Jump to content

Realistic O-Line expectations? (again?, lol, yes)


Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

They'd brought in bargains, scrubs and retreads.  Karras and Collins are on an entirely different level than any of those additions from last year - hell, any recent year.  Either one of them would've been the best OL pickup in FA in a long time & it's not even a close competition. 

 

Now, would either have signed here without seeing this team in SB contention? Probably not, but the team still went out and got real NFL talent for the OL.  It's not about how many bodies they threw at the problem while crossing their fingers.  This year they didn't bring in maybes or projects or hopefuls, they went and got guys that have proven they can play.

 

Think there was a clear change in philosophy there, not sure what you attribute that to?

 

all good points to be honest. would they ahve signed here without the SB? ehhh. probably, would they ahve signed here if we went 4-13? no, won 1 playoff game + burrow factor? possibly. 2 playoff games lost to KC? id bet they do still. 

 

there are like 6 top notch tackles in the entire NFL. saying they brought in bargains isnt fair. it pretends there was 15 top notch guys available, affordable, and ready to sign here, and they just didnt want to.

 

who is coming to a losing team with a rookie torn ACL/MCL QB coming back possibly on time from injury? i mean thats a shit option. not one the team can snap its fingers and overcome.

 

they did their best without potentially making a huge financial mistake. Suafilo rated better than Zeitler in pass blocking the prior year, and was a year younger. 

 

fans have the benefit of hindsight to make accusations and claims, if handed nameless data and reasoning i feel like the same fans would make the same decision every time. "player X is younger, cheaper, and was a 5% better pass blocker the previous year than player Y" 

 

its not 2002, the bengals have been making wise, informed, reasonable decisions, but fans act like they turned down prime Joe Thomas at league minimum for a 7th rounder to save a buck. and thats just not what happened.

 

i hope that makes sense, i tend to ramble.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go- we may be talking past each other so this will be my last follow-up. I am a bit of a small school o-line skeptic. I didn’t want Radunz last year. I think the leap from small school to successful NFL o-line is extra tricky. My point was, I put more stock in Volson making that leap literally because two guys are now on this line who made that leap and are uniquely positioned to help him. I would have very little hope/expectation for Volson on a line like last years. I have more hope/expectation for him on this one - in large part based on who is on it. You may think that’s a stupid view. No worries, such is life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Things have changed for the better this offseason. In prior years, instead of bringing in Karras, Kappa, and Collins, they would have kept Hopkins, re-signed Spain and Reiff. Then said they got to the Super Bowl with Adeniji and Prince starting and had developing youngsters in Carman, Smith, and Hill. So they had plenty of guys and it was just a matter of figuring out the right combinations. 

 

Now they have realized quantity isn't a substitute for quality. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

... I would be ok with bringing Spain back for cheap as a backup though.

 

Him and Burrow work out together in the off-season, so there's at least a relationship there. 

I think he and Ogonjobi (sp) are on speed dial if injuries strike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2022 at 12:25 AM, T-Dub said:

 

 

They'd brought in bargains, scrubs and retreads.  Karras and Collins are on an entirely different level than any of those additions from last year - hell, any recent year.  Either one of them would've been the best OL pickup in FA in a long time & it's not even a close competition. 

 

Now, would either have signed here without seeing this team in SB contention? Probably not, but the team still went out and got real NFL talent for the OL.  It's not about how many bodies they threw at the problem while crossing their fingers.  This year they didn't bring in maybes or projects or hopefuls, they went and got guys that have proven they can play.

 

Think there was a clear change in philosophy there, not sure what you attribute that to?

In their defense they took Cedric Ogebuehi and Jake Fisher 1 and 2 in 2015.  Busts.  
 

They signed Cordy Glenn who wasn’t bad but obviously something happened between him and somebody in the organization which resulted in his “prolonged” injury.  
 

At that point nobody they had picked up or drafted high for 4 straight years after losing 2 high quality starters panned out.  Price was a bust as well.  
 

Andre Smith was pure desperation at that point in 2019.   He was better than anyone else which really shows how bad it got.  
 

