Sam Hubbard retiring

[Hooky]

1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

Class.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

2 hours ago, alleycat said:

Pratt and Stone give us another $10M+ in cap space. Given that caps should go DOWN with Tee and Chase deals, and especially with a potential Burrow restructure, I see no reason we can't go out and get one or two big names. 

No reason why we can't but many reasons why we likely won't

[Jamie_B]

Apparently he was released and decided to retire. 

[tibor75]

Here is hoping the Bengals aren't stupid enough to draft Jack "Corey" Sawyer to replace him.  

[-GoBengals-]

8 hours ago, alleycat said:

Pratt and Stone give us another $10M+ in cap space. Given that caps should go DOWN with Tee and Chase deals, and especially with a potential Burrow restructure, I see no reason we can't go out and get one or two big names. 

 

im not sure they drop stone, i think he slides through, i could see it if they draft a safety in the first or second maybe. Pratt they are hoping for a trade partner, his contract isnt horrible, and if the bengals eat a mil of it, they save a mil on cap hit and the other teams get a vet for 7 mil. can they convince someone to give up a late round pick to grab him or not is the question.

 

8 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

They should build a statue outside the stadium to commemorate the fumble in the jungle. 

lolol. build a statue of a play in an early round playoff game ? not even the most exciting playoff game. that doesnt seem like a worth event.

 

6 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

No reason why we can't but many reasons why we likely won't

 

jesus fucking christ.

 

4 hours ago, tibor75 said:

Here is hoping the Bengals aren't stupid enough to draft Jack "Corey" Sawyer to replace him.  

 

i dont think he fits the ideal candidate for what Golden is trying to do on defense.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

  7 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

No reason why we can't but many reasons why we likely won't

 

jesus fucking christ.

 

 

Hey, until they actually act like a serious franchise I will continue to assume they will operate as they always have. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt. If they lose these guys becuase they wont do the right guarantee amounts then they might as well sell the team. 

[-GoBengals-]

37 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

  7 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

No reason why we can't but many reasons why we likely won't

 

jesus fucking christ.

 

 

Hey, until they actually act like a serious franchise I will continue to assume they will operate as they always have. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt. If they lose these guys becuase they wont do the right guarantee amounts then they might as well sell the team. 

 

 

lmao.

 

all of the teams giving into wild numbers and huge guarantees are cutting those players and restructuring a year later to save themselves from themselves and are constantly firing GMs and coaches anda rent winning a god damn thing.

 

why is that "the right way to do it" somehow?

 

 

[I_C_Deadpeople]

10 hours ago, GoBengals said:

 

 

lmao.

 

all of the teams giving into wild numbers and huge guarantees are cutting those players and restructuring a year later to save themselves from themselves and are constantly firing GMs and coaches anda rent winning a god damn thing.

 

why is that "the right way to do it" somehow?

 

 

Because it was what the market says is 'right'. So if a team decides to not play along they simply will not be able to sign any high level players. The great poobah Tobin himself has said 'there is a template' for a Chase contract. They have had that template sign the JJ signing, now another with the Crosby signing. Yet by all indications, the amount of guaranteed monies is the issue. Play along or get left behind, plain and simple. 

 

Remember when Mikey used to say he liked to honor contracts and liked the players to do the same? Well, a guarantee is honoring the contract from the team perspective. It is simply written instead of verbal.

 

No one can deny that the best teams use every advantage the cap system offers, we do not. That hinders the abaility to build a SB competitive team. Even JB understands the cap system and how other teams go about it, which is why he has stated we have the room and ability to sign the 3 guys plus others. 

 

Think of it this way - if you own a car parts manufacturing company whose emplouyees are part of the United Auto Workers union, you cannot pay $25 per hours when a similar plant with the same union pays $30/hr (ignoring benefits, layoff clauses, etc. for the sake of argument). It is what the market deems as the right method in order to compete. 

 

The team can stand on a soapbox and dismiss large guarantees in contracts until they are blue in the face. It wont matter to Chase or Tee or Trey. Nor will it matter to the next set of players like Mims who will be in the same position. 

 

 

[|High School Harry|]

18 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

Apparently he was released and decided to retire. 

Sort of Bill "Tiger" Johnson and Sam Wyche deja vu all over again in a way?

[-GoBengals-]

15 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Because it was what the market says is 'right'. So if a team decides to not play along they simply will not be able to sign any high level players. The great poobah Tobin himself has said 'there is a template' for a Chase contract. They have had that template sign the JJ signing, now another with the Crosby signing. Yet by all indications, the amount of guaranteed monies is the issue. Play along or get left behind, plain and simple. 

