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claptonrocks

Building the Oline.....

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Im looking at our Oline and its imperative the team needs to upgrade..

Jonah Williams was the best left tackle in the draft in 2018..

His job is to protect Burrows blindside. As you know so thats a very good start..

Jordan at LG should be stronger and should be decent..center is decent ...

Now LG and RT should be adressed..

RG Miller is mediocre and RT is a catastrophe..

Solve weaknesses on the right side and this offense could ignite...

How would the board here solve it realistically?

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I'd cut Hart and cut or trade Glenn. That frees up about 15 mil in cap space. Use that to sign Scherff or Conklin. Then use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guard or tackle. Also sign a cheap vet as backup LT.

 

In a mock offseason at another site, I tried and failed to trade for Trent Williams. So we signed Conklin for 5 years 80 mil though it's really more like a 3 year, 42 mil deal. We cut Hart. So we now have a much better RT. We signed Donald Penn for a couple mil as the backup LT and mentor for Williams. We signed Van Roten from Carolina for about 4 mil to play LG. We still have Miller as the starter at RG before the draft. We're looking for Muti, Lewis or Stenburg in the draft. 

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3 hours ago, bfine said:

Put Cordy Glenn at RT and draft a RG in the 4th RD. Maybe somebody like Logan Sternburg

Thats an upgrade If Cordy Glenn will accept that role and be all in with it..

I have my doubts that will happen..

im not happy with Miller..Do we have any pulling guards on this team??? 

...

 

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2 hours ago, sparky151 said:

I'd cut Hart and cut or trade Glenn. That frees up about 15 mil in cap space. Use that to sign Scherff or Conklin. Then use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a guard or tackle. Also sign a cheap vet as backup LT.

 

In a mock offseason at another site, I tried and failed to trade for Trent Williams. So we signed Conklin for 5 years 80 mil though it's really more like a 3 year, 42 mil deal. We cut Hart. So we now have a much better RT. We signed Donald Penn for a couple mil as the backup LT and mentor for Williams. We signed Van Roten from Carolina for about 4 mil to play LG. We still have Miller as the starter at RG before the draft. We're looking for Muti, Lewis or Stenburg in the draft. 

Damn thats deep....and plausibly good..

 

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6 hours ago, bfine said:

Put Cordy Glenn at RT and draft a RG in the 4th RD. Maybe somebody like Logan Sternburg

I believe the odds of Glenn being there in camp when it opens is higher than many believe.  I've always wondered though if he is, why isn't he mentioned more as RT instead of guard.  If healthy, he certainly has the size for RT and he's probably more mobile than many.

 

In my mind , Hopkins & Williams are pretty much lock at two starting berths.  I see Jordan as a lock for an inside berth and Fred Johnson's late performance probably was good enough to secure him a 3rd or 4th tackle spot at the very least.  While we're talking reserves, not sure Price is a starter candidate without a huge camp, but his former 1st starter probably keeps in around another season as an interior reserve.

 

As for the other three starting berths?  I think they must go outside the draft and the current roster to fill one position.   Would love for them to sack up and grab one of the very best FA tackles or Thunes at guard, but don't see it.  I think it's almost a must for them to try their best (and then some) to step up for an interior guy like Scherrf or Glasgow.

 

The other two spots depending on Glenn (if he returns), I believe he's a better RT option than Bobbie Hart.   Hart though seems to have become almost a fetish object for this organization and I expect him to start game one at RT.  If that is the case then, I would make Glenn the leader at LG next to Williams and I would still spend a 2nd or 3rd rounder for one of the deep class of tackles in this draft to push and ultimately replace Hart on the right edge.

 

That would leave us with:

Starters:

OC Hopkins

RG FA (Scherff/Glasgow/???)

