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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

I've been harping on that point for so long I'd given up on it.   The team has been consistently pass-wacky for years so I can only assume it's by direction from the top.

 

Game after game the RB is an afterthought while we throw 40+ passes in a loss because "the OL is bad".   They can't pass block either so IDK why an incomplete pass is acceptable but a run for no gain means abandon the run game.  If the OL is breaking down anyway, wouldn't you rather the RB take those hits?

 

Anyway to answer the question, I'd say clearly YES he is..    Taylor is a good PR guy.   His highest position before here was OC for the Bearcats and he sucked ass at it.   He would've made more sense as an OC hire, but in hindsight I wouldn't want him there either.  

 

Didn't Mixon get the ball 15 times?  That's not ignoring the running game by modern standards.  Could have mixed in a few hand-offs to Bernard so the other team doesn't know it's a pass as soon as  he comes in.  Taylor is way over his head, but he'll be here until his contract runs out unless something crazy happens.

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Bad analogy, dude. 

Here's a quote from Zac's post-game presser:     Dude... just stop.  You've said this for your entire time here, literally since your first press conference after your first game in 2

1-4-1 is not good enough, but the vast majority of the team is still competing hard for this staff.  It's not a stretch to say they could've or should've won 2 or 3 against LA, Philly, and Indy and tw

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12 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Didn't Mixon get the ball 15 times?  That's not ignoring the running game by modern standards.  Could have mixed in a few hand-offs to Bernard so the other team doesn't know it's a pass as soon as  he comes in.  Taylor is way over his head, but he'll be here until his contract runs out unless something crazy happens.

 

Yeah IDK, often times at the end of games our RB has an ok number of carries, but during the game it seems like an afterthought.  Mixon will hit an 11 yard run, then get another carry for no gain and you won't see him again that quarter.  3rd & 2 and we're out there with an empty backfield.

 

Agree that Taylor is here for his contract at minimum.  If we don't finish 0-15-1 an extension would not surprise me.

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I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think Taylor has a plan and is executing that plan pretty well. We all know that he came into a tough situation. Anyone who thought this team was going to be turned around on a dime was/is a little too hopeful, imo. A lot of this is well known but a little summary might help bring some perspective.

 

1) First year: late hire, inherited a lot of problems from the Marvin regime. Not Taylor's fault that the team was in such bad shape. In addition to having a sub par o-line, I suspect that there was a lot of "mailing it in" from players who had been Bengalized. Taylor's goal? See what he has and what it'll take to get from behind the eight ball.

 

2) Second year: Taylor is making moves. Hard to complain about the off-season activity. Cleaned out some of the dead-weight, emphasizes the culture as a theme with all the moves. Bell, Reader, Daniels all good moves. Smart move tagging AJ even if he has lost a step--continuity and good culture.

 

3) Good draft, too. Charismatic and good QB, Higgins good, and looks like Wilson (at least) will pan out among the lbs. Hard to complain about the draft, imo.

 

4) People here worry that they didn't address the o-line, but they did get Su'aFilo, so they were trying. And because we aren't flies on the wall, we don't know who else they reached out to in free agency. Maybe some of the players they approached didn't want to come to Cincy? Hard to blame a player for acting in his best interest. Anyhow, the theme of going for good players who are also leaders culture-wise is smart and a sign that they are moving in the right direction. And...

 

5) ...now that Burrow is showing he has the "stuff" I suspect that free agent o-linemen will be more interested in coming to Cincy in the future. Bet a lot of guys would like to block for that guy now that he is proving himself.

 

6) I think that a lot of people are jumping the gun or that their expectations were a little high. When I was in my prime, I played a key role in turning one organization around and in creating another from scratch. Shit ain't easy and it takes some time. I suggest stopping to take a deep breath, consider the enormity of the task that Taylor has taken on, and to look for the underlying processes which he seems to be trying to execute. This year was never going to be a playoff year, but it can be, and imo, it will be, a year in which significant progress will be made. From my perspective, the Bengals are, three games in, outperforming in some respects. It's not pretty now, but I bet by the end of the year people will be more comfortable with the direction Taylor is taking this team.

