and having a little bit of a hitch I don't see the leftwich comparison.

He has great touch on his throw. Good anticipation. Supposedly an incredible football mind. Cool as a cucumber in the pocket. Pro style footwork (which is vastly underrated).

There's no doubt he would have been drafted higher than bortles this year. If for no other reason than playing at a higher level against a higher level competition. Showing the ability to lead comebacks.

There's a reason why the bucs have been zero' din on jameis this entire time and have payed next to no attention to Marcus and Marcus would have gone above bortles last year had he come out.

[|schotzee|]

Leonard Williams, but he is probably the least likely to fall that far aside of Winston.

[bengaled]

Adding Andrew Luck would be awesome too. Neither is going to happen.

 

 

well thanks for pointing that out. :37:

[PatternMaster]

well, he's a lot closer to Leftwich than he is Andrew Luck.

as far as being the top prospect since Luck, I think Bortles was actually a little better prospect just because of his athleticism and quick delivery.

 

NFL.com compares him to Eli Manning, not quite sure where you are getting this Byron Leftwich comparison from, I've never heard that before. 

 

As far as Bortles being a better prospect, once again I don't know where you are getting your information from because that's just seems laughable. Bortles and Jameis are very similar in their height, weight, and numbers at the combine. If you compare their production in college it doesn't even come close, Winston only lost 1 game in 2 years, won a National Championship, and a Heisman...Bortles won the Beef O' Brady's bowl and Fiesta Bowl, clearly Winston is the better prospect of the two. 

[cnbengal]

Amari Cooper, it won't happen but i can dream.

[spicoli]

NFL.com compares him to Eli Manning, not quite sure where you are getting this Byron Leftwich comparison from, I've never heard that before. 
 
As far as Bortles being a better prospect, once again I don't know where you are getting your information from because that's just seems laughable. Bortles and Jameis are very similar in their height, weight, and numbers at the combine. If you compare their production in college it doesn't even come close, Winston only lost 1 game in 2 years, won a National Championship, and a Heisman...Bortles won the Beef O' Brady's bowl and Fiesta Bowl, clearly Winston is the better prospect of the two.

it's fine, you don't have to agree with me.....bottomline: I just don't see much in Winston, he's got bust written all over him IMO.

[Big Alice]

 
 
I'd think more like Ben.  He's more mobile than Leftwich ever was.  I don't think he throws outside of the pocket as well as Ben though.

Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - is more mobile than Byron Leftwich.

The best current quarterback I can think of to project Winston's ceiling is Phillip Rivers. He's fairly immobile, has a relatively slow delivery, and is über-emotional albeit in a way that his teammates respond fairly well to.

[WRAPradio]

Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - is more mobile than Byron Leftwich.

The best current quarterback I can think of to project Winston's ceiling is Phillip Rivers. He's fairly immobile, has a relatively slow delivery, and is über-emotional albeit in a way that his teammates respond fairly well to.

 

I wasn't even thinking of his ceiling, I was thinking about who his game resembles the most and who he reminds me of when he plays.  I don't think Rivers is a bad comparison, though I think JW has a stronger arm.  Now that Winston is focusing 100% on football I think coaches will refine his delivery and it should be a little more compact.  Honestly I never critiqued his delivery so I don't know how slow it is...I guess it never stood out to me as being slower than average, but I have heard many say it is a little slow.  Either way I do agree he's the best QB prospect since Luck a few years ago.  

[PatternMaster]

it's fine, you don't have to agree with me.....bottomline: I just don't see much in Winston, he's got bust written all over him IMO.

 

Is it the off the field stuff or his play on the field that leads you to think he will be a bust?

 

I can understand if you are concerned by his off the field behavior, I think it's a huge red flag and if I where in a position to draft him it would give me a lot of areas of concern.

 

However, if you watched him play football over the last two years it's hard to say he's not a very good QB, sure he can get better but he's pretty damn good. 

[spicoli]

Is it the off the field stuff or his play on the field that leads you to think he will be a bust?

Both.

The biggest problem I have with him on the field though is just the fact that he seems to be very slow in the pocket...slow to read, slow in getting plays to develop and slow in his release...just a bad combination for an NFL QB IMO....I get that he's much more athletic, but in the pocket he just reminds me so much of young Byron Leftwich....I just have a feeling that NFL defenses are gonna eat him up much the same way.