 

Remember when Mikey used to say he liked to honor contracts and liked the players to do the same? Well, a guarantee is honoring the contract from the team perspective. It is simply written instead of verbal.

 

No one can deny that the best teams use every advantage the cap system offers, we do not. That hinders the abaility to build a SB competitive team. Even JB understands the cap system and how other teams go about it, which is why he has stated we have the room and ability to sign the 3 guys plus others. 

 

Think of it this way - if you own a car parts manufacturing company whose emplouyees are part of the United Auto Workers union, you cannot pay $25 per hours when a similar plant with the same union pays $30/hr (ignoring benefits, layoff clauses, etc. for the sake of argument). It is what the market deems as the right method in order to compete. 

 

The team can stand on a soapbox and dismiss large guarantees in contracts until they are blue in the face. It wont matter to Chase or Tee or Trey. Nor will it matter to the next set of players like Mims who will be in the same position. 

 

 

 

thats all very exciting.  the bengals dont fuck players or themselves on deals, there will be players who only care about the headline dollars, which they will never see, and there are teams who only care about locking a player in no matter what, and they are firing another coachand gm and restructuring deals.

 

the cowboys already need to restructure Prescott and Lamb, who they just signed, the browns are, for the third time, restructred Watson, the chargers are dropping Bosa, Davonte adams scammed the raiders out of 28mil a year 5/$140mil deal.. he saw $61 mil of $140 mil and is headed for his 4th team in 5 years... 

 

stop acting like throwing huge money at all good players is just "the perfectly sound right way to do things". its clearly not. now letting every talented player walk isnt either... they gotta find th eright mix, and thats just the gamble of sports.. they could let tee go and Chase tear and achillies, and never be the same and be on the roster for 37mil. no one knows.

 

 

 

 

 

[T-Dub]

22 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

 

 they could let tee go and Chase tear and achillies, and never be the same and be on the roster for 37mil. no one knows.

 

 

 

This is why I can't fault them for being hesitant to offer guaranteed contracts.  Burrow's one thing -  if that happened to him they'd likely be fucked for a few years regardless of the contract.  Not my money anyway and he deserves it more than Pumpkin's grandkids. Anyone else, eh..

 

If Chase could guarantee he's going to play like he did last year for the next 4-5, or even close to it, hell I'd allow for missing half a year in there at some point..  but he can't, so why should a team pay him based on that assumption? I'd offer him considerably more in incentives than I'd be willing to guarantee, because end of the day he can't guarantee his end.  If he continues to play like an MVP he's worth $20M+ per, easy, which will be the new benchmark before his contract ends anyhow.

 

I would hope this argument is not far from what's holding things up with him so far, and others, rather than it being sadly unrealistic lowball offers that a dozen other teams are eager to outbid.  We'll see what happens with Trey.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I think the idea of guaranteeing money in the contract is that it transfers injury risk from the player to the team.  Hence why the Bengals are reluctant to do it.  My take is that they also don’t want to set a precedent for the future and eventually have to put ever larger sums in escrow for future guarantees.  It’s never made much sense to me that they would not guarantee money in the second year of a contract with someone like Chase, either in the form of a roster bonus or guaranteed salary.  The odds of him not being on the team after the first year of the contract are slim and the guaranteed money can be prorated for cap purposes.  It’s a no brainer.  

[Dautcom08]

7 hours ago, GoBengals said:

stop acting like throwing huge money at all good players is just "the perfectly sound right way to do things". its clearly not. now letting every talented player walk isnt either... they gotta find th eright mix, and thats just the gamble of sports.. they could let tee go and Chase tear and achillies, and never be the same and be on the roster for 37mil. no one knows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey now!  The Dolphins do that!  The franchise that Burrow was supposed to spurn the Bengals for!  The franchise that just had to try like hell to get out of an awfully great Christian Kirk deal!

[sparky151]

8 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the idea of guaranteeing money in the contract is that it transfers injury risk from the player to the team.  Hence why the Bengals are reluctant to do it.  My take is that they also don’t want to set a precedent for the future and eventually have to put ever larger sums in escrow for future guarantees.  It’s never made much sense to me that they would not guarantee money in the second year of a contract with someone like Chase, either in the form of a roster bonus or guaranteed salary.  The odds of him not being on the team after the first year of the contract are slim and the guaranteed money can be prorated for cap purposes.  It’s a no brainer.  