LG Glenn

RT Hart

LT Williams

Reserves:

Jordan

Johnson

(2nd/3rd Rd. OT pick)

(Price/Miller/Jerry/Redmond/Prince/Dugas/Vet Pickup/2nd Draft Pick/UDFA)

 

I'd still scour the wire for upgrades with particular scrutiny of veteran pre-camp cuts from other teams.  A 36-38 year veteran isn't going to be a long-term fix at any spot, but chances of finding long-term answers at all five spots  Such pickups (as well as Glenn at guard) can really help stabilize a spot or provide quality depth in case of injury allowing them to allow a youngster to develop another year or let them push using another premium draft pick a year or two down the road.

 

I see some people say you can't fix everything this year, so you don't have to draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd or Jordan & or Hart will be fine starting for now.  I disagree.  I don't want Hart at RT, because he might not have been quite the steaming sack of suck he was in years past.  B-F'n-S!  Jordan may be ready to shine at guard, but OL's tend to take 3 or more seasons to grade out at top performance levels.  I don't chance it.  If he takes the job, you've got a quality veteran backup or trade chip.  I believe OLine needs to still be THE Top Priority by wide margin.

 

Burrow stands to be potentially one of the very most important talent acquisitions in this organization's history.  Subjecting him to the levels of abuse Dalton has seen, is not acceptable.  Additionally, put a solid wall in front of Jeaux and I'm really intrigued with thoughts of him throwing to Green, Boyd and Ross with a bit more time to find the.

 

I agree that you draft the BPA instead of need.  I believe there's a good chance that with this class, an OT may be one of the BPA's in both the 2nd & 3rd rounds.  Nothing wrong with taking a guy who is arguably a top talent AND addresses a position of need. 

 

BTW, i Stenberg lasts until the top of the 4th round, it could be a great pick.

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14 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

Sour Apples Harry, here, but I'm still wait-and-see skeptical about Jonah.

So hope I'm wrong, as usual.

Don't know to he's a surefire star at LT, but going into camp I think you have to stick him in there and hope.  One slight ray of sunshine, Johnson didn't look bad at LT toward the end of the season.  Also, i think they really need find a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round who might be able to swing to the left side in a pinch and if Cordy is still around at guard, you can slide him out there in injury emergencies.  Not ideal, but beats having to stick Miller, Jerry or Sugar Tits out on an edge.  For buckeye fans, does Isaiah Prince from tOSU have any potential as a backup or position versatility or is he just PS fodder?

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Scherff ?  Seriously ?  Did not complete the 2018 OR the 2019 season.  Going to the Bengals might mean he may not make it out of preseason before ending his season...

 

Find someone dependable, consistent, AND not with a history of season ending injuries.  Preferably without short arms too... 

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FFS.. No offense intended to anyone but why the fuck are we still talking about Glenn?  Dude's barely played in years and spent most of the season in some kind of weird conflict with the team.  He's cancer and it's absolutely idiotic to have him in the Bengals locker room doing precious little but poisoning the well for another year.  Can't believe anyone is considering him a fix for anything other than "How do we dump some dead weight salary?"

 

Hart, while at least not goldbricking all year, is Not. An. NFL. Tackle.  It couldn't be more clear without tattooing it on his forehead, Extending him was stupid but they were desperate - fine, ok. Keeping him around now is simply lazy.  They want to build a culture? Quit rewarding shitty players and guys that don't even play to begin with.  I don't know how much more obvious that could be? It's a wonder people that inept can tie their own shoes without getting the laces wrapped around their necks & strangling themselves.  A 9 year old in Madden would make better decisions, but I guess in Madden there are consequences when you lose.

 

Also, Jonah Williams is just a name on the depth chart.  He's done nothing on an NFL field except get injured.  He was out the entire season from what some have said was a lingering college injury.  I've not at all given up on him, God knows I'd love to see LT find some stability even if he's just average, but right now he's just a big question mark. Anyone with sense would have a back-up plan in place and that sure as shit isn't Cordy Glenn.  

 

That's 3 of our starting 5? That's the plan?

