Bill Polian: Questioning Bengals' success 'absurd'

[Arkansas Bengal]

Bill Polian: Questioning Bengals' success 'absurd'

 

Jim Owczarski, jowczarski@enquirer.com 3:46 p.m. EDT May 17, 2015

 

(Photo: Kevin Hoffman-USA TODAY Sports)

 

Few teams in the AFC have been as consistent as the Cincinnati Bengals since 2011, beginning with head coach Marvin Lewis and quarterback Andy Dalton: A division-leading 40 wins, a total surpassed by only New England and Denver, and four straight playoff appearances.

Of course, the knock on that consistency has been the annual early exit from the playoffs.

While it may create frustration within the fan base, at least one Hall of Fame architect with five Super Bowl appearances on his resume says he feels the Bengals need to continue down the path they are currently on.

"The idea that – because you go to the playoffs two years in a row and you don't win the Super Bowl in the third year – that you should blow up the franchise and start over, dismiss everyone and view those three playoff appearances as failures, is absurd," said Bill Polian, the former general manager of the Buffalo Bills, Carolina Panthers and Indianapolis Colts.

"It is beyond absurd. It has no relationship to reality."

Polian, who is currently an NFL analyst at ESPN and was part of the network's extensive draft coverage, has appreciated the long view the Bengals have taken in its draft-and-develop strategy since 2011.  Especially since the Bengals have been drafting late in rounds.

"The loudest and most absurd position sometimes gets to the front of the line when it comes to people paying attention to them, (but it) doesn't mean they're right," Polian said. "The way the Bengals approach it, the way the (Green Bay) Packers approach it, the way we approached it in Indianapolis, is the right way to do it."

The Bengals continued on that path in 2015, selecting offensive tackles Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher in the first two rounds even with established veterans presently manning those spots.

Over the last four drafts, the team has also stockpiled cornerbacks, found immediate starters on the interior of the offensive line and late round gems at safety and wide receiver.

"You've got to draft the right guy, and then you've got to do the right things with him, develop him," Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin said. "That's one thing we've been really good at, bringing them along at the pace that they can handle, developing them and then letting them slide in and play. It's not just drafting them. It's about what you do with them when you get them."

To this point, Polian says he sees nothing wrong with what the Bengals have done strategically in the draft, or in developing that new talent.

Forty wins and four playoff appearances prove enough to him.

So what of the angst within the Bengals fan base?

Is it because Dalton isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?

"Well, I suspect that's where it comes from," Polian said. "It doesn't change the fact that it's absurd. In my humble opinion."

Polian also approved of team president Mike Brown's willingness to continue Lewis' tenure in the name of consistency. The most striking evidence being that the team has not only rebounded from the valley of 2006-08 when it went 19-28, but the Bengals have maintained a playoff-caliber level of play since. 

"This is an outstanding team that's well coached and well managed – their time will come," Polian said. "You don't win a Super Bowl overnight. And sometimes it takes some bumps in the road and some difficulty to get there. We certainly had that in Indianapolis. All you can do is put a winning product out there, a playoff team out there, and if you're doing that you're doing the right thing."

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/05/17/bengals-bill-polian/27479191/

[|Numbers|]

It's absurd. Can't wait for the YouTube video with Polian screaming " It's absurd... "

[Cricket]

It's absurd. Can't wait for the YouTube video with Polian screaming " It's absurd... "

...or Hitler.

:ninja:

[COB]

Who is advocating the Bengals, "blow up the franchise and start over," as Polian puts it?

[membengal]

Who is advocating the Bengals, "blow up the franchise and start over," as Polian puts it?

 

I am guessing that's how he interprets calls to improve the QB position. Otherwise, his straw man is very full of straw.

[cincity]

A lot of ppl are calling for a new QB, coach, cut a lot of the vet players, doing that is basically blowing up and starting over.

[Le Tigre]

...or Hitler.

:ninja:

 

Or Lee Elia

[Big Alice]

A lot of ppl are calling for a new QB, coach, cut a lot of the vet players, doing that is basically blowing up and starting over.

+1

[|Tigers Johnson|]

A lot of ppl are calling for a new QB, coach, cut a lot of the vet players, doing that is basically blowing up and starting over.

This.....

