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7 hours ago, SF2 said:

Pitts would be a better choice.  A 6-6 outlet TE/receiver who can block a blitzing corner or beat any linebacker or free safety 10 yards downfield when necessary.  
 

There is a reason Tyrek Hill is open so much, the other team is desperately trying to cover Travis Kelce and failing.  305 receptions in 3 years. 

They help each other. I believe the greater need at the moment is a guy that scares defenses deep. 

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To your list:  If these guys are comparable to Sewell how come none of them even grade out in the first half of the 1st round?  I would dare to venture that Sewell is a consensus Top 5 pick for a reas

Let's also not get confused into accepting that Sewell is the only OL in this draft that can block, OK?

I've been reading all this stuff for the last few weeks. I see all the angles from all the arguments and have changed my mind from one day to the next. I have now landed firmly in the camp of dra

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Just now, Jamie_B said:

 

Will we be maximizing the value at the picks though?

 

 

With this organization and especially the way they lean on Duke Tobin's evaluations, who knows, Jamie? But it doesn't mean there's not going to be capable high ceiling wide receivers available, when we pick in the 2nd, because there will be. 

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1 minute ago, bengaled said:

 

 

With this organization and especially the way they lean on Duke Tobin's evaluations, who knows, Jamie? But it doesn't mean there's not going to be capable high ceiling wide receivers available, when we pick in the 2nd, because there will be. 

 

 

Throw Tobin out the window. Use the various mock drafts and draft write up's if you have to. We both agree that we would like a T and WR in 1 and 2 or vice versa. The question is at 5 and 38 what is the best value for each of those positions? 

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3 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

Throw Tobin out the window. Use the various mock drafts and draft write up's if you have to. We both agree that we would like a T and WR in 1 and 2 or vice versa. The question is at 5 and 38 what is the best value for each of those positions? 

 

 

1. Penei Sewell OLT

 

2. And I am going to give you a list (in order) based off of my preferences of those guys who I think might be available here

 

Dyami Brown

Kadarius Toney

Terrace Marshall Jr

Rashod Bateman

Tylan Wallace

 

These are ALL guys who can play on the outside vs the speedy slot receiver group. This is a huge wide receiver draft and anybody that would tell you otherwise is just blowing smoke up your ass.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

They help each other. I believe the greater need at the moment is a guy that scares defenses deep. 

 

I'm going to point out once again that the question of whether an accomplished deep threat, or an elite TE, or BOTH ON THE SAME TEAM will make you a winner was framed objectively and obviously meaningless if your OL sucks even a little bit.  That was Kansas City in the Super Bowl.  If that's what an elite team with an elite QB, top-shelf deep threat and a HOF TE as well as an elite offensive coaching staff looks like with an OL with half of it made up of backup quality players, what are we going to look like? 

 

Along with that video Jaime posted yesterday, a lot of the arguments I see in favour of picking Chase are within the range of "our OL just needs to be average" to "the value matters for the future".  FFS people JOE BURROW is the future of the Bengals.  His health is all that matters, everything else can be built.  I mean jeezus some people on that podcast were claiming Chase = SUPER BOWL.  Really??  Someone else tried to argue that the deep ball failed last year because nobody could get open??  Did those people even watch the games?  Joe didn't HAVE TIME, people!

 

Please don't mistake this frustration for any kind of specific support of Sewell (I actually want them to trade down and fill more holes while picking the best OL possible after trading down - if that's Sewell, great).  Until we get the OL "right" they should be spending all of their highest-end resources on that problem.  With that said, I will once again state that the Bengals are probably targeting Chase and will probably take him, but when was the last time the Bengals made sound choices in the draft, especially when the position is OL or WR? 

 

Oh right, when they pick second round WRs (Boyd and Higgins) and highest-rated first-round tackles (Williams).  Compare that to high first round WR (Ross) and "eh let's settle for our second choice" OL (Price).

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Why do we have to take a WR in round 2 if we take Sewell in Round 1? Can't we draft someone like Basham? Or Meinerz? It's not like they aren't desperately needed.