 

Teams can insure players vs injury. Bengals did just that with Burrow and got some extra cap space in 2024 for the games he missed in 2023. Cleveland will get $44M in 2026 cap relief assuming Watson misses all of 2025. The insurance payouts are treated as money repaid by the player so they go back on the cap instead of in the owner's pocket. But the premiums are paid off the cap, ie from the owner's pocket. 

[|BlackJesus|]

[I_C_Deadpeople]

11 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the idea of guaranteeing money in the contract is that it transfers injury risk from the player to the team.  Hence why the Bengals are reluctant to do it.  My take is that they also don’t want to set a precedent for the future and eventually have to put ever larger sums in escrow for future guarantees.  It’s never made much sense to me that they would not guarantee money in the second year of a contract with someone like Chase, either in the form of a roster bonus or guaranteed salary.  The odds of him not being on the team after the first year of the contract are slim and the guaranteed money can be prorated for cap purposes.  It’s a no brainer.  

Problem is - the league itself is setting the precedent. Even the LBs signed this week have 59% of their contracts guaranteed. It does not matter that the Bengals don’t want to do this, all other teams are doing it so you play along or you sign no one of value. Plain and simple. 

[Jamie_B]

On 3/7/2025 at 1:26 AM, T-Dub said:

 

This is why I can't fault them for being hesitant to offer guaranteed contracts.  Burrow's one thing -  if that happened to him they'd likely be fucked for a few years regardless of the contract.  Not my money anyway and he deserves it more than Pumpkin's grandkids. Anyone else, eh..

 

If Chase could guarantee he's going to play like he did last year for the next 4-5, or even close to it, hell I'd allow for missing half a year in there at some point..  but he can't, so why should a team pay him based on that assumption? I'd offer him considerably more in incentives than I'd be willing to guarantee, because end of the day he can't guarantee his end.  If he continues to play like an MVP he's worth $20M+ per, easy, which will be the new benchmark before his contract ends anyhow.

 

I would hope this argument is not far from what's holding things up with him so far, and others, rather than it being sadly unrealistic lowball offers that a dozen other teams are eager to outbid.  We'll see what happens with Trey.

 

 

I mean I somewhat understand it, but there is no real good reason not to guarantee it for at least 2 years of the contract. If a guy gets hurt they arent going to cut him unless its career ending, and while they do happen career-ending injuries are rare. If you give him money and he ends up not playing to the level he did before he got the money, your still not going to cut him in one year, you're likely going to give him at least one more year to show it was just a down year. (Perfect example of this is McPherson) 

 

I think they might find some good will with their current guys if they would move off this one year guarantee and move to two years. That extra year is not going to screw them over that much.

[|kennethmw|]

5 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

I mean I somewhat understand it, but there is no real good reason not to guarantee it for at least 2 years of the contract. If a guy gets hurt they arent going to cut him unless its career ending, and while they do happen career-ending injuries are rare. If you give him money and he ends up not playing to the level he did before he got the money, your still not going to cut him in one year, you're likely going to give him at least one more year to show it was just a down year. (Perfect example of this is McPherson) 

 

I think they might find some good will with their current guys if they would move off this one year guarantee and move to two years. That extra year is not going to screw them over that much.

Well said!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[|BlackJesus|]

[-GoBengals-]

On 3/7/2025 at 6:06 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think the idea of guaranteeing money in the contract is that it transfers injury risk from the player to the team.  Hence why the Bengals are reluctant to do it.  My take is that they also don’t want to set a precedent for the future and eventually have to put ever larger sums in escrow for future guarantees.  It’s never made much sense to me that they would not guarantee money in the second year of a contract with someone like Chase, either in the form of a roster bonus or guaranteed salary.  The odds of him not being on the team after the first year of the contract are slim and the guaranteed money can be prorated for cap purposes.  It’s a no brainer.  

 

they no longer have to escrow the funds, roughly the time of the watson deal that ended, as the browns never did it... i think when the revenue share surpassed 150% of the salary cap they stopped that, as every single team is guaranteed the funds to pay out all deals... nothing officially anounced, but a few articles about it.

 

On 3/7/2025 at 6:47 AM, Dautcom08 said:

 

Hey now!  The Dolphins do that!  The franchise that Burrow was supposed to spurn the Bengals for!  The franchise that just had to try like hell to get out of an awfully great Christian Kirk deal!

 

dont worry they locked in the injured concussed Tua..... who a gang of bengals fans wanted instead of burrow.

