BengalFanInTO Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 6 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said: The real thorn here - Adam Jones. You take his $8M - 4th highest cap hit on the team - off the books, and a world of possibilities open up.You still have 3 1st round draft picks in the wings. And he's a Ray Rice - a dude you can cut with a moral excuse when really he's just old, expensive, and embarrassing. Correct. Cutting Adam Jones (who is 33 and a bag of dicks) and Rey Maualuga (who is 30, sucks and played only 30% of last year's snaps on defense) and you pick up $10 million in cap room. That essentially covers the re-signing of Kirkpatrick and leaves you all the money you started with to make improvements and/or re-sign players of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Madieu Superstar said: Even if you roll over about 6-8 mill (generous) for extensions, they still have room left. A lot more than 2-3 million. Getting rid of even one of Maualuga/Pac frees up even more. Why they can't make these moves tells me everything I need to know about the incompetents who run things here. It kills me how teams let go of players that aren't performing (like AP, Brandon Marshall, etc.) for the betterment of their team...but we won't let go of Pac, Peko. MJ or Maualuga b/c we're loyal. NE gets rid of players in their prime and we won't get rid of players years past their prime that are holding the team back. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEarl Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Lost does a great analysis of the situation, as usual. It all comes down to one truth about the Browns. They would like to win, but they will always make money. We shouldn't expect anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 The last paragraph is such an important point. Teams roll over money so that they can spend it when they have arrived within their window of making a run at a super bowl. The Bengals were in that window. Instead of going all out, they decided to keep rolling money over. The window looks to be closed for now. AJ Green is 29. I'd say he probably has another 4 prime years left, barring injury. Next year looks bleak. When does the window open again? What was the roll over money for? I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. We lost two guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. As a unit, the five guys that line up on Sundays have to play better than the five that were there last year. That's not a terribly high bar. At the risk of sounding all "sour grapes", Andrew Whitworth is not the same guy he was three or four years ago. That doesn't mean he's easily replaced, but it's still possible. As for Kevin Zeitler, in a vacuum, he has performed well. You're still, though, talking about the position (guard) that is arguably the least important on then team.I'm interested to see what the Bengals have up their sleeve. Surely they intended to re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick. The timing of the LaFell deal might indicate that they did NOT know for certain there'd b space to re-sign him. If you figure they wanted Whit and Zeitler back at around $10mil/yr, subtracting LaFell's $5mil would leave them about $15mil to repair the holes.Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, Big Alice said: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. We lost two guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. As a unit, the five guys that line up on Sundays have to play better than the five that were there last year. That's not a terribly high bar. At the risk of sounding all "sour grapes", Andrew Whitworth is not the same guy he was three or four years ago. That doesn't mean he's easily replaced, but it's still possible. As for Kevin Zeitler, in a vacuum, he has performed well. You're still, though, talking about the position (guard) that is arguably the least important on then team. I'm interested to see what the Bengals have up their sleeve. Surely they intended to re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick. The timing of the LaFell deal might indicate that they did NOT know for certain there'd b space to re-sign him. If you figure they wanted Whit and Zeitler back at around $10mil/yr, subtracting LaFell's $5mil would leave them about $15mil to repair the holes. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com I'm a pessimist and I'll assume that they don't really have anything up their sleeve. I agree about Whitworth (particularly is sub-par run-blocking) but it's the ppl that are replacing him that infuriate me. Ogbuehi may have potential but through college and the pros he has never actually produced at a high level. I'm not going to assume that the potential is going to be realized soon. I disagree about guards. The interior of the line helps enormously in the run game. I don't think Zeitler was great, but he was surrounded by bums. Again, I don't see anyone special replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said: I'm a pessimist and I'll assume that they don't really have anything up their sleeve. I agree about Whitworth (particularly is sub-par run-blocking) but it's the ppl that are replacing him that infuriate me. Ogbuehi may have potential but through college and the pros he has never actually produced at a high level. I'm not going to