USN Bengal Posted October 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='719149' date='Oct 29 2008, 07:33 AM']I found this comment absolutely comical. It has to be the quote of the year, thus far... far out-reaching "I'm 1/3rd indian"... Granted, Marvin has only been here since 2003. Mike's been here, in charge, since 1990. So, if he's "smart enought to know why the team is losing" then one of two scenarios is occurring: 1) He doesn't give a damn as long as he's turning a healthy profit. 2) He doesn't know how to fix it. Go, which is it. You state the above, so if the guy knows "why the team is losing" over the past 18 years why hasn't it been fixed? And, realize there was no name calling, etc. in my post. No blasting anybody. Critique yes, blistering no.[/quote] Damn good points Vol_Bengal, and is pretty much irrefutable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='719114' date='Oct 28 2008, 11:56 PM']no. im sorry if I confused..., but the thread is about marvin being fired. marvin wasnt here then, so how could it have anything to do with him needing or not needing to be fired?[/quote] Agreed. While, I'm in favor of coaching change including Lewis. You can't use what happened up to 2002 against him, but you can't let it be an excuse either. Evaluate the situation. 2005 Division winner. That has regressed each year since. That's enough to get coaches fired in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='719079' date='Oct 28 2008, 11:07 PM']why, again, would marvin be fired?[/quote] Because he is 0-8 WITH HIS TEAM, a team that gave up on him in the second half last Sunday. It not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top6 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='719107' date='Oct 28 2008, 10:26 PM']he has just one losing season in 5 years, which is what, 15 less than the previous 16 years? (roughly) he is a damn good coach, and anyone with common sense realized the state of the team, and that marvin isnt the issue, when he arrived he said he had a 3 year plan, build, draft, build, draft and make the palyoffs, and he hit it on the head and nailed it, home run, accomplished everything he needed to, THEN, his franchise qb and pro bowler you speak of, (2 pro bowls in 6 seasons, fyi). has reconstructive surgery and had what was a rebuilding year in 2006, did well, but now the same, he lost 66% of his linebacker core, two top draft picks, and a 3rd round WR was gone most of two seasons, some rookies now starting on D with tory james going from pro bowl to toast hawkins in a single summer, etc.. thus, due to inujury and stupidity, needless to say, at least 2 years of that rebuilding timeframe have restarted, we have the same gaps in the linebacking core, and an issue at safety with some youth, online scheme issues, and no pro bowl QB in sight. lucky for me, marvin, and the bengals, sad for those who want heads to roll just so heads can roll and uss rebuild 100% again for 3-4 years, but mike is smart enough to know why the team is losing, and quite smart enough to know what he has in marvin and what is needed to win from this point on. PS: i also love how the aruement went from "no playoff appearences in 20 years!!11" to "no playoff wins" then what if we win in the first round and lose in the 2nd itll be "a single palyoff win in 21 yearszz!11" the same tired argument doesnt everr get more legit, no matter how many lazy reporters and foolish fans want to repeat it. its not reality, and 1990-2002 has NOTHING to do with today, yesterday, or 2009. a healthy rivers, a mature marvin white, 2 LB draft picks, or a pick and a FA, sims developed, and going back to a man instead of zone oline blocking scheme with an upgrade at center, and palmer alive and healthy... = playoffs... easily.. why should we get another coach with another set of other coaches and ideology in to accomplish this? marvin can do it just fine. and has proven he can do it here and with his guys.. just think, we made the playoffs with at awful d-coord bresnehan and the gee wizz gawd awful OC in bratkowski... heavens how did we get by? look how much of a difference rivers made before he was lost... thats just one palyer at LB... 1... we need 2 more... we also need some answers at running back, but its tought to judge the position with the state of the o-line. so my opinion is foggy and weak on that one right now... i realize caring about the franchise in general to the point of analyzing exactly whats actually happening is tough, and takes time, and is probably 10x more time than 95% of fans of any team bother putting forth. but many nay saying jerkoffs dont even bother trying.. as carson whips grass stains from his inner ass the last two years ive dealt with "palmer sucks, we need a new qb" and "palmer has never been the same since his injury" yea, that pro bowl MVP the year after is a real step down... anyway.. hopefully you got my point, as the sarcasm was laced in pretty thick. marvin is hardly the problem,[/quote] I