Our only serviceable players were  supposed to be backups and practice squad projects until Jonah. 
 

The Giants are living the same nightmare we did.  It takes years to fix a trash Oline.  Like Go said, you have to have quality veterans who know the system around to train up new guys.  We had nothing of the sort for 5 years.  
 

And the reality is until now, no quality o line FA (which are few and far between) wanted to come here. That is the reality we faced.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SF2 said:

In their defense they took Cedric Ogebuehi and Jake Fisher 1 and 2 in 2015.  Busts.  
 

They signed Cordy Glenn who wasn’t bad but obviously something happened between him and somebody in the organization which resulted in his “prolonged” injury.  
 

At that point nobody they had picked up or drafted high for 4 straight years after losing 2 high quality starters panned out.  Price was a bust as well.  
 

Andre Smith was pure desperation at that point in 2019.   He was better than anyone else which really shows how bad it got.  
 

Our only serviceable players were  supposed to be backups and practice squad projects until Jonah. 
 

The Giants are living the same nightmare we did.  It takes years to fix a trash Oline.  Like Go said, you have to have quality veterans who know the system around to train up new guys.  We had nothing of the sort for 5 years.  
 

And the reality is until now, no quality o line FA (which are few and far between) wanted to come here. That is the reality we faced.  

 

 

Cordy Glenn IIRC had been "battling injuries" when they traded for him. He was never an answer.  

 

Of couse Ced and Fisher were busts, or maybe just had shit coaching?  But either way, ok, that happens sometimes.  What doesn't have to happen is pretending they aren't busts, letting your vet walk, then running them out there to get destroyed week in and week out.  Everyone outside the building knew they couldn't play and the team refused to admit it,

 

This is all spilled milk at this point but the OL didn't turn to shit on accident.  It was a series of poor decisions.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Cordy Glenn IIRC had been "battling injuries" when they traded for him. He was never an answer.  

 

Of couse Ced and Fisher were busts, or maybe just had shit coaching?  But either way, ok, that happens sometimes.  What doesn't have to happen is pretending they aren't busts, letting your vet walk, then running them out there to get destroyed week in and week out.  Everyone outside the building knew they couldn't play and the team refused to admit it,

 

This is all spilled milk at this point but the OL didn't turn to shit on accident.  It was a series of poor decisions.

IIRC, wasn't Ogbuehi injured when we drafted him? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Cordy Glenn IIRC had been "battling injuries" when they traded for him. He was never an answer.  

 

Of couse Ced and Fisher were busts, or maybe just had shit coaching?  But either way, ok, that happens sometimes.  What doesn't have to happen is pretending they aren't busts, letting your vet walk, then running them out there to get destroyed week in and week out.  Everyone outside the building knew they couldn't play and the team refused to admit it,

 

This is all spilled milk at this point but the OL didn't turn to shit on accident.  It was a series of poor decisions.

 

this whole damn post is the absolute truth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2022 at 8:14 AM, Jamie_B said:

 

im going to assume thats not a paid position judging by everything i see here.

 

On 6/15/2022 at 12:41 PM, BlackJesus said:

... I would be ok with bringing Spain back for cheap as a backup though.

 

Him and Burrow work out together in the off-season, so there's at least a relationship there. 

 

yes please, can backup multiple spots, good atittude, calls opponents out on T-Boyd instagram videos post game. checking all my boxes here.

 

1 hour ago, membengal said:

How far have we come in a year?

 

 

 

how dramatic. its "wild" that backups arent locked in starters? that mediocre backups lost jobs to draft picks and free agents?

 

RR was a known short term plug in, his removal was both planned and expected, and Carmen is likely 90% the starter currently. back to his natural side, in shape in camp and rolling fine. he played like shit last year, but he came in fat, got moved to entire new side of the ball let alone the new position, and was injured halfway through the season as well. only two guys on that list were ever expected to be 2022 starters and 2 very very likely will be.

