Dalton Raises Concerns for Bengals - NFL.com

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[b] http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000122483/article/andy-dalton-raises-concerns-for-cincinnati-bengals [/b]

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[b] Andy Dalton raises concerns for Cincinnati Bengals[/b]
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[*][img]http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/_Rosenthal1-65x90.jpg[/img]
[*]By Gregg Rosenthal
[*]Around The League editor
[*]Published: Jan. 5, 2013 at 08:09 p.m.
[*]Updated: Jan. 6, 2013 at 02:04 p.m.
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[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/profile"]Andy Dalton[/url] has led the [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"]Cincinnati Bengals[/url] to the playoffs twice in two seasons. His stats look fine on paper.

So why does he so often look so underwhelming?
Dalton's 127-yard, one-interception performance in the [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"]Bengals[/url]' [url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000122479/article/houston-texans-advance-with-win-over-bengals"]19-13 loss[/url] to the [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexans/profile?team=HOU"]Houston Texans[/url] on [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013010500/2012/POST18/bengals@texans"]Saturday[/url] was not a huge surprise to anyone who has watched him over the second half of the season. The [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"]Bengals[/url] were winning despite Dalton, and his struggles have to concern the organization long-term.
It's not a question of if Dalton is any good. It's obvious he's capable. It's if he has the potential to be great.
Dalton has limitations as a thrower and struggled with accuracy. It was discouraging to see him truly take a step back in his second season mentally. He often seemed hesitant to make a throw, even when it was there. Too many passes went out of bounds. The game hasn't slowed down for him.
Saturday's game was a perfect example. [url="http://www.nfl.com/player/a.j.green/2495450/profile"]A.J. Green[/url] beat the defense deep three times in the second half. Dalton hit Green only once. Dalton also put way too much air under a ball on a throw into the end zone, allowing [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/houstontexans/profile?team=HOU"]Texans[/url]cornerback [url="http://www.nfl.com/player/johnathanjoseph/2495872/profile"]Johnathan Joseph[/url] to recover on the play. Dalton also overthrew Green on Cincinnati's last drive for a would-be go-ahead touchdown. With the season on the line, Dalton didn't give his offense's best player a chance.


It has become a bit of a trend. Green was one-on-one in the red zone in the third quarter, and Dalton threw the ball out of bounds. He finished the season with four touchdown passes and six picks in his last six games. He didn't average over 7 yards per attempt once in that stretch.
It might seem like we're being overly harsh, but it's not like the [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"]Bengals[/url] don't know these problems. There are very real quarterback traits that Dalton struggles with. As [url="http://www.nfl.com/player/marksanchez/79858/profile"]Mark Sanchez[/url] shows, you can't judge a quarterback's promise simply on early playoff appearances.
[i]Follow Gregg Rosenthal on Twitter [url="http://twitter.com/#%21/greggrosenthal"]@greggrosenthal[/url].[/i][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color]

[JBandJoeyV]

Once again he isn't going anywhere in 2013.

2013 will be a big year for him in determining if he is a franchise qb or not.

IMO 2013 should be a make it or break it year for Marvin and if he doesn't win playoff games with dalton in 2013 I think you have to bring in a new coach and most new coaches want their own quarterback.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

Making the playoffs isn't easy. So there is a strong chance that we may not make it.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1357575630' post='1205904']
Once again he isn't going anywhere in 2013.

2013 will be a big year for him in determining if he is a franchise qb or not.

IMO 2013 should be a make it or break it year for Marvin and if he doesn't win playoff games with dalton in 2013 I think you have to bring in a new coach and most new coaches want their own quarterback.
[/quote]

If you have doubts, you need to have someone on your roster or are willing to give up a mint in FA for a REAL QB.

The only way that works if if you are lucky enough like the Saints or Denver and a damn good QB is available in FA, OR you draft a QB with other attributes ie. Wilson or Kapernick (sic?) and develop them. Our backup QB offers absolutely nothing to the mix. The reality is you MUST either have an athletic backup QB who can use his legs to buy that extra second a guy who rarely gets snaps will need or you draft or trade for your future QB to take over for an aging or marginal starter i.e. Rodgers in Green Bay or Young in SF.

For the time being, Dalton is 100% safe since we have NO alternative at the position.

[turningpoint]

I'd make a run at alex smith, I doubt he will demand too much money.

[|Elflocko|]

It would appear Alex Smith is the new Lavar Arrington around these parts...