actually don't disagree with most of what you say. I think Marvin has done a good job in the past. I also 100% agree with you on idiots who say Carson hasn't been the same since the injury, given that 2006 was in some ways his best year (especially the beginning of 2006). I also wouldn't fire Marvin during the season, because that is pointless. But 0-16 is 0-16, 1-15 is 1-15 and 2-14 is 2-14. He has to be able to win games. It's the bottom line, and this team isn't so riddled with injuries that it can't win any games. If he somehow turns the team around and gets a few wins out of them in the second half, then I'd be willing to think about giving him another year. But if he doesn't, he has to go. I'm not saying he will go, but he has to go. And you can call that change for change's sake, but when you are leading your team to the worst record in the NFL (and possibly the worst record ever) then that is the one time when change for change's sake is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalFanInNJ Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='719107' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:26 AM']he has just one losing season in 5 years, which is what, 15 less than the previous 16 years? (roughly) he is a damn good coach, and anyone with common sense realized the state of the team, and that marvin isnt the issue, when he arrived he said he had a 3 year plan, build, draft, build, draft and make the palyoffs, and he hit it on the head and nailed it, home run, accomplished everything he needed to, THEN, his franchise qb and pro bowler you speak of, (2 pro bowls in 6 seasons, fyi). has reconstructive surgery and had what was a rebuilding year in 2006, did well, but now the same, he lost 66% of his linebacker core, two top draft picks, and a 3rd round WR was gone most of two seasons, some rookies now starting on D with tory james going from pro bowl to toast hawkins in a single summer, etc.. thus, due to inujury and stupidity, needless to say, at least 2 years of that rebuilding timeframe have restarted, we have the same gaps in the linebacking core, and an issue at safety with some youth, online scheme issues, and no pro bowl QB in sight. [color="#FF0000"] [i][b]How come teams like the Steelers seem to get over these types of issues rather quickly? Weren't the Titans in "cap hell" a few years ago? Look at them now. It's a shame you don't see the 8-8 and 7-9 seasons as losing season, because most of us do. Why? No playoffs.[/b][/i][/color] lucky for me, marvin, and the bengals, sad for those who want heads to roll just so heads can roll and uss rebuild 100% again for 3-4 years, but mike is smart enough to know why the team is losing, and quite smart enough to know what he has in marvin and what is needed to win from this point on. [color="#FF0000"] [i][b]Is he? He sure wasn't smart enough to know why this team was losing from 1991-2002. What makes you think we aren't headed for another 13 years of ineptness?[/b][i][/i][/color] PS: i also love how the aruement went from "no playoff appearences in 20 years!!11" to "no playoff wins" then what if we win in the first round and lose in the 2nd itll be "a single palyoff win in 21 yearszz!11" the same tired argument doesnt everr get more legit, no matter how many lazy reporters and foolish fans want to repeat it. its not reality, and 1990-2002 has NOTHING to do with today, yesterday, or 2009. [color="#FF0000"][i][b]Like it or not it's a fair argument. I would love one playoff win. Let's get there first. [/b][/i][/color] a healthy rivers, a mature marvin white, 2 LB draft picks, or a pick and a FA, sims developed, and going back to a man instead of zone oline blocking scheme with an upgrade at center, and palmer alive and healthy... = playoffs... easily.. [color="#FF0000"][i][b] Pure speculation on your part and honestly, highly doubtful. Who was the last player that this franchise DEVELOPED? Nobody ever improves on this team, they all seem to stay the same or get worse. What's to say your 2 LB picks become studs? Odds are against it. [/b][/i][/color] why should we get another coach with another set of other coaches and ideology in to accomplish this? marvin can do it just fine. and has proven he can do it here and with his guys.. just think, we made the playoffs with at awful d-coord bresnehan and the gee wizz gawd awful OC in bratkowski... heavens how did we get by? look how much of a difference rivers made before he was lost... thats just one palyer at LB... 1... we need 2 more... we also need some answers at running back, but its tought to judge the position with the state of the o-line. so my opinion is foggy and weak on that one right now... i realize caring about the franchise in general to the point of analyzing exactly whats actually happening is tough, and takes time, and is probably 10x more time than 95% of fans of any team bother putting forth. but many nay saying jerkoffs dont even bother trying.. as carson whips grass stains from his inner ass the