[Khatmandude]

Who are all these vets people are wanting to cut?  I've heard some talking about Peko, maybe Hall but thats more of a desire to see him get his contract restructured, but who are all the vets people are screaming for to be cut? 

 

The suggestions I've heard are: Replace mediocre QB, can't be that hard to find someone to give you what Dalton gives you....he has no unique skill set whatsoever.   The other is replace Marvin.  With the people in place currently, that's not a huge change either.  Undoubtedly the offensive/defensive philosophies would stay the same and the next HC could very well be on the current staff already.  These aren't changes that say total rebuild.  That's tweaking things a bit, nothing more.

 

You people are so damn traumatized by the '90s

 

And for the record, I don't want Marvin fired.  But if his stubborn ass keeps backing dbag Dalton, I may join the call. 

[happyrid]

Who are all these vets people are wanting to cut?  I've heard some talking about Peko, maybe Hall but thats more of a desire to see him get his contract restructured, but who are all the vets people are screaming for to be cut? 

 

The suggestions I've heard are: Replace mediocre QB, can't be that hard to find someone to give you what Dalton gives you....he has no unique skill set whatsoever.   The other is replace Marvin.  With the people in place currently, that's not a huge change either.  Undoubtedly the offensive/defensive philosophies would stay the same and the next HC could very well be on the current staff already.  These aren't changes that say total rebuild.  That's tweaking things a bit, nothing more.

 

You people are so damn traumatized by the '90s

 

And for the record, I don't want Marvin fired.  But if his stubborn ass keeps backing dbag Dalton, I may join the call. 

 

I think cut is probably inaccurate as you point out, but letting guys walk as FAs after the season is close to the same thing.

 

There are 12 starters set to hit FA after the season. I think many would advocate letting a whole bunch of them walk as FAs. I've seen people here post that Whit is a shitty leader because they haven't won a playoff game. Some want him gone. Many want Jones and/or Sanu gone. Many want Andre Smith gone. People want Lamur, Peko, Hall, Nelson, Thompson, etc. let go. 

 

I don't know. There really is a lot of "these guys haven't won enough so I don't really care about keeping hardly any of them," type attitude about all the coaches and pretty much all the players. I understand why the attitude exists as it feels a little bit like we're stuck in neutral, but I don't agree with it. You don't win 40 games over 4 seasons in the NFL unless you have a whole lot of good players. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water and blow the whole thing up just because you're frustrated because it likely doesn't get you any closer to where you want to go, just further away. 

[HairOnFire]

The suggestions I've heard are: Replace mediocre QB, can't be that hard to find someone to give you what Dalton gives you....he has no unique skill set whatsoever. 

 

It can't be that hard, but you can never quite come up with a name.

 

But hey, it's not just you.

 

None of you can.

 

Not now, not yesterday, not a month ago, not a year ago.

 

Marvin's laughed at fans like you for years.

 

And now Polian is doing it.

[Khatmandude]

 

It can't be that hard, but you can never quite come up with a name.

 

But hey, it's not just you.

 

None of you can.

 

Not now, not yesterday, not a month ago, not a year ago.

 

Marvin's laughed at fans like you for years.

 

And now Polian is doing it.

 

Plenty of QBs that would give you what Dalton gives you.  There is nothing in his skillset that's unique and couldn't be replaced.  Hell, I think Andy's baby daddy "all up in Dalton's wife's" Cooter McCarron could give you what Dalton gives you.   Who can't do the following:  Look at primary receiver all throughout route, if open throw it.  If not open, throw it. 

 

And Marvin laughing at fans like me would mean something if he had actually won more than the division a few years out of 12.   So you'll have to excuse me if that one doesn't bother me one bit.  

[sparky151]

 

It can't be that hard, but you can never quite come up with a name.

 

But hey, it's not just you.

 

None of you can.

 

Not now, not yesterday, not a month ago, not a year ago.

 

Marvin's laughed at fans like you for years.

 

And now Polian is doing it.

 

Huh? Dalton doesn't have any hard to replace skills. What makes him better than say Colt McCoy? Mark Sanchez? etc. Dalton's had a much better surrounding cast than those guys.

[|kennethmw|]

Huh? Dalton doesn't have any hard to replace skills. What makes him better than say Colt McCoy? Mark Sanchez? etc. Dalton's had a much better surrounding cast than those guys.

