* RD 3 Bengals Select Nick Vigil, LB / RB *

[sois]

I think this pick was a favor to Haslett, the new LB coach who wants to upgrade the talent at the position. Just from watching this guy he reminds me a lot of LaVonte David from Tampa Bay, a smaller guy that can play sideline to sideline.

I like the pick, but I like the rat-tail even better. Dude looks like he should have a pet Falcon and he wears leather vest no with no shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots. 

+1 for Cross Race Comp

[SocalBengalEd]

Everyone is free to their opinion and who knows what will end up being correct, but I think criticizing his athleticism is a bit of a stretch. And it's not because he played RB. His quickness should be pretty obvious based upon his combine numbers:

-His 3-cone of 6.73 was the best at the combine by a LB. In fact, it blew away the field with the 2nd best time coming in at 6.98. Being .25 faster than the next best at the position is pretty impressive. It would have been the 4th-fastest WR time. Just a bit behind Braxton Miller who ran a 6.65.

-His short-shuttle of 4.00 was also the best at the combine amongst LBers. In fact, I think it's the best time by any LB in the past 8 or 9 years. It's even more impressive when you compare it to other positions. He was quicker than any WR at the combine. Braxton Miller had the best WR time at 4.07. 

Edit to Add: I went back to look at Luke Kuechly's combine because that was the guy Haslett and Guenther compared him to. Kuechly was faster in the 40 (4.58 vs. 4.71). Kuechly's 3-cone of 6.92 and short-shuttle of 4.12 were amongst the best in his draft class, but still came up well short of Vigil's numbers. 

ugh .   Now we are comparing him to Kuechly .    I've seen it all.   

[Jamie_B]

ugh .   Now we are comparing him to Kuechly .    I've seen it all.   

that comparison came out of Gunthner's mouth

[TimKrumrieFan]

This is by far my favorite pick of the draft. He may be the most unknown to average fans but he's probably got the most star potential of any of the guys and at a position we are dying for athleticism and speed. Guenther and Haslett getting a new extremely talented toy at LB is a great thing for this team and he gets a great veteran to watch all year in Dansby.

[alleycat]

Everyone is free to their opinion and who knows what will end up being correct, but I think criticizing his athleticism is a bit of a stretch. And it's not because he played RB. His quickness should be pretty obvious based upon his combine numbers:

-His 3-cone of 6.73 was the best at the combine by a LB. In fact, it blew away the field with the 2nd best time coming in at 6.98. Being .25 faster than the next best at the position is pretty impressive. It would have been the 4th-fastest WR time. Just a bit behind Braxton Miller who ran a 6.65.

-His short-shuttle of 4.00 was also the best at the combine amongst LBers. In fact, I think it's the best time by any LB in the past 8 or 9 years. It's even more impressive when you compare it to other positions. He was quicker than any WR at the combine. Braxton Miller had the best WR time at 4.07. 

Edit to Add: I went back to look at Luke Kuechly's combine because that was the guy Haslett and Guenther compared him to. Kuechly was faster in the 40 (4.58 vs. 4.71). Kuechly's 3-cone of 6.92 and short-shuttle of 4.12 were amongst the best in his draft class, but still came up well short of Vigil's numbers. 

And ALL of that translates directly to what's on tape - IF you know what you are looking at. It's obvious to me that many here don't have a clue. 

[alleycat]

This is by far my favorite pick of the draft. He may be the most unknown to average fans but he's probably got the most star potential of any of the guys and at a position we are dying for athleticism and speed. Guenther and Haslett getting a new extremely talented toy at LB is a great thing for this team and he gets a great veteran to watch all year in Dansby.

Ding ding ding. 

[|schotzee|]

that comparison came out of Gunthner's mouth

So what the heck would he know?

[LostInDaJungle]

Everyone is free to their opinion and who knows what will end up being correct, but I think criticizing his athleticism is a bit of a stretch. And it's not because he played RB. His quickness should be pretty obvious based upon his combine numbers:

-His 3-cone of 6.73 was the best at the combine by a LB. In fact, it blew away the field with the 2nd best time coming in at 6.98. Being .25 faster than the next best at the position is pretty impressive. It would have been the 4th-fastest WR time. Just a bit behind Braxton Miller who ran a 6.65.

-His short-shuttle of 4.00 was also the best at the combine amongst LBers. In fact, I think it's the best time by any LB in the past 8 or 9 years. It's even more impressive when you compare it to other positions. He was quicker than any WR at the combine. Braxton Miller had the best WR time at 4.07. 

