Al Golden - Hired Guy

[sparky151]

3 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Pass rushers can make a corners task alot easier.

If opposing WBs get the time even Patrick Surtain or Sauce Gardner

couldn't hang..

Another consideration is Stopping the Run..

We have Jackson at NT...would look like to see a player such as NT Kenneth Grant in the mix..

 

 

You sound like BJ when it comes to Grant. He's a big guy with some athleticism who is hard to move. But he's also not a great football player, certainly not as good as Graham nor as good as Jenkins was in 2023. Yet Jenkins was fairly mid last season. 

1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

If we signed two vets I would still draft 2 , we need backups as well and we virtually have none. They can develop or replace if they play better. 
 

The OL room need significant talent upgrades and numbers of better players as well. 

 

You want to sign 2 vets to upgrade from Volson and Cappa, then draft 2 more? That seems like overkill and at least 1 of the rookies would likely not make the 53. I'd re-sign Ford and use him and Volson as the backups. Sign a couple of veteran upgrades and use the draft picks on defense and 1 at RB.

 

[T-Dub]

Draft or FA, they've been pretty much dogshit at evaluating OL. 

 

But, since this is a thread about our new defensive coordinator, there's Sheldon Rankins.  He came in and called out sick for the season..  Stone looks like we poached the worst player off the Ravens defense.  Von Bell was washed when he left the first time. Carolina was willing to eat $10M in dead cap to watch him play somewhere else.

 

We really need this guy to hit on some defensive playmakers in the later rounds.

[dex]

2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

You want to sign 2 vets to upgrade from Volson and Cappa, then draft 2 more? That seems like overkill and at least 1 of the rookies would likely not make the 53. I'd re-sign Ford and use him and Volson as the backups. Sign a couple of veteran upgrades and use the draft picks on defense and 1 at RB.

 

If they fail to resign Higgins, they will need to draft at least one WR too. That would seem like a must for a team that throws the ball as much as the Bengals.

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, dex said:

If they fail to resign Higgins, they will need to draft at least one WR too. That would seem like a must for a team that throws the ball as much as the Bengals.

 

If they expected to draft his replacement that should've happened 2 years ago.   They'd be very, very lucky to get another Tee at #17.  The idea they were going to do that with a "steal" of a 3rd round pick was some kind of ridiculous drunken gambler's fantasy.  Would love to know who made that pick. Never mind reach, he should've been off their board entirely.  If it's true Father Brown is out of the picture, who is trying to rehabilitate all these self-destructive immature anger issues?

 

But since this is a thread about the new DC:  They've done alright with late first round DBs.  It may not be the biggest need but it may be the best value with this "scouting department". That safety from Notre Dome sounds likely, if he grades into the first round on his measurables.

 

Defensive line would be a whole lot cooler but I expect they'd need to trade up if they don't want to settle for "Best of the Rest" quality.  There could be 4-5 DL gone in the Top 10. Bargain shopping in the draft has been a disaster. Gamble when there's a solid roster in place.  They need people that show up every day & act like they belong there, on or off the field, even if they are solid B to C+ talent.  These are the safe, if less exciting mid-round picks they've been trading away for magic beans.  Right now they're much better off with a plain old cow.

 

Zimmer got us Geno Atkins in the 4th round.  No pressure.

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

this signing has come as a shock. i am going to dig into some research and learn the most i can about him. 

[Inigo Montoya]

8 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Question

 

Are you super excited that Golden is D

Im feeling more of a wait and see with him.

Hoping for the best.

Reserving judgment for now, but it’ll be hard to be worse than the last two years.  
 

They just need to play complimentary football, as Golden himself has said.  

[I_C_Deadpeople]

6 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

You sound like BJ when it comes to Grant. He's a big guy with some athleticism who is hard to move. But he's also not a great football player, certainly not as good as Graham nor as good as Jenkins was in 2023. Yet Jenkins was fairly mid last season. 

 

You want to sign 2 vets to upgrade from Volson and Cappa, then draft 2 more? That seems like overkill and at least 1 of the rookies would likely not make the 53. I'd re-sign Ford and use him and Volson as the backups. Sign a couple of veteran upgrades and use the draft picks on defense and 1 at RB.

 

Overkill? We barely have starters let alone backups and one of the draftees could kick Volson off the roster. Plus you have to account for possible injuries, we lost several lineman early this year and then depth was again an issue. Other than Lee and Ford who are our valid backups?

[T-Dub]

16 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Overkill? We barely have starters let alone backups and one of the draftees could kick Volson off the roster. Plus you have to account for possible injuries, we lost several lineman early this year and then depth was again an issue. Other than Lee and Ford who are our valid backups?

 

Ford isn't even on the team.  Maybe they get him back, maybe not.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

Just now, T-Dub said:

 

Ford isn't even on the team.  Maybe they get him back, maybe not.

And Lee and Kirkland are unproven . 

[texbengal]

20 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

If we signed two vets I would still draft 2 , we need backups as well and we virtually have none. They can develop or replace if they play better. 
 