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22 minutes ago, Homer_Rice said:

I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think Taylor has a plan and is executing that plan pretty well. We all know that he came into a tough situation. Anyone who thought this team was going to be turned around on a dime was/is a little too hopeful, imo. A lot of this is well known but a little summary might help bring some perspective.

 

1) First year: late hire, inherited a lot of problems from the Marvin regime. Not Taylor's fault that the team was in such bad shape. In addition to having a sub par o-line, I suspect that there was a lot of "mailing it in" from players who had been Bengalized. Taylor's goal? See what he has and what it'll take to get from behind the eight ball.

 

2) Second year: Taylor is making moves. Hard to complain about the off-season activity. Cleaned out some of the dead-weight, emphasizes the culture as a theme with all the moves. Bell, Reader, Daniels all good moves. Smart move tagging AJ even if he has lost a step--continuity and good culture.

 

3) Good draft, too. Charismatic and good QB, Higgins good, and looks like Wilson (at least) will pan out among the lbs. Hard to complain about the draft, imo.

 

4) People here worry that they didn't address the o-line, but they did get Su'aFilo, so they were trying. And because we aren't flies on the wall, we don't know who else they reached out to in free agency. Maybe some of the players they approached didn't want to come to Cincy? Hard to blame a player for acting in his best interest. Anyhow, the theme of going for good players who are also leaders culture-wise is smart and a sign that they are moving in the right direction. And...

 

5) ...now that Burrow is showing he has the "stuff" I suspect that free agent o-linemen will be more interested in coming to Cincy in the future. Bet a lot of guys would like to block for that guy now that he is proving himself.

 

6) I think that a lot of people are jumping the gun or that their expectations were a little high. When I was in my prime, I played a key role in turning one organization around and in creating another from scratch. Shit ain't easy and it takes some time. I suggest stopping to take a deep breath, consider the enormity of the task that Taylor has taken on, and to look for the underlying processes which he seems to be trying to execute. This year was never going to be a playoff year, but it can be, and imo, it will be, a year in which significant progress will be made. From my perspective, the Bengals are, three games in, outperforming in some respects. It's not pretty now, but I bet by the end of the year people will be more comfortable with the direction Taylor is taking this team.

 

You make good points.  It is very difficult to be patient and optimistic when you have watched the Bengals organization screw up at nearly every opportunity.  The stuff about the OC not knowing about the release of one of his players is the kind of nonsense we expect and are treated to on a regular basis.  I hope you're right, but fear you are wrong.

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30 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

 

You make good points.  It is very difficult to be patient and optimistic when you have watched the Bengals organization screw up at nearly every opportunity.  The stuff about the OC not knowing about the release of one of his players is the kind of nonsense we expect and are treated to on a regular basis.  I hope you're right, but fear you are wrong.

 

We'll see. I'm of the mind that the new regime (Katie, et al.) is different from the older Mike Brown manner of doing things. The role played by the front office is critical and we see signs that they are changing, too. Jury is still out though. Speaking for myself, I'm really enjoying some aspects of this year even when including some of the frustration. On one hand, the team is 0-2-1. On the other hand, the team is 0-2-1 with the added element of being right on the cusp of pulling some rabbits out of the hat. Can they get over the hump of 1 score games? I don't know. But I do know that I am enjoying this team more than any of the late-Marvin teams.

 

Anyhow, my main point is that it's too early to be all gloom-and-doom a little over one year into a three year process.

 

Edit to add: that I understand the disillusionment with respect to the Bengals over the long term. I still cherish the memories of watching Greg Cook at Nippert when I was just a young scooter!

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1 hour ago, Homer_Rice said:

I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think Taylor has a plan and is executing that plan pretty well. We all know that he came into a tough situation. Anyone who thought this team was going to be turned around on a dime was/is a little too hopeful, imo. A lot of this is well known but a little summary might help bring some perspective.