assume that the potential is going to be realized soon. I disagree about guards. The interior of the line helps enormously in the run game. I don't think Zeitler was great, but he was surrounded by bums. Again, I don't see anyone special replacing him. I would consider myself a pessimist as well when it comes to sports, but in this case I'm really hoping the reason they didn't even try to resign Zeitler is because Westerman is ready. I know nothing about Westerman, but the draft gurus and our coaches were super excited we were able to get him. Now, I take that with HUGE grain of salt, but hopefully this kid can play a little bit. Right now we have an unknown and RG (Westerman) and two knowns at tackle (Ogbuehi and Fisher/Winston). The knows are really bad and hopefully they improve a lot this year. The sky isn't exactly falling, but it's looking a little dim right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarpenter62 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, WRAPradio said: I would consider myself a pessimist as well when it comes to sports, but in this case I'm really hoping the reason they didn't even try to resign Zeitler is because Westerman is ready. I know nothing about Westerman, but the draft gurus and our coaches were super excited we were able to get him. Now, I take that with HUGE grain of salt, but hopefully this kid can play a little bit. Right now we have an unknown and RG (Westerman) and two knowns at tackle (Ogbuehi and Fisher/Winston). The knows are really bad and hopefully they improve a lot this year. The sky isn't exactly falling, but it's looking a little dim right now. I hope you are correct about Westerman, but the infuriating thing about that is the fact that they didn't get him any snaps last year. Why? Was he not ready to play in those all important last couple of games for a team that was going nowhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 43 minutes ago, rcarpenter62 said: I hope you are correct about Westerman, but the infuriating thing about that is the fact that they didn't get him any snaps last year. Why? Was he not ready to play in those all important last couple of games for a team that was going nowhere? Probably for the same reason they chose to activate a 3rd string RB over their first round pick. It boils down to the fact that Marvin Lewis is mentally challenged and would be exposed as such if the local media wasn't just a bunch of sycophants. Btw, how great did those special teams look after Peerman came back!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, rcarpenter62 said: I hope you are correct about Westerman, but the infuriating thing about that is the fact that they didn't get him any snaps last year. Why? Was he not ready to play in those all important last couple of games for a team that was going nowhere? Yeah, there's no excuse at all for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInDaJungle Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, WRAPradio said: I'm really hoping the reason they didn't even try to resign Zeitler is because Westerman is ready. If we are a better team with Westerman, then Westerman should have been starting last year. I don't think you can see this but anything but a step back for a unit that needed consistency. Even past that, are you looking forward to Bodine and Bolling mentoring the rookies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Big Alice said: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. We lost two guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. As a unit, the five guys that line up on Sundays have to play better than the five that were there last year. That's not a terribly high bar. At the risk of sounding all "sour grapes", Andrew Whitworth is not the same guy he was three or four years ago. That doesn't mean he's easily replaced, but it's still possible. As for Kevin Zeitler, in a vacuum, he has performed well. You're still, though, talking about the position (guard) that is arguably the least important on then team. I'm interested to see what the Bengals have up their sleeve. Surely they intended to re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick. The timing of the LaFell deal might indicate that they did NOT know for certain there'd b space to re-sign him. If you figure they wanted Whit and Zeitler back at around $10mil/yr, subtracting LaFell's $5mil would leave them about $15mil to repair the holes. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com The Bengals had no intention on re-signing Zietler, they stated as much multiple times. The FO doesn't want spend money on vets because they are too expensive, that's why they value comp picks, it allows them to fill the roster with a relatively cheap labor force. Why do you think the Bengals have something up their sleeve? They are going wait until next week and see who is desperate enough to play for the Bengals for peanuts. When FA's are faced with the option of the CFL or the Bengals we should see some activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 I'm a pessimist and I'll assume that they don't really have anything up their sleeve. I agree about Whitworth (particularly is sub-par run-blocking) but it's the ppl that are replacing him that infuriate me. Ogbuehi may have potential but through college and the pros he has never actually produced at a high level. I'm not going to assume that the potential is going to be realized soon. I disagree about guards. The interior of the line helps enormously in the run game. I don't think Zeitler was great, but he was surrounded by bums. Again, I don't see anyone special replacing him. I'm not saying that guards have no value.However, if you were building an offense from the ground up and had the opportunity to choose one Pro Bowl-caliber player for any position group, where would Guard be on that list. For me, probably just above Tight End at the bottom of the list.Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 The Bengals had no intention on re-signing Zietler, they stated as much multiple times. The FO doesn't want spend money on vets because they are too expensive, that's why they value comp picks, it allows them to fill the roster with a relatively cheap labor force. Why do you think the Bengals have something up their sleeve? They are going wait until next week and see who is desperate enough to play for the Bengals for peanuts. When FA's are faced with the option of the CFL or the Bengals we should see some activity.All of that shit you just said? Untrue.Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatternMaster Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 54 minutes ago, Big Alice said: All of that shit you just said? Untrue. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Just because you don't it to be true doesn't mean it not true....http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/10/14878494/report-bengals-did-not-attempt-to-bring-back-kevin-zeitler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Big Alice said: All of that shit you just said? Untrue. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Yeah Alice, with this know-it-all, the phrase "1993-2002 called. They want their rote bellyaching back" is a dead ringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Big Alice said: I know I'm in the minority, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. We lost two guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. As a unit, the five guys that line up on Sundays have to play better than the five that were there last year. That's not a terribly high bar. At the risk of sounding all "sour grapes", Andrew Whitworth is not the same guy he was three or four years ago. That doesn't mean he's easily replaced, but it's still possible. As for Kevin Zeitler, in a vacuum, he has performed well. You're still, though, talking about the position (guard) that is arguably the least important on then team. I'm interested to see what the Bengals have up their sleeve. Surely they intended to re-sign Whitworth, Zeitler, and Kirkpatrick. The timing of the LaFell deal might indicate that they did NOT know for certain there'd b space to re-sign him. If you figure they wanted Whit and Zeitler back at around $10mil/yr, subtracting LaFell's $5mil would leave them about $15mil to repair the holes. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com We lost the 2 BEST guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. I think you conveniently missed that. If our d-line didn't get enough pressure, do you think letting Atkins and Dunlap would fix that problem or make it even worse? Same theory here. Whit and Zeitler leaving just makes a mediocre line even worse. The mental gymnastics some people go through to praise everything Bengals is truly unreal at times. 1 hour ago, Big Alice said: All of that shit you just said? Untrue. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com Nah, there are plenty of reports that we didn't even give Zeitler a single offer this offseason. Not one. That kind of sucks to hear and definitely goes against your theory of them intending to re-sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Maybe we can get a Melvin Tuten type in round 7 to not develop and he can play LT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said: We lost the 2 BEST guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. I think you conveniently missed that. If our d-line didn't get enough pressure, do you think letting Atkins and Dunlap would fix that problem or make it even worse? Same theory here. Whit and Zeitler leaving just makes a mediocre line even worse. The mental gymnastics some people go through to praise everything Bengals is truly unreal at times. Nah, there are plenty of reports that we didn't even give Zeitler a single offer this offseason. Not one. That kind of sucks to hear and definitely goes against your theory of them intending to re-sign him. You are correct in the Zietler point, but I don't think that's what he was saying wasn't true from pm. We both know the Bengals philosophy when it comes to Guards, and they had no plan to make him the 5th or 6th highest paid lineman in the league, and before the end of the season they were well aware of that. And yes, not a single offer this off-season, but I know for a real fact that he's had offers over the last 18 months. It's the rest of that not paying veterans alternative facts stuff that he was saying, about not paying veterans that was and is totally untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, kennethmw said: You are correct in the Zietler point, but I don't think that's what he was saying wasn't true from pm. We both know the Bengals philosophy when it comes to Guards, and they had no