[Khatmandude]

Doesn't this dumb writer know that it's only Dalton's 2nd year and he's allowed to play as horribly as he wants as a result? Can't believe how unreasonable some people can be....expecting Dalton to hit a wide open AJ Green racing downfield. Only QBs with at least 3 yrs of experience should be expected to complete these passes. And finding wide open receivers .....give him until year 4 for this development. Man, I can't wait! This guy's going to be the greatest. Maybe even G.O.A.T. status.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1357576078' post='1205912']


If you have doubts, you need to have someone on your roster or are willing to give up a mint in FA for a REAL QB.

The only way that works if if you are lucky enough like the Saints or Denver and a damn good QB is available in FA, OR you draft a QB with other attributes ie. Wilson or Kapernick (sic?) and develop them. Our backup QB offers absolutely nothing to the mix. The reality is you MUST either have an athletic backup QB who can use his legs to buy that extra second a guy who rarely gets snaps will need or you draft or trade for your future QB to take over for an aging or marginal starter i.e. Rodgers in Green Bay or Young in SF.

For the time being, Dalton is 100% safe since we have NO alternative at the position.
[/quote]

Yes he is 100 percent safe in 2013 just like I said. If he has a bad 2013 though I wouldn't be surprised if him and Marvin are gone, and you'd likely be looking at a rebuilding 2014 with a new coach and qb.

[BigDawgBengal]

I guess people just don't realize a lot of young QBs struggle in their first couple playoff games. Peyton Manning did not put great numbers in his first two playoff games. Dalton's stats were very similar to Manning's besides the INTs. Dalton actually had a better completion percentage. Eli Manning had horrible stats in his first two playoff games. If you just look at most QBs that played in a playoff game in their first year or two in the league they all struggled.

[SouthPaw]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357579444' post='1205971']
I guess people just don't realize a lot of young QBs struggle in their first couple playoff games. Peyton Manning did not put great numbers in his first two playoff games. Dalton's stats were very similar to Manning's besides the INTs. Dalton actually had a better completion percentage. Eli Manning had horrible stats in his first two playoff games. If you just look at most QBs that played in a playoff game in their first year or two in the league they all struggled.
[/quote]

This true, but for me, it goes beyond just this year's playoff game or even last year's. He hasnt shown up once during a truly big time game. That's my issue and im not sure that can be learned. Players just seem to have it. Luck, despite his struggles yesterday has IT. RG III has IT. Russell Wilson has IT. You can just see IT when IT is there. With Dalton, im not seeing IT. 2013 will be a huge year for him. Make or break in my opinion. Also, i think when some people were referring to AJ being wasted, i think it has more to do w/ his talent being wasted as far as this teaming making a super bowl run while he is here. I hope he is here for his entire career, but in today's world of sports, it's very unlikely.

[fluhartz]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357579444' post='1205971']
I guess people just don't realize a lot of young QBs struggle in their first couple playoff games. Peyton Manning did not put great numbers in his first two playoff games. Dalton's stats were very similar to Manning's besides the INTs. Dalton actually had a better completion percentage. Eli Manning had horrible stats in his first two playoff games. If you just look at most QBs that played in a playoff game in their first year or two in the league they all struggled.
[/quote]


nope.. if he isn't Tom fucking Brady in his first year... he will never ever ever be good...

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='fluhartz' timestamp='1357581036' post='1205991']
nope.. if he isn't Tom fucking Brady in his first year... he will never ever ever be good...
[/quote]

pretty much this.


It all comes down to expectations, and some, inculding the coaches IMO, have unrealistic expectations on how far along a 2nd year 2nd round pick (ie not an elite talent) should be along in his development.


Worth repeating, 34 pass plays to 12 running plays Saturday in a game where you never were in a position to have to abandon the run.

That's poor coaching and not putting your players in a position to succeed.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1357580556' post='1205987']
This true, but for me, it goes beyond just this year's playoff game or even last year's. He hasnt shown up once during a truly big time game. That's my issue and im not sure that can be learned. Players just seem to have it. Luck, despite his struggles yesterday has IT. RG III has IT. Russell Wilson has IT. You can just see IT when IT is there. With Dalton, im not seeing IT. 2013 will be a huge year for him. Make or break in my opinion. Also, i think when some people were referring to AJ being wasted, i think it has more to do w/ his talent being wasted as far as this teaming making a super bowl run while he is here. I hope he is here for his entire career, but in today's world of sports, it's very unlikely.
[/quote]

I think you could argue that Dalton has IT. Maybe not like a Brady or Manning but there is something there. Dalton made the big throw against Pitt this year when he had to. Had 4 TDs against the Giants in a must win game to save the season. I think he has 5 fourth quarter comebacks in his career. Sure he has not come up big in some big games but he has gone against some of the toughest defenses in the league in those games. Pitt and Balt have made good QBs look bad over the years and as I stated above young QBs struggle in the playoffs.

