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Bad analogy, dude. 

Here's a quote from Zac's post-game presser:     Dude... just stop.  You've said this for your entire time here, literally since your first press conference after your first game in 2

1-4-1 is not good enough, but the vast majority of the team is still competing hard for this staff.  It's not a stretch to say they could've or should've won 2 or 3 against LA, Philly, and Indy and tw

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22 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

 

Lol. You got me. I don't know much about business, or how to do research, or how to work on continually improving my judgment as I get older. I'm too busy falling off turnip trucks to do any of that stuff.

Please. 

 

Just having an opinion and voicing it, along with some frustration.  Sorry you're so butthurt and needed to go all passive-aggressive. 

 

My apologies.  You are much wiser than I and I will refrain from questioning your wisdom in the future. :ninja:

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1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

We are a RT and RG away from having a decent enough line to let Burrow do his thing. We also need to address how bad the run D is, but I feel like that's a good linebacker away as well. If they spend like they did this offseason, then yes I think year 3 is Taylor's "make it or break it" year as I think playoffs next year is very reasonable depending on what they do in the offseason.

 

We are always one of two players away from being one or two players away. We will SLOWLY add more players but then just as slowly lose others - Green, Geno, Gio, Dunlap, WJIII....

 

Other than lucking into Burrow, I see no progress here. It would literally take a coaching overhaul (or both coordinators and assistants) and even then we need an improved personnel department. Nothing has really changed. 

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52 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

 

. It would literally take a coaching overhaul (or both coordinators and assistants) and even then we need an improved personnel department. Nothing has really changed. 

 

At the time, they said the hires were basically "whoever we can get" due to the timing.  Since then they've attempted to replace none of them.  It's just lazy.

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8 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

First thought I had when I read this. To outsiders, that guy was a mere Division CoS in 1940. To insiders, he was a respected up-and-comer.

 

To the point: I don't know what Taylor's reputation was among his peers in Feb, 2019, but I do know that he's only been on the job for 20 months. Under some pretty challenging circumstances. I'm not saying that we should anoint him as some kind of savior. I am saying that too many of you people want to throw him under the bus prematurely. I don't have any insider information, but I'm almost certain that Taylor and Bengals management, during the interview process, discussed a likely timeline as a reasonable measure of success or failure. And I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't 3 games into his second year. I'd also be willing to bet that it was along the lines of 3 years. Because in the real world it takes that long to see results from a major organizational change of this kind. I know this to be true.

 

So, everybody chill out, enjoy the bumpy ride this year, and wait to see if this team is a playoff-contender next year. If it isn't by the end of 2021, then maybe some of this whining and complaining might be justified.

 

So how do you reconcile the Jim Turner hire with Taylor's system and culture that he's trying to implement?

 

Zac Taylor hired Jim Turner shortly after his press conference like T-Dub stated, and not only does Turner have a well-documented history of implementing and installing the exact opposite of what it takes to win a championship in his offensive lines, his performance has been awful and it's not getting better. Guys who played for Power 5 programs that won national championships like Florida State, Ohio State, Alabama, etc..come here and play as they have never played a down of football. 

 

Taylor gets a lot of opportunities and excuses for horrible performance, he's demonstrated repeatedly that he can't win in the NFL.. 20 games is a large enough sample size, especially for a guy who has zero prior experience and isn't qualified for the job.  

 

I'm not saying that he should be fired before the end of the year but it's another 2 or 3 win season and it looks like Joe Burrow is going to get seriously injured, like it has been looking so far, then Taylor should be fired. Burrow's development needs to be the #1 priority for the franchise in the next 18 months and if the Bengals front office can't get an offensive line that can protect the rare commodity that Joe Burrow then some major changes need to be made, there are literally billions of dollars on the line. 

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Oh gee..if only there was another option...a former Bengal who interviewed but wasn't hired..has a proven track record of success, has won a Super Bowl in which in his unit that he is responsible for plays great(not like Goff in the Super Bowl...but I digress)...who could this guy be.

 

https://wtop.com/sports-columns/2020/02/column-the-chief-reason-for-kcs-super-bowl-liv-comeback-is-overlooked-again/#:~:text=Yes%2C Reid calls plays.&text=“His role is the same,in communication with the quarterbacks.

 

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8 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

First thought I had when I read this. To outsiders, that guy was a mere Division CoS in 1940. To insiders, he was a respected up-and-comer.