plan to make him the 5th or 6th highest paid lineman in the league, and before the end of the season they were well aware of that. And yes, not a single offer this off-season, but I know for a real fact that he's had offers over the last 18 months. It's the rest of that not paying veterans alternative facts stuff that he was saying, about not paying veterans that was and is totally untrue. Well he was right about 2 of his other points too. The Bengals really do value comp picks (look no further than Hobson putting out the article making it seem like we made out like bandits getting 2 comp picks opposed to 2 of our best players), and the point he made about us not getting into free agency until way late then we like to dumpster dive or sign guys that were cap casualties. That's why I disagree when Alice said "all that shit you just said, untrue" because 3 out of his 4 points are absolutely true. It may not be positive, sunshine, and rainbows, but everything he said was sadly correct outside of us not paying vets. We do pay our developed players/vets, just not every single time. But you can't fault the Bengals for that because it's impossible in a salary capped league with free agency where some guys do get "overpaid" by outside teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said: Well he was right about 2 of his other points too. The Bengals really do value comp picks (look no further than Hobson putting out the article making it seem like we made out like bandits getting 2 comp picks opposed to 2 of our best players), and the point he made about us not getting into free agency until way late then we like to dumpster dive or sign guys that were cap casualties. That's why I disagree when Alice said "all that shit you just said, untrue" because 3 out of his 4 points are absolutely true. It may not be positive, sunshine, and rainbows, but everything he said was sadly correct outside of us not paying vets. We do pay our developed players/vets, just not every single time. But you can't fault the Bengals for that because it's impossible in a salary capped league with free agency where some guys do get "overpaid" by outside teams. I see those as half truths at best, and mostly Bullshit being perpetrated by the pessimists among us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpoore Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 I would consider myself a pessimist as well when it comes to sports, but in this case I'm really hoping the reason they didn't even try to resign Zeitler is because Westerman is ready. I know nothing about Westerman, but the draft gurus and our coaches were super excited we were able to get him. Now, I take that with HUGE grain of salt, but hopefully this kid can play a little bit. Right now we have an unknown and RG (Westerman) and two knowns at tackle (Ogbuehi and Fisher/Winston). The knows are really bad and hopefully they improve a lot this year. The sky isn't exactly falling, but it's looking a little dim right now.Im assuming johnson is ahead of westerman on the depth chart.Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Big Alice said: I'm not saying that guards have no value. However, if you were building an offense from the ground up and had the opportunity to choose one Pro Bowl-caliber player for any position group, where would Guard be on that list. For me, probably just above Tight End at the bottom of the list. Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com I'd place RB at the bottom of the list, no doubt about it. That's why I can't understand the Fournette love on here. If you have a good line, pretty much any RB you put back there will be successful. Perhaps if we had a center worth a damn, we wouldn't all be so worried about replacing a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdrdoom Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Big Alice said: We lost two guys of an offensive line that was pretty bad. As a unit, the five guys that line up on Sundays have to play better than the five that were there last year. That's not a terribly high bar. I just want to point to a statistic that proves how flawed this type of logic really is. The Bengals gave up 41 sacks last year. Zeitler and Whit combined for 1 of them. This is just a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Hell, it's actually throwing the baby out instead of the bathwater! "hey our line wasn't good so it's totally cool that we lost the 2 best pieces!" is very poor logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 Someone explain to me how Geno Atkins plays a premier position but the one responsible for blocking people like Geno Atkins is unimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 11, 2017 Report Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, omgdrdoom said: I just want to point to a statistic that proves how flawed this type of logic really is. The Bengals gave up 41 sacks last year. Zeitler and Whit combined for 1 of them. This is just a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Hell, it's actually throwing the baby out instead of the bathwater! "hey our line wasn't good so it's totally cool that we lost the 2 best pieces!" is very poor logic. Considering Whitworth gave up 4 last year, my guess is that's a Bullshit stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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