I'm on record as saying I don't want a skill position player before round 4 or so and haven't changed my mind yet. Do i expect the Bengals to listen to me? Nope (the bastards). Will I be disappointed on Draft Day? Yup. Will I still root for whoever they draft? Most certainly, cuz I'm a Bengals fan and have massive  brain damage. Heck, I didn't want Higgens last year and look what happened so it's not like I'm an expert.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because Mikey is gonna Mike no matter what. It's fun though watching the back and forth as long as it doesn't get too heated.

Go team Sewell trade back for Slater and picks!!!!

 

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Just now, gupps said:

Why do we have to take a WR in round 2 if we take Sewell in Round 1? Can't we draft someone like Basham? Or Meinerz? It's not like they aren't desperately needed.

I'm on record as saying I don't want a skill position player before round 4 or so and haven't changed my mind yet. Do i expect the Bengals to listen to me? Nope (the bastards). Will I be disappointed on Draft Day? Yup. Will I still root for whoever they draft? Most certainly, cuz I'm a Bengals fan and have massive  brain damage. Heck, I didn't want Higgens last year and look what happened so it's not like I'm an expert.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because Mikey is gonna Mike no matter what. It's fun though watching the back and forth as long as it doesn't get too heated.

Go team Sewell trade back for Slater and picks!!!!

 

Because there is NOTHING in the WR room behind Higgins and Boyd. You cannot seriously be okay with the anchor that is Auden Tate opposite Higgins. He is anti-separation. Same with Mike Thomas. Just, the definition of below average. That's why. WR is gaping yawning chasm of a need. And the team went out of its way NOT to address it in FA. Which means they are looking to the draft. 

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21 minutes ago, bengaled said:

 

 

1. Penei Sewell OLT

 

2. And I am going to give you a list (in order) based off of my preferences of those guys who I think might be available here

 

Dyami Brown

Kadarius Toney

Terrace Marshall Jr

Rashod Bateman

Tylan Wallace

 

These are ALL guys who can play on the outside vs the speedy slot receiver group. This is a huge wide receiver draft and anybody that would tell you otherwise is just blowing smoke up your ass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember a few years ago there was this Defensive Tackle that I was convinced we HAD to take in the 1st round with out pick, I loved his game in college and he reminded me of Warren Sapp. I am not remembering his name but I do remember he ended up being drafted by the Saints and went on to have an average career. We later (not sure if it was in the same draft or if it was a different year) went on to get Geno Atkins.

 

Moral of the story was I was wrong for falling in love with ANY player. It's why I'm firmly in the take the best value camp.

 

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3 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

I'm going to point out once again that the question of whether an accomplished deep threat, or an elite TE, or BOTH ON THE SAME TEAM will make you a winner was framed objectively and obviously meaningless if your OL sucks even a little bit.  That was Kansas City in the Super Bowl.  If that's what an elite team with an elite QB, top-shelf deep threat and a HOF TE as well as an elite offensive coaching staff looks like with an OL with half of it made up of backup quality players, what are we going to look like? 

 

Along with that video Jaime posted yesterday, a lot of the arguments I see in favour of picking Chase are within the range of "our OL just needs to be average" to "the value matters for the future".  FFS people JOE BURROW is the future of the Bengals.  His health is all that matters, everything else can be built.  I mean jeezus some people on that podcast were claiming Chase = SUPER BOWL.  Really??  Someone else tried to argue that the deep ball failed last year because nobody could get open??  Did those people even watch the games?  Joe didn't HAVE TIME, people!

 

Please don't mistake this frustration for any kind of specific support of Sewell (I actually want them to trade down and fill more holes while picking the best OL possible after trading down - if that's Sewell, great).  Until we get the OL "right" they should be spending all of their highest-end resources on that problem.  With that said, I will once again state that the Bengals are probably targeting Chase and will probably take him, but when was the last time the Bengals made sound choices in the draft, especially when the position is OL or WR? 

 

Oh right, when they pick second round WRs (Boyd and Higgins) and highest-rated first-round tackles (Williams).  Compare that to high first round WR (Ross) and "eh let's settle for our second choice" OL (Price).

 

 

Really enjoyed and agreed with a lot of what you had to say! 

 

Another point I would like to add. With all the available offensive lineman there were in free agency, what did we see the organization do? They addressed one tackle spot and despite several obvious holes and a rookie franchise QB being rehabbed, were only willing to invest $7.5M in doing so. There were rumors, supposedly legitimate ones, that they offered Kenny Galladay a one year $13M contact.