Eeyores always act like Dalton is so replaceable, but for some reason the people that get paid to make player evaluations always disagree. Oh well.

[Le Tigre]

But Team Eeyore sees all, knows all. Who are these Tobin knaves?

[|SF2|]

Eeyores always act like Dalton is so replaceable, but for some reason the people that get paid to make player evaluations always disagree. Oh well.

No we don't. We believe Dalton needs to be replaced but whoever we get will suck worse.

[HairOnFire]

 

Huh? Dalton doesn't have any hard to replace skills. What makes him better than say Colt McCoy? 

 

Colt McCoy plays in the exact same offense as Dalton.

 

McCoy threw for 4 TD's last season.....offset by 7 turnovers.

 

In his career McCoy has thrown for 25 TD's....offset by 33 turnovers.

 

Do the math.

 

And he can't stay healthy.

 

 

 

 

 Mark Sanchez? 

 

Sanchez broke even last year, throwing for TD's as often as he turned the ball over.

 

For his career he's thrown 82 TD's...offset by 109 interceptions and fumbles.

 

That's -27 for those keeping score.

 

 

 

 

 etc.

 

Dalton is +22 over his career.

[HairOnFire]

No we don't. We believe Dalton needs to be replaced but whoever we get will suck worse.

 

I fear you are displaying many of the symptoms of Khat Scratch fever.

 

Sadly there's no cure, but I've heard your symptoms can be managed either by suicide or by changing the type of yogurt you eat.

 

Choose wisely.

[|SF2|]

I fear you are displaying many of the symptoms of Khat Scratch fever.
 
Sadly there's no cure, but I've heard your symptoms can be managed either by suicide or by changing the type of yogurt you eat.
 
Choose wisely.

I am alergic to yogurt and rope keeps breaking. Wozey wo wo.

[HairOnFire]

I am alergic to yogurt and rope keeps breaking. Wozey wo wo.

 

Don't give up.

 

Do you have any wire?

[sparky151]

 

Colt McCoy plays in the exact same offense as Dalton.

 

McCoy threw for 4 TD's last season.....offset by 7 turnovers.

 

In his career McCoy has thrown for 25 TD's....offset by 33 turnovers.

 

Do the math.

 

And he can't stay healthy.

 

 

 

 

Sanchez broke even last year, throwing for TD's as often as he turned the ball over.

 

For his career he's thrown 82 TD's...offset by 109 interceptions and fumbles.

 

That's -27 for those keeping score.

 

 

 

 

Dalton is +22 over his career.

 

 

 It's funny you make turnovers the basis of your defense of Dalton. His interception % has gone up each year of his career. Sure McCoy and Sanchez fumble too much. That's partly a function of their protection and partly of how long they hold onto the ball. Dalton is instructed not to hold the ball very long so his fumbles tend to come on scrambles more than strip sacks. The San Diego playoff game is probably the most obvious example of that.

 

We're paying Dalton an average of 16 mil per year on his new contract. If McCarron or Pryor turned into the new Peyton Manning and became the starter, do you think other teams would rush to give Dalton 16 mil per year to be their starter? I don't. I think his market value would be similar to that of guys like McCoy, Sanchez, or Ryan Fitzpatrick. In other words a veteran backup with some starting experience who didn't pan out for his original team.

 

Dalton's career playoff stats are ugly. We all know that. The team is 0-4. His TD/INT numbers are 1/6, passer rating of 57.8. Mark Sanchez has started 6 playoff games with his team's record 4-2 in those games. His TD/INT numbers are 9/3 with a passer rating of 94.3. McCoy hasn't started a playoff game.

 

Dalton's best season was probably 2013 when he set the franchise single season records for passing yards and passing TD. He had 33 TDs but also 20 INTs for a career high passer rating of 88.8. That's high enough that a team isn't actively looking to replace a player but also not especially impressive. Last year his rating fell to 83.5. Mike Glennon of Tampa was a rookie in 2013 and had 19TDs to 9 INTs. He had a rating of 83.9 and 83.3 last year on fewer attempts. McCoy had a rating of 96.4 last year (on 128 attempts). Sanchez had 88.4 (on 309 attempts). Ryan Fitzpatrick had 95.3 (on 312 attempts). Dalton has started every game of his career, which is certainly a good quality to have in a QB. But he's not very efficient. He doesn't punish opponents for their mistakes. We've all seen him lock on to a double covered AJ while someone else is open. We've all seen him under throw balls to open receivers. That's not a 16 million dollar skill set. But the team has decided he must be shielded from competition. So we'll continue doing the same things hoping for better results.