 

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2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

FFS.. No offense intended to anyone but why the fuck are we still talking about Glenn?  Dude's barely played in years and spent most of the season in some kind of weird conflict with the team.  He's cancer and it's absolutely idiotic to have him in the Bengals locker room doing precious little but poisoning the well for another year.  Can't believe anyone is considering him a fix for anything other than "How do we dump some dead weight salary?"

 

Hart, while at least not goldbricking all year, is Not. An. NFL. Tackle.  It couldn't be more clear without tattooing it on his forehead, Extending him was stupid but they were desperate - fine, ok. Keeping him around now is simply lazy.  They want to build a culture? Quit rewarding shitty players and guys that don't even play to begin with.  I don't know how much more obvious that could be? It's a wonder people that inept can tie their own shoes without getting the laces wrapped around their necks & strangling themselves.  A 9 year old in Madden would make better decisions, but I guess in Madden there are consequences when you lose.

 

Also, Jonah Williams is just a name on the depth chart.  He's done nothing on an NFL field except get injured.  He was out the entire season from what some have said was a lingering college injury.  I've not at all given up on him, God knows I'd love to see LT find some stability even if he's just average, but right now he's just a big question mark. Anyone with sense would have a back-up plan in place and that sure as shit isn't Cordy Glenn.  

 

That's 3 of our starting 5? That's the plan?

 

 

It's not possible to reconcile? I thought it was a breakup but he came back and I don't recall any news about hurt butt cheeks.

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9 minutes ago, Tigris said:

 

It's not possible to reconcile? I thought it was a breakup but he came back and I don't recall any news about hurt butt cheeks.

 

I've no idea what really went down but playing a few games a year if he feels like it won't get it done, & as stated sends a terrible message..  

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1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

 

I've no idea what really went down but playing a few games a year if he feels like it won't get it done, & as stated sends a terrible message..  

 

Wasn't it reported that he didn't feel ready? I just look at it this way... if I were ill and my work told me I wasn't, I wouldn't go to work unless I knew I could manage. Fast forward a month or whatever and I'm feeling good, I'd show up and collect my check. I may feel a little sour about it but those pay checks sure would help bury those feelings.

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1 minute ago, Tigris said:

 

Wasn't it reported that he didn't feel ready? I just look at it this way... if I were ill and my work told me I wasn't, I wouldn't go to work unless I knew I could manage. Fast forward a month or whatever and I'm feeling good, I'd show up and collect my check. I may feel a little sour about it but those pay checks sure would help bury those feelings.

 

And if you showed up for work roughly 1/2 the time at best, for 3-4 years in a row?  

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14 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

And if you showed up for work roughly 1/2 the time at best, for 3-4 years in a row?  

 

So many other variables to consider. And Glenn played more than half of his games the last four years.
 

Also, you said earlier that Glenn was shitty, or implied it at least. Then said you didn’t know what really happened regarding the situation. I don’t know where the shrug emoji is. 

 

I think instead of damning Glenn to hell, maybe give him a chance to stay healthy considering that our OL isn’t scaring anyone. If we were stacked, yeah, make room for the project MAYBE, but we aren’t, and a healthy Glenn may be our best offensive lineman.

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On 2/22/2020 at 9:44 AM, snarkster said:

Don't know to he's a surefire star at LT, but going into camp I think you have to stick him in there and hope.  One slight ray of sunshine, Johnson didn't look bad at LT toward the end of the season.  Also, i think they really need find a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round who might be able to swing to the left side in a pinch and if Cordy is still around at guard, you can slide him out there in injury emergencies.  Not ideal, but beats having to stick Miller, Jerry or Sugar Tits out on an edge.  For buckeye fans, does Isaiah Prince from tOSU have any potential as a backup or position versatility or is he just PS fodder?

The PFF folks were recently on Sirius NFL radio the other day and was giving their 2 highest grades at every position since they've start rating college players. Their 2 OTs were Laramy Tunstil and Jonah Williams. They said ideal length was the only thing that stopped Williams from being among the highest they rated at any position.  

