big_dish Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Yes, his tackling is really.. wait, what? May as well blame the fans for barely selling out the playoff game, if we're going that route. How is he supposed to prevent the team from fucking up in the playoffs, exactly? I mean I know the conventional wisdom is to expect him to give this great FRRRREEEEDDDUMMMMMM speech and make everyone play great.. That just doesn't seem very realistic to me at all. What could he have possibly done to make a top-5 defense disappear like that? Was it the little grimace-clap thing he doea when someone makes a shit play? I think we all want to hang the blame on an individual to avoid facing the fact that our favorite players didn't get it done, either. You want to blame Marvin, ok great he's the HC and ultimately responsible, that's fine. Please explain to me what you think he should have done differently? Yell more? I'd like to hear some criticism that goes beyond this tiddlywinks angry fan view of the game in other words. Do you think the o-line gave the QB adequate protection during that playoff loss? If so, maybe you should go watch it again. Do you think the offensive game plan gave them the best chance to win? Were the players on both sides of the ball playing up to their usual level? Why not, because MarvinsucksAndysucksmediocrewahwahwahwahwahhhhh? JS, maybe take a closer look instead of mewling like a box full of kittens because things disn't go our way. There is one constant in the 0-5 playoff record (and looking terrible in the games). It's not the same players. It's not the same coordinators. It's the same head coach. I don't think he can do anything differently, as a person. He is who he is- not a brilliant game planner, executioner, or motivator. You're crazy if you think any of the good coaches in this league would have an 0-5 playoff record (and be absolutely embarrassed) with the teams and players he has had. The head coach is in control of the entire team. Of course he is ultimately to blame- it is his fault. It's also the organizations fault for never demanding the highest level of performance from coaches and players. It's mediocrity encouraging mediocrity- and that's what you get out of Marvin Lewis- mediocrity. If he was any better than mediocre- his record as a head coach and record in big games and playoffs wouldn't be terrible to mediocre at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Going to the playoffs every year isn't mediocre, definitively. If you want to say that ML can't get them from good to great, I'm listening because I've suggested the same, but this is far from a mediocre football team. This "playoffs and big games" stuff is just cherry-picking. I mean shit, 2 of those losses were due to Carson having his knee shredded and then playing like a distracted sack of turds against the Jets. Remember everyone calling for his head because he couldn't win in big games? Yeah, me neither. One of those was primarily the fault of Gresham not being able to catch a damned cold, and here he is looking at an extension because, y'know, Pro Bowl. It all sounds like a bunch of torch-and-pitchfork rabble to me, honestly. Fuck it, let's put McCarron under center and let people learn what mediocre means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Being 0-5 in the playoffs means we have played 1 more game than we otherwise would have 5 different years. If that's not mediocre its slightly above it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Going to the playoffs every year isn't mediocre, definitively. If you want to say that ML can't get them from good to great, I'm listening because I've suggested the same, but this is far from a mediocre football team. This "playoffs and big games" stuff is just cherry-picking. I mean shit, 2 of those losses were due to Carson having his knee shredded and then playing like a distracted sack of turds against the Jets. Remember everyone calling for his head because he couldn't win in big games? Yeah, me neither. One of those was primarily the fault of Gresham not being able to catch a damned cold, and here he is looking at an extension because, y'know, Pro Bowl. It all sounds like a bunch of torch-and-pitchfork rabble to me, honestly. Fuck it, let's put McCarron under center and let people learn what mediocre means. Agreed. The most interesting thing to me is that I think if the Bengals would have gone 7-9 Dalton's rookie year and missed the playoffs, this storyline and angst wouldn't exist. We'd be 0-2 in the playoffs, but it wouldn't be all that big a deal. But because we capitalized on a super easy schedule and beat a bunch of bad teams in 2011, everyone has this exaggerated sense that the team is stalled in neutral. The reality is that we've improved a good amount each season. It's funny how little things like that change perception so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Being 0-5 in the playoffs means we have played 1 more game than we otherwise would have 5 different years. If that's not mediocre its slightly above it. You say that, but how many teams have played 4 extra games or more in the last 5 years? And I say last 5 years because you still have some of those players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 Here's a question for some of you: Have the Dalton-era Bengals won any "big games"? Ever? I'm still halfway convinced that they're only big games to you guys when we lose. Please give an example otherwise. I can think of two wins off the top of my head, at Pittsburgh Week 16 in 2012 and Baltimore Week 17 last year. Both were wins that sealed a playoff birth and division title, respectively. Of course, neither were great performances by Dalton. PIT: 58.8 QBR, 58% completion %, 2 INT, 0 TD BAL: 62.2 QBR, 58% completion %, 4 INT, 3 TD (1 rush) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted June 1, 2014 Report Share Posted June 