[IKOTA]

On 3/7/2025 at 6:52 PM, BlackJesus said:

BJ Hill

Trey Hendrickson 

Germaine Pratt

Logan Wilson 

 

Fake news

[|BlackJesus|]

1 hour ago, IKOTA said:

BJ Hill

Trey Hendrickson 

Germaine Pratt

Logan Wilson 

 

Fake news

 

That tweet was written before BJ Hill was re-signed, and after Germaine and Trey asked to be traded (so it was assumed they would leave). 

[LostInDaJungle]

On 3/7/2025 at 1:26 AM, T-Dub said:

If Chase could guarantee he's going to play like he did last year for the next 4-5, or even close to it, hell I'd allow for missing half a year in there at some point..  but he can't, so why should a team pay him based on that assumption? I'd offer him considerably more in incentives than I'd be willing to guarantee, because end of the day he can't guarantee his end.  If he continues to play like an MVP he's worth $20M+ per, easy, which will be the new benchmark before his contract ends anyhow.

I mean, if Chase could prove he's going to play in the pros like he did in college... I'd draft him.

It would be nice to always have sure things. I'd buy that stock if I KNEW that it was going to go up by 25% in 2 months. I'd buy that car if I was sure it would make it to 500K miles with no maintenance.

But if want a sure investment, you get less interest.

If you want a reliable car, you go by brand reputation and pay more upfront.

If you KNOW that Jamarr Chase is going to have a career ending injury on the first play, he isn't even worth $20M a year. If you KNOW he's going to make NFL history every year, then $40M is too little.

The price is set by what other people are willing to pay. If I'm selling a used Toyota, you can tell me all day long that car isn't worth what I'm asking, but I'm looking up and down the block and seeing Celica's sell for that amount. If New England is willing to pay Tee $35M a year, then his worth, by definition, is $35M a year. Why would Tee take $25M a year to stay elsewhere? Why are you going to sell that Celica for $1K less because we don't KNOW that it's going to make it another 300K miles.

What, is Chase supposed to feel grateful that we took the #1 overall pick and ask for less? He has no ties to the Cincy area, and so far he's overplayed what we've been paying him. What does he "owe" the Bengals? Loyalty? The same loyalty they show to him when they ask for a deal with no guarantees? If they're all about honoring contracts, put that shit in writing. 

And why should the player take on all of the risk when they ask him to run a drag route into the linebackers on 3rd and 3? Maybe he should just pull up on that play rather than risk a career ending injury...

This attitude like guys who generate billions of dollars in revenue for rich old white guys should suddenly not care about maximizing their own earnings is nonsense. The idea that they should take on all of the risk of playing a game that simulates being in a car accident every weekend is callous and petty. The notion that they owe ANYTHING to the Brown family, the Bengals, or us fans, is laughably jejune. It's like every guy who wants me to take $1K off that used car because he really IS a nice person. Or the guy who wants me to do work at cost because he's having trouble paying his suppliers.

News flash: None of those people have ever come back to me two years later offering to pay double my rate for work because they're flush now. The guy who asked for the discount on that used car cut me off in traffic yesterday. The "karma" you get promised is slow to come if ever.

If you had a job offer that was 25% over what you make today, would you listen to your boss try to tell you that he'd like you to stay with him for less? "Look Dave, I know we haven't given you a raise in 5 years, and you've been a top performer here at the company, but wouldn't you rather stay here and make 80K a year instead of 100K? You like working with Joe, right? And we're nice folks. Being able to go on vacation is over rated anyway. What, you're telling me you can't live on $80K a year?? Mr. Fancy over here. I manage just fine on my $500K a year. You should be smarter with your money."

If Chase and Higgins should be "satisfied" with taking less Mike and Katie should be able to wrap their head around the same. Do they need to make $100M a year? How much is enough... Because that sword cuts both ways. The people who like to be stingy with the Gatorade and hired a whole two scouts suddenly want a discount because they're committed to winning... Child please.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

Another irony - this team does not to give out guaranteed monies most likely due to the possibility of injuries. Yet, they provide a shite OL very year for the franchise QB whom they are paying a large amount.

[sparky151]

10 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Another irony - this team does not to give out guaranteed monies most likely due to the possibility of injuries. Yet, they provide a shite OL very year for the franchise QB whom they are paying a large amount.

 

More accurately, apart from Burrow, they pay out guarantees in the first year of the contract. Thus they have a lot of first year roster bonuses and that sort of thing. Year 1 roster bonuses basically work like base salary except they get paid in March instead of in installments over the course of the season.