OL Offseason 2023

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, High School Harry said:

Agree

and at 00:02 June 1 dump Mixon.

 

Yes, please. And not because we wasted a high draft pick trying to replace him. There aren't many RBs out there that will do anything more than the OL in front of them allows. Rolling the dice hoping to land the next Barry Sanders is dumb. There are guys on the roster now that can do what Mixon does, if not better as we've seen in games. Draft some kid with hands that can block in the later rounds or just sign one in FA. It's not that difficult.

 

RB has to be the most overrated position in football. 

[stryker57]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:15 AM, T-Dub said:

RB has to be the most overrated position in football. 

lol  that none of you all could do.  

this isnt a video game where you look at the player stats, and thats what you get.  

everyone wants to cut  players and then get new players with the supposive saved cap money,

who says the next guy will be any better?  

do that too many times  and you end up with dead cap space and having to cut players. just to getunder the cap. 

 

 

[T-Dub]

2 hours ago, stryker57 said:

lol  that none of you all could do.  

this isnt a video game where you look at the player stats, and thats what you get.  

everyone wants to cut  players and then get new players with the supposive saved cap money,

who says the next guy will be any better?  

do that too many times  and you end up with dead cap space and having to cut players. just to getunder the cap. 

 

 

 

 

I've given up less career sacks than Jonah Williams, is it ok if I comment on him?

 

Cutting Mixon would save them millions.  Beyond that and the Uncle Rico stuff I'm not sure what your point was there.

[Le Tigre]

It is a valid question—not just at RB, but anywhere—if not X then who? 
 

Cut-This-Guy-Cut That Guy is a mainstay of pre-FA and Draft erstwhile discussion. As a magic bullet for success, the question yet remains. 

[sparky151]

There are a number of RBs who could give them more than Mixon in 2023 and beyond at a much lower price. For Mixon to justify his contract, he'd need to be a top RB and he no longer is that. He's getting paid similarly to Derrick Henry (who is being shopped by the Titans). Which RB would you rather have?

[MichaelWeston]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

There are a number of RBs who could give them more than Mixon in 2023 and beyond at a much lower price. For Mixon to justify his contract, he'd need to be a top RB and he no longer is that. He's getting paid similarly to Derrick Henry (who is being shopped by the Titans). Which RB would you rather have?

I think Mixon is back at a lower contract. Not sure how that will work out 

[T-Dub]

13 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

I think Mixon is back at a lower contract. Not sure how that will work out 

 

The ol' Redeeming discount?  😏

[stryker57]

19 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

I've given up less career sacks than Jonah Williams, is it ok if I comment on him?

 

Cutting Mixon would save them millions.  Beyond that and the Uncle Rico stuff I'm not sure what your point was there.

comment all you want.   but you have to replace mixon with someone, and to get any decent talent, its going to take millions, thats my point.  this isnt a video game that you get to pick who you want , 31 other teams and agents arent  computer algorithm you can exploit.  

you want talent you gotta pay for it,  or pin your hopes on draft picks ... 

 soP tried  to field a team of dreams on low budget players for decades. how did that work?  

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, stryker57 said:

comment all you want.   but you have to replace mixon with someone, and to get any decent talent, its going to take millions, thats my point.  this isnt a video game that you get to pick who you want , 31 other teams and agents arent  computer algorithm you can exploit.  

you want talent you gotta pay for it,  or pin your hopes on draft picks ... 

 soP tried  to field a team of dreams on low budget players for decades. how did that work?  

 

 

I think you're greatly overvaluing Mixon.  Perine stepped in and looked at least as good - he'll cost them under $2 million of this year's cap.

 

A 3rd round draft pick runs about $1.5 mil over 4 years.

 

Mixon stands to be the 6th highest paid RB (vs salary cap) in 2023.  Does he look anything like the 6th best RB to you?

 

You're right that elite talent will (eventually) cost elite money but Joe ain't that.