last two years ive dealt with "palmer sucks, we need a new qb" and "palmer has never been the same since his injury" yea, that pro bowl MVP the year after is a real step down... anyway.. hopefully you got my point, as the sarcasm was laced in pretty thick. marvin is hardly the problem,[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 If the team fights through the entire season, MAYBE Marvin should stay. If the team packs it in on him, I think he needs to go. In my opinion, a team that packs it in on a coach will do it again, and will do it for a lot less the next time. As for this year being the anomaly, the case could be made that 2005 was an anomaly too. Perhaps we have a .500 coach who managed to bottle lightning once, and get struck by it once too. When you're looking at an abysmal season, and the need to get people to renew seat licenses, even decent coaches can find themselves on the chopping block... I think Marvin is a good coach, not a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='mongo' post='719219' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:04 AM']If the team fights through the entire season, MAYBE Marvin should stay. [b]If the team packs it in on him, I think he needs to go. In my opinion, a team that packs it in on a coach will do it again, and will do it for a lot less the next time.[/b] As for this year being the anomaly, the case could be made that 2005 was an anomaly too. Perhaps we have a .500 coach who managed to bottle lightning once, and get struck by it once too. When you're looking at an abysmal season, and the need to get people to renew seat licenses, even decent coaches can find themselves on the chopping block... I think Marvin is a good coach, not a great one.[/quote] Abso-fuckin-lutely. I know there are "extenuating circumstances" surrounding this team that vary in degree of severity depending on who you talk to...but one thing is certain, every football team in the NFL has the talent to compete with and beat any other team on any given day. Regardless of who is injured or who was drafted in the past and should be starting now but is out of the league or who is suspended, the coach is responsible for getting the 53 guys on game day prepared enough to win. If we can't squeak out a win or atleast play compettitive games i.e. losing on the last drive not being close in the 4th then the coach has failed. And no amount of extenuating circumstances matters. The Seahawks are without Hasselback, every WR on the roster has been hurt, they are without a guy who was league MVP two years ago, their OL has never recoverd from the loss of Hutchinson, their star MLB was arrested in the offseason and is playing terribly...and even they have 2 fucking wins. ML has to get 2-4 Ws and I don't care if his team is filled with Canadian league players. Every shitty team in the league wins a game. This team looks like they can't, and thats terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='719231' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:32 AM']Abso-fuckin-lutely. I know there are "extenuating circumstances" surrounding this team that vary in degree of severity depending on who you talk to...but one thing is certain, every football team in the NFL has the talent to compete with and beat any other team on any given day. Regardless of who is injured or who was drafted in the past and should be starting now but is out of the league or who is suspended, the coach is responsible for getting the 53 guys on game day prepared enough to win. If we can't squeak out a win or atleast play compettitive games i.e. losing on the last drive not being close in the 4th then the coach has failed. And no amount of extenuating circumstances matters. The Seahawks are without Hasselback, every WR on the roster has been hurt, they are without a guy who was league MVP two years ago, their OL has never recoverd from the loss of Hutchinson, their star MLB was arrested in the offseason and is playing terribly...and even they have 2 fucking wins. ML has to get 2-4 Ws and I don't care if his team is filled with Canadian league players. Every shitty team in the league wins a game. This team looks like they can't, and thats terrible.[/quote] Agreed. If you can't get 4/5 wins in a NFL season that puts your NFL head coaching ability into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Does anyone else find the image of a group of drunks in the nosebleed section of an 0-8 team's sold-out stadium chanting for the owner to "step down" extremely comical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='bengaled' post='719065' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:11 AM']i'm sure billick would rather stay in the booth than take this fucked up job.