[|SF2|]

 

 

 It's funny you make turnovers the basis of your defense of Dalton. His interception % has gone up each year of his career. Sure McCoy and Sanchez fumble too much. That's partly a function of their protection and partly of how long they hold onto the ball. Dalton is instructed not to hold the ball very long so his fumbles tend to come on scrambles more than strip sacks. The San Diego playoff game is probably the most obvious example of that.

 

We're paying Dalton an average of 16 mil per year on his new contract. If McCarron or Pryor turned into the new Peyton Manning and became the starter, do you think other teams would rush to give Dalton 16 mil per year to be their starter? I don't. I think his market value would be similar to that of guys like McCoy, Sanchez, or Ryan Fitzpatrick. In other words a veteran backup with some starting experience who didn't pan out for his original team.

 

Dalton's career playoff stats are ugly. We all know that. The team is 0-4. His TD/INT numbers are 1/6, passer rating of 57.8. Mark Sanchez has started 6 playoff games with his team's record 4-2 in those games. His TD/INT numbers are 9/3 with a passer rating of 94.3. McCoy hasn't started a playoff game.

 

Dalton's best season was probably 2013 when he set the franchise single season records for passing yards and passing TD. He had 33 TDs but also 20 INTs for a career high passer rating of 88.8. That's high enough that a team isn't actively looking to replace a player but also not especially impressive. Last year his rating fell to 83.5. Mike Glennon of Tampa was a rookie in 2013 and had 19TDs to 9 INTs. He had a rating of 83.9 and 83.3 last year on fewer attempts. McCoy had a rating of 96.4 last year (on 128 attempts). Sanchez had 88.4 (on 309 attempts). Ryan Fitzpatrick had 95.3 (on 312 attempts). Dalton has started every game of his career, which is certainly a good quality to have in a QB. But he's not very efficient. He doesn't punish opponents for their mistakes. We've all seen him lock on to a double covered AJ while someone else is open. We've all seen him under throw balls to open receivers. That's not a 16 million dollar skill set. But the team has decided he must be shielded from competition. So we'll continue doing the same things hoping for better results.

Actually, I think quite a few teams would pay Andy $16 mil a year for a couple of years to be their QB.  There are some teams who have utter dog shit at the position and would love a mid 80s rated QB who has won more than he has lost and has made the playoffs.  I would even guess Tampa Bay or Tennessee would have gladly taken Dalton at $16 mil a year and picked someone else with the first 2 picks.  

 

We kind of did the same thing with Kitna which began our climb out of being total shit.  You can't do ANYTHING or rebuild an offense if your QB is garbage.  Andy isn't garbage, not even close.

[fredtoast]

 

 

 

We're paying Dalton an average of 16 mil per year on his new contract. If McCarron or Pryor turned into the new Peyton Manning and became the starter, do you think other teams would rush to give Dalton 16 mil per year to be their starter? I don't. I think his market value would be similar to that of guys like McCoy, Sanchez, or Ryan Fitzpatrick. In other words a veteran backup with some starting experience who didn't pan out for his original team.

 

Sanchez has a career rating of 74.1 with 82 tds and 80 ints.  He averages 204.4 yards per start with a record of 37-33.

 

McCoy has a career rating of 78.2 with 25 tds and 23 ints.  He averages 212.7 yards per start with a record of 7-18.

 

Fitzpatrick has a career rating of 79.5 with 123 tds and 101 ints.  He averages 207.5 yrds per start with a record of 33-55.

 

Dalton has a career rating of 85.3 with 99 tds and 66 ints.  He averages 230.6 yards per start with a record of 40-23-1.

 

Dalton is clearly superior to Sanchez. McCoy, and Fitzpatrick.

[B.A.B.]

Nah he's pretty fucking close. You must turn off your tv in January.