Cleveland Football Team Week (Part 2)

[Le Tigre]

 

 

[Jamie_B]

Why? Why do we want to win? We're eliminated at this point. Can we root for a higher draft pick now? 

[Spotto]

No, we need to get the Browns number in readiness for next season.

[New Jersey Bengal]

36 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

 

 

Going with my son and daughter last game I went to Dalton was the qb 

[saphead]

Go fucking Lions, that's all I gotta say. There are no likeable teams in the AFC side of things. 

[spicoli]

24 minutes ago, Spotto said:

No, we need to get the Browns number in readiness for next season.

No truer words

[Griever]

8 minutes ago, saphead said:

Go fucking Lions, that's all I gotta say. There are no likeable teams in the AFC side of things. 

Yep, all in on the Lions at this point. They were essentially the Bengals of the NFC for many years and now look like they have a bright future.

[TigerJ@w]

Players that are questionable, need to not play.  Why risk an injury for a game that is meaningless.  

[Griever]

Yeah I wanna see all the young guys play, shelve everyone else of importance

[New Jersey Bengal]

6 minutes ago, Griever said:

Yeah I wanna see all the young guys play, shelve everyone else of importance

Jones iosavias Chase brown

[|BlackJesus|]

Need to sit all the starters. No reason to risk injury on a meaningless game. 

 

Use the game to see which backups are worth keeping. 

[Jamie_B]

30 minutes ago, BlackJesus said:

Need to sit all the starters. No reason to risk injury on a meaningless game. 

 

Use the game to see which backups are worth keeping. 

 

This. We lost reader for a full year. It would be stupid to play anyone that would hurt us if we lost them for any length of time in a meaningless game.

[|High School Harry|]

10 hours ago, New Jersey Bengal said:

Jones iosavias Chase brown

A.J. McCarron

no 

[|High School Harry|]

Long range forecast...

High 41º... Mostly Cloudy... 0% chance of rain.
Sure.  Why not?

[Le Tigre]

Like achieving a winning season record is a “meaningless game”? 
 

Ask Carolina if they would take it? Oh wait…no they would be too busy relying on mortgaged future high holy draft picks that are worse than useless. Why bother? 

[Le Tigre]

11 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Why? Why do we want to win? We're eliminated at this point. Can we root for a higher draft pick now? 

You have been rooting for this since Nov 16.

 

What is the difference in High Holy Draft Picks between 9-8 and 8-9? What does having a winning season record do to a player’s psyche compared to being called a “loser”? What coveted FA’s are interested in a fan culture more interested in losing than winning? 
 

Amortize the plus/minuses in terms of the large picture. 

[esjbh2]

2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

You have been rooting for this since Nov 16.

 

What is the difference in High Holy Draft Picks between 9-8 and 8-9? What does having a winning season record do to a player’s psyche compared to being called a “loser”? What coveted FA’s are interested in a fan culture more interested in losing than winning? 
 

Amortize the plus/minuses in terms of the large picture. 

There are also a number of individual and team "milestones" up for grabs in this game (Team winning record as you said, Mixon near 1000 yds, Chase near 100 receptions, etc)...not to mention the beloved annual dead cat bounce.  That said, I'd like to see the young guns get some enhanced playing time.

[Le Tigre]

4 minutes ago, esjbh2 said:

There are also a number of individual and team "milestones" up for grabs in this game (Team winning record as you said, Mixon near 1000 yds, Chase near 100 receptions, etc)...not to mention the beloved annual dead cat bounce.  That said, I'd like to see the young guns get some enhanced playing time.

The DCB isn’t really a factor. As posted above, of course do not play someone who is already hurt and/or on the border. Of that, there is consensus. 
 

But the poppycock of treating this like the last preseason game in August, doesn’t apply. The “young guns” have already been playing. If the idea is to put D’Ante Smith, Jackson Carman, or all of the other inactive/non-playing scrubs to “see what they have”, has already been answered—not much. 
 