[/quote] But given, he would already have the top QB he so longed for in Baltimore, that may be a lil tempting. If the ownership promised to make a concentrated effort to keep TJ and Chad together. For someone who is known as an offensive "guru"..... That may be tempting AND he has worked with the LB coach..... hmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telemundo Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='BengalsOwn' post='719027' date='Oct 28 2008, 06:24 PM']scharm: fuckin jackass[/quote] x10000000 I have been lurking on this board for a long time. It has been a decent place to get bengals news. I'm not sure I can take it anymore. This place is filled with assholes, dickheads, reactionaries, dipshits, and every other type of malevolent ignoramus that one could imagine. The ring leader, Go, is probably the worst of all... but this Scharm guy is a huge fucking prick. Fuck this board, I'm finding a new place for my bengal news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='cincity' post='719265' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:32 PM'][b]But given, he would already have the top QB he so longed for in Baltimore,[/b] that may be a lil tempting. If the ownership promised to make a concentrated effort to keep TJ and Chad together. For someone who is known as an offensive "guru"..... That may be tempting AND he has worked with the LB coach..... hmmmmmm[/quote] I was thinking along the same lines. Aside from a few playcalling gaffs, Billick's main problem as a HC was finding a franchise QB. He'd already have one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I like Marvin, and I think he's a good coach. Some of his asistants (Hayes bros, Alexander, Brat maybe) you can have. It's scary how bad this team is... I know they've been without their franchise player, but they have completely fallen apart in the second half the past two weeks... esp. last week against a mediocre (at best) team with a QB, Matt Schaub, who for some reason feasts on this defense. They HAVE to find a way to win, despite what's occurred. Other teams have found a way to compete and win, despite losing their starting QBs, or being hit by a rash of injuries (Seattle, for eample, as chronicled above). The Bengals have to, too. If they can't, I think Marvin's gotta go. There really aren't a lot of good teams in the NFL this year, IMO... so they should be able to win some games... somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='texbengal' post='719268' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:39 PM']I like Marvin, and I think he's a good coach. Some of his asistants (Hayes bros, Alexander, Brat maybe) you can have. It's scary how bad this team is... I know they've been without their franchise player, but they have completely fallen apart in the second half the past two weeks... esp. last week against a mediocre (at best) team with a QB, Matt Schaub, who for some reason feasts on this defense. They HAVE to find a way to win, despite what's occurred. Other teams have found a way to compete and win, despite losing their starting QBs, or being hit by a rash of injuries (Seattle, for eample, as chronicled above). The Bengals have to, too. If they can't, I think Marvin's gotta go. There really aren't a lot of good teams in the NFL this year, IMO... so they should be able to win some games... somehow.[/quote] Schaub has actually been dramatically improving since he sat with the "flu" and Sage fumbled away a win against the Colts. He only missed like 4 passes agains the Lions as well, and basically won the game against the Dolphins. I told folks here, the Texans aren't that bad. They were an OT loss and a fluke last 2 minutes from being 4-2 when we played them (instead of 2-4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='BengalFanInNJ' post='719200' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:33 AM'][color="#FF0000"][i][b] Pure speculation on your part and honestly, highly doubtful. Who was the last player that this franchise DEVELOPED?[/b][/i][/color][/quote] Let's roll down the list of a few under Marvin/Brat that are solid starters either here or developed here and moved on: Chad, TJ, Palmer, Jeremi Johnson, Rudi Johnson, Kevin Walter, Eric Steinbach, Andrew Whitworth, Levi Jones, Peko, Geathers, (JoJo, Hall, White, Jones, Nduwke, Rivers all in the process or close to being there). Having high-pick guys like Pollack, Thurman, Irons and Perry either get injured or suspended, definitely hindered our developmental process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BENGALS666 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='GoBengals' post='719079' date='Oct 28 2008, 10:07 PM']why, again, would marvin be fired?[/quote] How much more bleeding does it take for you then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgwilly31 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='719149' date='Oct 29 2008, 07:33 AM']I found this comment absolutely comical. It has to be the quote of the year, thus far... far out-reaching "I'm 1/3rd indian"... Granted, Marvin has only been here since 2003. Mike's been here, in charge, since 1990. So, if he's "smart enought to know why the team is losing" then one of two scenarios is occurring: 1) He doesn't give a damn as long as he's turning a healthy profit. 