 

To the point: I don't know what Taylor's reputation was among his peers in Feb, 2019, but I do know that he's only been on the job for 20 months. Under some pretty challenging circumstances. I'm not saying that we should anoint him as some kind of savior. I am saying that too many of you people want to throw him under the bus prematurely. I don't have any insider information, but I'm almost certain that Taylor and Bengals management, during the interview process, discussed a likely timeline as a reasonable measure of success or failure. And I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't 3 games into his second year. I'd also be willing to bet that it was along the lines of 3 years. Because in the real world it takes that long to see results from a major organizational change of this kind. I know this to be true.

 

So, everybody chill out, enjoy the bumpy ride this year, and wait to see if this team is a playoff-contender next year. If it isn't by the end of 2021, then maybe some of this whining and complaining might be justified.

Challenging circumstances? He inherited a 7-9  team with a veteran QB. He was brought in to get them over the top in the playoffs. Not start a rebuilding project with a 2-14 season. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Challenging circumstances? He inherited a 7-9  team with a veteran QB. He was brought in to get them over the top in the playoffs. Not start a rebuilding project with a 2-14 season. 

 

 

 

 

TBF the rebuild should've started after the 2015 meltdown.  Years later & we're franchise tagging the ghost of AJ Green for some reason.  

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3 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

 

Lol. You got me. I don't know much about business, or how to do research, or how to work on continually improving my judgment as I get older. I'm too busy falling off turnip trucks to do any of that stuff.

 

Turnips are delicious and in no way deserve their negative reputation.

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6 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I think you're right about that, however next year will be Year 3.  Does this team look like it's going to be competing for anything next year?  I doubt 3 years to achieve the mere hope of 8-8 football wasn't their plan.  It sure sounds like a Bengals plan though...

 

I think that 8-8 at the end of next year would be considered a failure. But that's a long time from now so I'm not going to extrapolate anything at this moment. We'll see.

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3 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Please. 

 

Just having an opinion and voicing it, along with some frustration.  Sorry you're so butthurt and needed to go all passive-aggressive. 

 

My apologies.  You are much wiser than I and I will refrain from questioning your wisdom in the future. :ninja:

 

Lol again. I expressed an opinion about the front office yesterday.

 

Were I upset, you would know. Just ask folks who post a lot down in the politics sub-forum.

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

 

So how do you reconcile the Jim Turner hire with Taylor's system and culture that he's trying to implement?

 

Zac Taylor hired Jim Turner shortly after his press conference like T-Dub stated, and not only does Turner have a well-documented history of implementing and installing the exact opposite of what it takes to win a championship in his offensive lines, his performance has been awful and it's not getting better. Guys who played for Power 5 programs that won national championships like Florida State, Ohio State, Alabama, etc..come here and play as they have never played a down of football. 

 

Taylor gets a lot of opportunities and excuses for horrible performance, he's demonstrated repeatedly that he can't win in the NFL.. 20 games is a large enough sample size, especially for a guy who has zero prior experience and isn't qualified for the job.  

 

I'm not saying that he should be fired before the end of the year but it's another 2 or 3 win season and it looks like Joe Burrow is going to get seriously injured, like it has been looking so far, then Taylor should be fired. Burrow's development needs to be the #1 priority for the franchise in the next 18 months and if the Bengals front office can't get an offensive line that can protect the rare commodity that Joe Burrow then some major changes need to be made, there are literally billions of dollars on the line. 

 

Not sure I can reconcile it. IIRC, Pollack was interested in staying, too. But I do know this: if you bring in a person to head up a new regime, then you have to give him/her the freedom to choose staff. Part of the deal and Business 101. I once worked for a guy who had some really obnoxious political views (seriously so as it got him kicked out of France, told never to return) but I learned from him and eventually respected him in a limited way. Life is funny like that.

 

As for the rest of you claims, I disagree, aside from the part I bolded. The "exact opposite" business is just a silly, stupid assertion. Are you able to prove that Turner's intent is to be a saboteur? Cause I want to see those documents.

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51 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Challenging circumstances? He inherited a 7-9  team with a veteran QB. He was brought in to get them over the top in the playoffs. Not start a rebuilding project with a 2-14 season. 

 

 

 

Exactly, the talent is there for them to at least compete but the coaching is getting in the way.

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

 

So how do you reconcile the Jim Turner hire with Taylor's system and culture that he's trying to implement?