 

Does that mean he's going to excel in the NFL? No. Is it good to hear? Yes

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55 minutes ago, Tigris said:

So many other variables to consider. And Glenn played more than half of his games the last four years.
 

Also, you said earlier that Glenn was shitty, or implied it at least. Then said you didn’t know what really happened regarding the situation. I don’t know where the shrug emoji is. 

 

I think instead of damning Glenn to hell, maybe give him a chance to stay healthy considering that our OL isn’t scaring anyone. If we were stacked, yeah, make room for the project MAYBE, but we aren’t, and a healthy Glenn may be our best offensive lineman.

 

 I wouldn't say he's shitty, he's at least average.. when he plays. We can't keep carrying these guys that work maybe half a season, or ok 10 games if we're lucky. 

 

It's not about Glenn specifically anyway. Changing the culture means recognizing who they can count on every day.  It means recognizing who is good at playing NFL-level football right now, not in some ideal future.  I think they lack the ability & will to do that consistently or reliably & this offensive line shows it.

 

eta: If they want a team that plays with pride, a starter position needs to be something they fought for and earned, not handed to them because of draft position or money or what they did back in 2000-dickety-when

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On 2/22/2020 at 5:05 AM, snarkster said:

I.  I believe OLine needs to still be THE Top Priority by wide margin.

 

Burrow stands to be potentially one of the very most important talent acquisitions in this organization's history.  Subjecting him to the levels of abuse Dalton has seen, is not acceptable.

 

 

 

BTW, i Stenberg lasts until the top of the 4th round, it could be a great pick.

This X2. I've posted I'd be happy if the draft went Burrow/OL/OL or Burrow/LB/OL/OL, but I expect to be disappointed with something like Burrow/WR/BPA or some such nonsense.

 

A couple of observations/quetions

 

I don't expect the Bengals to sign any blue chip (or red chip) players in free agency. I hope I'm wrong and will happily eat crow if I am.

 

Fixing the Oline not only helps Burrow but Mixon. If Mixon can be a workhorse back Burrow isn't dropping back as much reducing the risk of injury  and giving him time to get up to NFL speed.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Williams also projected as a kick ass guard? If a top LT drops to 33, do you take him and move Williams inside?

 

I read somewhere that Stenberg sucked at pulling. If he can't pull does that kick him off the board?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Tigris said:

So many other variables to consider. And Glenn played more than half of his games the last four years.
 

Also, you said earlier that Glenn was shitty, or implied it at least. Then said you didn’t know what really happened regarding the situation. I don’t know where the shrug emoji is. 

 

I think instead of damning Glenn to hell, maybe give him a chance to stay healthy considering that our OL isn’t scaring anyone. If we were stacked, yeah, make room for the project MAYBE, but we aren’t, and a healthy Glenn may be our best offensive lineman.

I hate this take but its pretty damn accurate. 

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Glenn is almost certianly gone. I don't think he ever mended the fences with what he did during the regular season. 

Jonah and Hopkins are locks. 

The top end free agents are unlikely especially at Tackle. 

The one that makes the most sense is Graham Glasgow, his brother is on the team. He has been coached by Golden and Callahan as well. 

Ben Garland seems like a potential stud who will be looking for a starting spot. He played well filling in for the niners at C when their starter went down. He played for Callahan in Denver. 

When talking about depth 2 guys from Las Vegas make sense. Denzelle Good played G last year for the raiders and was coached by Singleton and Callahan for the Raiders and Pitcher for the Colts. David Sharpe is just 24 and played for Callahan and Singleton in Oakland. 

 

LT Williams 24 Johnson 22 Dugas 22
LG Glasgow Jordan 23 UDFA
C Hopkins 23 Price 23 Rd 5
RG Miller 22 Rd 3 Redmond 20
RT Hart 22 Sharpe Prince 23

 

Here is the Free Agent list. 