There is no doubt he needs to improve but peoples exceptions are way to high.

[ButchWalkerRokks]

Alex Smith will soon be regretting being a gangrene toe sucker!

[T-Dub]

Where's the version of this article about the Cowboys and Tony Romo?

[Squirrlnutz]

This place has really been intolerable lately. When I came across this site for the first time, I was so relieved to have a place to talk about Bengals football that wasn't dominated with blowhards who'd rather be right about how bad a player is while we lose, than engage in constructive criticism while we win.

Well my journey here has now come full circle.

I hope the soapbox GMs enjoy their hate filled January and February complaining about Dalton and Cook and Maualuga, your miserable March bitching about our lack of FA additions, your loathsome April whining about our scouting process and draft choices and make sure you have a lot of fun in May and June while authoring your grand disillusionment with the Bengals 2013 offseason.

I hope you enjoy it because its pretty clear to the rest of the us that the talent is here and the framework has been laid for this team to be a force. And when September comes around and we start winning again, I know you won't be able to enjoy it. You're foolish pride and internet bravado will prevent you actually savoring the victories. It will turn you inside out with dissonance as you'd rather be right about Dalton so you can stick it to 1181 or Oldschooler than recognize that he's a work in progress on an offensive work in progress.

But hey, for the haters this is your Superbowl, by all means continue to scream your opinions. The rest of us will bide our time, weaving in and out of threads for the random 6-7 post oasis of constructive dialog, counting down the days until you fall silent again.

[BigDawgBengal]

[color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)][color=#222222][font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]I think another thing that is holding Dalton back is just the consistency in the offense. In just two years he has had seven different guys line up as his number 2 WR and three different guys line up in the slot. He has had two different starting RBs, two different centers, and several changes at the guard position. Also the play calling as been all over the place at times. [/background][/size][/font][/color]


Over the offseason this team really needs to figure out who is who and have some consistency next year. It's hard for Dalton to have any timing with his WRs when there is a new guy lined up out there all the time. Gurden needs to figure out if he wants this to be a running team or a passing team. You cant have one week were you run the ball 25 to 30 times and then the next week just give up on it. [/background][/size][/font][/color]

[Jason]

I wonder how many people were wondering this after Drew Brees' first 2 seasons.

[fluhartz]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1357584258' post='1206005']
This place has really been intolerable lately. When I came across this site for the first time, I was so relieved to have a place to talk about Bengals football that wasn't dominated with blowhards who'd rather be right about how bad a player is while we lose, than engage in constructive criticism while we win.

Well my journey here has now come full circle.

I hope the soapbox GMs enjoy their hate filled January and February complaining about Dalton and Cook and Maualuga, your miserable March bitching about our lack of FA additions, your loathsome April whining about our scouting process and draft choices and make sure you have a lot of fun in May and June while authoring your grand disillusionment with the Bengals 2013 offseason.

I hope you enjoy it because its pretty clear to the rest of the us that the talent is here and the framework has been laid for this team to be a force. And when September comes around and we start winning again, I know you won't be able to enjoy it. You're foolish pride and internet bravado will prevent you actually savoring the victories. It will turn you inside out with dissonance as you'd rather be right about Dalton so you can stick it to 1181 or Oldschooler than recognize that he's a work in progress on an offensive work in progress.

But hey, for the haters this is your Superbowl, by all means continue to scream your opinions. The rest of us will bide our time, weaving in and out of threads for the random 6-7 post oasis of constructive dialog, counting down the days until you fall silent again.
[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1357584501' post='1206008']
I wonder how many people were wondering this after Drew Brees' first 2 seasons.
[/quote]


I wonder how many are saying this about Cam Newton. You know, since 2 QBs from his
own draft class (Dalton twice) have taken their teams to the Playoffs and now you have
3 Rookies from this past draft that also took their teams to the Playoffs.

What? Not a peep?


And Ryan, I think the World of you, but your ID and hatred for Dalton is embarrassing.
I remember not so long ago when you would put people on blast for less.

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1357584367' post='1206006']
[font=Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]I think another thing that is holding Dalton back is just the consistency in the offense. In just two years he has had six different guys line up as his number 2 WR and three different guys line up in the slot. He has had two different starting RBs, two different centers, and several changes at the guard position. Also the play calling as been all over the place at times.