Edit to Add: I went back to look at Luke Kuechly's combine because that was the guy Haslett and Guenther compared him to. Kuechly was faster in the 40 (4.58 vs. 4.71). Kuechly's 3-cone of 6.92 and short-shuttle of 4.12 were amongst the best in his draft class, but still came up well short of Vigil's numbers. 

Combine numbers be damned, I didn't see him use his agility to blow by guys. That was exactly the upcoming statement I was qualifying. Maybe that's a coachable thing. He also has real sloppy feet on tape. Maybe with some concentration on footwork and making the most out of those steps he'll be a monster. Good news, he has quick feet and mastered those drills in combine prep.

Keuchly also excelled at events like the broad jump, and vertical leap. Those are indicators of "fast-twitch" muscle. 38" for Keuchly, 31.5" for Vigil. Keuchly can out jump AJ Green by 3 1/2 inches. That's crazy. That ability to push off is what allows you to use your quicks to burst by a guy or squeeze through a hole. It's the ability to knock a ball down or contest a catch.

Keuchly was a top performer in almost every drill. The only one he wasn't was bench, and 27 reps ain't shabby. Hard to make the comparison by just looking at the cone drill.

As already conceded, Vigil's not terrible. He was already in rarefied air when he got the combine invite. Ask 10 people and get 10 opinions on what combine numbers matter at which positions. I look at tape and I don't get wowed. I'm seeing meat and potatoes instead of steak. A lunch pail instead of a pro-bowl. 

I see a guy who isn't going to win jump balls against Tyler Eifert, so I don't see the Keuchly type "cover" linebacker. Lets see what he can do with an NFL conditioning program though... I'm still a fan and I wish him well, just wasn't thrilled with the pick.

[alleycat]

You know Bengals fans have been spoiled when they can whine about the 88th pick in the draft not being an obvious pro bowler or having the full profile of a top 10 pick. 

What's even funnier is to hear them applaud and rave -- and then completely ignore the pedestrian numbers of the guy who we took a round later, was the 15th DT taken overall, and was passed on over 120 times before we got our "steal."

It just goes to show how much these ridiculous pundits and their arbitrary, uninformed rankings go on to influence long term perceptions of players' worth. 

[EnglishBengal]

In the vid against Boise State, he doesn't look that bad.  I see a poor man's Luke Kuechly (less polish then Kuechly).  But he does ALOT of different things and seems have good instincts.  Hopefully he can add 10 lbs or so and become stronger at the point of attack, coz he can get swallowed up occasionally by blockers.  But on the whole, plenty of potential to work with and should see plenty of playing time as a rookie.

[alleycat]

In the vid against Boise State, he doesn't look that bad.  I see a poor man's Luke Kuechly (less polish then Kuechly).  But he does ALOT of different things and seems have good instincts.  Hopefully he can add 10 lbs or so and become stronger at the point of attack, coz he can get swallowed up occasionally by blockers.  But on the whole, plenty of potential to work with and should see plenty of playing time as a rookie.

one of the most unathletic linebackers in recent combine history (5.0+ 40) is now a perennial pro-bowler. His name is Vontaze Burfict. 

Instincts are everything. Couple that with all-time best level agility and COD, and youve hit the jackpot. 

[happyrid]

ugh .   Now we are comparing him to Kuechly .    I've seen it all.   

Both Haslett and Guenther made the comparison, not me. But I'm sure they value your opinion.

 

Is his strength his movement, and is his physical strength the biggest area he needs to improve?

        Haslett: “He’s got great movement. Like I said, he can go sideline to sideline. He has great instincts for the ball and he knows when to go downhill. Is he a killer tackler? I think he’s a good enough tackler to get them down. I don’t think he’s going to look like Vontaze or Rey, but I don’t think too many do. What the process was, I looked at him first, made a big cut-up, a long tape. And then we go in as a staff and look at it. First thing Paul said, ‘That looks like that guy.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, he kind of does look like that guy.’”

 

What guy do you mean?

        Guenther: “Like a local prospect that went early in the draft a few years ago (Luke Kuechly). I did not say the name (laughs). I don’t want to put too much pressure on the kid, but that’s what he reminded me of.”

        Haslett: “I mean running-wise and athletic-wise, he jumps out at you like that.”

        Guenther: “That’s what coaches like to do; they like turn on a player on tape and compare him to somebody they’ve seen before. Everybody does it; it’s natural. The scouts do the same thing, everybody does it. He is his own player and obviously coming in here, he’s going to have to work his butt off for a chance.”