2) He doesn't know how to fix it. Go, which is it. You state the above, so if the guy knows "why the team is losing" over the past 18 years why hasn't it been fixed? And, realize there was no name calling, etc. in my post. No blasting anybody. Critique yes, blistering no.[/quote] [img]http://brownisgod.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/pwnd.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkansas Bengal Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Telemundo' post='719266' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:34 AM']x10000000 I have been lurking on this board for a long time. It has been a decent place to get bengals news. I'm not sure I can take it anymore. This place is filled with assholes, dickheads, reactionaries, dipshits, and every other type of malevolent ignoramus that one could imagine. The ring leader, Go, is probably the worst of all... but this Scharm guy is a huge fucking prick. Fuck this board, I'm finding a new place for my bengal news. [/quote] Well seeing as to how this was your first post and that you only joined yesterday, I seriously doubt you'll be missed. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Arkansas Bengal' post='719299' date='Oct 29 2008, 03:07 PM']Well seeing as to how this was your first post and that you only joined yesterday, I seriously doubt you'll be missed. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.[/quote] dude dont be like that, he did or said nothing to you. Telemundo were all a bit pissed due to the season, frustraded some take it out in different ways. Dont run off just get a bit thicker skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoBengal Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='719301' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:20 PM']dude dont be like that, he did or said nothing to you. [b] Telemundo were all a bit pissed due to the season, frustraded some take it out in different ways. Dont run off just get a bit thicker skin.[/b][/quote] Let him walk. Although the world's quickest "Goodbye Cruel World" post in the history of the intrawebz is rather impressive. One fucking post. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='ChicagoBengal' post='719308' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:03 PM']Let him walk. Although the world's quickest "Goodbye Cruel World" post in the history of the intrawebz is rather impressive. One fucking post. Priceless.[/quote] I wonder which one I would be. [quote][i]assholes, dickheads, reactionaries, dipshits, and every other type of malevolent ignoramus[/i][/quote] It's probably one of the other unnamed types of malevolent ignoramus[es, or is it ignorami?] If I had to pick one, it'd be Callous-hearted Complaint-Artist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Actium' post='719309' date='Oct 29 2008, 05:11 PM']I wonder which one I would be. It's probably one of the other unnamed types of malevolent ignoramus[es, or is it ignorami?] If I had to pick one, it'd be Callous-hearted Complaint-Artist[/quote] No, you are definitely a dipshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actium Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='akiliMVP' post='719318' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:52 PM']No, you are definitely a dipshit [/quote] You sound like my fiancee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsOwn Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='ChicagoBengal' post='719308' date='Oct 29 2008, 05:03 PM']Let him walk. Although the world's quickest "Goodbye Cruel World" post in the history of the intrawebz is rather impressive. One fucking post. Priceless.[/quote] :rofl: "People are mean on a message board, let me sign up and tell them and then leave!!!111 " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|OneHeartBeat| Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='Dan_Bengals_NJ' post='719282' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:41 PM']Let's roll down the list of a few under Marvin/Brat that are solid starters either here or developed here and moved on: Chad, TJ, Palmer, Jeremi Johnson, Rudi Johnson, Kevin Walter, Eric Steinbach, Andrew Whitworth, Levi Jones, Peko, Geathers, (JoJo, Hall, White, Jones, Nduwke, Rivers all in the process or close to being there). Having high-pick guys like Pollack, Thurman, Irons and Perry either get injured or suspended, definitely hindered our developmental process.[/quote] This is almost laughable. CJ, TJ, Rudi, Jones, were already here. Jeremi Johnson is a selfish fat ass, Steiney and walter are not even here anymore. Geathers?? doent play up to his pay grade. Palmer was the no-brainer 1st round pick I'll give you Whit and Peko and the injuries havent helped. But the bottom line man is if it doesnt equal wins then it's all for not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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