 

its crazy that so many dudes got injured, and we started the season basically with backups in spots. sua'filo injury was so early, and dominos fell everywhere from there.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

no idea

 

not that i care if he gets paid, but its a level of judgment on my end if he is just a guy willing to volunteer or if his opinion is worth someone paying him for, lol

 

it can be hard to tell these days.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last year the left side of the line seemed the solid side and I worried mor about the right.  This year (as long as we're lucky on the injury front) I feel like the improvement there is real and substantial.  Carman at LG is my biggest concern.  The potential is there, nut just feels like there's something missing.  One the other hand, while I have very little reason, I feel cautiously optimistic about Volson (especially long-term).  I've always felt Williams was a solid OL piece, but I've worried whether he's elite on the edge in space protecting the Franchise' blind side.  I've always thought he could be elite inside at a guard slot.  For mow though, he's the best we have at LT.

 

Depth?  Carman &/or Volson will be there and I'm still pretty high on Smith's development. Hill strike me as an adequate backup, but I get the feeling he's somebody will really have to fight to keep his roster spot.  Probably just me, but I look at Prince and especially Adeniji at pretty much fungible.  I'd bring at least two of Spain, Reiff & Hopkins to press the last three (if they can get them at a reasonable price.  Would like an experience tackle in reserve like Reiff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, snarkster said:

Would like an experience tackle in reserve like Reiff.

 

Bringing him back would be great if he'll take 2nd string money but  I suspect he's content to kick back for now & wait for some team to need him as a starter.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, snarkster said:

Last year the left side of the line seemed the solid side and I worried mor about the right.  This year (as long as we're lucky on the injury front) I feel like the improvement there is real and substantial.  Carman at LG is my biggest concern.  The potential is there, nut just feels like there's something missing.  One the other hand, while I have very little reason, I feel cautiously optimistic about Volson (especially long-term).  I've always felt Williams was a solid OL piece, but I've worried whether he's elite on the edge in space protecting the Franchise' blind side.  I've always thought he could be elite inside at a guard slot.  For mow though, he's the best we have at LT.

 

Depth?  Carman &/or Volson will be there and I'm still pretty high on Smith's development. Hill strike me as an adequate backup, but I get the feeling he's somebody will really have to fight to keep his roster spot.  Probably just me, but I look at Prince and especially Adeniji at pretty much fungible.  I'd bring at least two of Spain, Reiff & Hopkins to press the last three (if they can get them at a reasonable price.  Would like an experience tackle in reserve like Reiff.

 

the left seemed solid because the right was so damn bad they just attacked the right and left the left alone.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/17/2022 at 4:36 PM, fluhartz said:

 

this whole damn post is the absolute truth. 

He played 13 games for us the first year and was WAY fucking better than Ogbuehi. No, he wasn’t a long term answer, he was a short term answer to a big problem.  

Ogbuehi was a first rounder on everyone’s draft board. Bad luck. 
 

Allowin both Whit and Zeitler to leave the next year was the monumental fuck up.  

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, SF2 said:

He played 13 games for us the first year and was WAY fucking better than Ogbuehi. No, he wasn’t a long term answer, he was a short term answer to a big problem.  

Ogbuehi was a first rounder on everyone’s draft board. Bad luck. 
 

Allowin both Whit and Zeitler to leave the next year was the monumental fuck up.  

 

 

yeah, the post I agreed with said all of what you are saying. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm glad the Bengals drafted behind Carman.  He is still a very high risk/high reward player.  He's built for the game, but....has had motivation issues and is a 22 year old dude that has already had back surgery.  I feel better about Carman improving his game enough to be decent this year, but I don't have a lot of confidence he'll make it through the season without the back issue popping up again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

22 year old dude that has already had back surgery.

 

... If there was one area that scares me the most with an OL, it would be issues with the back.

 

Sort of like a WR with a bad achilles or a QB with rotator cuff problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

 

... If there was one area that scares me the most with an OL, it would be issues with the back.

 

Sort of like a WR with a bad achilles or a QB with rotator cuff problems.

 

I really hope we're over drafting injured players.  Out of 200 top tier healthy prospects, why on Earth would you draft a guy that's already hurt?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...