[Jamie_B]

All I know is that both sides of this argument that are speaking in absolutes are going to look even more foolish than they already do depending on how this kid pans out or doesnt pan out.

[Le Tigre]

The guy isn't terrible... 3rd round or not, he was slated to be one of 255 players selected from thousands.
By the same token, there's nothing in his highlights that jumps out at you. He's not particularly quick, not particularly fast, and he's a solid if unspectacular tackler.  Bad angles to the sideline, sloppy feet. Any criticism of his athleticism is going to be met with the "He also played RB" retort, but he wasn't very good at it. I don't really see him using his agility to blow by guys, nor his strength to push them around. It seems he sees the field well, but he's about to step to another level, with guys who see the field well and are tremendous athletes.
The Bengals got a ton of praise for sticking to their board, but this was a reach IMHO. Maybe he was just the guy they liked best out of that middle cut of LB's. That's fine in it's pwn way. Many people wanted Billings (who DOES wow with his tape) and at the end of the day which one of them went in which round is irrelevant. I hate it much less considering the value we got out of the next two rounds.

We'll see what he grows into, but I'm just not thrilled with the pick.

A Brownie in my office was going on and on today about their LB pick, Schobert. "Steal of the draft". Had every description we are seeing for Vigil. He equally panned Vigil as a "small conference nobody". 

We both agreed that 3rd and 4th round picks are a complete guess. 

[PatternMaster]

In the vid against Boise State, he doesn't look that bad.  I see a poor man's Luke Kuechly (less polish then Kuechly).  But he does ALOT of different things and seems have good instincts.  Hopefully he can add 10 lbs or so and become stronger at the point of attack, coz he can get swallowed up occasionally by blockers.  But on the whole, plenty of potential to work with and should see plenty of playing time as a rookie.

If we can use some of the big guys like Peko, Hardison, Billings, Atkins, and Maualuga to eat up blockers and let him use his superior COD ability to go sideline to sideline this kid can be a tackling machine. The potential is there, staying healthy and learning the defense are all that's in his way. 

[MichaelWeston]

+1 for Cross Race Comp

His lateral agility and vision reminds me of Jeremy Lin or Bruce Lee. 

[sois]

His lateral agility and vision reminds me of Jeremy Lin or Bruce Lee. 

I see a lot of Dat Nguyen in his game.

[PatternMaster]

 

I see a lot of Dat Nguyen in his game.

Dat Dude or Dat Nguyen

[B.A.B.]

If we can use some of the big guys like Peko, Hardison, Billings, Atkins, and Maualuga to eat up blockers and let him use his superior COD ability to go sideline to sideline this kid can be a tackling machine. The potential is there, staying healthy and learning the defense are all that's in his way. 

Sorry but he's gonna have to put on some size of he's gonna make an impact. I saw a lot of kinda arm tackles in that video on here. He might have good times quickness but I don't see him reacting al that fast. 

[Enon Bengal]

Ted Nugent?

[alleycat]

It's like all the people who've hated Dalton (and been proven laughably inept on that account) have found their new whipping boy - on whom they've also staked laughable claims yet again). 

Apparently, a woeful inability to understand what's happening on a football field DOES translate across positions.

[WRAPradio]

It's like all the people who've hated Dalton (and been proven laughably inept on that account) have found their new whipping boy - on whom they've also staked laughable claims yet again). 

Apparently, a woeful inability to understand what's happening on a football field DOES translate across positions.

Dalton gave people reason to question how he could play in the playoffs. This dude hasn't played an NFL down yet. 

[alleycat]

Dalton gave people reason to question how he could play in the playoffs. This dude hasn't played an NFL down yet. 

I would have thought that another team wide shit show failure in the playoffs would have led to an awakening about Dalton.  We should have been so lucky for him to play.

As for the second comment, I rest my case. 

[TimKrumrieFan]

Sorry but he's gonna have to put on some size of he's gonna make an impact. I saw a lot of kinda arm tackles in that video on here. He might have good times quickness but I don't see him reacting al that fast. 

Supposedly he's already up like 7 or 8 pounds from his college days already. The strength and conditioning world he is about to jump into is much better than his Mountain West schools setup. I see no reason the guy doesn't add another 5-10 this year which then would put him at a very legit size for a 4-3 backer.

[SocalBengalEd]

I don't think size an issue with guy.  6 2 235 is fine for today's NFL.