 

So what does that tell us...think about it? They have shown time and again they are unwilling to spend adequately on their offensive line, whether that would be in retaining their own free agents or spending on new talent on the market. They absolutely refuse to spend NFL standard money on the guard position, but what's worse they try to skate on the tackle position as well. So how else do we acquire the necessary talent to protect our franchise investment (Joe Burrow), if we aren't willing to use high draft picks in the draft? There's really only two ways you can do this. Seems to me we need to draft Penei Sewell and the decision isn't a difficult one. 

 

Tell me where I am wrong. I am open to opposing viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them on merit.  

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6 minutes ago, membengal said:

Because there is NOTHING in the WR room behind Higgins and Boyd. You cannot seriously be okay with the anchor that is Auden Tate opposite Higgins. He is anti-separation. Same with Mike Thomas. Just, the definition of below average. That's why. WR is gaping yawning chasm of a need. And the team went out of its way NOT to address it in FA. Which means they are looking to the draft. 

 

 

I agree with you. The wide receiver room is halfway full, at best. Both the OL and WR groups need multiple additions in the draft, as well as open eyes on the market after cuts.

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7 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

I remember a few years ago there was this Defensive Tackle that I was convinced we HAD to take in the 1st round with out pick, I loved his game in college and he reminded me of Warren Sapp. I am not remembering his name but I do remember he ended up being drafted by the Saints and went on to have an average career. We later (not sure if it was in the same draft or if it was a different year) went on to get Geno Atkins.

 

Moral of the story was I was wrong for falling in love with ANY player. It's why I'm firmly in the take the best value camp.

 

 

 

Sheldon Rankins, and we looked into acquiring him this year, too. I'm not sure where he ended up.

 

The scenario I displayed is my best version of BPA, while addressing the need concerns of the team along with that. They failed to do the necessary work needed in FA and forced that upon us.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, bengaled said:

 

 

I agree with you. The wide receiver room is halfway full, at best. Both the OL and WR groups need multiple additions in the draft, as well as open eyes on the market after cuts.

Chase and Pitts would be the average fan favorites..

People come to see them make plays..

I understand..

I dont think many would come to watch Sewell block..

Its a debate that will go on until draft day unless a trade were to happen..

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7 minutes ago, bengaled said:

 

 

Sheldon Rankins, and we looked into acquiring him this year, too. I'm not sure where he ended up.

 

The scenario I displayed is my best version of BPA, while addressing the need concerns of the team along with that. They failed to do the necessary work needed in FA and forced that upon us.

 

 

 

 

No it wasn't Rankins. 

 

Noooo wait I got this wrong, he was drafted by the Lions and ended up with the Saints after his rookie contract. He played next to Sue.

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Nick Fairley

 

I thought we couldnt go wrong with him. He only ended up being slightly above average and I was apparently also wrong, I forgot he signed a 1 year with the Rams. 

As I recall we did trying to bring him in after his stint with the Lions.

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Just now, claptonrocks said:

Did my first PFF simulator draft..

1....T Sewell 

2...DE Greg Rousseau

3....WR Dynami Brown

4....DT...Milton Williams.

 

Just now, claptonrocks said:

Goy my franchise bodyguard

An edge rusher..receiver and another dlineman

 

Highly doubt thats possible but I would take it if it were to occur..

 

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3 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

 

 

 

That would be a killer draft, but your instincts about it are likely correct. Dyami, for one, must have jet-packs in his backside, with the way he's rising. 

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14 minutes ago, bengaled said:

 

That would be a killer draft, but your instincts about it are likely correct. Dyami, for one, must have jet-packs in his backside, with the way he's rising. 

Too bad...hope he falls to us...

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Every draft or most have wild card kind of players who could get picked high and throw a rusty pail in the well so to speak. This year , it seems like Mac Jones, Lance and Pitts are those types - especially Jones - could go too 5 or not in top 20

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1 hour ago, bengaled said:

 

 

Really enjoyed and agreed with a lot of what you had to say! 

 

Another point I would like to add. With all the available offensive lineman there were in free agency, what did we see the organization do? They addressed one tackle spot and despite several obvious holes and a rookie franchise QB being rehabbed, were only willing to invest $7.5M in doing so. There were rumors, supposedly legitimate ones, that they offered Kenny Galladay a one year $13M contact.