 

More to the point, even Derrick Henry would look like.. well, Joe Mixon..  Behind the current OL.

[stryker57]

9 hours ago, T-Dub said:

More to the point, even Derrick Henry would look like.. well, Joe Mixon..  Behind the current OL.

so...  is the problem joe mixon or the ol?

and Perine is a FA so his $$ is going up and we dont have the rights to him so i fully expect his agent to be agreeing with you and  pushing the fact he is just as good as Mixon . 

 

[Shebengal]

2 hours ago, stryker57 said:

so...  is the problem joe mixon or the ol?

and Perine is a FA so his $$ is going up and we dont have the rights to him so i fully expect his agent to be agreeing with you and  pushing the fact he is just as good as Mixon . 

 

I seem to recall last year when we overhauled the OL hearing about how the new OL was going to open up the running game for Joe Mixon and how he would rack up even more yards running the ball than he did in 2021. It didn't happen that way, (partially because he missed some games), BUT we got more out of him in the passing  game. 

 

IMO, job #1 for any OL that we put together needs to be protecting Burrow. Our best skill players are receivers. The running game is important, but any RB that we keep or pick up needs to be able to block, if need be. Perine seems to be better at that than Mixon. The problem is, when Perine goes in, it's almost always going to be a screen pass to him in the backfield, and it is predictable. I don't know that Mixon is worth what he's being paid. Is Perine's agent going to argue that he is worth Mixon money? That remains to be seen. 

[sparky151]

Perine isn't going to demand Mixon or even NFL starter money. He has a good gig going, making a couple mil per year in a part time role that extends his career. 

 

For a starter, we can certainly replace Mixon's production for much less. RB is a young man's position and we should draft a guy in the middle rounds. Tyjae Spears will probably be available at the end of round 3 and he'd be fine. Or Chase Brown, Kendre Miller, etc. 

[|kennethmw|]

On 3/4/2023 at 5:28 PM, T-Dub said:

I'm just gonna say it: 00:01 of June 2nd I'd dump his bum ass. Thoroughly unimpressed.

 

Try again in FA for the short term & hopefully draft someone with long term potential.

 

On 3/5/2023 at 7:18 AM, High School Harry said:

Agree

and at 00:02 June 1 dump Mixon.

 

Not sure if either one of you are aware, but you can cut a player now, with a June 1st designation.  Now, go back to your bitching!!!😂

[stryker57]

ok hold on a sec.   get rid of mixon cause perine can block better but only pay perine couple million and he'll be happy to be here. and then draft a mid round rb to fill in,  i dont know, we might get lucky ,but i see a bunch of hope so's there. 

 

  so what is the exact number if we cut Mixon and dont shove 1/2 to next year with the post june 1st designation, cause really we either take the full hit this year or we shove 1/2 into next year and next year we'll have Burrow and higgins to do , not losing 5 mil to the cap on mixons, post june cut would be nice to have off the books. .  ,

     i'll be honest with you all , i couldnt blame Perine or his agent for asking 4-5 mil a year if they are getting rid of mixon and expect Perine to do his job.

and the more the bengals start playing the cut you on your last year game, the more players are going to want guarantees ,

it is  a dangerous game to start playing. . 

[sparky151]

Why would Perine ask for 5 mil? Nobody is paying that for a backup RB. Perine did a good job as the backup last season but nobody is advocating making him the starter. We just point out that Mixon isn't special and the Bengals shouldn't pay him a huge amount when he can be replaced pretty easily. 

[Le Tigre]

Yeah…anybody can play RB in the NFL. 
 

Like…Derrick Fenner? Michael Basnight? 

[stryker57]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Why would Perine ask for 5 mil? Nobody is paying that for a backup RB. Perine did a good job as the backup last season but nobody is advocating making him the starter. We just point out that Mixon isn't special and the Bengals shouldn't pay him a huge amount when he can be replaced pretty easily. 

ok then, lets chase this right around the tree then,  if you cut mixon, whos gonna be the starter?  