 

1) First year: late hire, inherited a lot of problems from the Marvin regime. Not Taylor's fault that the team was in such bad shape. In addition to having a sub par o-line, I suspect that there was a lot of "mailing it in" from players who had been Bengalized. Taylor's goal? See what he has and what it'll take to get from behind the eight ball.

 

2) Second year: Taylor is making moves. Hard to complain about the off-season activity. Cleaned out some of the dead-weight, emphasizes the culture as a theme with all the moves. Bell, Reader, Daniels all good moves. Smart move tagging AJ even if he has lost a step--continuity and good culture.

 

3) Good draft, too. Charismatic and good QB, Higgins good, and looks like Wilson (at least) will pan out among the lbs. Hard to complain about the draft, imo.

 

4) People here worry that they didn't address the o-line, but they did get Su'aFilo, so they were trying. And because we aren't flies on the wall, we don't know who else they reached out to in free agency. Maybe some of the players they approached didn't want to come to Cincy? Hard to blame a player for acting in his best interest. Anyhow, the theme of going for good players who are also leaders culture-wise is smart and a sign that they are moving in the right direction. And...

 

5) ...now that Burrow is showing he has the "stuff" I suspect that free agent o-linemen will be more interested in coming to Cincy in the future. Bet a lot of guys would like to block for that guy now that he is proving himself.

 

6) I think that a lot of people are jumping the gun or that their expectations were a little high. When I was in my prime, I played a key role in turning one organization around and in creating another from scratch. Shit ain't easy and it takes some time. I suggest stopping to take a deep breath, consider the enormity of the task that Taylor has taken on, and to look for the underlying processes which he seems to be trying to execute. This year was never going to be a playoff year, but it can be, and imo, it will be, a year in which significant progress will be made. From my perspective, the Bengals are, three games in, outperforming in some respects. It's not pretty now, but I bet by the end of the year people will be more comfortable with the direction Taylor is taking this team.

 

 

Yup, none of this is going to be rebuilt overnight. I'm putting him on the hot seat next year, as he will have had time to built what he wants to build.

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I'm not seeing this culture shift at all.  Lack of effort on the field, puzzling roster moves.  If there's a plan beyond "Joe Burrow!" someone explain it to me? We're already talking about year 3..

 

Like.. 3 days? After Taylor's big intro speech about character & rah rah rah, they hired Jim Turner.  I'm still waiting for them to do something to restore my faith in any of that big talk. Hart spent the offseason showing his ass all over social media, he objectively sucks at football but the team ignores it,    

 

Honestly I'm not that hard to convince, I really wanted to believe in this great sea change that was somehow all due to Marvin, but the same FO is making the same decisions..  Maybe I'm wrong, I admit there's a new coat of paint & all but it simply doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

 

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I have mentioned before that the culture change HAS to come from the top down or it will not hold. Small gains may be had like ML accomplished but we saw , in the end, the Mike Brown structure could not keep building it. 

 

To use an old ML line when assessing Taylor "I see better than I hear". 

 

I have no idea if Katie will actually want to invest (note the term is not spend but invest) in a more substantial staff when Mikey strokes out. That is the big question to me. Until then, it just seems like this team, despite renewed effort in some areas, cannot compete with the teams that have larger and smarter staffs. 

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1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I have mentioned before that the culture change HAS to come from the top down or it will not hold. Small gains may be had like ML accomplished but we saw , in the end, the Mike Brown structure could not keep building it. 

 

To use an old ML line when assessing Taylor "I see better than I hear". 

 

I have no idea if Katie will actually want to invest (note the term is not spend but invest) in a more substantial staff when Mikey strokes out. That is the big question to me. Until then, it just seems like this team, despite renewed effort in some areas, cannot compete with the teams that have larger and smarter staffs. 

Well ssid...agree

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2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

he's throwing games. Either for bad bets or the draft position. No one is this inept.

No he's not..

His game plan collapses with this horrible Oline.

Mixon is eluding tacklers as soon as he touches the bsll in the backfield..

AJ needs a year to get seperation now..