         
C Age Starts 2019/Career Notes
McGovern-Broncos 26 16/36    
Garland-49ers 31 3/10 Callahan w/Broncos  
Karras-Patriots 26 15/20    
Ferentz-Patriots 30 2/2 Callahan w/Broncos  
Looney-Cowboys 29 1/30    
Shipley-Cardinals 33 16/70    
Finney-Stealers 28 4/13    
Kalil-Jets 34 7/152    
Hunt-Seahawks 25 8/11    
Jones-Vikings 28 0/17   IR
         
G Age Starts 2019/Career Notes
Thuney-Patriots 27 16/64 From Ohio  
Glasgow-Lions 27 15/58 Golden and Callahan w/Lions and brother on team  
Haeg-Colts 26 0/35    
Groy-Chargers 29 0/17    
Good-Raiders 28 5/28 Callahan/Singleton w/Raiders, Pitcher w/Colts  
Watford-Bucs 29 4/25    
Penn-Redskins 36 15/189    
Schofield-Chargers 29 16/66 Callahan w/Broncos  
Wiggins-Lions 31 3/38 Golden w/Lions  
Iupati-Seahawks 32 15/129    
Su'a-Filo-Cowboys 28 4/53    
Omameh-Saints 30 1/57    
Leary-Broncos 30 12/76    
Aboushi-Lions 28 2/34    
Long-Bills 29 0/44    
Williams-Panthers 27 12/41    
Spain-Bills 28 16/64    
Jerry-Bengals 33 5/106    
Lewis-Jets 27 12/30    
Qvale-Jets 28 1/15    
Compton-Jets 30 5/34    
Blythe-Rams 27 15/33    
Eluemunor-Patriots 25 0/3 Turner w/AnM Restricted
Peat-Saints 26 10/60    
Boehm-Dolphins 26 8/21    
         
T Age Starts 2019/Career Notes
Peters-Eagles 37 13/195    
Castonzo-Colts 31 16/132 Pitcher w/Colts  
Conklin-Titans 25 16/57    
Bulaga-Packers 30 16/111    
Vaitai-Eagles 26 3/20    
Whitworth-Rams 38 16/211    
Lucas-Bears 28 8/16    
Kelly-Titans 30 4/31 Eagles w/Casey  
Dotson-Bucs 34 15/106    
Beachum-Jets 30 13/99    
Robinson-Browns 27 14/70    
Sharpe-Raiders 24 2/4 Callahan/Singleton w/Raiders  
Remmers-Giants 30 14/78    
Veldheer-Packers 32 0/113    
Shell-Jets 27 11/40    
Newhouse-Patriots 31 9/81    
Fant-Seahawks 27 7/24    
Fleming-Cowboys 27 3/26    
Ifedi-Seahawks 25 16/60    
Clark-Texans 34 7/73 Callahan w/Broncos  
Mills-Cardinals 29 2/84   IR
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Scherff should be on your list along with Greg Van Roten, who is more in the Bengals price range. Donald Penn isn't really a guard, he's a tackle.

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On 2/23/2020 at 10:14 PM, MichaelWeston said:

Glenn is almost certianly gone. I don't think he ever mended the fences with what he did during the regular season. 

Jonah and Hopkins are locks. 

 

Sounds like it's just about official re: Glenn being cut

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/27/bengals-planning-to-part-ways-with-cordy-glenn/

 

Hard for me to call a guy who spent his rookie season injured with zero NFL snaps a "lock" but I'm sure the team will still consider him one.  Hopefully they have a better plan B this year than "lose every game and act surprised."

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"Jonah becomes a difference," said Callahan of the left tackle that missed his rookie year last season with a shoulder injury. "Bobby and John Miller played well for us. They weren't terrible. Would we like to get competitive at all spots? Of course. I think Fred will be a part of that … We have developmental guys we feel good about and guys that have played we feel good about."

 

 

Interesting choice of words from Callahan.  What do you think?

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