1, 2014 I can think of two wins off the top of my head, at Pittsburgh Week 16 in 2012 and Baltimore Week 17 last year. Both were wins that sealed a playoff birth and division title, respectively. Of course, neither were great performances by Dalton. PIT: 58.8 QBR, 58% completion %, 2 INT, 0 TD BAL: 62.2 QBR, 58% completion %, 4 INT, 3 TD (1 rush) I really think the "big game" knock against Dalton isn't about handling the big spotlight, but simply style of defense. Dalton has the most lopsided QB rating in the league between 4-3 defenses and 3-4 defenses. There is something like a 30 point rating differential. So basically Dalton puts up Peyton Manning-like numbers against 4-3 base defenses and Mark Sanchez-like numbers against 3-4 defenses. Of course the biggest problem with that is their division rivals play base 3-4 defenses, and those have been most of the "prime time" regular season games. And the Bengals' opponent in the playoffs in the last three years have, as luck would have it, played a 3-4 base defense as well. So I'm not sure who is the most to blame for the team's horrible performances against the 3-4 defense. I'm sure Jay Gruden didn't see much 3-4 in the Arena League, and Dalton never really saw it in college. And even teams that play a base 4-3 can usually become 3-4 on occasion, and until Dalton & the Bengals stop being horrible against the 3-4 looks, I'm sure they will see even more of it in the future. It's like a big league hitter who struggles against left-handed pitching. Guess what the opposing manager is going to bring out of the bullpen late in a tight game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 I really think the "big game" knock against Dalton isn't about handling the big spotlight, but simply style of defense. Dalton has the most lopsided QB rating in the league between 4-3 defenses and 3-4 defenses. There is something like a 30 point rating differential. So basically Dalton puts up Peyton Manning-like numbers against 4-3 base defenses and Mark Sanchez-like numbers against 3-4 defenses. Of course the biggest problem with that is their division rivals play base 3-4 defenses, and those have been most of the "prime time" regular season games. And the Bengals' opponent in the playoffs in the last three years have, as luck would have it, played a 3-4 base defense as well. So I'm not sure who is the most to blame for the team's horrible performances against the 3-4 defense. I'm sure Jay Gruden didn't see much 3-4 in the Arena League, and Dalton never really saw it in college. And even teams that play a base 4-3 can usually become 3-4 on occasion, and until Dalton & the Bengals stop being horrible against the 3-4 looks, I'm sure they will see even more of it in the future. It's like a big league hitter who struggles against left-handed pitching. Guess what the opposing manager is going to bring out of the bullpen late in a tight game? Nice post! Too bad they can't run more 3-4 defenses at him in practice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 I can think of two wins off the top of my head, at Pittsburgh Week 16 in 2012 and Baltimore Week 17 last year. Both were wins that sealed a playoff birth and division title, respectively. Of course, neither were great performances by Dalton. PIT: 58.8 QBR, 58% completion %, 2 INT, 0 TD BAL: 62.2 QBR, 58% completion %, 4 INT, 3 TD (1 rush) Wow. Wow. It's just amazing what goes on around here. It's like Fox News writ large. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's true, folks! Maybe that's some ESPN QBR shit, but we've never used that as a standard to measure our QBs by, but even if we did I'm pretty sure a TD equals a TD and a INT equals an INT (you got Baltimore right so I'm guessing it's just basic deception). So let's look at how Dalton ACTUALLY PERFORMED: PITT: 86.4 QBR, 56.8% completion, 2TDs 0 INTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Wow. Wow. It's just amazing what goes on around here. It's like Fox News writ large. Just because it's in print doesn't mean it's true, folks! Maybe that's some ESPN QBR shit, but we've never used that as a standard to measure our QBs by, but even if we did I'm pretty sure a TD equals a TD and a INT equals an INT (you got Baltimore right so I'm guessing it's just basic deception). So let's look at how Dalton ACTUALLY PERFORMED: PITT: 86.4 QBR, 56.8% completion, 2TDs 0 INTs. Read it again dipshit. I said 2012 against Pittsburgh. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Being 0-5 in the playoffs means we have played 1 more game than we otherwise would have 5 different years. If that's not mediocre its slightly above it. How many teams make the playoffs? Don't be dense. & very good point made about 3-4 opponents. I wonder how Hue's faired against them? I think the 3-4 might be a softer rushing defense, even inside the division, it's just that our last 2 OC's have been pass-happy. We know Hue isn't that, at least. The last time we were a good rushing team we swept the AFC North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 How many teams make the playoffs? Don't be dense. & very good point made about 3-4 opponents. I wonder how Hue's faired against them? I think the 3-4 might be a softer rushing defense, even inside the division, it's just that our last 2 OC's have been pass-happy. We know Hue isn't that, at least. The last time we were a good rushing team we swept the AFC North. Actually the 3-4 is more of an anti-rushing defense. We'll see how it works out for the Bengals trying to run more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Because I don't think he's mediocre. Historically, he has done things few have done in their first three years in the league, and things no other Bengals QB has ever done. I see a guy getting better every year, and I don't expect that to stop. I see a guy willing to do the extra things to try to perfect his craft. You and your