 

So what does that tell us...think about it? They have shown time and again they are unwilling to spend adequately on their offensive line, whether that would be in retaining their own free agents or spending on new talent on the market. They absolutely refuse to spend NFL standard money on the guard position, but what's worse they try to skate on the tackle position as well. So how else do we acquire the necessary talent to protect our franchise investment (Joe Burrow), if we aren't willing to use high draft picks in the draft? There's really only two ways you can do this. Seems to me we need to draft Penei Sewell and the decision isn't a difficult one. 

 

Tell me where I am wrong. I am open to opposing viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them on merit.  

History has shown that it is far more difficult to get an elite LT outside round 1 then it is to get an elite WR

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1 hour ago, gupps said:

Why do we have to take a WR in round 2 if we take Sewell in Round 1? Can't we draft someone like Basham? Or Meinerz? It's not like they aren't desperately needed.

I'm on record as saying I don't want a skill position player before round 4 or so and haven't changed my mind yet. Do i expect the Bengals to listen to me? Nope (the bastards). Will I be disappointed on Draft Day? Yup. Will I still root for whoever they draft? Most certainly, cuz I'm a Bengals fan and have massive  brain damage. Heck, I didn't want Higgens last year and look what happened so it's not like I'm an expert.

Of course, all of this is irrelevant because Mikey is gonna Mike no matter what. It's fun though watching the back and forth as long as it doesn't get too heated.

Go team Sewell trade back for Slater and picks!!!!

 


This is probably the closest to my thinking of the prevailing opinions. I’d still take Sewell but, I wouldn’t take a WR until at least the 3rd round and probably the 4th.

 

Aside from the glaring holes on the offensive line, many are also forgetting we had the worst pass rush in the league.

 

We can’t protect our QB or get to the other team’s QB. Massive issue.

 

These are my priorities. I’ve said it many times, I wish they were better addressed in free agency but neither really were.

 

Bottom line is that the holes and deficiencies are many and this team is still going to be pretty weak going into the season no matter who “gets their way” in the draft.

 

I can only hope the remaining cap space can add some offensive line and WR depth along with extending Bates.

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

They help each other. I believe the greater need at the moment is a guy that scares defenses deep. 

 

Agree 100%, we need an OL so pass catchers can make it more than 20 yards downfield before the QB gets hit.

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I’m really hoping we’re in a position to trade down. If we can just move back 3 spots we still may very well get to choose between Sewell and Slater and grab a bunch of future capital at the same time. 
Put me on the record as 100% in favor of trading back a few spots and still getting your highest rated OL. No idea if that plays out or not but that’s definitely what I want to see happen. 

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https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-com-media-mock-draft-we-have-a-trade

 

From Bengals.com.  Ge-off's mock with a trade... I must say I find it very interesting.

Trade #5 with Carolina for #8 and 39.

First Round for us goes...

 

1. JAGUARS - QB Trevor Lawrence, Clemson; Michael DiRocco, ESPN.com

And the QB run begins.

2. JETS - QB Zach Wilson, BYU; Rich Cimini, ESPN.com

All indications are this is the way it is headed. The 49ers trade seemed to confirm the Jets aren't budging.

3. 49ERS - QB Mac Jones, Alabama; Matt Maiocco, NBC Sports Bay Area

 

After the big trade, head coach Kyle Shanahan gets the kind of pocket passer he covets.

4. FALCONS - QB Justin Fields, Ohio State; D. Orlando Ledbetter, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

They hold the key in this draft. They could take any of the top five prospects or trade it.

5. PANTHERS (via Cincinnati) - QB Trey Lance, North Dakota State; Joe Person, The Athletic

The Bengals take advantage of the Panthers faced with the inability to wait for Teddy Bridgewater's successor in a furious wave of QBs.

 

6. DOLPHINS - WR Ja'Marr Chase, LSU; Armando Salguero, The Miami Herald

You can't say anymore that the Dolphins don't have any weapons.

7. LIONS – OT Penei Sewell, Oregon; Mike O'Hara, Detroitlions.com

This is one time when a team can honestly say they never thought he'd be there.