 

Zac Taylor hired Jim Turner shortly after his press conference like T-Dub stated, and not only does Turner have a well-documented history of implementing and installing the exact opposite of what it takes to win a championship in his offensive lines, his performance has been awful and it's not getting better. Guys who played for Power 5 programs that won national championships like Florida State, Ohio State, Alabama, etc..come here and play as they have never played a down of football. 

 

Taylor gets a lot of opportunities and excuses for horrible performance, he's demonstrated repeatedly that he can't win in the NFL.. 20 games is a large enough sample size, especially for a guy who has zero prior experience and isn't qualified for the job.  

 

I'm not saying that he should be fired before the end of the year but it's another 2 or 3 win season and it looks like Joe Burrow is going to get seriously injured, like it has been looking so far, then Taylor should be fired. Burrow's development needs to be the #1 priority for the franchise in the next 18 months and if the Bengals front office can't get an offensive line that can protect the rare commodity that Joe Burrow then some major changes need to be made, there are literally billions of dollars on the line. 

Damn you laid it out there..

I agree Turners method isnt working..

What u said about power 5 players here was eye opening..

Maybe his scheme or techniques are 

outdated or not advanced in this age..

 

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54 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

TBF the rebuild should've started after the 2015 meltdown.  Years later & we're franchise tagging the ghost of AJ Green for some reason.  

 

This. The last couple of years under Marvin were really indicative of a team gone south. Taylor has to turn that mess around, Though I do think that the finesse with which they are dealing with Green is both smart and good business. Green is important for continuity so I don't mind the tag. Give him a chance to earn a longer contract. And, it also is part and parcel of something about the Bengals organization which is good (sometimes to a fault): They are loyal to their players when that loyalty is deserved.

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2 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

 

This. The last couple of years under Marvin were really indicative of a team gone south. Taylor has to turn that mess around, Though I do think that the finesse with which they are dealing with Green is both smart and good business. Green is important for continuity so I don't mind the tag. Give him a chance to earn a longer contract. And, it also is part and parcel of something about the Bengals organization which is good (sometimes to a fault): They are loyal to their players when that loyalty is deserved.

 

 

No doubt AJ is one of the few bright spots on the team, even if it's mostly nostalgia at this point.  That said, I would've been for letting him walk if they invested the money elsewhere (OL & defense obviously).   That's a really big "if" though.

 

His body language has been pretty bad IMO but that goes for most of the team.  That sort of thing is far more troubling to me than individual bad players.  

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2 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

 

Not sure I can reconcile it. IIRC, Pollack was interested in staying, too. But I do know this: if you bring in a person to head up a new regime, then you have to give him/her the freedom to choose staff. Part of the deal and Business 101. I once worked for a guy who had some really obnoxious political views (seriously so as it got him kicked out of France, told never to return) but I learned from him and eventually respected him in a limited way. Life is funny like that.

 

As for the rest of you claims, I disagree, aside from the part I bolded. The "exact opposite" business is just a silly, stupid assertion. Are you able to prove that Turner's intent is to be a saboteur? Cause I want to see those documents.

 

Are you unaware of what happened during his tenure in Miami, where Taylor got his only NFL OC experience, it was a pretty big deal?

 

I'm glad you're so tolerant and progressive but I don't know if anyone is learning anything from Turner, despite how obnoxious his sense of humor may be. If they're learning it's not showing up on Sunday and Joe Burrow is on pace to get destroyed in the process.

 

All of the hate this organization received this off season because of Burrow's supposed hesitance to join up with Bengals because of the way this ownership, front office, and coaching staff go about their business it's proving like it was well deserved. 

 

To mismanage this on every level is ridiculous. The front office failed to get enough depth and talent in the offensive line, then signed off on hiring an absolute moron(anyone who thinks Bobby Hart is playing great is a moron, medically speaking) to develop the less talented players is a recipe for disaster, and added a head coach with no prior experience or real qualifications besides he looks like a guy he worked for that was successful more so than the other candidates that were interested in the job.

 

And the ownership group is giving Bobby Hart $21 million dollars to get Burrow blasted every game, doubling down on it, because who else is available...that would require hiring more scouts...overhead...oh no.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

 

This. The last couple of years under Marvin were really indicative of a team gone south. Taylor has to turn that mess around, Though I do think that the finesse with which they are dealing with Green is both smart and good business. Green is important for continuity so I don't mind the tag. Give him a chance to earn a longer contract. And, it also is part and parcel of something about the Bengals organization which is good (sometimes to a fault): They are loyal to their players when that loyalty is deserved.