like only see three playoff losses. Historically this is the best run of defense the franchise has had too. Dalton is a medicore talent that has been along for the ride. He basically flushed the best team they've had since 2005 or maybe 1988 last year in the playoffs. I don't understand DD mentality do you get an extra cookie if you somehow say "Hey I was on board with Dalton the whole time"? The guy has been medicore to this point and the team that drafted him basically admitted they saw limited upside but he was more ready than other available prospects. That's EXACTLY what has played out. The window is open to put this franchise on a different level. IF Andy raises his game then FUCKING AWESOME! It doesn't change the FACT he hasn't in the first 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 There is one constant in the 0-5 playoff record (and looking terrible in the games). It's not the same players. It's not the same coordinators. It's the same head coach. I don't think he can do anything differently, as a person. He is who he is- not a brilliant game planner, executioner, or motivator. You're crazy if you think any of the good coaches in this league would have an 0-5 playoff record (and be absolutely embarrassed) with the teams and players he has had. The head coach is in control of the entire team. Of course he is ultimately to blame- it is his fault. It's also the organizations fault for never demanding the highest level of performance from coaches and players. It's mediocrity encouraging mediocrity- and that's what you get out of Marvin Lewis- mediocrity. If he was any better than mediocre- his record as a head coach and record in big games and playoffs wouldn't be terrible to mediocre at best. Alot of truth in this but Marvin is here that's just way the Brown family rolls and you can probably thank Paul sticking with Sam and Sam punching the ticket for Superbowl 23 for it. Hobson has probably got that story 90% written for 4/5 years now waiting to make the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Read it again dipshit. I said 2012 against Pittsburgh. Nice try though. Forgive him and others. They get a little frustrated over this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Historically this is the best run of defense the franchise has had too. Dalton is a medicore talent that has been along for the ride. He basically flushed the best team they've had since 2005 or maybe 1988 last year in the playoffs. I don't understand DD mentality do you get an extra cookie if you somehow say "Hey I was on board with Dalton the whole time"? The guy has been medicore to this point and the team that drafted him basically admitted they saw limited upside but he was more ready than other available prospects. That's EXACTLY what has played out. The window is open to put this franchise on a different level. IF Andy raises his game then FUCKING AWESOME! It doesn't change the FACT he hasn't in the first 3 seasons. Once again, you're wrong. Not like it's surprising in any way, shape or form. Using one of your sayings, "He's closer to top ten than bottom ten", and only the moron's don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Once again, you're wrong. Not like it's surprising in any way, shape or form. Using one of your sayings, "He's closer to top ten than bottom ten", and only the moron's don't realize it. Just curious...what is your basis for making that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 You say that, but how many teams have played 4 extra games or more in the last 5 years? And I say last 5 years because you still have some of those players on the field. We are one of 14 teams to have played in at least 4 playoff games in the last 5 years. Not exactly elite company...almost half the league. Better to be in this half than the other, but it isn't far from mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Once again, you're wrong. Not like it's surprising in any way, shape or form. Using one of your sayings, "He's closer to top ten than bottom ten", and only the moron's don't realize it. At least you are in the running for that cookie Kenny. What's your motivation to distort the truth so much about an average QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 Just curious...what is your basis for making that statement? Lets look at the numbers. He was: 8th in completions 7th in yards 10th in yards per attempt 15th in completion % (min 150 attempts) 15th in Quarterback rating(min 150 attempts) 8th in passing yards per game 3rd in TD passes 8th in completions over 20 yards tied for first in completions over 40 yards and his bad stat: 5th in interceptions I would think that body of work would put him closer to top ten than bottom 10, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 15th QB rating. How does that not say mediocre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 It may Ken but I still don't think it justifies a sense of urgency to extend him at a 17 mil a year contract yet..The team has the leverage to wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 15th QB rating. How does that not say mediocre? Closer to top ten than bottom ten, isn't it scharm? Or would you just like to continue playing the dumbass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 It may Ken but I still don't think it justifies a sense of urgency to extend him at a 17 mil a year contract yet..The team has the leverage to wait... he wouldn't cost 17 now. If the Bengals extend him before this season, it will be to buy low. They won't buy high before they have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 he wouldn't cost 17 now. If the Bengals extend him before this season, it will be to buy low. They won't buy high before they have to. When you put it that way I would be on board!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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