The Dline is starting to crack ..

The linebackets are young inexperienced or just mediocre at best..

You talk about a work in progress .

If they dont improve that horrible bunch they call a Oline Unit JB will get crushed so on belief for a NFL QB

theyll never get over this mistake.

 

 

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14 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

he's throwing games. Either for bad bets or the draft position. No one is this inept.

 

Disagree. He is indeed this inept. He's the guy who didn't have the field swept before the practice at Dayton last year where Green got hurt. What exactly is the evidence that Taylor knows what he is doing and is even a minimally competent NFL coach? I haven't seen it. 

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4 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

Disagree. He is indeed this inept. He's the guy who didn't have the field swept before the practice at Dayton last year where Green got hurt. What exactly is the evidence that Taylor knows what he is doing and is even a minimally competent NFL coach? I haven't seen it. 

He wasn't ready for this opportunity and this is a paid internship for Taylor where he gets to learn from failures, but we the fans and unfortunately Joe Burrow are literally suffering through it.

 

Just look at the win percentage of Taylor(13%) compared to every other coach in the NFL, it's not good. He's worse than Hue Jackson( 21%) and nowhere near Marvin (52%). 

 

I know Taylor hasn't had an easy go but his team's have proven to be inconsistent when it comes to blocking and tackling. 

 

If you can't consistently do those two fundamental aspects of playing football how good is your system/program/way of coaching/ whatever cliche ...?

 

 

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3 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

He wasn't ready for this opportunity and this is a paid internship for Taylor where he gets to learn from failures, but we the fans and unfortunately Joe Burrow are literally suffering through it.

 

Just look at the win percentage of Taylor(13%) compared to every other coach in the NFL, it's not good. He's worse than Hue Jackson( 21%) and nowhere near Marvin (52%). 

 

I know Taylor hasn't had an easy go but his team's have proven to be inconsistent when it comes to blocking and tackling. 

 

If you can't consistently do those two fundamental aspects of playing football how good is your system/program/way of coaching/ whatever cliche ...?

 

 

If Mike Brown would read that he'd be looking up the word "Blocking"...

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The idea that a young QB coach with only limited  Offensive or Defensive coordinator experience at a 2nd tier college football program would actually be selected to be the head coach of an NFL team is simply laughable. 
 

it is like promoting a Captain in the Army to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  Zac also has nothing close to a Wade Phillips as his right hand man  like Sean McVay did on the Rams. 
 

The Chiefs spent big money on a highly respected successful coach. The Bengals spent peanuts on someone from team that had 1 great year. 

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3 hours ago, SF2 said:

The idea that a young QB coach with only limited  Offensive or Defensive coordinator experience at a 2nd tier college football program would actually be selected to be the head coach of an NFL team is simply laughable. 
 

it is like promoting a Captain in the Army to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  Zac also has nothing close to a Wade Phillips as his right hand man  like Sean McVay did on the Rams. 
 

The Chiefs spent big money on a highly respected successful coach. The Bengals spent peanuts on someone from team that had 1 great year. 

First thought I had when I read this. To outsiders, that guy was a mere Division CoS in 1940. To insiders, he was a respected up-and-comer.

 

To the point: I don't know what Taylor's reputation was among his peers in Feb, 2019, but I do know that he's only been on the job for 20 months. Under some pretty challenging circumstances. I'm not saying that we should anoint him as some kind of savior. I am saying that too many of you people want to throw him under the bus prematurely. I don't have any insider information, but I'm almost certain that Taylor and Bengals management, during the interview process, discussed a likely timeline as a reasonable measure of success or failure. And I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't 3 games into his second year. I'd also be willing to bet that it was along the lines of 3 years. Because in the real world it takes that long to see results from a major organizational change of this kind. I know this to be true.

 

So, everybody chill out, enjoy the bumpy ride this year, and wait to see if this team is a playoff-contender next year. If it isn't by the end of 2021, then maybe some of this whining and complaining might be justified.