And for the Draft Lust: it looks to be a difference between Pick 14 and Pick 17. Could be different based on all of the qualifiers, but tanking a game for the sake of 3-4 draft slots, is really marginal. 
 

I won’t post Herm Edwards again, but it still is the objective. 
 

 

[Jamie_B]

3 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

You have been rooting for this since Nov 16.

 

What is the difference in High Holy Draft Picks between 9-8 and 8-9? What does having a winning season record do to a player’s psyche compared to being called a “loser”? What coveted FA’s are interested in a fan culture more interested in losing than winning? 
 

Amortize the plus/minuses in terms of the large picture. 

 

The mere fact that we have Joey B brings us in free agents. That cannot be understated. But we also have to realize that we just paid the man and because of that there is only so much money to go around. That means from here on our we are going to have to do the majority of out team building through the draft. If you doubt that look at the guys we signed this offseason. The Nick Scott's of the world.

 

So because of that it behooves us to get the highest pick when Joe went down.

 

Because Cincinnati doesn't have a basketball team anymore and because I lived in San Antonio for a while I became a casual Spurs fan, David Robinson was easy to root for as a good human (not to mention I would later go-to the high-school he graduated from). The year he got a season ending injury the Spurs sucked bad enough to end up in the lottery and end up with the number one pick. They would draft Tim Duncan and the rest is history. Do you think anyone on that Spurs team was so mentally weak that it effected their play the next year or that free agents decided not to come there? No. 

 

You don't get better after you pay your QB if your drafting in the middle of the draft. You stay stagnet. There is plenty of evidence for this. Look at Tomlins Steelers. Always a winning season, and always not making or losing in the first round of the playoffs. Look at the Bills. They have struggled to find draft picks to help Josh Allen.

 

It's fun to root for Jake and he did well, but we are near the bottom in most defensive categories, we can't run the ball effectively most weeks, our o-line is medorcre at best and we are like going to lose Tee in a year, and Boyd this year. We had an opportunity to get the higher pick and restock some of that with players that are more likely to impact sooner because that's what top of the draft picks typically do. But rooting to win a meaningless game to let guys feel good about themselves means they aren't very mentally tough to begin with, which is a whole other issue when it comes to winning football games.

 

So that is my bigger picture thinking. Question my Fandom and loyalty if you like, but to be blunt, I've been following this team since the days of Boomer and Icky, I post maybe more than I should on a fan board for this point going into decades. Anyone calling me a bandwagon because I see this rationally and see the history of how teams get built and how we are a bit hamstrung because of ownerships refusal to expand the scouting department and front office making that even tougher. Looks a bit foolish.

 

[Jamie_B]

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

And for the Draft Lust: it looks to be a difference between Pick 14 and Pick 17. Could be different based on all of the qualifiers, but tanking a game for the sake of 3-4 draft slots, is really marginal. 

 

If it's the difference between getting Billy Price or Frank Ragnow sign me up

[|SF2|]

3 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

You have been rooting for this since Nov 16.

 

What is the difference in High Holy Draft Picks between 9-8 and 8-9? What does having a winning season record do to a player’s psyche compared to being called a “loser”? What coveted FA’s are interested in a fan culture more interested in losing than winning? 
 

Amortize the plus/minuses in terms of the large picture. 

LOL, you actually think our starters care about their record if they are NOT in the playoffs?  Did you watch the last game?  The organization has to do what is best for the organization and that means not losing any more starters under contract to injury before the draft. 

[Le Tigre]

8 minutes ago, SF2 said:

LOL, you actually think our starters care about their record if they are NOT in the playoffs?  Did you watch the last game?  The organization has to do what is best for the organization and that means not losing any more starters under contract to injury before the draft. 

It’s OK. They probably don’t care. But, let’s say their contract cares…like incentives, etc. If it means not getting that extra $100k—you don’t think they will be telling ZT: “put me in coach”? Will they trade their loot for Mr Middle of the Draft hope-he-turns-out-OK prospect? You know that answer. 
 