 

8. BENGALS (via Carolina) – TE Kyle Pitts, Florida; Geoff Hobson, Bengals.com

Hey, there's the off chance Sewell or Chase could have slipped through.

OK. OK. We remember. Last week we said Pitts scared us because rarely do tight ends drafted this high justify the value of the pick. Plus, this doesn't really address the neediest of the needs.

But now because of the trade we've got another high second-round pick and Lord knows what else if this is a real deal. And taking Pitts behind Chase or Sewell instead of in front of them doesn't seem as risky. If they're using him as basically a third receiver, then he does meet a need.

And, if Pitts is half as good as they say he is, he and Joe Burrow should be able to make beautiful music together if he can't jam with Chase. 

Not only that, Pitts is the best player on the board at this point as well as the last remaining elite prospect.

 

38. BENGALS _ DE Jayson Oweh, Penn State; Geoff Hobson, Bengals.com

A 6-5, 257-pound diamond in the rough? Or a gem waiting to shine? Workout wonder or ascending star? Depends who you ask.

But Pro Football Focus has him 23rd on their big board, NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah ranks him 31st and The Sporting News has him at No. 34, a spot ahead of Phillips, the first Edge taken in this draft. So if you're looking for an Edge guy, and you have to feel the Bengals are with the fewest sacks in the league since 2017, here's a guy with the ratings.

Some cyberspace scouts are turned off by his thin football background (he didn't start playing until he was a high school junior), he played only 20 college games and he didn't have a sack last season in Penn State's truncated seven-game schedule.

Yet PFF gave him high grades against the run this year and there's no questioning his off-the-charts gifts. He blew everyone away at his pro day with a sub 4.4 40, unheard of on the Edge, along with a 39.5-inch vertical.

 

They say his speed makes him a bear against the option and he's got a knack for chasing down backs. With a 4.3 40, you can chase down anything. You can picture that coming in handy against Lamar and friends.

PFF says Oweh's NFL comp is Washington Edge Montez Sweat, the 26th pick in the 2019 draft. Sweat had seven sacks as a rookie and nine last season. Those numbers would be a nice comp, too.

39. BENGALS (via Carolina) - OT Dillon Radunz, North Dakota State; Geoff Hobson, Bengals.com

Radunz's club played just one game in 2020 and Jeremiah rated him 47th on his board. But CBS Sports has him at No. 32 and PFF puts him at No. 28 as the draft's fifth best tackle.

 

He quickly shrugged off the small school label when he was the consensus top-graded offensive lineman at the Senior Bowl, where he overcame the rust and was named the practice player of the week. At 6-5, 304 pounds, Radunz is on the smallish side for tackle, but the cyber scouts say he was strong enough to stop the explosiveness on the Senior Bowl edge.

He's got the position versatility the Bengals crave and while he sees himself as left tackle (he played 32 straight games there and North Dakota won them all while allowing Lance to shoot into the draft's top ten), he's being projected as a guy that can play up and down the line as a guard or a tackle. Word is he plays with a mean streak and has an excellent aptitude for the game.

Radunz is prepping for the draft much like Bengals left tackle Jonah Williams prepared for last season when he spent time in California working with former 49ers tackle Joe Staley.

So there it is. On paper in the top 39, we've added a generational tight end for a generational quarterback, a rising, gifted pass rusher that can chase down the AFC North's dangerous runners and a versatile, smart, athletic offensive lineman.

:::::::::::::::::

Personally, I might take back to back O linemen here depending on who is there.

But an interesting thought...

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2 minutes ago, High School Harry said:

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-com-media-mock-draft-we-have-a-trade

 

From Bengals.com.  Ge-off's mock with a trade... I must say I find it very interesting.

Trade #5 with Carolina for #8 and 39.

First Round for us goes...

 

 

 

I like the idea of trading back but out of 3 picks in the first two rounds and our only OL pick is taking a flyer on the annual "Senior Bowl Hero"?  Nah.  I like taking a flyer on a guy like that but only after you've taken an actual solid pick at the position first (or if you already have the position established and it's a later pick).  In that scenario I'd hope they'd pick Slater and keep the rest the same.

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If they take Sewell at 5 I’m gonna say they’d take someone like Pat Freiermuth in the second rather than a WR. Huge target. Just a hunch. 

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