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3 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

I'd also be willing to bet that it was along the lines of 3 years. Because in the real world it takes that long to see results from a major organizational change of this kind. I know this to be true.

 

 

I think you're right about that, however next year will be Year 3.  Does this team look like it's going to be competing for anything next year?  I doubt 3 years to achieve the mere hope of 8-8 football wasn't their plan.  It sure sounds like a Bengals plan though...

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1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

I think you're right about that, however next year will be Year 3.  Does this team look like it's going to be competing for anything next year?  I doubt 3 years to achieve the mere hope of 8-8 football wasn't their plan.  It sure sounds like a Bengals plan though...

 

 

We are a RT and RG away from having a decent enough line to let Burrow do his thing. We also need to address how bad the run D is, but I feel like that's a good linebacker away as well. If they spend like they did this offseason, then yes I think year 3 is Taylor's "make it or break it" year as I think playoffs next year is very reasonable depending on what they do in the offseason.

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5 hours ago, Homer_Rice said:

First thought I had when I read this. To outsiders, that guy was a mere Division CoS in 1940. To insiders, he was a respected up-and-comer.

 

To the point: I don't know what Taylor's reputation was among his peers in Feb, 2019, but I do know that he's only been on the job for 20 months. Under some pretty challenging circumstances. I'm not saying that we should anoint him as some kind of savior. I am saying that too many of you people want to throw him under the bus prematurely. I don't have any insider information, but I'm almost certain that Taylor and Bengals management, during the interview process, discussed a likely timeline as a reasonable measure of success or failure. And I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't 3 games into his second year. I'd also be willing to bet that it was along the lines of 3 years. Because in the real world it takes that long to see results from a major organizational change of this kind. I know this to be true.

 

So, everybody chill out, enjoy the bumpy ride this year, and wait to see if this team is a playoff-contender next year. If it isn't by the end of 2021, then maybe some of this whining and complaining might be justified.

Look, when your owner has a reputation of being cheap and a history of hiring ill equipped coaches the fans are going to  look for the signs they are used to seeing.  The signs are there.  0-10-1 in one score games?  Sounds like the Bengals are competitive now, but don't know how to win.  How is that going to change?  Management cuts players without telling OC?  Why would anyone conisider Zach Taylor a respected up and comer?  He's good in front of a microphone.  Probably good in an interview as well. What has he accomplished?  Very little.  He was cheap and he shmoozed the old man, which is the number one skill needed to coach the Bengals. 

 

If this was a solid franchise your message would hold water.  This isn't a solid franchise.  It's Mike Brown's franchise and its history speaks for itself.  If you really want to get depressed/pissed off read Mike Browns Wikipedia page.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(American_football_executive)

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45 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

We are a RT and RG away from having a decent enough line to let Burrow do his thing. We also need to address how bad the run D is, but I feel like that's a good linebacker away as well. If they spend like they did this offseason, then yes I think year 3 is Taylor's "make it or break it" year as I think playoffs next year is very reasonable depending on what they do in the offseason.

 

 

If you think this team is just 3 players away from a postseason run I think you're going to be very disappointed.  

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30 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Look, when your owner has a reputation of being cheap and a history of hiring ill equipped coaches the fans are going to  look for the signs they are used to seeing.  The signs are there.  0-10-1 in one score games?  Sounds like the Bengals are competitive now, but don't know how to win.  How is that going to change?  Management cuts players without telling OC?  Why would anyone conisider Zach Taylor a respected up and comer?  He's good in front of a microphone.  Probably good in an interview as well. What has he accomplished?  Very little.  He was cheap and he shmoozed the old man, which is the number one skill needed to coach the Bengals. 

 

If this was a solid franchise your message would hold water.  This isn't a solid franchise.  It's Mike Brown's franchise and its history speaks for itself.  If you really want to get depressed/pissed off read Mike Browns Wikipedia page.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(American_football_executive)

 

Lol. You got me. I don't know much about business, or how to do research, or how to work on continually improving my judgment as I get older. I'm too busy falling off turnip trucks to do any of that stuff.

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