[I_C_Deadpeople]

11 hours ago, stryker57 said:

ok then, lets chase this right around the tree then,  if you cut mixon, whos gonna be the starter?  

I will just say it, because many are thinking it - who cares? RB's are a dime a dozen and we are a passing team. Put the money into the 2 WR's and the O (QB is obvious). After that, free agents, UDFA, draft one, who cares. Our RB's probably need more to be receivers and blockers then runners. Perine wont be worth much as a FA so we can offer him a fair deal and he will likely take it. 

I would rather 'struggle' to find a starting RB than a starting OL. 

Every team has to prioritize. 

 

[sparky151]

16 hours ago, stryker57 said:

ok then, lets chase this right around the tree then,  if you cut mixon, whos gonna be the starter?  

 

Depends on who is available. We should re-sign Perine and probably Williams. The Mixon replacement can be a free agent vet as long as they aren't oo expensive or a rookie if we want a longer term solution. We can likely consider a RB in any round. If we cut Mixon and Bijan Robinson is available at 28, he should get consideration. At 60, Jahmyr Gibbs would be a possible pick. At 92 maybe Charbonnet is still on the board. I think that would be a good place for Tyjae Spears or Chase Brown. In round 4, you might get a Kendre Miller. 

 

All of those guys are faster than Mixon. RB is a position where rookies frequently can make an impact.

[Le Tigre]

7 hours ago, sparky151 said:

. RB is a position where rookies frequently can make an impact.

[spicoli]

You can argue that the Bengals should have never have taken such a fragile player to begin with but Chris Perry was absolutely an impact player when he was on the field. 

[HavePityPlease]

15 minutes ago, spicoli said:

You can argue that the Bengals should have never have taken such a fragile player to begin with but Chris Perry was absolutely an impact player when he was on the field. 

 

While I agree he was likely a little fragile, I don't think we'll ever know if that was induced by the Bengals' "medical" staff at the time which IIRC misdiagnosed his massive sports hernia as "an owie in the tum tum".

 

IMO what Perry can never shake is what we traded down from where Steven Jackson was taken to take Perry instead, which is up there with the worst draft mistakes the Bengals ever made (of which there are plenty, and plenty bad).

[spicoli]

10 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

IMO what Perry can never shake is what we traded down from where Steven Jackson was taken to take Perry instead, which is up there with the worst draft mistakes the Bengals ever made (of which there are plenty, and plenty bad).

Oh I don’t disagree with any of that. The guy was an impact player whenever he was able to get on the field though is all I’m saying. 

[Jamie_B]

I'm mildly entertained by this idea that any RB could just be put back there and we'd be fine. Lets just not invest in the position and go get a Benjarvis Green Eliis type. That dude was pretty mediocre and that sounds like what you guys seem to think will work.

[HavePityPlease]

6 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

I'm mildly entertained by this idea that any RB could just be put back there and we'd be fine. Lets just not invest in the position and go get a Benjarvis Green Eliis type. That dude was pretty mediocre and that sounds like what you guys seem to think will work.

 

I think the point people are making is that a mediocre "bell cow" is fine as long as the player blocks well, catches well, runs hard, and doesn't fumble.  That's what Green-Ellis was for the Pats, but we didn't use him that way - we tried to make him a bell cow and he wasn't good at it.  I think the faulty thinking is that if we have some top-shelf RB we're suddenly going to become a running team (we are NOT).  I know the easy daydream to get into is "wouldn't it be great to have a home run hitter hitting home runs all day" but we're not playing Madden here.  By far the #1 requirement of a Bengals RB now is - blocking and picking up blitzes.  If we can get some incredible blocking RB who is also a top-shelf runner, fine, invest in it.  What I see people arguing for is some high-yardage back which would quite obviously be wasted in our offense.  We need a guy who will punish teams for going small/dime to stop Joe so they stay honest and Joe can continue to pick them apart.