A 2 win team does not really need much continuity. On one hand this is stated as a rebuild then we have to keep all the older players for continuity? I was not opposed to keeping AJ for this year to see what he had but even he gets to 80% of his former self, the money for him is better spent on the OL. 

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Here is a valid question asked in the business world - if a middling Company (name anyone big or small ) suddenly has a new owner that wants to succeed, how many of the senior and middle management will still be there in a year's time?

 

In the case of this team, a new owner would mean a complete overhaul - top to bottom and not just because many are inbreds, because they are not competent. 

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45 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

No doubt AJ is one of the few bright spots on the team, even if it's mostly nostalgia at this point.  That said, I would've been for letting him walk if they invested the money elsewhere (OL & defense obviously).   That's a really big "if" though.

 

His body language has been pretty bad IMO but that goes for most of the team.  That sort of thing is far more troubling to me than individual bad players.  

Yeah its hard to walk with your head held high when you arent performing..

He isnt..

 

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3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Challenging circumstances? He inherited a 7-9  team with a veteran QB. He was brought in to get them over the top in the playoffs. Not start a rebuilding project with a 2-14 season. 

 

 

 

But Marvin.....20 games in people are still blaming Marvin. If he was holding them back why can't they win more than 13% of they have played without him as HC when they won 52% of the games he coached?

 

I didn't realize the ghost of Marvin Lewis is why Taylor is one of worse coaches in NFL history. At what point does Taylor and this coaching staff get held accountable by anyone?

 

 

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3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Challenging circumstances? He inherited a 7-9  team with a veteran QB. He was brought in to get them over the top in the playoffs. Not start a rebuilding project with a 2-14 season. 

 

 

This.

 

 

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This week Taylor and Turner made the following statements about Joe Burrow and the play of the offensive line, specifically the right side and Bobby Hart.

 

This is Taylor on Burrow getting lit up behind this God awful line Taylor and this crew put together this off season:

 

 "Some of those are on protection, just pure pass protection. Some of those are on him and the style of his play. The play is never over for him. He does everything he can to keep it alive."

 

Coach Zac Taylor placed blame for four of the eight sacks on the offensive line."

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/bengals-want-joe-burrow-to-be-smarter-about-taking-hits

 

Seriously WTF... Yeah let's blame Joe Burrow for trying to overcome your ineptitude... what an ass. Be smarter!!!!

 

Fuck you Zac! Be smarter says the guy who passes on 3rd & 2 twice. Says the guy who uses all of his time outs and loses again in the opener. Taylor is trying to put Burrow getting beat up on him instead of where it belongs... the offensive line coach Jim Turner.

 

Now here's Taylor's boy...Jim Turner on the worst starting RT in the NFL, Mr. Untouchable, Bobby Hart:

 

"Out of all my players, Bobby Hart is the most underappreciated player and the most picked-on player by everybody from the media to whoever wants to talk football," Turner said Wednesday on a conference call. "It's like every pressure we've ever had gets blamed on that kid. Nobody has put more time or effort into our offense, like in preparation for the season and understanding his weaknesses and in training and getting himself ready to play for the season. You watch him play, right? He's played three solid games."

 

"Bobby's playing the best football I've seen him play in his career right now," Turner continued. "I think mentally, he's a great place right now. I think he's unaffected by anything that's said about him, and I think he knows, like if you watch his side of the line, it's solid."

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/jim-turner-defends-bobby-hart

 

WTF...

 

How can anyone trust these clowns (HC & OC & DC) to do anything other than what they have shown they have been able to do... which is lose. 

 

Fuck you Jim Turner... solid like baby poop...these guys are unraveling fast.

 

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3 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

No doubt AJ is one of the few bright spots on the team, even if it's mostly nostalgia at this point.  That said, I would've been for letting him walk if they invested the money elsewhere (OL & defense obviously).   That's a really big "if" though.

 

His body language has been pretty bad IMO but that goes for most of the team.  That sort of thing is far more troubling to me than individual bad players.  

No doubt AJ is one of the bright spots on the team "...

The word is "was"...

Most fans believe in Not for Long""

Hes lost a step...best to face that ...

 

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