Over the offseason this team really needs to figure out who is who and have some consistency next year. It's hard for Dalton to have any timing with his WRs when there is a new guys lined up out there all the time. Gurden needs to figure out if he wants this to be a running team or a passing team. You cant have one week were you run the ball 25 to 30 times and then the next week just give up on it. [/font]
[/quote]

There is no consistency to the offense as a whole and that's bringing everyone down. Gruden and Lewis bear the brunt of the blame IMO. How, after 2 seasons, do we not have any bread and butter type plays? We can't consitantly run right, or run left, or execute a screen, or complete passes to the seem. The Eagles were terrible this year, but they can run a screen pass in their sleep and pick up 10 yards if the D decides to send 7 guys on a blitz.

I would love for someone to find me a 3 pass play sequence in any game since Dallas where Dalton, had a clean pocket, hit his back foot and stepped into his throw, and hit a WR who is relatively open. I saw Luck get to hit his back foot, in a clean pocket and throw a ball to an open WR on 3 consecutive plays more than two times yesterday. Sure he got hit and had to run for his life and scramble a bunch of times too...but in between all that they had 4 plays here and 3 plays there and 5 plays here where everything worked, everyone executed and he threw the ball as designed. I can't remember the last time we've had that on 3 consecutive plays or more. And that is a failure of all 11 guys and the coaching staff, not "Just Andy."

[EnglishBengal]

Dalton may not be technically polished, but he's a winner and has balls of steel. 2 straight winning seasons with him at qb and 2 trips to the playoffs. I'd take him over Cam Newton any day of the week.

Dalton looked great with Sanu in the lineup. So he is capable.

I conclude, give Dalton some decent pass protection and some weapons on offense not named AJ Green, then judge him.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1357584258' post='1206005']
This place has really been intolerable lately.
[/quote]


Good post. But I just want to respond to this part.

I remember the other day someone posted a link from a Texans board and it was
a thread about our thread here titled "Houston you have a problem." One of the
posters there said "Wait til you see all the doom and gloom there after we win."
Boy was that dude right or what?

Sure I would have loved it had we won. But I am not going to go from "Super Bowl!"
To "OMFGWTFBBQ?" after this loss. This team had a good season. There are far
more things to be optimistic about than not. I expect more than just making the
Playoffs now. The bar has been raised. But I don't think Dalton is garbage because
of this loss.

[SouthPaw]

Its a fan forum. There is always going to be discontent, especially when we as FANS invest so much of our time wanting and desiring for it to win. I still love this team and always have even if I had to hear it my whole life growing in Steeler nation. However, two things stuck out to me very cleary this past Saturday, the poise, moxy, and playmaking ability Andy Dalton displayed last year seemed to have failed him this year, especially against very good teams(defenses) and the offensive coordinator did nothing to improve upon his unimpressive 2011 campaign. I am all for giving people a chance, but I still think there has to be a progression. That is what is most disconcerting to me about both Dalton and Gruden. There is no doubt this team in general has continued to climb the steps out of the proverbial nfl basement, but there is also no doubt after Saturday, they arent nearly at the the top yet. Maybe 2013 is the year it happens, i dont know, but what i do know is that if its going to happen it will be directly contingent upon what those two gentleman bring to the table next year. I guess we will find out.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1357585482' post='1206018']
Its a fan forum. There is always going to be discontent, especially when we as FANS invest so much of our time wanting and desiring for it to win. I still love this team and always have even if I had to hear it my whole life growing in Steeler nation. However, two things stuck out to me very cleary this past Saturday, the poise, moxy, and playmaking ability Andy Dalton displayed last year seemed to have failed him this year, especially against very good teams(defenses) and the offensive coordinator did nothing to improve upon his unimpressive 2011 campaign. I am all for giving people a chance, but I still think there has to be a progression. That is what is most disconcerting to me about both Dalton and Gruden. There is no doubt this team in general has continued to climb the steps out of the proverbial nfl basement, but there is also no doubt after Saturday, they arent nearly at the the top yet. Maybe 2013 is the year it happens, i dont know, but what i do know is that if its going to happen it will be directly contingent upon what those two gentleman bring to the table next year. I guess we will find out.
[/quote]

South, you are right in this is a fan forum. And as such, you should have a variety of opinions, some of which everyone will not agree with. I don't always agree with you, but I must admit, I have been very impressed with you view on some areas, even some in which we don't agree. I think what some are saying is that certain people have decided that their opinion is what's most important, even to the point of rooting for players to fail. We have posters that never post if we're winning, but are the first to post if we lose, especially to point out the inadequacies of the players they don't like. Did Jay and Andy progress as much as I thought they would this year? In a word, no, but I also didn't think we would lose Wharton, Cook, and Bscott for most if not all of the year. Two years ago, it appears that Marvin was given a little more control, and two years later, we have been to the playoffs twice for the first time in decades. With almost the youngest O in the league.