The OL room need significant talent upgrades and numbers of better players as well. 

Right, especially interior. Really, if they just spent the entire draft on DL and OL, it’d be warranted.
 

That said, gotta believe they wouldn’t - because there are other needs, and they’d address some of that trenches need via FA. Speaking of, it will be interesting to see what "types" the new staff wants. PDJ talked about how the local media pegged Lou, as far as the prototype edge (for example), so much so they could cull through the list of prospects and pinpoint likely Bengal choices. 

[sparky151]

13 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Overkill? We barely have starters let alone backups and one of the draftees could kick Volson off the roster. Plus you have to account for possible injuries, we lost several lineman early this year and then depth was again an issue. Other than Lee and Ford who are our valid backups?

 

Lee isn't a guard, he's a center only player. I'd like Ford and Volson as the backups. And a couple of FA vets as the starters. If we draft a rookie who displaces Volson, fine, but we might need that pick at another position. 

[I_C_Deadpeople]

15 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Lee isn't a guard, he's a center only player. I'd like Ford and Volson as the backups. And a couple of FA vets as the starters. If we draft a rookie who displaces Volson, fine, but we might need that pick at another position. 

The other factor is - there is a serious shortage of good NFL OL. So, that means the goods ones are high priced so it makes sense to try and draft and develop. If we spent our first 4 picks on 2 OL and a DT and a DE, I am at a loss as to say how that would not benefit greatly for the next 5 years. 

[claptonrocks]

3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

The other factor is - there is a serious shortage of good NFL OL. So, that means the goods ones are high priced so it makes sense to try and draft and develop. If we spent our first 4 picks on 2 OL and a DT and a DE, I am at a loss as to say how that would not benefit greatly for the next 5 years. 

Drafting linemen in the early rounds is transparent

.Why they wouldn't depends on Who's on the board 

in that round.

Free agent signings would alleviate some of those decisions .

[LostInDaJungle]

On 1/24/2025 at 10:58 AM, sparky151 said:

Seems unlikely they let Cappa stay when they could save money while upgrading by replacing him.

We are talking about our "We honor our contracts" FO. Agree or disagree with that philosophy, I think there's a very strong chance that they do keep Cappa. And Hubbard.

[LostInDaJungle]

I think this OL coach is going to want some younger players that he can coach up and mold. I'd look for them to take a late LT/LG and some youth on the IOL as well.

There might be some nice upside to letting him take some promising 6th/7th round guys and develop them.

The defense needs an infusion of FA vets, the Offense needs to stock the cupboard for when the big cap hits to kick in.

Whatever was going on at the start of last year wasn't as much a case of  CTB, et. al. not being a least decent players. Dax Hill and DJ Turner come back...

[|High School Harry|]

31 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Drafting linemen in the early rounds is transparent

.Why they wouldn't depends on Who's on the board 

in that round.

Free agent signings would alleviate some of those decisions .

Still gets down to who and how much?

[I_C_Deadpeople]

33 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Drafting linemen in the early rounds is transparent

.Why they wouldn't depends on Who's on the board 

in that round.

Free agent signings would alleviate some of those decisions .

If you don’t draft OL early that is also transparent. Fact remains, we need a lot of talent up front from both FA and the draft. 

[sparky151]

5 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

The other factor is - there is a serious shortage of good NFL OL. So, that means the goods ones are high priced so it makes sense to try and draft and develop. If we spent our first 4 picks on 2 OL and a DT and a DE, I am at a loss as to say how that would not benefit greatly for the next 5 years. 

 

I'm not suggesting they pay up for top tier guards. I'm suggesting they sign middle of the pack vets. Who would be significant improvements over our bottom tier starters from last season. Risner+Tomlinson made less than Cappa last year. They can upgrade both positions, improve Burrow's chances of playing through the season and therefore the team's chances, and save money. Win-win-win.

 

1 hour ago, LostInDaJungle said:

We are talking about our "We honor our contracts" FO. Agree or disagree with that philosophy, I think there's a very strong chance that they do keep Cappa. And Hubbard.

 

I suspect they can't hide behind that lie much longer. Burrow has pretty much called them out on not getting Chase and Higgins extended already. Keeping expensive deadwood around is a bad idea if the team wants to win. Whether they really want to win enough to change their modus operandi has been an open question for years but even the Brown family knows they have a good thing going with Burrow and shouldn't make him want to go elsewhere.

 

1 hour ago, LostInDaJungle said:

I think this OL coach is going to want some younger players that he can coach up and mold. I'd look for them to take a late LT/LG and some youth on the IOL as well.

There might be some nice upside to letting him take some promising 6th/7th round guys and develop them.

The defense needs an infusion of FA vets, the Offense needs to stock the cupboard for when the big cap hits to kick in.

Whatever was going on at the start of last year wasn't as much a case of  CTB, et. al. not being a least decent players. Dax Hill and DJ Turner come back...