ZT/Coaches also could have “reach this/that” goals in their contracts. 
 

And honestly—after seeing this many years of Michael Brown (plus his familial hatred of whatever team calls themselves “the Browns”) think he is going to order a deliberate tank? 
 

 

[|SF2|]

3 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

It’s OK. They probably don’t care. But, let’s say their contract cares…like incentives, etc. If it means not getting that extra $100k—you don’t think they will be telling ZT: “put me in coach”? Will they trade their loot for Mr Middle of the Draft hope-he-turns-out-OK prospect? You know that answer. 
 

ZT/Coaches also could have “reach this/that” goals in their contracts. 
 

And honestly—after seeing this many years of Michael Brown (plus his familial hatred of whatever team calls themselves “the Browns”) think he is going to order a deliberate tank? 
 

 

And if there are incentives then they can tell the coaches they want to play.  If they are denied they can talk to the players’ Union rep.  And the Bengals are not know for intentionally screwing players like that. 
 

If you know of someone that is in this exact situation on the team then do tell, I have not heard of any such issue. 
 

My guess is the coaches and management are sitting down and making the best decisions for the organization and players concerning next weekend.   Assuming ownership is evil gets old. 

[esjbh2]

2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

The DCB isn’t really a factor. As posted above, of course do not play someone who is already hurt and/or on the border. Of that, there is consensus. 
 

But the poppycock of treating this like the last preseason game in August, doesn’t apply. The “young guns” have already been playing. If the idea is to put D’Ante Smith, Jackson Carman, or all of the other inactive/non-playing scrubs to “see what they have”, has already been answered—not much. 
 

And for the Draft Lust: it looks to be a difference between Pick 14 and Pick 17. Could be different based on all of the qualifiers, but tanking a game for the sake of 3-4 draft slots, is really marginal. 
 

I won’t post Herm Edwards again, but it still is the objective. 
 

The DCB is simply inherent in my fandom DNA at this point after enduring so many years of it...sorry.  Agree it may not be applicable the same way it was back in the dark days, but to me it is still a thing.  If for no other reason than the Bengals are not in the playoffs, lost the last couple games in disappointing fashion, and a win against CFT would be a "gee we ended on an encouraging up note to give us hope/momentum/marketingSpin" during the off-season.

 

Yeah, the "see what they have" is not what I was referring to and the preseason analogy doesn't really fit for me either.  I'm thinking more about the skill positions and letting the younger guys who do have a future here get some valuable real in-season game experience and some real stats to boot.  I want to watch Chase Brown be the feature back for an entire game...I want to watch a whole game where WR's don't include Chase, Higgins, and Boyd...I especially want to see Yoshi play an entire game as a featured WR.  I'm not opposed to letting AJ QB.  I want the coaches to spend the week developing a game plan with those players as key personnel for the entire game.  That doesn't happen in preseason games where players are rotated ad-hoc between promising rooks and future insurance salesmen playing against other future insurance salesmen with little, if any, game plan involved.

 

I agree with you on the draft stuff.  I get Jaime's (and others) point, I respect his (and others) viewpoint, I don't dispute their "fandom", and arguably it is the smart and logical thing to do to improve the team going forward.  However, at least to me, sports should be about competing, passion, and always playing to win.  I simply don't like the idea of "tanking for a better pick" regardless of how much sense it makes on paper.  You play the game to win...it's sports...it's a game...it's "Any Given Sunday".  Drafting is still a crap shoot in my opinion regardless of draft position, especially with the Bengal's luck/past at the positions of need, so the difference between 14 & 17 (or whatever) is not really a concern to me.

 

[Spotto]

16 minutes ago, esjbh2 said:

  I want the coaches to spend the week developing a game plan with those players as key personnel for the entire game. 

And this is the problem with this argument!    Sorry, had to pipe in as our coaches only gameplan every second week.