 

Eh, the FA class on defense isn't as good as last year. There are some edge rushers and a lot of journeyman types at other positions. We need some vet DTs to rotate with Jackson and Jenkins. We need a couple of LBs to replace ADG and maybe Pratt. We could find a better FS than Stone if they want to spend 10 mil, which they probably don't. I'll guess they count extending Chase, Higgins, and Hendrickson as their top priorities, let Gesicki go, and sign some middle of the pack vets for guard and D-line.

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

 

I'm not suggesting they pay up for top tier guards. I'm suggesting they sign middle of the pack vets. Who would be significant improvements over our bottom tier starters from last season. Risner+Tomlinson made less than Cappa last year. They can upgrade both positions, improve Burrow's chances of playing through the season and therefore the team's chances, and save money. Win-win-win

 

 

 

Even middle of the pack OL are going to cost.  They can still get it done, but not if they intend to pay Hubbard $10M to rehab a knee injury at age 30 and Rankins another $11M to do - IDK what exactly? at age 31.  Their website lists him as a DT which must come as a surprise to any of the opposing OL we faced this season. I expect they will take advantage of the out clause in his contract, leaving him with a nice $8M just for putting on the uniform a few times.  Woof. Yeah, who are we to criticize this FO?

 

Anyhow.. $21 mil off the books would certainly cover a pretty good FA guard, assuming this current group knows what a pretty good FA guard looks like.  With another $8M or so due Cappa that's the possibility of replacing him with an actual difference-maker, but that's asking a lot for how they've scouted talent recently.  I'd be satisfied with an OK player that can show up for all 17+ games.

 

 

[dex]

The problem the Bengals face is that they place a value on a free agent and refuse to budge. The upcoming free agent class isn't a particularly strong one, but there are a lot of bad teams with new GMs/coaches with a ton of salary cap space to overpay this FA class. Teams like the Patriots, the Raiders, the Bears ,etc. all have huge OL needs and tons of money to spend to accelerate their rebuilds.  

[T-Dub]

49 minutes ago, dex said:

The problem the Bengals face is that they place a value on a free agent and refuse to budge. The upcoming free agent class isn't a particularly strong one, but there are a lot of bad teams with new GMs/coaches with a ton of salary cap space to overpay this FA class. Teams like the Patriots, the Raiders, the Bears ,etc. all have huge OL needs and tons of money to spend to accelerate their rebuilds.  

 

Free agency is the penalty they pay for drafting poorly.  Perhaps a scouting department on par with NFL standards would make overspending for marginal free agents less likely?  Either way, there are only two sources for players in the NFL and they've been failing quite a bit at the affordable option.  That leaves FA.

 

Or, they can poor-mouth, let players like Bates or Higgins walk, force backup-quality players like Volson into starting positions, and accept the losses that come with it.

 

There really isn't a 3rd option other than sell the team.  There's no Good Boy Points clause within the CBA.

 

 

[-GoBengals-]

On 1/24/2025 at 7:54 PM, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Overkill? We barely have starters let alone backups and one of the draftees could kick Volson off the roster. Plus you have to account for possible injuries, we lost several lineman early this year and then depth was again an issue. Other than Lee and Ford who are our valid backups?

 

depth is an issue for everyone, there are 160 starting linemen in the league, and ther are like 80 good linemen in the league.

 

On 1/24/2025 at 8:11 PM, T-Dub said:

 

Ford isn't even on the team.  Maybe they get him back, maybe not.

 

i keep forgetting this, partially becuase bengals folks keep talking like he is locked in for next year, which is interesting

 

On 1/24/2025 at 8:12 PM, I_C_Deadpeople said:

And Lee and Kirkland are unproven . 

 

everyone is unproven if they arent a starter somewhere. 

 

On 1/25/2025 at 9:44 AM, I_C_Deadpeople said:

The other factor is - there is a serious shortage of good NFL OL. So, that means the goods ones are high priced so it makes sense to try and draft and develop. If we spent our first 4 picks on 2 OL and a DT and a DE, I am at a loss as to say how that would not benefit greatly for the next 5 years. 

 

there we go, on the same page, there is the top tier 20-30mil a year guys, then a small bid range 10-15mil guys, then a shit pile of random scraps everyone is tossing together to hope they can gel with the few decent linemen they have.

 

im continuing to hear rumblings about Cappa being injured the last 1-1.5 years and some people on the team dont think he is going to recover from whatever it is. cant seem to dig up any further details on it though.

[New Jersey Bengal]

Cappa had had a bad ankle for a while

[Griever]

 

 

[texbengal]

Had heard Burks was coming back... wasn't sure about Kovacs. WIll be interesting to see what Golden does with the LBs... since that's what he coached here, and in Detroit too.

 

They need help there. Arguably, Wilson is the only one that's worth a damn and I'm not even sure who else is under contract. He had Pratt playing well in the SB year so maybe he can resurrect that. But they have no proven depth... although the last few games, Heyward did flash a bit.